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On March 27 2011 09:21 cheesemaster wrote:
I agree it was quite unproffesional casters should set aside their biases at least until after the match is over and just cast the game as is, i love chill as a commentator and he did fine in the other games he casted last weekend but today seemed like overkill.
you know, by calling the casters (and tl.net by proxy) "unprofessional" you are insulting them for using their free time to entertain you at no cost to you. people should give a little more respect to the people who created this website and offer content at no cost. you can state your opinions on what you like and dont like, but mud flinging is really not necessary. what exactly have you provided to the community?
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On March 27 2011 09:23 phoney wrote:
The Koreans start playing their matches at 3.00AM or later so I'm wondering if that would have make any sort of difference to their game-play.
It was casted from replays.
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I have mixed feelings on this issue. On the one hand, the evidence backing a skill gap between Koreans and others is flimsy in SC2 compared to in BW, making the entire discourse less grounded. On the other hand, the discourse definitely exists, in part because of the fact that it is a point of contention rather than commonly accepted knowledge. Ultimately, it is up to the commentator and his audience to project and accept the perpetuation of that discourse.
I personally find the skill gap narrative less relevant to my viewing experience than, say, a narrative on the role of reapers in lategame TvP, but I'm sure other viewers may be interested in hearing about that, and commentators have the right to feel that the skill gap must be spoken to.
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On March 27 2011 09:24 Rokk wrote:
I don't understand how this is unprofessional. One of the biggest draws of the TSL3 is that it's the best Korean players against the best foreigners. How is pointing this out during your casts unprofessional?
But most of these guys that were knocked out are not performing well in TSL or performing well in GSL recently.
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On March 27 2011 08:48 intergalactic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:33 HolyArrow wrote:On March 27 2011 08:27 intergalactic wrote:
You know what's annoying? People who should cheer for their foreigner-kin, since they don't have many opportunities to do so, and instead, find every and any possible excuse as to why koreans shouldn't have lost and foreigners are undeserving. What the hell man, for once the koreans aren't DOMINATING everyone else, and people actually talk about lag and such? I feel like it was Chill's responsability to point out how much the foreigners are doing well against koreans for once.
I mean, even the koreans are being mannered, and so far, they are saying they underestimated the foreigners etc. I don't know about you, but it feels slightly dirty when the conditions were as they were. It's like if you had a boxing champion who usually owns it up all the time, and some underdog who usually loses to the champion. One day they have a showmatch, but the champion is sick or something and loses. Then all the fans of the underdog praise him when he wins, saying, "Oh wow, he did so well against the champion!" Doesn't that feel wrong? It sure does to me. I know for sure that when I'm playing something competitively and I win under unfair conditions and everyone blindly compliments me, I feel a bit dirty and kind of annoyed at the shortsightedness of people. For instance, back when I played badminton competitively, I beat one of the best players on my team even though she was kind of sick and had a wrist injury. People were like, "Wow dude you're so good!" and were talking about how much better player I had become, but I knew that I only won because of the unfair conditions, and I felt pretty annoyed at all the people simply jumping to conclusions without looking at the situation objectively. That's just how I am, and I'm pretty sure that people with a similar mentality to mine see this situation in a similar light. What? Are you referring to lag? You are comparing two extremely different situations and rationalizing subjectively. 1- Two people competing in a sport, one of them is sick and the other wins. 2- Two people playing online game, one of them has 0.3 sec delay more than the other. They were alternating servers so the delay advantage is split. The underdogs wins with convincing 2-0 macro games, where micro wasn't a deciding factor. How is this even comparable? Why do you feel you need to defend the koreans' disadvantage, when even they don't feel the need to defend themselves?
People need to stop saying they were alternating servers, for the games between EU and KR (aka all the games today cept for ret naniwa) they are all played on the NA server and the latency is pretty much fine for NA EU and as someone pointed out almost 3 times worse ping wise for KR NA so there is quite a huge difference and there was no alternating servers.
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Mate, there were roughly 50k people watching the games today. And the amount of people complaining about the cast can be count on one hand...
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I don't think the casters are biased.
What Chill implies by saying that the foreigners are "catching up" is that the koreans are better. He's not embarrassing the koreans in any way. He's acknowledging the fact that they are good and very skillful.
I also agree with Holy Arrow. It would be better if Chill and Husky would acknowledge that there is lag. In key situations, if there is lag, and the casters dismiss it, to the community, it would show that the casters aren't knowledgeable enough to recognize it.
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On March 27 2011 09:26 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 09:24 Rokk wrote:
I don't understand how this is unprofessional. One of the biggest draws of the TSL3 is that it's the best Korean players against the best foreigners. How is pointing this out during your casts unprofessional? But most of these guys that were knocked out are not performing well in TSL or performing well in GSL recently.
Well, the same thing can be said about the foreigners as well. The guys that won haven't really dominated the gsl lately ;-)
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On March 27 2011 09:28 ore0z wrote:
I don't think the casters are biased.
What Chill implies by saying that the foreigners are "catching up" is that the koreans are better. He's not embarrassing the koreans in any way. He's acknowledging the fact that they are good and very skillful.
I also agree with Holy Arrow. It would be better if Chill and Husky would acknowledge that there is lag. In key situations, if there is lag, and the casters dismiss it, to the community, it would show that the casters aren't knowledgeable enough to recognize it.
the only problem with focusing on the lag is that (1) they dont know what actual lag occurred and how it affected the play (although im sure it exists), and (2) why focus on negative things in a cast? its well known that there are lag issues. further, by focusing on lag you greatly diminish the foreigners' win, which would cause fifteen additional threads like this on tl.net
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On March 27 2011 09:04 Nayl wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 09:01 dAPhREAk wrote:
what is wrong with the casters creating a rivalry between koreans and foreigners? it makes it more enjoyable and intense even though the players themselves may not think of it as a rivalry. its not like they were completely biased in favor of foreigners. a lot of korean players are hyped a lot and people want to see them play. also, there is a korean stream for TSL. are you saying that they shouldn't hype for korean players? seems a little ridiculous to me. just reporting whats happening on the stream is kinda boring. hype the players, create some rivalries and make the streams entertaining. Because it makes Korean viewers irritated when watching TSL. (as well as people like OP) It's not just watched by people in NA/EU.
If I recall, Koreans have a dedicated caster(Gisado?) for this TSL. I suppose Koreans could tune in to the English stream as well.
Personally, it's not so much the cast but the reaction from the TL community. Koreans playing with a latency disadvantage(to what extent is debatable but a disadvantage none the less) in 1 BO3. All of the sudden foreigners are at parity with Koreans? I have no problem if this comes to pass but the results of today's games seem 'impure'.
TSL is entertaining but I don't hold it as a legitimate measure of skill between 2 people. Will have to wait for more LAN events before coming to any conclusions.
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On March 27 2011 09:23 phoney wrote:
The Koreans start playing their matches at 3.00AM or later so I'm wondering if that would have make any sort of difference to their game-play.
The matches arent live they are casted from replays.
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hmm...
I'm impressed by whole TSL3 so far. 
Games are just mind blowing. Casters are doing FINE job. I hope you do understand that if you want to entertain others you HAVE to use a joke or two. Being so sensitive and intolerant is not good on the internet or real life.
If anything we should give a big applause to whole TL staff for organising such awesome tournament.
gj TL!
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Anyone new to the SC scene wouldn't understand why Chill was so excited about foreigners being on par with Koreans. Thats why most people who are agreeing with the OP joined when SC2 came out.
Casting today was fantastic and to the people saying they should point out the lag in the game, please stop being retarded.
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On March 27 2011 09:24 silentsaint wrote:
It's pretty much like that in every sport if the underdog is winning.
Just imagine the first time that Japan did not win the gold medal in judo.
It was a really big deal and pretty much the closing of the skill gap was the main topic that followed the poor winner the next months.
This is exactly what other sports does NOT have. Commentators do what they are supposed to do, commentate the game and what is happening. Leave the hype to pre-shows and discussions after of before the game.
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On March 27 2011 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 09:21 cheesemaster wrote:
I agree it was quite unproffesional casters should set aside their biases at least until after the match is over and just cast the game as is, i love chill as a commentator and he did fine in the other games he casted last weekend but today seemed like overkill. you know, by calling the casters (and tl.net by proxy) "unprofessional" you are insulting them for using their free time to entertain you at no cost to you. people should give a little more respect to the people who created this website and offer content at no cost. you can state your opinions on what you like and dont like, but mud flinging is really not necessary. what exactly have you provided to the community?
He is not offending TL or Chill for that matter. He is stating his opinion in a thread so that we may have an open discussion.
You sir, are not contributing in any way way, shape or form to this thread.
Keep to the topic.
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There was nothing wrong with the commentary.
The skill gap seemed to dissapear after an hour of Chill talking exclusively about how the foreigners are finally almost, if not as good as the koreans. Every single move, every single engagement, every single match and the reflections made based on the outcome was focuced on the korean players nationality.
Obviously, we watched different channels... Your description is not only ridiculously exaggerated but you also fail to realize how huge the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans in bw was - the reason why casters even mention nationalities during casting. Thus it's completely understandable that after every game the commentators will address the fact that a foreigner had a nice performance against a Korean.
In addition, the talk about "Koreans vs foreigners" is not that much about nationality, as it is about the fact that on the one side there is a player that lives in a team house with a sc2 couch, practices 10 hours a day and does absolutely nothing else in contrast to the player on the other side who leads a "normal" life and for whom sc2 is just a passion.
The games today are not a proof that foreigners are as good as Koreans, but they still show that foreigners can stand on a somewhat equal footing with Koreans.
I can imagine that lag might have been beneficial for the foreigners, but i cannot be sure, and neither can the other people in this thread. Not to mention that if the casters were speculating/talking about lag it would have been extremely unprofessional.
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On March 27 2011 09:31 fds wrote:hmm... I'm impressed by whole TSL3 so far. Games are just mind blowing. Casters are doing FINE job. I hope you do understand that if you want to entertain others you HAVE to use a joke or two. Being so sensitive and intolerant is not good on the internet or real life. If anything we should give a big applause to whole TL staff for organising such awesome tournament. gj TL!
I gave them props in my post. For the fifth time, you can have hype and all that, but to some extend. Stop. I am not sensitive at all. This is an issue I feel needs to be adressed. I am not by any means emotionally involved or offended by the cast.
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On March 27 2011 09:49 zJayy962 wrote:
Anyone new to the SC scene wouldn't understand why Chill was so excited about foreigners being on par with Koreans. Thats why most people who are agreeing with the OP joined when SC2 came out.
Casting today was fantastic and to the people saying they should point out the lag in the game, please stop being retarded.
How long you, or Chill for that matter have been playing SC is irrelevevant, I do not care. Turning the cast into a huge story about how the gap had more or less dissapeared and thus not commentating the game as a objective caster, is wrong.
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I think you need to Chill out.
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On March 27 2011 09:56 ggrrg wrote:There was nothing wrong with the commentary. Show nested quote +
The skill gap seemed to dissapear after an hour of Chill talking exclusively about how the foreigners are finally almost, if not as good as the koreans. Every single move, every single engagement, every single match and the reflections made based on the outcome was focuced on the korean players nationality.
Obviously, we watched different channels... Your description is not only ridiculously exaggerated but you also fail to realize how huge the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans in bw was - the reason why casters even mention nationalities during casting. Thus it's completely understandable that after every game the commentators will address the fact that a foreigner had a nice performance against a Korean. In addition, the talk about "Koreans vs foreigners" is not that much about nationality, as it is about the fact that on the one side there is a player that lives in a team house with a sc2 couch, practices 10 hours a day and does absolutely nothing else in contrast to the player on the other side who leads a "normal" life and for whom sc2 is just a passion. The games today are not a proof that foreigners are as good as Koreans, but they still show that foreigners can stand on a somewhat equal footing with Koreans. I can imagine that lag might have been beneficial for the foreigners, but i cannot be sure, and neither can the other people in this thread. Not to mention that if the casters were speculating/talking about lag it would have been extremely unprofessional.
This is not BW. I do not care how long you have been watching SC:BW or how emotionally attached you are to the struggle foreigners have had vs koreans. This is SC2, it is to proffesional players that are to be treated objectively by a commentator.
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EPT
