|
Tonight I watched TSL3, as most of the people that will read this post did.
I was especially looking forward to tonights' games beacuse Chill, a commentator I love was going to commentate. He is not afraid to say his opinion about players and their playstyle, and he gives credit where credit is due.
Also, the matches. Three of the finest koreans(mvp, genius and nestea) was facing three of the finest foreigners.
Now I was cheering for the koreans, as I always do, and having watched most of the "koreans vs. foreigners" tournaments since beta, I did expect alot of conclusion being made as far as the legendairy "skill gap" goes, but boy was I suprised.
Without making any statements about the situation in the BW seen vs. the current SC2 scene, I know that the gap in BW has always been huge and that now with SC2 being a fairly new game, foreigners are doing pretty well.
I also understand and have to agree with people getting excited and emotional when foreigners happens to take matches of koreans, but what I watched tonight(TSL3), took this to a new level.
The skill gap seemed to dissapear after an hour of Chill talking exclusively about how the foreigners are finally almost, if not as good as the koreans. Every single move, every single engagement, every single match and the reflections made based on the outcome was focuced on the korean players nationality.
It was so obvious and eventually took over almost all the commentating, from Chills side that is and ended up coming off a little unproffesional for me.
Husky was somewhat keeping his cool and commentating the games and Chill was still doing awesome analyzis and all, but at one points nothing could go by without something being said about the "korea vs. the rest" topic.
I mean arn`t commentators meant to cast the game between to proffesional players that is undeniably extremely skilled at a game and to some extend put aside their nationality/background?
If we look at a couple of statements I presume is correct:
- The foreigners probably practiced harder than ever before
- The foreigners has so much info to work with concerning the koreans playstyle
- Without knowing too much about their preperation, I do not think the koreans prepared alot specifically for this tournament
Now, the foreigners played great do not get me wrong and so did the koreans, but there were no mercy for the koreans what so ever and the commentators, especially Chill made huge assumptions after every single engagement and/or match concerning the skill gap betweem the scenes being crushed.
IdrA, Jinro, MorroW has lost games to way lesser players countless of times, yet we don`t jump yo conclusions about the lesser player catching up skill-wise, beacuse let`s face it; anyone can have a bad day or get unlucky positions, die to a suprising timing-push or something similar.
What I`m trying to say here is that tonight, without trying to target Chill in any negative way concerning his casting or him in genereal, he made me feel like I was watching a series of games where the main focuse was to emberass the koreans.
This may seem abit too harsh, but I found it quite unproffesional actually to make the conclusion(s) Chill did.
Now I love Chill and that may be the reason why I am abit dissapointed in tonights commentating. He commentated extremely well, but the koreans vs. foreigners thing was abit too much.
Just commentate the game as what it is, a game between to proffesional players that represents themselves as players and should be treated as such when being commentated.
Loving TSL3 so far, but would appreciate future casters to maybe tone the war between scenes abit down^^
This goes for alot of other tournaments and casters ofc. The TSL3 tonight was just the example of my choice. No offence intended to Chill or the TSL tournament in general. Keep up the good work!
cheers for reading.
EDIT: I am in no way offended by the commentating. It simply took a huge bite out of what should have been proffesional commentating of the games.
It made it sound unproffesional to me.
|
The TL official twitter was kinda annoying as well...
|
I watched all the matches and didn't get that impression, but the games were really interesting so maybe I wasn't paying full attention
|
On March 27 2011 08:06 duck.fit wrote:
I watched all the matches and didn't get that impression, but the games were really interesting so maybe I wasn't paying full attention
They said something along the lines of "foreigners really showing they can compete with the koreans now" every 5 minutes or so. Doesn't really bother me as I know it's false but whatever.
|
There was a bit of it, but not excessive in any way I think.
|
Personally I really enjoy biased commentary, even if the commentators are rooting against the player I want to win. The cast is done with way more excitement and enthusiasm, even when the game is at a stand still and theres no action.
|
On March 27 2011 08:07 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:06 duck.fit wrote:
I watched all the matches and didn't get that impression, but the games were really interesting so maybe I wasn't paying full attention They said something along the lines of "foreigners really showing they can compete with the koreans now" every 5 minutes or so. Doesn't really bother me as I know it's false but whatever.
Theres enough evidence now showing that foreigners CAN and DO compete with the top koreans. The skill gap just isn't that big.
|
There was none, people are just nit picking at everything the commentators say. Since the foreginers are underdogs obviously the commentators are gonna make a big deal out of it when they win.
Blaming it on bias is just silly.
|
Agreed, it sounded like I was watching a WWE match and the Koreans were the jobbers.
|
I agree with OP. Chill, and, to a lesser extent, Husky both came off as kind of taking advantage of the Korean players's lag issues to praise foreigner play and make them sound as if they actually beat a top Korean pro in a fair environment. Chill and Husky aren't stupid; anyone who's casted as many games as them know what good stutter step micro looks like. They know that any competent player, let alone a GSL Champion, wouldn't let a Reaper or Marine get surrounded and killed by probes that early in the game. And they kept saying stuff like "Oh, and looks like Nestea is going to just waste all his roaches", as if lag didn't slow down the retreat a bit at all. It was really annoying to see absolutely no acknowledgment from the casters.
Oh, and before anyone quotes me saying, "What do you expect the casters to do? Just make lag the big issue throughout the game and take away from foreigner accomplishments?"
No. I just expected the casters to at least say something like, "And wow, it looks like MVP's stimmed marauder kiting is being affected pretty badly by lag..."
It was simply a very painful elephant in the room that none of the casters even mentioned. In fact, they kept trying to make the viewers think that, since the games are on the NA server, that the playing field is even, which came off as either dirty or at least uninformed.
|
So do other casters, especially Day9 and Husky. I always root for foreigners to win, but castings are so biased, misleading, and so unprofessional that reminds me of watching Fox News. For example, when MVP decided not to engage (which is a tactical thing in pro games) and pulled his army back, Husky was like: "MVP is so freaking scared that he's stimming his army as fast as possible back to his own base". Also, reports on supply were so wrong.
|
I would argue that the Korean's who played today played poorly. They lost early scouts, they needlessly sacrificed armies, and just seemed to be going through the motions.
I don't know if this is due to unfamiliarity with the players, or whether it was because they either overestimated their own skill or underestimated their opponant's skill. All I have to say is that MC better be prepared for White-Ra.
|
I don't know, I always love unprofessionalism in these kind of things, one of the reasons I think PsY is an awesome caster, he lacks any notion of professionalism. He just speaks his mind without thinking of what he's expected to say. It's all so much more... gonzo.
|
I've seen just as many comments, if not more, about how IEM showed that koreans are superior as I've seen about how TSL is showing that koreans are not superior so personally I don't really care if the commentators puts a lot of emphasis on the koreans vs foreigners thing. Though I must say I really didn't find it that prominent in the cast.
|
On March 27 2011 08:11 HolyArrow wrote:
I agree with OP. Chill, and, to a lesser extent, Husky both came off as kind of taking advantage of the Korean players's lag issues to praise foreigner play and make them sound as if they actually beat a top Korean pro in a fair environment. Chill and Husky aren't stupid; anyone who's casted as many games as them know what good stutter step micro looks like. They know that any competent player, let alone a GSL Champion, wouldn't let a Reaper or Marine get surrounded and killed by probes that early in the game. And they kept saying stuff like "Oh, and looks like Nestea is going to just waste all his roaches", as if lag didn't slow down the retreat a bit at all. It was really annoying to see absolutely no acknowledgment from the casters.
Oh, and before anyone quotes me saying, "What do you expect the casters to do? Just make lag the big issue throughout the game and take away from foreigner accomplishments?"
No. I just expected the casters to at least say something like, "And wow, it looks like MVP's stimmed marauder kiting is being affected pretty badly by lag..."
It was simply a very painful elephant in the room that none of the casters even mentioned. In fact, they kept trying to make the viewers think that, since the games are on the NA server, that the playing field is even, which came off as either dirty or at least uninformed.
You wanted to have the commentators point when lag was affecting the game? So what, whenever a korean made a mistake the commentators should say "well looks like the lag is getting bad now".
Not only would that totally ruin the experience, it would be impossible for them to know when there is lag and when there isnt.
I'm speechless.
|
3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
i can see why the OP is disappointed w/ the commentary if what he described was not an exaggeration. i was unable to tune in and will watch the vods to make my own personal judgement.
personally, i believe the top players from the korean scene would absolutely dominate top foreigners if they prepared specifically and seriously. i guess we'll have to wait until the world league to see who's right about the supposed disparity in skill
|
On March 27 2011 08:11 HolyArrow wrote:
I agree with OP. Chill, and, to a lesser extent, Husky both came off as kind of taking advantage of the Korean players's lag issues to praise foreigner play and make them sound as if they actually beat a top Korean pro in a fair environment. Chill and Husky aren't stupid; anyone who's casted as many games as them know what good stutter step micro looks like. They know that any competent player, let alone a GSL Champion, wouldn't let a Reaper or Marine get surrounded and killed by probes that early in the game. And they kept saying stuff like "Oh, and looks like Nestea is going to just waste all his roaches", as if lag didn't slow down the retreat a bit at all. It was really annoying to see absolutely no acknowledgment from the casters.
You expect them to talk about how lag might be affecting the game in their own tournament? I'm sorry but that's shooting themselves in the foot.
|
American Tourney with American casters... What do you expect... On a similar note, did you happen to watch the British commentary of the USA v England World Cup matches last summer... THAT my friend was bias.
|
Why is there always 5-6 topics after every TSL/GSL about something that is "wrong?"
Why do we always get stuff like this:
"Forcefields, biggest problem in PvZ?"
"SC2 will die unless Stim is fixed?"
"Chill, trying to start a all out war between Foreigners vs Koreans?"
"Mech, wrong way to play the game?"
"Day9 coughed during casting, death of E-Sports?"
"Top 10 reasons why SOTG will destroy SC2 and TL.net"
etc etc
All these topics seem to me to be trying to create drama out of thin air, is it sophisticated trolling or just people nitpicking at everything?
|
If you didn't follow competitive Broodwar, you wouldn't have the complete context in mind when watching the TSL. In BW, the skill gap between Koreans and foreigners was insurmountable. The best foreigners were worse than Korean b team players. This is where the hype of Koreans vs world comes from. Finally we, old school BW watchers/players, are seeing foreigners in SC2 legitimately competing against Koreans. Maybe our mindset is outdated, but the feeling of seeing top Koreans getting eliminated by midlevel foreigners is amazing. I can completely empathize with Chill's awe and enthusiasm during today's event.
|
Games were fun to watch but imo both casters sort of ruined the intense. Have someone else cast it then it would be better.
|
The conclusions are just so poorly backed up. People refeer to IEM and goes, "well, it`s over. Koreans are once again miles ahead of the foreigners and the skill gap will just increase"
A month later, well we can now obvisouly see that the korean scene vs. the foreign scene, NO PROBLEM=D
Why make assumptions when there are no backed up assumptions to be made?
|
You're being overly sensitive. Chill and Husky did a good job today.
|
On March 27 2011 08:14 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:11 HolyArrow wrote:
I agree with OP. Chill, and, to a lesser extent, Husky both came off as kind of taking advantage of the Korean players's lag issues to praise foreigner play and make them sound as if they actually beat a top Korean pro in a fair environment. Chill and Husky aren't stupid; anyone who's casted as many games as them know what good stutter step micro looks like. They know that any competent player, let alone a GSL Champion, wouldn't let a Reaper or Marine get surrounded and killed by probes that early in the game. And they kept saying stuff like "Oh, and looks like Nestea is going to just waste all his roaches", as if lag didn't slow down the retreat a bit at all. It was really annoying to see absolutely no acknowledgment from the casters.
Oh, and before anyone quotes me saying, "What do you expect the casters to do? Just make lag the big issue throughout the game and take away from foreigner accomplishments?"
No. I just expected the casters to at least say something like, "And wow, it looks like MVP's stimmed marauder kiting is being affected pretty badly by lag..."
It was simply a very painful elephant in the room that none of the casters even mentioned. In fact, they kept trying to make the viewers think that, since the games are on the NA server, that the playing field is even, which came off as either dirty or at least uninformed. You wanted to have the commentators point when lag was affecting the game? So what, whenever a korean made a mistake the commentators should say "well looks like the lag is getting bad now". Not only would that totally ruin the experience, it would be impossible for them to know when there is lag and when there isnt. I'm speechless.
I put a disclaimer in the middle there pre-emptively citing how I expected people to respond, I addressed it, and you still respond in the same way. All I was saying was that a nice little acknowledgment would have been nice, rather than the casters either ignoring the lag completely (even though plenty of viewers could see differences in MVP's play from the GSL and the TSL) or even trying to imply that everything is perfectly even.
|
The cast was great and I don't mind if casters were biased towards foreigner players. Everyone is talking about "koreans vs foreigners" and u want Chill to just ignore it?
Day9 was just as biased as Chill on this aspect and no one complained.
|
On March 27 2011 08:16 Tyree wrote:
Why is there always 5-6 topics after every TSL/GSL about something that is "wrong?"
Why do we always get stuff like this:
"Forcefields, biggest problem in PvZ?"
"SC2 will die unless Stim is fixed?"
"Chill, trying to start a all out war between Foreigners vs Koreans?"
"Mech, wrong way to play the game?"
"Day9 coughed during casting, death of E-Sports?"
"Top 10 reasons why SOTG will destroy SC2 and TL.net"
etc etc
All these topics seem to me to be trying to create drama out of thin air, is it sophisticated trolling or just people nitpicking at everything?
ROFL!!! LOL!!! True statements!
|
That was the best casting I've ever seen done by Chill. I can't believe people are actually bitching about that. His analysis was spot on pretty much every game.
|
iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Commentators were developing the story and generating excitement by discussing the various elements to the matches. Because there was a latency issue you expected them to do 100% play by play and avoid the Korean vs foreigner story? Seriously? Is it truly the case that there is no easing everyone? I in fact thought they didn't get excited enough... kidding me? These were amazing upsets latency or no. Had chill screamed until he was hoarse I'd be fine with it lol
|
The foreigner vs. Korean thing is ... too much when the compliments are on the other side of the fence? If you had followed Brood War at all you would know how treacherous the foreigner vs Korean scene has been since forever and because just ONE day of all days, even if it was due to latency, Chill gets at least a little excited because WE (the foreign) scene are actually winning for once, that offends you?
|
I dunno. If we look at all these results in general, European players are beating Korean players, yes? And the way I see it, correct me if I'm wrong, but NA players seem to hold their own against EU players... I think. I don't want to use a transitive property idea, but I guess that's what I'm insinuating. European players kind of play in the same condition as Korean players, playing on the NA server. I mean, just look at the FXO invitational that's happening right now. All the games are happening on the NA server, so for EU, they're with the lag KR is getting, right?
I know, I'm basing my argument on a good amount of assumptions. I'd say that foreigners are starting to level the playing field. TSL is a bad example to use though, and I do agree with the OP.
Edit: Above all else, the commentating was fucking fantastic. They couldn't have done a better job. Just the references to korea v foreigners seems a little much, especially during a cast.
|
Chill was being his usual honest, lovely self, no issues here. 
Didn't think it was unprofessional or overdone. He was excited about the results and that was reflected in the cast. Entertaining cast as well, Chill did a good job reigning Husky in as well. Much better combo than DjWheat/Husky last week.
|
I haven't watched the matches yet, but I really don't think you can compare skill with these types of tournaments.
To be completely honest I don't think koreans take these seriously, they don't practice for them much.To them it's show up and either win or lose, no big deal.
Now to foreigners its a little different, they put alot of time into these matches there going against and are just more prepared. If koreans took it seriously I have no doubt they would dominate easily. But to them it's just a showmatch type of thing, not a competetive tourny
|
On March 27 2011 08:16 Tyree wrote:
Why is there always 5-6 topics after every TSL/GSL about something that is "wrong?"
Why do we always get stuff like this:
"Forcefields, biggest problem in PvZ?"
"SC2 will die unless Stim is fixed?"
"Chill, trying to start a all out war between Foreigners vs Koreans?"
"Mech, wrong way to play the game?"
"Day9 coughed during casting, death of E-Sports?"
"Top 10 reasons why SOTG will destroy SC2 and TL.net"
etc etc
All these topics seem to me to be trying to create drama out of thin air, is it sophisticated trolling or just people nitpicking at everything?
holy shit I almost spit out my drink
On March 27 2011 08:18 iNcontroL wrote:
Commentators were developing the story and generating excitement by discussing the various elements to the matches. Because there was a latency issue you expected them to do 100% play by play and avoid the Korean vs foreigner story? Seriously? Is it truly the case that there is no easing everyone? I in fact thought they didn't get excited enough... kidding me? These were amazing upsets latency or no. Had chill screamed until he was hoarse I'd be fine with it lol
Yes!
Looking forward to hearing you and Gretorp scream in excitement at GSL. Your enthusiastic casting made the already epic GCPL final Naniwa vs Sen ace series even better.
|
Canada5155 Posts
Seconding the OP here. Glad to see some level headed thinking and skepticism. A handful of matches is never a good indicator of overall skill comparisons.
I'm not so much annoyed with the casting (How can you hate on Chill), but with the response of the TL community. There have been some awfully ignorant things thrown around both on the forums and IRC.
|
Who gives a fuck?
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On March 27 2011 08:16 caelym wrote:
If you didn't followed competitive Broodwar, you wouldn't have the complete context in mind when watching the TSL. In BW, the skill gap between Koreans and foreigners was insurmountable. The best foreigners were worse than Korean b team players. This is where the hype of Koreans vs world comes from. Finally we, old school BW watchers/players, are seeing foreigners in SC2 legitimately competing against Koreans. Maybe our mindset is outdated, but the feeling off seeing top Koreans getting eliminated by midlevel foreigners is amazing. I can completely empathize with Chill's awe and enthusiasm during today's event.
I completely agree with this. The foreigners were redoubtably the underdogs going into this and its extremely awesome that they foreign community is going toe to toe vs them
|
I think the commentating was fantastic. Besides, even if he was intentionally being harsh (and I don't think he was) Koreans are just as guilty of basing on "white dudes" after they thrash them. Anyone remember the famous "Koreans own white dudes" video. As a white dude, I wasn't insulted. It's all in good fun man. Just sit back and enjoy the games man.
|
But nationality does come up to a certain extent. Do you always consider it unprofessional when they bring up "Oh he's swedish, there are some pretty awesome swedes out there like Jinro". Koreans were the top of the world in BW, and still are the top as far as we have managed to find out (IEM being one example). But it isn't figured out, and this is a big tournament with a lot of top level koreans versus top level foreigners so ignoring this would be pretty well ignorant.
|
Nothing wrong with the cast. The casters were just excited that foreigners were performing well in the tournament (along with 99% of the viewers watching the stream).
|
well, it's like watching a World Cup matchup with Brazil vs Korea.
Commentators WILL talk about the skill gap difference. It's not that it's unprofessional, but it is too painfully obvious not to talk about it. Also, to avoid to talk about it altogether would be disservice to the fans that don't know about the history of the game.
I didn't find talking about the skill gap many times to be unprofessional. It just showed how much Chill was excited that foreigners were closing the gap between Koreans and that kind of shows that eSports outside of Korea was growing rapidly as well.
|
IEM and Koreans placing 1st 2nd and 3rd is what started all this Koreans are in a different level talk. Which just like this is just one tournament.
Lag issuses I think it's not wise to be talking about something that you weren't apart of I'm sure if one player was lagging the other would feel it too.
AdelScott / QXC / GoOdy just played great I know everyone is probably shocked, but AdelScott and QXC both played macro games with good upgrades playing as solid as I have seen in SC2 anywhere.
|
On March 27 2011 08:18 iNcontroL wrote:
Commentators were developing the story and generating excitement by discussing the various elements to the matches. Because there was a latency issue you expected them to do 100% play by play and avoid the Korean vs foreigner story? Seriously? Is it truly the case that there is no easing everyone? I in fact thought they didn't get excited enough... kidding me? These were amazing upsets latency or no. Had chill screamed until he was hoarse I'd be fine with it lol
What I`m saying is that I want to be able to watch what I love; that being the finest koreans vs. the finest foreigners with commentators focusing on the game and what happens between the two players within the play time.
The games were not the focuse at all tonight, at. all.
Even though someone might have expectations about what commentators are going to focuse on, doesn`t mean it is ok to do so. I expect trolls to make rasist comments on youtube whenever there`s an african person eating a banana, but does that make it acceptable?
note* without saying tonights commentating was rasist by any means ofc, LOL =D
|
You know what's annoying? People who should cheer for their foreigner-kin, since they don't have many opportunities to do so, and instead, find every and any possible excuse as to why koreans shouldn't have lost and foreigners are undeserving. What the hell man, for once the koreans aren't DOMINATING everyone else, and people actually talk about lag and such? I feel like it was Chill's responsability to point out how much the foreigners are doing well against koreans for once.
I mean, even the koreans are being mannered, and so far, they are saying they underestimated the foreigners etc.
|
On March 27 2011 08:18 PokePill wrote:
The foreigner vs. Korean thing is ... too much when the compliments are on the other side of the fence? If you had followed Brood War at all you would know how treacherous the foreigner vs Korean scene has been since forever and because just ONE day of all days, even if it was due to latency, Chill gets at least a little excited because WE (the foreign) scene are actually winning for once, that offends you?
Yeah, I think you summed up some of my thoughts for me. I know that sc2 isn't the same as BW, but in BW the skill gap was so big that when White-Ra (one of the top5 foreigners) beat a struggling Boxer, everyone rushed up and wanted to hug the guy in celebration. Sure, things are clearly different as idra and jinro alone have showed, but to me and it seems for chill as well, that this is still starcraft a game that had been completely Korean dominated and today is the first day in 10 years that Foreigners have really put on a display and taken down numerous Koreans all at once. Not just Koreans, but recent Korean champions.
|
stop being so sensitive
it's called having a story line....3 out of the 4 games were KR vs foreigner today...that was the main theme
if casters just limit discussion to only the games being casted it will get very boring and dull
that's why in other sports commentators talk about story lines...certain players off-the-field actions....stats....records.....team history, etc...
it is to generate context and excitement
|
On March 27 2011 08:16 LangJaiQQ wrote:
Games were fun to watch but imo both casters sort of ruined the intense. Have someone else cast it then it would be better.
The OP said he wanted it toned down (sounded to me like he would rather hear nothing but facts, figures, statistics, and dull drivel the entire time). You say it ruined the intensity of the matches. I say it adds hype and flavor to the cast. It's great to pit two sides against each other, especially when one of those sides has dominated the starcraft scene for so long.
What would the Ryder Cup (golf) be without USA vs The World? I know it isn't the same things, but preceived underdogs rising up makes for good commentary.
|
On March 27 2011 08:16 Tyree wrote:
"Day9 coughed during casting, death of E-Sports?"
LOL u sir made me laugh
ON TOPIC: i think alot of people take the commentary business tooooo seriously calm down its just a game, dont keep crying and hating on husky and chill. i found their commentary very enjoyable. The only thing that bothered me watching this was that the koreans didnt seem to try as hard as i expected, maybe they take this as a joke or the lag is too intense for this to be a successful. anyway the games were awesome had alot of fun watching
the foreigners are proving they may be on par with the Koreans tho
|
On March 27 2011 08:18 iNcontroL wrote:
Commentators were developing the story and generating excitement by discussing the various elements to the matches. Because there was a latency issue you expected them to do 100% play by play and avoid the Korean vs foreigner story? Seriously? Is it truly the case that there is no easing everyone? I in fact thought they didn't get excited enough... kidding me? These were amazing upsets latency or no. Had chill screamed until he was hoarse I'd be fine with it lol
Well said, was going to post something similar.
|
obviously chill was biased casting, but who cares about casting when the koreans are playing with atleast a second of lag?
|
I think in general the korean and foreign scenes have always had some separation between them, both in terms of language and playing from the other side of the world means that more lag will be present. So besides the foreigners who stay as progamers in Korea, you seldom see the two groups of gamers face off against each other. So a point of interest is not just about player vs player, it is about region vs region. Also keep in mind that all of the invited koreans are progamers, whilst this is not true for most of the foreigner players. That places an additional gap between the players.
I don't think it's unprofessional to point out this difference between the players. It has for a long time been assumed that progamers are by default better than competitive foreigners, Results from tournaments have both to some degree confirmed and unconfirmed this assumption. And although the tournament in the end comes down to player vs player, it is also fun and interesting to examine how the foreign community as a whole are matching up against the professionals.
Koreans are not gaming machines all made out of the same mold. You see this in interviews and from their styles of play. I think the casters acknowledge this too. I feel the OP needs a spoiler alert in it since it is hard to discuss this without bringing up the recent TSL results.
|
I quite liked the fact that the casters played up the foreigner vs Korean dynamic. That was one of the exciting story lines going into these matches and the casters would have been remiss if they hadn't emphasized that. I thought the tone of the cast was respectful and completely professional. Props to Chill and Husky for an entertaining cast.
|
On March 27 2011 08:27 intergalactic wrote:
You know what's annoying? People who should cheer for their foreigner-kin, since they don't have many opportunities to do so, and instead, find every and any possible excuse as to why koreans shouldn't have lost and foreigners are undeserving. What the hell man, for once the koreans aren't DOMINATING everyone else, and people actually talk about lag and such? I feel like it was Chill's responsability to point out how much the foreigners are doing well against koreans for once.
I mean, even the koreans are being mannered, and so far, they are saying they underestimated the foreigners etc.
I don't know about you, but it feels slightly dirty when the conditions were as they were.
It's like if you had a boxing champion who usually owns it up all the time, and some underdog who usually loses to the champion. One day they have a showmatch, but the champion is sick or something and loses. Then all the fans of the underdog praise him when he wins, saying, "Oh wow, he did so well against the champion!"
Doesn't that feel wrong? It sure does to me. I know for sure that when I'm playing something competitively and I win under unfair conditions and everyone blindly compliments me, I feel a bit dirty and kind of annoyed at the shortsightedness of people. For instance, back when I played badminton competitively, I beat one of the best players on my team even though she was kind of sick and had a wrist injury. People were like, "Wow dude you're so good!" and were talking about how much better player I had become, but I knew that I only won because of the unfair conditions, and I felt pretty annoyed at all the people simply jumping to conclusions without looking at the situation objectively.
That's just how I am, and I'm pretty sure that people with a similar mentality to mine see this situation in a similar light.
|
I think the Korea vs Foreigners thing is the biggest storyline of the tournament, and I have no problem with his emphasis on this. Commentators jobs are to make the game as exciting as possible and I think that a lot of that excitement comes from the David vs Goliath thing. The Koreans are the Goliaths and the foreigners are the Davids and focusing on this a technique by the casters to pump of the fans. I have no problem with this, he's doing his job, and his excitement I'm sure transfers a lot over to the fans.
I think chill did a great job. But you know, haters gonna hate.
|
On March 27 2011 08:28 Trezeguet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:18 PokePill wrote:
The foreigner vs. Korean thing is ... too much when the compliments are on the other side of the fence? If you had followed Brood War at all you would know how treacherous the foreigner vs Korean scene has been since forever and because just ONE day of all days, even if it was due to latency, Chill gets at least a little excited because WE (the foreign) scene are actually winning for once, that offends you? Yeah, I think you summed up some of my thoughts for me. I know that sc2 isn't the same as BW, but in BW the skill gap was so big that when White-Ra (one of the top5 foreigners) beat a struggling Boxer, everyone rushed up and wanted to hug the guy in celebration. Sure, things are clearly different as idra and jinro alone have showed, but to me and it seems for chill as well, that this is still starcraft a game that had been completely Korean dominated and today is the first day in 10 years that Foreigners have really put on a display and taken down numerous Koreans all at once. Not just Koreans, but recent Korean champions.
I am in no way, shape or form offended by the commentating and it`s not as big of a deal for me personally than most people think. All it did was take focuse away from what should have been the focuse, the games. I think it made it sound unproffesional
|
On March 27 2011 08:16 caelym wrote:
If you didn't followed competitive Broodwar, you wouldn't have the complete context in mind when watching the TSL. In BW, the skill gap between Koreans and foreigners was insurmountable. The best foreigners were worse than Korean b team players. This is where the hype of Koreans vs world comes from. Finally we, old school BW watchers/players, are seeing foreigners in SC2 legitimately competing against Koreans. Maybe our mindset is outdated, but the feeling off seeing top Koreans getting eliminated by midlevel foreigners is amazing. I can completely empathize with Chill's awe and enthusiasm during today's event.
This.
It was pretty uncommon in BW for any foreigner to give a korean progamer a tough game. The fact that games are so close between foreigners and koreans are really surprising and rare to anyone that follows the BW scene.
|
On March 27 2011 08:29 GiantEnemyCrab wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:16 Tyree wrote:
"Day9 coughed during casting, death of E-Sports?"
LOL u sir made me laugh ON TOPIC: i think alot of people take the commentary business tooooo seriously calm down its just a game, dont keep crying and hating on husky and chill. i found their commentary very enjoyable. The only thing that bothered me watching this was that the koreans didnt seem to try as hard as i expected, maybe they take this as a joke or the lag is too intense for this to be a successful. anyway the games were awesome had alot of fun watching
It`s just a game, exactly. Then commentate the games and leave it be. I didnt`take any offense or anything from tonights cast, I just think it ruined abit of the commentating bit(game commentating)
|
Basing your argument on 3 completely arbitrary assumptions is hardly a good base for discussion.
|
On March 27 2011 08:34 eoLithic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:28 Trezeguet wrote:On March 27 2011 08:18 PokePill wrote:
The foreigner vs. Korean thing is ... too much when the compliments are on the other side of the fence? If you had followed Brood War at all you would know how treacherous the foreigner vs Korean scene has been since forever and because just ONE day of all days, even if it was due to latency, Chill gets at least a little excited because WE (the foreign) scene are actually winning for once, that offends you? Yeah, I think you summed up some of my thoughts for me. I know that sc2 isn't the same as BW, but in BW the skill gap was so big that when White-Ra (one of the top5 foreigners) beat a struggling Boxer, everyone rushed up and wanted to hug the guy in celebration. Sure, things are clearly different as idra and jinro alone have showed, but to me and it seems for chill as well, that this is still starcraft a game that had been completely Korean dominated and today is the first day in 10 years that Foreigners have really put on a display and taken down numerous Koreans all at once. Not just Koreans, but recent Korean champions. I am in no way, shape or form offended by the commentating and it`s not as big of a deal for me personally than most people think. All it did was take focuse away from what should have been the focuse, the games. I think it made it sound unproffesional
Unprofessional compared to what?
''Normal'' sports commentating? I can't think of a single sport where there's not a solid portion of the commentating that's focused on the histories/rivalries between the teams/athletes.
|
If you felt like the cast was degrading Koreans, that's your fault and not the commentary. Naturally, foreigner casters are going to back foreigner players, and there is NOTHING wrong with that. Not once did the commentators say anything negative about the Koreans. It seems to me that you're just upset about the fact that foreigner commentators getting happy about foreigner players.
Here's a warning to you, never watch Khaldor cast any games with German players. ; )
|
I only managed to the catch the last series and a few glimps of the series before but I look forward to watching them tomorrow morning.
I think I can add something to the discussion. It about ways casters present information. I think it was Tyler who said it on Sotg once and it really opened my eyes. What his point came down to is excitement/surprise is a big part of watching a cast. If there is an attack happening and you show the defender will have x and hold it off. You watch the attack unfold and pretty much know whats gonna happen. Whereas if you actively decide to withold that information so that when you watch the attack happen, you have no clue, it could go either way, omg hes losing and bam, x finishes or pops out and he manages to defend it, that was close!
Why I feel it was so interesting is because it allows you to sort of rationalise flaws in casting. There are so many people who feel the need to point out small errors and what not, while you could easily not care and even think about what positive stuff it can actually adds. You have to apply this with common sense, it's not a guideline or end all view just something to explore from time to time.
Now to come back to the point of the casting being swayed what is deemed unfairly by some, it's easy to say the, what I presume passionate and maybe slight exgaguration, adds a lot of that excitement. And that's just what it is. Making the game fun to watch.
|
the problem is the community with overwhelming expectations. some people here expect everything should be done 100% perfect. instead of crying, try appreciating that there is a TSL and you are getting to watch this players play in the first place.
another thing i hate is that there are alot of Day9 fanboys out there who want EVERY caster to be a replica of him. day9 is good in his dailies but plz i kno alot of people enjoy listening to the entertaining cast rather then analytical during this tournament.
lastly, give credit where its due. i cant believe people are disappointed that the koreans lost. they are not perfect.
|
On March 27 2011 08:33 fire_brand wrote:
I think the Korea vs Foreigners thing is the biggest storyline of the tournament, and I have no problem with his emphasis on this. Commentators jobs are to make the game as exciting as possible and I think that a lot of that excitement comes from the David vs Goliath thing. The Koreans are the Goliaths and the foreigners are the Davids and focusing on this a technique by the casters to pump of the fans. I have no problem with this, he's doing his job, and his excitement I'm sure transfers a lot over to the fans.
I think chill did a great job. But you know, haters gonna hate.
I am by no means hating on Chill. Making me look like troll is not the way to go. I emphasised that I love Chill and think the commentating part was good.
Do not claim that I am a "hater" when I am clearly not hating on Chill.
|
On March 27 2011 08:33 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:27 intergalactic wrote:
You know what's annoying? People who should cheer for their foreigner-kin, since they don't have many opportunities to do so, and instead, find every and any possible excuse as to why koreans shouldn't have lost and foreigners are undeserving. What the hell man, for once the koreans aren't DOMINATING everyone else, and people actually talk about lag and such? I feel like it was Chill's responsability to point out how much the foreigners are doing well against koreans for once.
I mean, even the koreans are being mannered, and so far, they are saying they underestimated the foreigners etc. I don't know about you, but it feels slightly dirty when the conditions were as they were. It's like if you had a boxing champion who usually owns it up all the time, and some underdog who usually loses to the champion. One day they have a showmatch, but the champion is sick or something and loses. Then all the fans of the underdog praise him when he wins, saying, "Oh wow, he did so well against the champion!" Doesn't that feel wrong? It sure does to me. I know for sure that when I'm playing something competitively and I win under unfair conditions and everyone blindly compliments me, I feel a bit dirty and kind of annoyed at the shortsightedness of people. For instance, back when I played badminton competitively, I beat one of the best players on my team even though she was kind of sick and had a wrist injury. People were like, "Wow dude you're so good!" and were talking about how much better player I had become, but I knew that I only won because of the unfair conditions, and I felt pretty annoyed at all the people simply jumping to conclusions without looking at the situation objectively. That's just how I am, and I'm pretty sure that people with a similar mentality to mine see this situation in a similar light.
Because lag only affects Koreans.
|
I agree that the Koreans didn't practice as hard as the foreigners specifically for this event. imho, this is why the foreigners were able to do as well as they did.
|
Honestly I think it'd normally be fine, it's complimenting to the Koreans after all (as they're acknowledging that foreigners are the underdogs), but when coupled with the latency issue it's definitely annoying to hear, since the conclusions are based on games that weren't played in optimal conditions.
I often cheer for the foreigners, but watching them beat the struggling, lagged Koreans today was horrible. It's a shame, because I was initially so excited about the Korean invites, now I think it was a mistake...
If the foreigners manage to own it up in the GOMtv World Tournament, I guarantee you there won't be this sort of controversy.
|
On March 27 2011 08:33 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:27 intergalactic wrote:
You know what's annoying? People who should cheer for their foreigner-kin, since they don't have many opportunities to do so, and instead, find every and any possible excuse as to why koreans shouldn't have lost and foreigners are undeserving. What the hell man, for once the koreans aren't DOMINATING everyone else, and people actually talk about lag and such? I feel like it was Chill's responsability to point out how much the foreigners are doing well against koreans for once.
I mean, even the koreans are being mannered, and so far, they are saying they underestimated the foreigners etc. I don't know about you, but it feels slightly dirty when the conditions were as they were. It's like if you had a boxing champion who usually owns it up all the time, and some underdog who usually loses to the champion. One day they have a showmatch, but the champion is sick or something and loses. Then all the fans of the underdog praise him when he wins, saying, "Oh wow, he did so well against the champion!" Doesn't that feel wrong? It sure does to me. I know for sure that when I'm playing something competitively and I win under unfair conditions and everyone blindly compliments me, I feel a bit dirty and kind of annoyed at the shortsightedness of people. For instance, back when I played badminton competitively, I beat one of the best players on my team even though she was kind of sick and had a wrist injury. People were like, "Wow dude you're so good!" and were talking about how much better player I had become, but I knew that I only won because of the unfair conditions, and I felt pretty annoyed at all the people simply jumping to conclusions without looking at the situation objectively. That's just how I am, and I'm pretty sure that people with a similar mentality to mine see this situation in a similar light.
What? Are you referring to lag? You are comparing two extremely different situations and rationalizing subjectively.
1- Two people competing in a sport, one of them is sick and the other wins.
2- Two people playing online game, one of them has 0.3 sec delay more than the other. They were alternating servers so the delay advantage is split. The underdogs wins with convincing 2-0 macro games, where micro wasn't a deciding factor.
How is this even comparable? Why do you feel you need to defend the koreans' disadvantage, when even they don't feel the need to defend themselves?
|
i was not around during the BW days and was only vaguely aware of the korean dominance from a friend who did play BW, so when i found this site several months ago and realized that i needed to go watch some korean play i did. I seen a very noticeable difference in skill level, even then in my extreme noob eyes. Now I watch a lot more pro games and i notice the difference less but i can still see that the korean players are usually quicker and have better unit control. ( granted i watch a lot of low pro level in the foreign scene and only watch Koreans in GSL)
I would say what the foreign scene has going for it is a lot of creativity and more unusual builds that the koreans may not have been ready for. all three foreigners today played kind of unorthodox.
I know its been said before but foreigners practice differently from koreans, and im interested to see where this difference will take us in the years to come.
|
From a hype point of view it's exactly what they wanted.
Everyone loves upsets and the Korean vs Foreigner storyline plays on national pride which a lot of people feel so it's just a great storyline.
I don't think Chill did anything wrong by emphasisng the storyline. You may not like it but I bet a lot of people did and that's what they'll be talking about at School/College/Work tomorrow.
That's what matters.
|
On March 27 2011 08:44 Wohmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:33 HolyArrow wrote:On March 27 2011 08:27 intergalactic wrote:
You know what's annoying? People who should cheer for their foreigner-kin, since they don't have many opportunities to do so, and instead, find every and any possible excuse as to why koreans shouldn't have lost and foreigners are undeserving. What the hell man, for once the koreans aren't DOMINATING everyone else, and people actually talk about lag and such? I feel like it was Chill's responsability to point out how much the foreigners are doing well against koreans for once.
I mean, even the koreans are being mannered, and so far, they are saying they underestimated the foreigners etc. I don't know about you, but it feels slightly dirty when the conditions were as they were. It's like if you had a boxing champion who usually owns it up all the time, and some underdog who usually loses to the champion. One day they have a showmatch, but the champion is sick or something and loses. Then all the fans of the underdog praise him when he wins, saying, "Oh wow, he did so well against the champion!" Doesn't that feel wrong? It sure does to me. I know for sure that when I'm playing something competitively and I win under unfair conditions and everyone blindly compliments me, I feel a bit dirty and kind of annoyed at the shortsightedness of people. For instance, back when I played badminton competitively, I beat one of the best players on my team even though she was kind of sick and had a wrist injury. People were like, "Wow dude you're so good!" and were talking about how much better player I had become, but I knew that I only won because of the unfair conditions, and I felt pretty annoyed at all the people simply jumping to conclusions without looking at the situation objectively. That's just how I am, and I'm pretty sure that people with a similar mentality to mine see this situation in a similar light. Because lag only affects Koreans.
It's been said multiple times EU-NA is better than KR-NA.
Also, Lag definitely came to play in Genius/Nestea's games. Multiple occasions you can see Nesteas army dancing around Goody's forces needlessly; I don't think Nestea would be dumb enough to constantly get hit by tank/hellions and react that slowly.
I do agree that Chill was biased against Koreans, talking constantly about the drama between the two. While I think it would've been better as you said if he kept to the games instead of focusing on nationality for the spirit of being an international event, lot of people on TL enjoy drama like this and I'm sure Chill was doing it unconsciously in his excitement.
|
We'll see how it goes under other conditions, but seeing how well some foreigners already perform at the GSL (TLO, Jinro, Idra) and then seeing Tyler destroy Jinro or other situations like that, I don't see how Koreans are that much better anymore.
In BW they owned because you had to be a kid with 300 apm to win at this game. You needed sick mental energy to play that fast. But SC2 has much more forgiving mechanics and rewards decision making much more, allowing for older more strategical and wise player to do well.
Just my 2 cents.
|
On March 27 2011 08:48 intergalactic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:33 HolyArrow wrote:On March 27 2011 08:27 intergalactic wrote:
You know what's annoying? People who should cheer for their foreigner-kin, since they don't have many opportunities to do so, and instead, find every and any possible excuse as to why koreans shouldn't have lost and foreigners are undeserving. What the hell man, for once the koreans aren't DOMINATING everyone else, and people actually talk about lag and such? I feel like it was Chill's responsability to point out how much the foreigners are doing well against koreans for once.
I mean, even the koreans are being mannered, and so far, they are saying they underestimated the foreigners etc. I don't know about you, but it feels slightly dirty when the conditions were as they were. It's like if you had a boxing champion who usually owns it up all the time, and some underdog who usually loses to the champion. One day they have a showmatch, but the champion is sick or something and loses. Then all the fans of the underdog praise him when he wins, saying, "Oh wow, he did so well against the champion!" Doesn't that feel wrong? It sure does to me. I know for sure that when I'm playing something competitively and I win under unfair conditions and everyone blindly compliments me, I feel a bit dirty and kind of annoyed at the shortsightedness of people. For instance, back when I played badminton competitively, I beat one of the best players on my team even though she was kind of sick and had a wrist injury. People were like, "Wow dude you're so good!" and were talking about how much better player I had become, but I knew that I only won because of the unfair conditions, and I felt pretty annoyed at all the people simply jumping to conclusions without looking at the situation objectively. That's just how I am, and I'm pretty sure that people with a similar mentality to mine see this situation in a similar light. What? Are you referring to lag? You are comparing two extremely different situations and rationalizing subjectively. 1- Two people competing in a sport, one of them is sick and the other wins. 2- Two people playing online game, one of them has 0.3 sec delay more than the other. They were alternating servers so the delay advantage is split. The underdogs wins with convincing 2-0 macro games, where micro wasn't a deciding factor. How is this even comparable? Why do you feel you need to defend the koreans' disadvantage, when even they don't feel the need to defend themselves?
The lag looked pretty obvious as I watched the games. Like, I've seen plenty of anecdotal evidence regarding KR having much worse lag issues than EU, such as BoxeR, FXOpen, ddoro, IdrA, and Loner's coach all mentioning it. But I'm not even going to base my argument off of that. I'm going to base my argument off of things I clearly saw happen in games, such as amateur mistakes by MVP losing his reaper to probes, Genius's lagfields, or MVP's subpar MM kiting. Also, they were not alternating servers as far as I know. It was always on the NA server - I've seen this clarified many times.
And micro is a big deciding factor in macro games. It ALL comes together to affect a game broadly. Small engagements that involve micro play huge roles in deciding the flow of a macro game. To disregard micro and say "Oh, but they won in macro games" shows that you have little understanding of how Starcraft 2 works and flows as a whole.
|
Let's focus our anger at blizzard. TSL was just making the most of a mediocre situation caused by Rob Pardo's arbitrary ego trip a la "you REALLY want LAN?"
|
i didnt get annoyed by chills emphasis on this theme, but i think many ppl are overestimating the significance of todays results. most well-known foreigners have played hundreds of games in various smaller foreigner events like craftcups. if a korean would be willing to prepare perfectly for his foreigner opponent, he could easily find more material about him than the foreigner could find about the korean.
that the koreans seemed unprepared for the style of play they were facing to me shows that they didnt give their best in preparing for the tsl games, either because of a conscious decision about their priorities or because of arrogance, who knows. additionally, they were probably more affected by lag than the europeans. but, as has been pointed out before, this is no excuse for the high amount of really bad decisions they´ve made today.
|
Without bothering to quote Incontrol, what he said. <3
You(OP)are not a hater you are a fan with slightly above average love. :D
Having very little scbw watching myself, (watched mainly Wc3) I think what he did is absolutely great. Chill and husky did their jobs with superb excitement and enthusiasm. This mentioning of "Foreigner vs Korea" is the history of starcraft. To not explain it would be a disservice to our sport. If the lag was truly an issue the gamers themselves will make a post and make it public that they thought they lost due to lag. Reguardless all of this including my own post are opinions and as we all know opinions are like assholes everyone has one and they all smell
Their job is not to say "He is making 10 banelings, will it work?" its to say "HE IS MAKING 10 BANELINGS THE MARINES ARE COMING UP THE RAMP OMG THEY ARE ALL DEADDDD WILL HE WINNNNN!?!?!?!?!?!?"
TL/dr: commentator's jobs are one of two things They are HYPE they make everything said, done, and felt in a game come alive. The second thing is that they bring things that casual observers wouldn't see because they lack experience with the game I.E. A football commentator explaining how a certain rule works.
|
I thought the point of having an open and free discussion on these forums was to improve upon things so they are even better in the future? The OP has the right to speak his mind and didn't break any TL rules from my understanding. He simply voiced his concern that he thought the casting today came off as somewhat of a biased and negative tone towards one segment of the player base.
I also felt the same way and even at one point on a different topic all together he said something along the lines of " I always thought of Naniwa as a dick" or something along those lines. He still said that he started to like him after so I'm not trying to make him sound totally unprofessional but I guess the point is crude commentary sometimes can come off leaving a bad taste in viewers mouths. If they want to hype the whole korea vs rest of the world angle more power to them but I guess the approach needs to be tweaked imo..
If anything the most alarming thing I've noticed these days on TL are the amount of people who blindly defend others and call for threads to be closed and question any topic created that points to some sort of criticism, I know this isn't a democracy, it's a forum with rules moderator law etc. but if you ask me open criticism is what makes things better in the long run, not some sort place where its taboo to make valid criticisms towards things
|
On March 27 2011 08:55 Black Gun wrote:
i didnt get annoyed by chills emphasis on this theme, but i think many ppl are overestimating the significance of todays results. most well-known foreigners have played hundreds of games in various smaller foreigner events like craftcups. if a korean would be willing to prepare perfectly for his foreigner opponent, he could easily find more material about him than the foreigner could find about the korean.
that the koreans seemed unprepared for the style of play they were facing to me shows that they didnt give their best in preparing for the tsl games, either because of a conscious decision about their priorities or because of arrogance, who knows. additionally, they were probably more affected by lag than the europeans. but, as has been pointed out before, this is no excuse for the high amount of really bad decisions they´ve made today.
It was 3 game. As the Starcraft community usually sais concerning conclusion drawn from few games: not enough!
3 games are simply no excuse to go on a 3 hour long story telling session about how the gap all of a sudden dissapeared.
|
On March 27 2011 08:56 Sylverin wrote:
Without bothering to quote Incontrol, what he said. <3
You(OP)are not a hater you are a fan with slightly above average love. :D
Having very little scbw watching myself, (watched mainly Wc3) I think what he did is absolutely great. Chill and husky did their jobs with superb excitement and enthusiasm. This mentioning of "Foreigner vs Korea" is the history of starcraft. To not explain it would be a disservice to our sport. If the lag was truly an issue the gamers themselves will make a post and make it public that they thought they lost due to lag. Reguardless all of this including my own post are opinions and as we all know opinions are like assholes everyone has one and they all smell
Their job is not to say "He is making 10 banelings, will it work?" its to say "HE IS MAKING 10 BANELINGS THE MARINES ARE COMING UP THE RAMP OMG THEY ARE ALL DEADDDD WILL HE WINNNNN!?!?!?!?!?!?"
TL/dr: commentator's jobs are one of two things They are HYPE they make everything said, done, and felt in a game come alive. The second thing is that they bring things that casual observers wouldn't see because they lack experience with the game I.E. A football commentator explaining how a certain rule works.
It`s ok to some extend. Stop making it seem like I do not tolerate the hype at all, beacuse I do =D
Probably the reason why i have not posted this earlier.
|
what is wrong with the casters creating a rivalry between koreans and foreigners? it makes it more enjoyable and intense even though the players themselves may not think of it as a rivalry. its not like they were completely biased in favor of foreigners. a lot of korean players are hyped a lot and people want to see them play. also, there is a korean stream for TSL. are you saying that they shouldn't hype for korean players? seems a little ridiculous to me. just reporting whats happening on the stream is kinda boring. hype the players, create some rivalries and make the streams entertaining.
|
The commentators (Chill and Husky) were so biased it was disgusting to watch even compared to Tastosis. At least Tastosis give Koreans some real backgrounds and insights to their build or lack of due to w/e problem they had. It was like watching the foreigner's pov vods.
|
On March 27 2011 09:01 dAPhREAk wrote:
what is wrong with the casters creating a rivalry between koreans and foreigners? it makes it more enjoyable and intense even though the players themselves may not think of it as a rivalry. its not like they were completely biased in favor of foreigners. a lot of korean players are hyped a lot and people want to see them play. also, there is a korean stream for TSL. are you saying that they shouldn't hype for korean players? seems a little ridiculous to me. just reporting whats happening on the stream is kinda boring. hype the players, create some rivalries and make the streams entertaining.
Because it makes Korean viewers irritated when watching TSL. (as well as people like OP) It's not just watched by people in NA/EU. Nothing wrong with drama itself, but when it gets mentioned excessively, it does get a bit annoying.
|
3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
yeah I definitely refuse to believe foreigners have closed the gap in skill level
ive seen MVP vs Adel and Genius vs qxc so far, and MVP played as if he did not prepare at all. and i hate to say it, but i felt the lag was a deciding factor in Adel's win.
qxc completely outplayed Genius though, I am now a fan of John Lennon
|
So you want the casters to ignore the elephant in the room? (the fact that Koreans own everyone else historically in SC). I thought you said you admired Chill for telling it like it is. Frankly, it is a big deal.
|
On March 27 2011 09:01 dAPhREAk wrote:
what is wrong with the casters creating a rivalry between koreans and foreigners? it makes it more enjoyable and intense even though the players themselves may not think of it as a rivalry. its not like they were completely biased in favor of foreigners. a lot of korean players are hyped a lot and people want to see them play. also, there is a korean stream for TSL. are you saying that they shouldn't hype for korean players? seems a little ridiculous to me. just reporting whats happening on the stream is kinda boring. hype the players, create some rivalries and make the streams entertaining.
To some extend, jesus.
I accept some hype, but when it turns the entire game into a huge story about foreigners finally equalling the koreans, it needs to be toned down.
|
On March 27 2011 09:04 Nayl wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 09:01 dAPhREAk wrote:
what is wrong with the casters creating a rivalry between koreans and foreigners? it makes it more enjoyable and intense even though the players themselves may not think of it as a rivalry. its not like they were completely biased in favor of foreigners. a lot of korean players are hyped a lot and people want to see them play. also, there is a korean stream for TSL. are you saying that they shouldn't hype for korean players? seems a little ridiculous to me. just reporting whats happening on the stream is kinda boring. hype the players, create some rivalries and make the streams entertaining. Because it makes Korean viewers irritated when watching TSL. (as well as people like OP) It's not just watched by people in NA/EU.
aside from the obvious answer that there is also a korean stream, i didnt see the casting as "biased." they were obviously foreigner fanboys, but its not like they focused specifically on the foreigners' good points and ignored the koreans' good points. the foreigners played well, the casters talked about that, the casters were excited, the games were exciting.
|
On March 27 2011 09:05 Dizz wrote:
So you want the casters to ignore the elephant in the room? (the fact that Koreans own everyone else historically in SC). I thought you said you admired Chill for telling it like it is. Frankly, it is a big deal.
I have not mentioned anything about completly ignoring the fact that there is a story behind the two scenes, have I?
Tonight though, it made the casting from Chills side, abit unproffesional.
|
3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
if anything, the foreigners today won as a result of much better preparation, which never happened in BW due to Koreans having a much higher work ethic and due to them taking WCG as a matter of national pride
|
The core thing the Koreans lost to were styles of play they were unfamiliar with in addition to them not knowing that much about their opponents.
In the end the Korean players are still better than who they lost to, except genius because i don't know much about him, as was evident in MVP's micro almost winning when he was clearly disadvantaged.
So while foreigners are getting better that is not the primary reason MVP and Nestea lost.
|
On March 27 2011 09:06 eoLithic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 09:01 dAPhREAk wrote:
what is wrong with the casters creating a rivalry between koreans and foreigners? it makes it more enjoyable and intense even though the players themselves may not think of it as a rivalry. its not like they were completely biased in favor of foreigners. a lot of korean players are hyped a lot and people want to see them play. also, there is a korean stream for TSL. are you saying that they shouldn't hype for korean players? seems a little ridiculous to me. just reporting whats happening on the stream is kinda boring. hype the players, create some rivalries and make the streams entertaining. To some extend, jesus. I accept some hype, but when it turns the entire game into a huge story about foreigners finally equalling the koreans, it needs to be toned down.
well, koreans have dominated the sc1 scene for the last decade. foreigners appear to finally have a shot at equal footing (although one tournament with latency issues won't really determine that). the casters and probably 95% of tl.net are rooting for the underdog foreigners. the casters cater to their audience, not to the few people who would prefer what you are suggesting.
also, i don't see why everyone see them as so "biased."
|
I personally felt the commentary was pretty good, only being better with day9, djwheat or artosis instead of husky.
I don't know how bad the lag was for the koreans, but ignoring that, I'd feel it was a bit silly if the commentators would be making excuses for the koreans for loosing. "ohh goody did play ok, though clearly he's the worse player because you can see nestea lagging there", I mean it'd be silly to say, even if true.
|
they were excited that we can finally be looked upon in the same light as koreans. the more they ham it up, the more respect it implies. if they're so excited that you find they're being unfairly biased, it just goes to show what enormous respect they have for korean players.
|
On March 27 2011 08:16 Tyree wrote:
Why is there always 5-6 topics after every TSL/GSL about something that is "wrong?"
Why do we always get stuff like this:
"Forcefields, biggest problem in PvZ?"
"SC2 will die unless Stim is fixed?"
"Chill, trying to start a all out war between Foreigners vs Koreans?"
"Mech, wrong way to play the game?"
"Day9 coughed during casting, death of E-Sports?"
"Top 10 reasons why SOTG will destroy SC2 and TL.net"
etc etc
All these topics seem to me to be trying to create drama out of thin air, is it sophisticated trolling or just people nitpicking at everything?
i couldnt agree more. it seems people are not thinking before making a thread and just making pointless drama.
|
I don't mind some casting bias, such as when Artosis and Tasteless root for Clide or Jinro. However, I do share the same feeling as the OP regarding Chill's over emphasis regarding foreigners catching up to the Koreans. I don't think Chill mentioned once regarding the latency at all. For example, in the second game between MVP and Adelscott, MVP got his marine and reaper killed by a probe surround. It was obvious that it was due to latency, but Chill ignored it and blamed MVP and lauded the skills of adelscott.
Though I do understand where Chill is coming from. The koreans have been owning us in Broodwar, so it's heartwarming how foreigners showing results in starcraft 2.
On the other hand, I thought Husky was very professional. He's been doing a great job!
|
On March 27 2011 09:16 aFganFlyTrap wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:16 Tyree wrote:
Why is there always 5-6 topics after every TSL/GSL about something that is "wrong?"
Why do we always get stuff like this:
"Forcefields, biggest problem in PvZ?"
"SC2 will die unless Stim is fixed?"
"Chill, trying to start a all out war between Foreigners vs Koreans?"
"Mech, wrong way to play the game?"
"Day9 coughed during casting, death of E-Sports?"
"Top 10 reasons why SOTG will destroy SC2 and TL.net"
etc etc
All these topics seem to me to be trying to create drama out of thin air, is it sophisticated trolling or just people nitpicking at everything?
i couldnt agree more. it seems people are not thinking before making a thread and just making pointless drama.
Was it me or Chill, that made pointless drama tonight?
This is an issue that I think needs to be adressed. One liners like your reply doesn`t add up to anything in this thread. Why accusing someone of trolling, when just stating their opinions?
Keep it focused on the topic and not on what you think I am trying to do.
|
Well it you look at a lot of the player's performance in the GSL, Fruitdealer, Boxer, and MvP, it has not been all that great recently. They got invited because of performance in the past of in the case of Boxer and possibly Nada, because of their history back in 2000-2004
|
The OP said it, he "is not offended by the commentating". The casters are just happy or surprised that skill gap between koreans and foreigners have closed up. At least that's what the casters think. And I think they were doing a great job of COMMENTATING the games.
|
I agree it was quite unproffesional casters should set aside their biases at least until after the match is over and just cast the game as is, i love chill as a commentator and he did fine in the other games he casted last weekend but today seemed like overkill.
|
Imo everyones putting the korean players on a pedestal and are not really giving credit where it due because the koreans owned in sc1. Most if not all of the foreign players would have practiced their asses off just to make sure they where at the peak of their game for tsl. Now it shows how much practice they had when these upset occur. Mvp lost due to facing a build he was not use to playing against and even then he had almost won just because his micro was better but adel heavy gateway build is not seen very often and he showed how powerful it can be. Now for genius he was straight outplayed by qxc. Now as for the commentating lol i found it fun. It made me pay attention much more to the matches since tsl3 has turned the supposed korean dominance upside down just shows that although they still may be ahead in skill lvl everyone else is catching up fast and then none of the korean/foreigner crap won't matter.
|
The Koreans start playing their matches at 3.00AM or later so I'm wondering if that would have make any sort of difference to their game-play.
|
I don't understand how this is unprofessional. One of the biggest draws of the TSL3 is that it's the best Korean players against the best foreigners. How is pointing this out during your casts unprofessional?
|
It's pretty much like that in every sport if the underdog is winning.
Just imagine the first time that Japan did not win the gold medal in judo.
It was a really big deal and pretty much the closing of the skill gap was the main topic that followed the poor winner the next months.
|
On March 27 2011 09:21 cheesemaster wrote:
I agree it was quite unproffesional casters should set aside their biases at least until after the match is over and just cast the game as is, i love chill as a commentator and he did fine in the other games he casted last weekend but today seemed like overkill.
you know, by calling the casters (and tl.net by proxy) "unprofessional" you are insulting them for using their free time to entertain you at no cost to you. people should give a little more respect to the people who created this website and offer content at no cost. you can state your opinions on what you like and dont like, but mud flinging is really not necessary. what exactly have you provided to the community?
|
On March 27 2011 09:23 phoney wrote:
The Koreans start playing their matches at 3.00AM or later so I'm wondering if that would have make any sort of difference to their game-play.
It was casted from replays.
|
I have mixed feelings on this issue. On the one hand, the evidence backing a skill gap between Koreans and others is flimsy in SC2 compared to in BW, making the entire discourse less grounded. On the other hand, the discourse definitely exists, in part because of the fact that it is a point of contention rather than commonly accepted knowledge. Ultimately, it is up to the commentator and his audience to project and accept the perpetuation of that discourse.
I personally find the skill gap narrative less relevant to my viewing experience than, say, a narrative on the role of reapers in lategame TvP, but I'm sure other viewers may be interested in hearing about that, and commentators have the right to feel that the skill gap must be spoken to.
|
On March 27 2011 09:24 Rokk wrote:
I don't understand how this is unprofessional. One of the biggest draws of the TSL3 is that it's the best Korean players against the best foreigners. How is pointing this out during your casts unprofessional?
But most of these guys that were knocked out are not performing well in TSL or performing well in GSL recently.
|
On March 27 2011 08:48 intergalactic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:33 HolyArrow wrote:On March 27 2011 08:27 intergalactic wrote:
You know what's annoying? People who should cheer for their foreigner-kin, since they don't have many opportunities to do so, and instead, find every and any possible excuse as to why koreans shouldn't have lost and foreigners are undeserving. What the hell man, for once the koreans aren't DOMINATING everyone else, and people actually talk about lag and such? I feel like it was Chill's responsability to point out how much the foreigners are doing well against koreans for once.
I mean, even the koreans are being mannered, and so far, they are saying they underestimated the foreigners etc. I don't know about you, but it feels slightly dirty when the conditions were as they were. It's like if you had a boxing champion who usually owns it up all the time, and some underdog who usually loses to the champion. One day they have a showmatch, but the champion is sick or something and loses. Then all the fans of the underdog praise him when he wins, saying, "Oh wow, he did so well against the champion!" Doesn't that feel wrong? It sure does to me. I know for sure that when I'm playing something competitively and I win under unfair conditions and everyone blindly compliments me, I feel a bit dirty and kind of annoyed at the shortsightedness of people. For instance, back when I played badminton competitively, I beat one of the best players on my team even though she was kind of sick and had a wrist injury. People were like, "Wow dude you're so good!" and were talking about how much better player I had become, but I knew that I only won because of the unfair conditions, and I felt pretty annoyed at all the people simply jumping to conclusions without looking at the situation objectively. That's just how I am, and I'm pretty sure that people with a similar mentality to mine see this situation in a similar light. What? Are you referring to lag? You are comparing two extremely different situations and rationalizing subjectively. 1- Two people competing in a sport, one of them is sick and the other wins. 2- Two people playing online game, one of them has 0.3 sec delay more than the other. They were alternating servers so the delay advantage is split. The underdogs wins with convincing 2-0 macro games, where micro wasn't a deciding factor. How is this even comparable? Why do you feel you need to defend the koreans' disadvantage, when even they don't feel the need to defend themselves?
People need to stop saying they were alternating servers, for the games between EU and KR (aka all the games today cept for ret naniwa) they are all played on the NA server and the latency is pretty much fine for NA EU and as someone pointed out almost 3 times worse ping wise for KR NA so there is quite a huge difference and there was no alternating servers.
|
Mate, there were roughly 50k people watching the games today. And the amount of people complaining about the cast can be count on one hand...
|
I don't think the casters are biased.
What Chill implies by saying that the foreigners are "catching up" is that the koreans are better. He's not embarrassing the koreans in any way. He's acknowledging the fact that they are good and very skillful.
I also agree with Holy Arrow. It would be better if Chill and Husky would acknowledge that there is lag. In key situations, if there is lag, and the casters dismiss it, to the community, it would show that the casters aren't knowledgeable enough to recognize it.
|
On March 27 2011 09:26 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 09:24 Rokk wrote:
I don't understand how this is unprofessional. One of the biggest draws of the TSL3 is that it's the best Korean players against the best foreigners. How is pointing this out during your casts unprofessional? But most of these guys that were knocked out are not performing well in TSL or performing well in GSL recently.
Well, the same thing can be said about the foreigners as well. The guys that won haven't really dominated the gsl lately ;-)
|
On March 27 2011 09:28 ore0z wrote:
I don't think the casters are biased.
What Chill implies by saying that the foreigners are "catching up" is that the koreans are better. He's not embarrassing the koreans in any way. He's acknowledging the fact that they are good and very skillful.
I also agree with Holy Arrow. It would be better if Chill and Husky would acknowledge that there is lag. In key situations, if there is lag, and the casters dismiss it, to the community, it would show that the casters aren't knowledgeable enough to recognize it.
the only problem with focusing on the lag is that (1) they dont know what actual lag occurred and how it affected the play (although im sure it exists), and (2) why focus on negative things in a cast? its well known that there are lag issues. further, by focusing on lag you greatly diminish the foreigners' win, which would cause fifteen additional threads like this on tl.net
|
On March 27 2011 09:04 Nayl wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 09:01 dAPhREAk wrote:
what is wrong with the casters creating a rivalry between koreans and foreigners? it makes it more enjoyable and intense even though the players themselves may not think of it as a rivalry. its not like they were completely biased in favor of foreigners. a lot of korean players are hyped a lot and people want to see them play. also, there is a korean stream for TSL. are you saying that they shouldn't hype for korean players? seems a little ridiculous to me. just reporting whats happening on the stream is kinda boring. hype the players, create some rivalries and make the streams entertaining. Because it makes Korean viewers irritated when watching TSL. (as well as people like OP) It's not just watched by people in NA/EU.
If I recall, Koreans have a dedicated caster(Gisado?) for this TSL. I suppose Koreans could tune in to the English stream as well.
Personally, it's not so much the cast but the reaction from the TL community. Koreans playing with a latency disadvantage(to what extent is debatable but a disadvantage none the less) in 1 BO3. All of the sudden foreigners are at parity with Koreans? I have no problem if this comes to pass but the results of today's games seem 'impure'.
TSL is entertaining but I don't hold it as a legitimate measure of skill between 2 people. Will have to wait for more LAN events before coming to any conclusions.
|
On March 27 2011 09:23 phoney wrote:
The Koreans start playing their matches at 3.00AM or later so I'm wondering if that would have make any sort of difference to their game-play.
The matches arent live they are casted from replays.
|
hmm...
I'm impressed by whole TSL3 so far.
Games are just mind blowing. Casters are doing FINE job. I hope you do understand that if you want to entertain others you HAVE to use a joke or two. Being so sensitive and intolerant is not good on the internet or real life.
If anything we should give a big applause to whole TL staff for organising such awesome tournament.
gj TL!
|
Anyone new to the SC scene wouldn't understand why Chill was so excited about foreigners being on par with Koreans. Thats why most people who are agreeing with the OP joined when SC2 came out.
Casting today was fantastic and to the people saying they should point out the lag in the game, please stop being retarded.
|
On March 27 2011 09:24 silentsaint wrote:
It's pretty much like that in every sport if the underdog is winning.
Just imagine the first time that Japan did not win the gold medal in judo.
It was a really big deal and pretty much the closing of the skill gap was the main topic that followed the poor winner the next months.
This is exactly what other sports does NOT have. Commentators do what they are supposed to do, commentate the game and what is happening. Leave the hype to pre-shows and discussions after of before the game.
|
On March 27 2011 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 09:21 cheesemaster wrote:
I agree it was quite unproffesional casters should set aside their biases at least until after the match is over and just cast the game as is, i love chill as a commentator and he did fine in the other games he casted last weekend but today seemed like overkill. you know, by calling the casters (and tl.net by proxy) "unprofessional" you are insulting them for using their free time to entertain you at no cost to you. people should give a little more respect to the people who created this website and offer content at no cost. you can state your opinions on what you like and dont like, but mud flinging is really not necessary. what exactly have you provided to the community?
He is not offending TL or Chill for that matter. He is stating his opinion in a thread so that we may have an open discussion.
You sir, are not contributing in any way way, shape or form to this thread.
Keep to the topic.
|
There was nothing wrong with the commentary.
The skill gap seemed to dissapear after an hour of Chill talking exclusively about how the foreigners are finally almost, if not as good as the koreans. Every single move, every single engagement, every single match and the reflections made based on the outcome was focuced on the korean players nationality.
Obviously, we watched different channels... Your description is not only ridiculously exaggerated but you also fail to realize how huge the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans in bw was - the reason why casters even mention nationalities during casting. Thus it's completely understandable that after every game the commentators will address the fact that a foreigner had a nice performance against a Korean.
In addition, the talk about "Koreans vs foreigners" is not that much about nationality, as it is about the fact that on the one side there is a player that lives in a team house with a sc2 couch, practices 10 hours a day and does absolutely nothing else in contrast to the player on the other side who leads a "normal" life and for whom sc2 is just a passion.
The games today are not a proof that foreigners are as good as Koreans, but they still show that foreigners can stand on a somewhat equal footing with Koreans.
I can imagine that lag might have been beneficial for the foreigners, but i cannot be sure, and neither can the other people in this thread. Not to mention that if the casters were speculating/talking about lag it would have been extremely unprofessional.
|
On March 27 2011 09:31 fds wrote:hmm... I'm impressed by whole TSL3 so far. Games are just mind blowing. Casters are doing FINE job. I hope you do understand that if you want to entertain others you HAVE to use a joke or two. Being so sensitive and intolerant is not good on the internet or real life. If anything we should give a big applause to whole TL staff for organising such awesome tournament. gj TL!
I gave them props in my post. For the fifth time, you can have hype and all that, but to some extend. Stop. I am not sensitive at all. This is an issue I feel needs to be adressed. I am not by any means emotionally involved or offended by the cast.
|
On March 27 2011 09:49 zJayy962 wrote:
Anyone new to the SC scene wouldn't understand why Chill was so excited about foreigners being on par with Koreans. Thats why most people who are agreeing with the OP joined when SC2 came out.
Casting today was fantastic and to the people saying they should point out the lag in the game, please stop being retarded.
How long you, or Chill for that matter have been playing SC is irrelevevant, I do not care. Turning the cast into a huge story about how the gap had more or less dissapeared and thus not commentating the game as a objective caster, is wrong.
|
I think you need to Chill out.
|
On March 27 2011 09:56 ggrrg wrote:There was nothing wrong with the commentary. Show nested quote +
The skill gap seemed to dissapear after an hour of Chill talking exclusively about how the foreigners are finally almost, if not as good as the koreans. Every single move, every single engagement, every single match and the reflections made based on the outcome was focuced on the korean players nationality.
Obviously, we watched different channels... Your description is not only ridiculously exaggerated but you also fail to realize how huge the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans in bw was - the reason why casters even mention nationalities during casting. Thus it's completely understandable that after every game the commentators will address the fact that a foreigner had a nice performance against a Korean. In addition, the talk about "Koreans vs foreigners" is not that much about nationality, as it is about the fact that on the one side there is a player that lives in a team house with a sc2 couch, practices 10 hours a day and does absolutely nothing else in contrast to the player on the other side who leads a "normal" life and for whom sc2 is just a passion. The games today are not a proof that foreigners are as good as Koreans, but they still show that foreigners can stand on a somewhat equal footing with Koreans. I can imagine that lag might have been beneficial for the foreigners, but i cannot be sure, and neither can the other people in this thread. Not to mention that if the casters were speculating/talking about lag it would have been extremely unprofessional.
This is not BW. I do not care how long you have been watching SC:BW or how emotionally attached you are to the struggle foreigners have had vs koreans. This is SC2, it is to proffesional players that are to be treated objectively by a commentator.
|
You're entitled to your opinion, but I think it's sort of a bullshit one.
For the FIRST time, we see foreigners successfully competing with Koreans, something that has not happened since 2001, and you expect that to NOT be the key topic of discussion? These games were bigger than the games themselves, they expanded on the tapestry of E-sports and starcraft history enormously, and you expected them to not flip out over that?
I feel like I'm missing why any of that is a bad thing.
|
The casters are just doing their job, which is to inform and entertain, and it was entertaining. Today was the best day so far IMO.
I'm not sure why you wrote such a long, dramatic post full of exaggerations about this. I guess it's cool that people have such high expectations for everything StarCraft related that they expect every word Chill says to be exactly what they imagined. I guess it just means people really love StarCraft... I guess?
|
On March 27 2011 09:55 eoLithic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 27 2011 09:21 cheesemaster wrote:
I agree it was quite unproffesional casters should set aside their biases at least until after the match is over and just cast the game as is, i love chill as a commentator and he did fine in the other games he casted last weekend but today seemed like overkill. you know, by calling the casters (and tl.net by proxy) "unprofessional" you are insulting them for using their free time to entertain you at no cost to you. people should give a little more respect to the people who created this website and offer content at no cost. you can state your opinions on what you like and dont like, but mud flinging is really not necessary. what exactly have you provided to the community? He is not offending TL or Chill for that matter. He is stating his opinion in a thread so that we may have an open discussion. You sir, are not contributing in any way way, shape or form to this thread. Keep to the topic.
thanks for the laugh. calling someone unprofessional is offensive. especially considering all the time they have dedicated to the scene, and so little people who have insulted them have contributed. i have stated my opinions on the thread. just because you disagree does not mean i am not contributing in any "way, shape or form." lol.
|
Anyone that reached the gold level and saw games today would realize that there were issues in terms of game play. I think most people on this forum are at least diamond and have no problem of recognizing that. Sometimes during the game, I thought I could have done a better job of playing than MVP.
|
On March 27 2011 10:05 Kimaker wrote:
For the FIRST time, we see foreigners successfully competing with Koreans...
What about Jinro and Idra in past GSLs?
On March 27 2011 10:07 dAPhREAk wrote:
... calling someone unprofessional is offensive...
Calling someone unprofessional need not necessarily be offensive. After all, what if someone actually is unprofessional?
|
On March 27 2011 10:07 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 09:55 eoLithic wrote:On March 27 2011 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 27 2011 09:21 cheesemaster wrote:
I agree it was quite unproffesional casters should set aside their biases at least until after the match is over and just cast the game as is, i love chill as a commentator and he did fine in the other games he casted last weekend but today seemed like overkill. you know, by calling the casters (and tl.net by proxy) "unprofessional" you are insulting them for using their free time to entertain you at no cost to you. people should give a little more respect to the people who created this website and offer content at no cost. you can state your opinions on what you like and dont like, but mud flinging is really not necessary. what exactly have you provided to the community? He is not offending TL or Chill for that matter. He is stating his opinion in a thread so that we may have an open discussion. You sir, are not contributing in any way way, shape or form to this thread. Keep to the topic. thanks for the laugh. calling someone unprofessional is offensive. especially considering all the time they have dedicated to the scene, and so little people who have insulted them have contributed. i have stated my opinions on the thread. just because you disagree does not mean i am not contributing in any "way, shape or form." lol.
Chill is a fucking awesome guy and commentator, BUT...(b.u.t) tonight I feel that he came off abit unproffesional. Giving critisicm to someone is actually an attempt to help.
|
On March 27 2011 10:09 BasilPesto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 10:05 Kimaker wrote:
For the FIRST time, we see foreigners successfully competing with Koreans... What about Jinro and Idra in past GSLs?
Two in a group of 60 doesn't count.
It is a big deal. This is in my opinion, the most revolutionary tournament of all time in SC2
|
On March 27 2011 10:09 BasilPesto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 10:05 Kimaker wrote:
For the FIRST time, we see foreigners successfully competing with Koreans... What about Jinro and Idra in past GSLs?
Couldn't really count that as the whole foreigner scene being on parity with the Koreans since:
A) They were over in Korea, under a Korean regiment.
B) Two players, who we know are already good, could be an aberration.
It's more about the two scenes, as opposed to the specific players. No one has ever claimed it's impossible for a foreigner to win, just that the foreigner scene was not as conducive to producing powerful players.
Also, go look at BW history, and tell me otherwise. If you've followed long enough, you'll understand the significance of this. Only time I freaked out more was when White-ra beat Boxer at ISL (was it? or IEM? O_o?)
|
I think going "Oh...I do not think they should have won. It was most likely lag!" Seems a bit unprofessional.
|
On March 27 2011 08:07 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:06 duck.fit wrote:
I watched all the matches and didn't get that impression, but the games were really interesting so maybe I wasn't paying full attention They said something along the lines of "foreigners really showing they can compete with the koreans now" every 5 minutes or so. Doesn't really bother me as I know it's false but whatever.
how is that false? You cannot take away from them.... They won there games clearly they can compete... look at code s and GSL and the foreigners that have represented there.... Now look at broodwar...... Yea.. i would say it is alot better now
|
On March 27 2011 10:10 eoLithic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 10:07 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 27 2011 09:55 eoLithic wrote:On March 27 2011 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 27 2011 09:21 cheesemaster wrote:
I agree it was quite unproffesional casters should set aside their biases at least until after the match is over and just cast the game as is, i love chill as a commentator and he did fine in the other games he casted last weekend but today seemed like overkill. you know, by calling the casters (and tl.net by proxy) "unprofessional" you are insulting them for using their free time to entertain you at no cost to you. people should give a little more respect to the people who created this website and offer content at no cost. you can state your opinions on what you like and dont like, but mud flinging is really not necessary. what exactly have you provided to the community? He is not offending TL or Chill for that matter. He is stating his opinion in a thread so that we may have an open discussion. You sir, are not contributing in any way way, shape or form to this thread. Keep to the topic. thanks for the laugh. calling someone unprofessional is offensive. especially considering all the time they have dedicated to the scene, and so little people who have insulted them have contributed. i have stated my opinions on the thread. just because you disagree does not mean i am not contributing in any "way, shape or form." lol. Chill is a fucking awesome guy and commentator, BUT...(b.u.t) tonight I feel that he came off abit unproffesional. Giving critisicm to someone is actually an attempt to help.
there is constructive criticism and then there is just insulting other people. i wasn't referring to your post anyways. i was referring to the other guy's. not sure why you responded.
also, saying someone is awesome but unprofessional, doesnt exactly warm the heart, does it?
|
On March 27 2011 10:09 BasilPesto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 10:05 Kimaker wrote:
For the FIRST time, we see foreigners successfully competing with Koreans... What about Jinro and Idra in past GSLs? Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 10:07 dAPhREAk wrote:
... calling someone unprofessional is offensive... Calling someone unprofessional need not necessarily be offensive. After all, what if someone actually is unprofessional?
calling an idiot "idiot" is still offensive whether it is true or not. whats your point?
|
On March 27 2011 10:11 Skillz_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 10:09 BasilPesto wrote:On March 27 2011 10:05 Kimaker wrote:
For the FIRST time, we see foreigners successfully competing with Koreans... What about Jinro and Idra in past GSLs? Two in a group of 60 doesn't count.
I would think that's highly overlooking Idra and Jinro's talents and achievements then. It's like "Yeah, you're a foreigner, but you could just be a fluke, so we'll dismiss you two."
On March 27 2011 10:13 Kimaker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 10:09 BasilPesto wrote:On March 27 2011 10:05 Kimaker wrote:
For the FIRST time, we see foreigners successfully competing with Koreans... What about Jinro and Idra in past GSLs? Couldn't really count that as the whole foreigner scene being on parity with the Koreans since: A) They were over in Korea, under a Korean regiment. B) Two players, who we know are already good, could be an aberration. It's more about the two scenes, as opposed to the specific players. No one has ever claimed it's impossible for a foreigner to win, just that the foreigner scene was not as conducive to producing powerful players. Also, go look at BW history, and tell me otherwise. If you've followed long enough, you'll understand the significance of this. Only time I freaked out more was when White-ra beat Boxer at ISL (was it? or IEM? O_o?)
You never mentioned "foreigner scene", you said "For the FIRST time, we see foreigners succesfully competing with Koreans". Going by that, and given that Jinro and Idra are "foreigners", I'd say your statement was incorrect.
As for them two being "aberrations", again, that's highly dismissive of their consistently high talent/skill and achievements.
|
If you want Esports to take off in the US and around the world, commentating like that is the best thing you can ask for. Watching a great game of Starcraft is awesome, but watching a great game of Starcraft that has a "story" behind it is even better. It gives us someone to root for, and makes it feel like the foreigners are the underdogs(which they mostly are) and makes it that much better when they pull off wins, especially in teh fashion they did it today.
I got a few of my friends to watch the TSL cast today, none of which had ever watched any casts before, and one of whom isn't really even interested in gaming. Without the excitement of the commentators and the David vs Goliath type feel of it, i have no doubt that they wouldn't care to watch anymore. But guess what? They'll all be watching tommorow, too.
If you're a fan of eSports you'll want more casts like that.
|
Chill and Husky were even better this week than last week. Probably has something to do with the very high quality of games. Personally, I like the suspense that they were creating. When ~97% of us picked MvP and NesTea in the brackets, it's hard not to go crazy when so many people are proven absolutely wrong.
|
On March 27 2011 10:19 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 10:09 BasilPesto wrote:On March 27 2011 10:05 Kimaker wrote:
For the FIRST time, we see foreigners successfully competing with Koreans... What about Jinro and Idra in past GSLs? On March 27 2011 10:07 dAPhREAk wrote:
... calling someone unprofessional is offensive... Calling someone unprofessional need not necessarily be offensive. After all, what if someone actually is unprofessional? calling an idiot "idiot" is still offensive whether it is true or not. whats your point?
Well, I can see what your point is. You're saying that because feelings can get hurt, we should refrain from all criticism, whether someone is "unprofessional", "immoral", "incomphensible", etc. Because afterall, said person puts in a lot of time and dedication, so they should be protected at all costs.
My point is that criticism can be fair game. I'm not even sure how valid the criticism is in this case, but the OP has approached it reasonably--it's not a blatant troll, is it?
|
On March 27 2011 09:18 eoLithic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 09:16 aFganFlyTrap wrote:On March 27 2011 08:16 Tyree wrote:
Why is there always 5-6 topics after every TSL/GSL about something that is "wrong?"
Why do we always get stuff like this:
"Forcefields, biggest problem in PvZ?"
"SC2 will die unless Stim is fixed?"
"Chill, trying to start a all out war between Foreigners vs Koreans?"
"Mech, wrong way to play the game?"
"Day9 coughed during casting, death of E-Sports?"
"Top 10 reasons why SOTG will destroy SC2 and TL.net"
etc etc
All these topics seem to me to be trying to create drama out of thin air, is it sophisticated trolling or just people nitpicking at everything?
i couldnt agree more. it seems people are not thinking before making a thread and just making pointless drama. Was it me or Chill, that made pointless drama tonight? This is an issue that I think needs to be adressed. One liners like your reply doesn`t add up to anything in this thread. Why accusing someone of trolling, when just stating their opinions? Keep it focused on the topic and not on what you think I am trying to do.
i did not call you a troll at all. I also dont have to write a ridiculous wall of text to get my point accross either. this entire thread is incredibly presumptious with a tinge of hubris. the TSL cast today was neither controversial nor unprofessional. next melodramatic thread please!
|
On March 27 2011 10:23 BasilPesto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 10:19 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 27 2011 10:09 BasilPesto wrote:On March 27 2011 10:05 Kimaker wrote:
For the FIRST time, we see foreigners successfully competing with Koreans... What about Jinro and Idra in past GSLs? On March 27 2011 10:07 dAPhREAk wrote:
... calling someone unprofessional is offensive... Calling someone unprofessional need not necessarily be offensive. After all, what if someone actually is unprofessional? calling an idiot "idiot" is still offensive whether it is true or not. whats your point? Well, I can see what your point is. You're saying that because feelings can get hurt, we should refrain from all criticism, whether someone is "unprofessional", "immoral", "incomphensible", etc. Because afterall, said person puts in a lot of time and dedication, so they should be protected at all costs. My point is that criticism can be fair game. I'm not even sure how valid the criticism is in this case, but the OP has approached it reasonably--it's not an obvious troll, is it?
the only point i was trying to make was that tl.net, chill, husky and a multitude of other people have contributed a lot of time and sweat into making the TSL. months have been dedicated to it. and then, in a post that took exactly 15 seconds, a poster insulted them by referring to them as unprofessional (i wasnt referring to the op if you look at my quote), which by any stretch of the imagination they were not. one of the things that lacks in some of these forums is respect. you can criticize what they do, but dont resort to name calling, especially calling them unprofessional when they have done a lot to make this one of the BEST tournaments in the foreign scene.
|
I agree, it definitely felt as whether indirect or not, that the casters are making the korean players as being the villains, when it should be about player skill and that only.
|
I'm guessing the OP hasn't watched many sports because what you deem unprofessional is actually the absolute norm in pro sports commentating. Any time there is an underdog (whether a big underdog, or just a perceived one) the commentators will make that the story of the match/game whatever. That's because it's compelling, and it's their JOB to give us this story, and make the match more exciting by playing this aspect up.
A great example is when Team USA plays any other team in basketball. The major story that keeps being repeated is how USA shouldn't be losing to anyone, and every loss is magnified by that fact. It makes every game exciting, even though it's a fact that the world is catching up to the USA in ball. Another example is USA hockey team beating Russia (Soviet Union at the time) in the Olympics 3 decades ago. That story is constantly brought up in American sports because it was one of the biggest stories ever. I don't understand your criticism at all because this kind of commentating is a staple and even a backbone of all international sports. I could go on all day listing examples...
|
Oh good, we found something else to complain about <3
I can't say it bothered me at all, I'm willing to bet it's what went through the minds of a lot of people, I'd expect the Koreans to focus on it as well from the other end. And it actually is kind of exciting the foreigners didn't get run over I feel. The casters are first and foremost fans too, which is the whole reason they're strutting their awesome stuff for us, so I can't blame them too much for getting into it.
Besides, what's a professional SC2 caster anyways, you've seen Tastosis (who I absolutely love) right? It's also a bit about catering to your audience. And as such, now they know it bothered people they can take it into consideration, so that's good I guess. Wouldn't call it unprofessional though.
|
On March 27 2011 10:28 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 10:23 BasilPesto wrote:On March 27 2011 10:19 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 27 2011 10:09 BasilPesto wrote:On March 27 2011 10:05 Kimaker wrote:
For the FIRST time, we see foreigners successfully competing with Koreans... What about Jinro and Idra in past GSLs? On March 27 2011 10:07 dAPhREAk wrote:
... calling someone unprofessional is offensive... Calling someone unprofessional need not necessarily be offensive. After all, what if someone actually is unprofessional? calling an idiot "idiot" is still offensive whether it is true or not. whats your point? Well, I can see what your point is. You're saying that because feelings can get hurt, we should refrain from all criticism, whether someone is "unprofessional", "immoral", "incomphensible", etc. Because afterall, said person puts in a lot of time and dedication, so they should be protected at all costs. My point is that criticism can be fair game. I'm not even sure how valid the criticism is in this case, but the OP has approached it reasonably--it's not an obvious troll, is it? the only point i was trying to make was that tl.net, chill, husky and a multitude of other people have contributed a lot of time and sweat into making the TSL. months have been dedicated to it. and then, in a post that took exactly 15 seconds, a poster insulted them by referring to them as unprofessional (i wasnt referring to the op if you look at my quote), which by any stretch of the imagination they were not. one of the things that lacks in some of these forums is respect. you can criticize what they do, but dont resort to name calling, especially calling them unprofessional when they have done a lot to make this one of the BEST tournaments in the foreign scene.
Given the OP has mentioned unprofessional conduct, wouldn't your point apply to them as well? Is calling someone "unprofessional" an insult in some cases and not others? Is there any scenario where one's professionalism can be questioned then?
I don't think calling someone unprofessional is name calling. Name calling is often baseless. Judging by the content of this thread, you'd think being called "unprofessional" would be somewhat related to the professional conduct of whoever.
As for your other points, while respect is always nice, this stuff happens in the real world, with sports. I figure, if the SC2 community wants to become an e-sport, it has to face the same types of problems that sports deals with.
|
On March 27 2011 10:37 BasilPesto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 10:28 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 27 2011 10:23 BasilPesto wrote:On March 27 2011 10:19 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 27 2011 10:09 BasilPesto wrote:On March 27 2011 10:05 Kimaker wrote:
For the FIRST time, we see foreigners successfully competing with Koreans... What about Jinro and Idra in past GSLs? On March 27 2011 10:07 dAPhREAk wrote:
... calling someone unprofessional is offensive... Calling someone unprofessional need not necessarily be offensive. After all, what if someone actually is unprofessional? calling an idiot "idiot" is still offensive whether it is true or not. whats your point? Well, I can see what your point is. You're saying that because feelings can get hurt, we should refrain from all criticism, whether someone is "unprofessional", "immoral", "incomphensible", etc. Because afterall, said person puts in a lot of time and dedication, so they should be protected at all costs. My point is that criticism can be fair game. I'm not even sure how valid the criticism is in this case, but the OP has approached it reasonably--it's not an obvious troll, is it? the only point i was trying to make was that tl.net, chill, husky and a multitude of other people have contributed a lot of time and sweat into making the TSL. months have been dedicated to it. and then, in a post that took exactly 15 seconds, a poster insulted them by referring to them as unprofessional (i wasnt referring to the op if you look at my quote), which by any stretch of the imagination they were not. one of the things that lacks in some of these forums is respect. you can criticize what they do, but dont resort to name calling, especially calling them unprofessional when they have done a lot to make this one of the BEST tournaments in the foreign scene. Given the OP has mentioned unprofessional conduct, wouldn't your point apply to them as well? Is calling someone "unprofessional" an insult in some cases and not others? Is there any scenario where one's professionalism can be questioned then? I don't think calling someone unprofessional is name calling. Name calling is often baseless. Judging by the content of this thread, you'd think being called "unprofessional" would be somewhat related to the professional conduct of whoever. As for your other points, while respect is always nice, this stuff happens in the real world, with sports. I figure, if the SC2 community wants to become an e-sport, it has to face the same types of problems that sports deals with.
sigh. when someone spends a considerable amount of time doing something, you should err on the side of not insulting them without basis. the op wrote a lengthy post to which i was not referring. i was referring to someone else's post.
|
they probably sounded bias cuz of their experience following the broodwar scene where that was the case.
i thought husky and chill did a competent job today, wasn't distracting or unwatchable in anyway. if it was for you, use the mute button.
|
I liked the commentating. One match I went against my brotoss values and rooted for the american to win.
|
On March 27 2011 08:10 zerious wrote:
Agreed, it sounded like I was watching a WWE match and the Koreans were the jobbers.
lol, this is exactly what it sounded like. Good games though. Day9 does this too during a foreigner v Korean match, eg. thorzain v fruitdealer. Whatever though, Koreans did play like jobbers, commentators loved it. Husky was probably the best at keeping it exciting without the whole take down Korea vibe. However, it was the first time alot of Korea's best lost to foreigners. Hopefully we get Tyler v MC. Tyler seems to have a good grasp of MC's weaknesses.
|
Day9 coughed during casting, death of E-Sports?
Awesome, simply.
Where in tl would you be allowed to open a thread with this title as deliberate comic relief?
|
On March 27 2011 10:03 eoLithic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 09:56 ggrrg wrote:There was nothing wrong with the commentary.
The skill gap seemed to dissapear after an hour of Chill talking exclusively about how the foreigners are finally almost, if not as good as the koreans. Every single move, every single engagement, every single match and the reflections made based on the outcome was focuced on the korean players nationality.
Obviously, we watched different channels... Your description is not only ridiculously exaggerated but you also fail to realize how huge the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans in bw was - the reason why casters even mention nationalities during casting. Thus it's completely understandable that after every game the commentators will address the fact that a foreigner had a nice performance against a Korean. In addition, the talk about "Koreans vs foreigners" is not that much about nationality, as it is about the fact that on the one side there is a player that lives in a team house with a sc2 couch, practices 10 hours a day and does absolutely nothing else in contrast to the player on the other side who leads a "normal" life and for whom sc2 is just a passion. The games today are not a proof that foreigners are as good as Koreans, but they still show that foreigners can stand on a somewhat equal footing with Koreans. I can imagine that lag might have been beneficial for the foreigners, but i cannot be sure, and neither can the other people in this thread. Not to mention that if the casters were speculating/talking about lag it would have been extremely unprofessional. This is not BW. I do not care how long you have been watching SC:BW or how emotionally attached you are to the struggle foreigners have had vs koreans. This is SC2, it is to proffesional players that are to be treated objectively by a commentator.
You do realize that the practice conditions still hold true, do you?
How's that not worth mentioning?
You do realize that you statement is ridiculously exaggerated, do you?
By no means did Chill talk excessively (and even less so exclusively) "about how the foreigners are finally almost, if not as good as the koreans".
Today's games might not have provided a clear evidence about how good foreigners are compared to Koreans, but they certainly provided a basis for speculating on the matter. Foreigners and Koreans rarely play together in one tournament, why shouldn't casters assess their performance on the rare occasions they do?
|
Chill's being a homer. Nothing wrong with that. I imagine Gisado or whoever's doing the korean rebroadcast is the same - it's more entertaining for their respective audiences, and keeps the hype train rolling for the future rounds. If he exaggerates a bit or makes somewhat sweeping generalizations, if you know better, who cares? It amps the excitement by creating an underdog triumphing story for the tens of thousands who aren't as familiar with all the players, and the exaggeration is a hallmark of the best broadcasters - artosis, tasteless, day9, and to a lesser extent incontrol, all add to the interest-level of the games by creating storylines beyond just the play-by-play.
|
The OP is being needlessly sensitive about passing comments Chill made. I myself did not once stop and think "Chill is being unprofessional," and judging from the community response in this thread most people would agree with me. I find it wholly unnecessary to create drama out of thin air, especially over what has been a fantastically commentated tournament.
On a side note -and I may just be arguing semantics- not all the players in this tournament are actually professionals; some are high-level amateurs.
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
By professional do you mean boring? If you are smart enough to form your own opinions as far as favorite players then it shouldn't matter what casters say.
|
On March 27 2011 10:19 BasilPesto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 10:11 Skillz_Man wrote:On March 27 2011 10:09 BasilPesto wrote:On March 27 2011 10:05 Kimaker wrote:
For the FIRST time, we see foreigners successfully competing with Koreans... What about Jinro and Idra in past GSLs? Two in a group of 60 doesn't count. I would think that's highly overlooking Idra and Jinro's talents and achievements then. It's like "Yeah, you're a foreigner, but you could just be a fluke, so we'll dismiss you two." Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 10:13 Kimaker wrote:On March 27 2011 10:09 BasilPesto wrote:On March 27 2011 10:05 Kimaker wrote:
For the FIRST time, we see foreigners successfully competing with Koreans... What about Jinro and Idra in past GSLs? Couldn't really count that as the whole foreigner scene being on parity with the Koreans since: A) They were over in Korea, under a Korean regiment. B) Two players, who we know are already good, could be an aberration. It's more about the two scenes, as opposed to the specific players. No one has ever claimed it's impossible for a foreigner to win, just that the foreigner scene was not as conducive to producing powerful players. Also, go look at BW history, and tell me otherwise. If you've followed long enough, you'll understand the significance of this. Only time I freaked out more was when White-ra beat Boxer at ISL (was it? or IEM? O_o?) You never mentioned "foreigner scene", you said "For the FIRST time, we see foreigners succesfully competing with Koreans". Going by that, and given that Jinro and Idra are "foreigners", I'd say your statement was incorrect. As for them two being "aberrations", again, that's highly dismissive of their consistently high talent/skill and achievements.
I guess if you feel like nit picking then sure. Whatever.
|
Cmon Kennigit really?? I hardly think the way Day 9 and JP for example cast during MLG or even DJ Wheat is boring. They don't use words like "dick" to describe a player or show favoritism. It's all good though I'm not saying they need to emulate those casters or everyone needs to be like them, but in the end you can still be professional and not "boring"
|
Well, I had a somewhat similar opinion to the OP. It didn't really bother me as I don't care who wins as long as we get good matches and commentary and we did.
Still, it was a bit too much at times. After IEM people over stated the skill gap and now people will do/are doing the opposite to be honest.
I don't think it was unprofessional and I don't think they laid down any personal attacks on the Koreans...to me they simply took too much out of a few results and it seems like a premature celebration that the skill cap is eliminated. That's what bothered me. Chill is a smart guy (I think  ), so I imagine he knows that a few matches in what is undeniably unfamiliar situations for the Korean player don't mean that much.
A few others, Jinro in particular, have done a good job of pointing out the differences in playing with a small delay vs no delay. Not that big unless you've never practiced with it. Here, I have to agree with Chill's commentary in that I doubt they practiced much for this particular situation.
I may be wrong, but I think the skill gap is still there and will be for a while to come. That doesn't mean that no foreigners are as good as Koreans or that no foreigner will win international tournaments if Koreans participate; it just means that the overall skill level is, in my opinion, slightly higher in Korea.
Overall, I don't think this deserves a massive post.
TL:DR : Just go easier on the extrapolation of these results for the future.
|
Calgary25979 Posts
What the fuck are you talking about?
I don't understand what prompted you to make this thread. I said something you didn't like in the four and a half hours we were casting? Great. What's the point of this thread?
LOL and this thread is 8 pages? fml
|
I was watching and it didn't distract me - and I am Korean =P Mostly, it didn't distract me because the whole time I was getting excited right along with Chill at how well the foreigners were holding there own against the Koreans. I missed the MVP/Adelscott matches, but QXC (you might have heard of him) and Genius was some phenomenal play on QXCs part.
I remain silent on Goody's play because I'm still trying to figure out what happened.
I don't know that it detracts from the professionalism because really, going into the TSL so many people were talking about how the Koreans were going to take the whole thing down... etc.
Instead, what we're seeing is foreigners going toe to toe as far as taking down big international tournmanets are concerned. As an example - the Koreans dominated at IEM, but are not doing so well with the TSL. There may be a numerous number of explanations, but it's still exciting nonetheless.
What is left to be seen is once LAN mode is released, whether foreigners and Koreans will still hold toe to toe. I think that the answer is yes.
|
On March 27 2011 12:11 Chill wrote:
What the fuck are you talking about?
I don't understand what prompted you to make this thread. I said something you didn't like in the four and a half hours we were casting? Great. What's the point of this thread?
LOL and this thread is 8 pages? fml
but what you said was unprofessional //sarcasm
|
My take on the whole situation is, No one believed since Grr.... won back in 2000, that any foreigner could ever win a tournament from the koreans, and very rarely did we even take games off of Koreans. Koreans have been on the fast track to becoming dominant in SC2 by setting up teams houses, etc. Koreans are the Lakers of the Stacraft world, and Foreigners are like the guys in a park playing a pick-up, half-court 3v3. Any competitive gamer with a starcraft background knows that.
Foreigners, who are largely the underdogs in this tournament, Dominating 3 of the BEST players that korea had to offer, is something so drastically different from what the BW veterans are used to and will get excited about.
Edit:
BTW, it just goes to show that no matter what Chill does, someone is there to hate upon him.
^_^
|
Calgary25979 Posts
|
Nationality plays a big role in our sport. In eSports there is a tremendous amount of Korean pride. They know they are expected to win against foreigners and if they don't, it is a huge disappointment to them. That pride works both ways. For us non-Koreans to see one of our own beat a Korean gives us a sense of pride and something to believe in. It isn't disrespectful or hurtful, but the casters obviously felt this pride. I don't see anything wrong with that. To me it doesn't seem unprofessional.
|
On March 27 2011 12:11 Chill wrote:
What the fuck are you talking about?
I don't understand what prompted you to make this thread. I said something you didn't like in the four and a half hours we were casting? Great. What's the point of this thread?
LOL and this thread is 8 pages? fml
what would sponsors think if they heard what you said? you gotta be more professional or else starcraft 2 will never be mainstream. do it for esports chill.
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
|
Calgary25979 Posts
On March 27 2011 13:01 kaisr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 12:11 Chill wrote:
What the fuck are you talking about?
I don't understand what prompted you to make this thread. I said something you didn't like in the four and a half hours we were casting? Great. What's the point of this thread?
LOL and this thread is 8 pages? fml what would sponsors think if they heard what you said? you gotta be more professional or else starcraft 2 will never be mainstream. do it for esports chill.
Sponsors don't speak directly with casters. If the instruction comes, it will come from TL administrators, who will have been pressured by sponsors or viewers. ESPORTS saved.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
