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I'm not sure if any one had the chance to actually browse the study but(tl;dr) it's a trend of 85 countries/regions(secular) and how people find less utility and therefore less interest in religion as time goes on. Whether this is good or not only time will tell.
With that said I think this is a good thing. Organized religion seems to be at odds with how people actually live their lives. In general people try to be logical or at least reasonable however religious beliefs seem to be the opposite of that. Creation beliefs just seem ridiculous when we have such adequate scientific theories and we use them in our every day life.
You can condemn someone for making a terrible argument and trying to support it with false and/or no evidence but you can't call them out for believing in what amounts to a complex fairy tail?
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On March 23 2011 11:00 whiteguycash wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 10:48 Igakusei wrote:On March 23 2011 10:38 whiteguycash wrote:How quaint, an Atheist support group. On March 23 2011 10:38 Consolidate wrote:On March 23 2011 10:32 bumatlarge wrote:
As some one who has been a christian for his entire life, you eventually are going to have to start killing people before you make religion extinct. Whether that is sad to hear or not, it's the truth. You aren't going to be around forever. Religions are just advanced cults. It would be very difficult to eradicated cultist tendencies and behaviors. The best we can do is relegate Christianity to the same category as something like Scientology. Really, with that mindset, why wait at all? I mean, I would assume that you are a naturalist, and doesn't naturalist thinking promote evolutionary standards, up to and including the mind and society? Why wait, when your own school of though encourages eradication of different beliefs? [. . .]Just because we evolved through natural selection doesn't mean that we should continue to use "survival of the fittest" as an excuse to murder or otherwise eradicate our weaker cousins.[. . .] That might be right for you, but thats not right for me. Since we have nothing transcendental past ourselves, our own morals and decisions are relative. For someone championing naturalism, you really need to learn to follow the thoughts and worldviews developed into their logical conclusion. Or I guess you don't. Its all relative anyways.
You don't seem very educated with regard to secular philosophy.
The way things are does not imply how they ought to be. Just because someone's arm is broken doesn't mean it should stay broken, and just because we evolved through natural selection doesn't mean that natural selection is the way we should continue to grow.
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This garbage needs to be closed. Threads like this only serve to divide us as a community and inspire unnecessary hatred among fellow starcraft fans..
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never going to happen. there will always be a place for faith in everyones heart. i would actually say this is impossable. athiest propaganda, they are just trying to get more fanatics to become atheist.
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On March 23 2011 11:01 Asshat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 10:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 23 2011 10:43 Teivospy wrote:
You're also ignorant (and probably 12) if you think religion doesn't do a lot of good to balance out the bad that it does I'm not 12 and I generally don't consider myself ignorant, but could you name a single good thing that religion has done for humanity that couldn't be (or hasn't already been) accomplished by secular means? Morality? No. Happiness? No. Charity? No. Knowledge? No. Technology? No. Medicine? No. Honestly, I don't see a function for religion, other than to act as a defense mechanism (a crutch) for those who need its irrationality. And there exist many other (healthier) alternatives than what religion offers. Feel free to PM me (anyone) if you'd like to delve in to this more though, as I'm sure we don't want to start a flame war!  Standards of morality around the world are deeply ingrained on different religious beliefs. Things have been evolving out of it at varying paces, depending on the region, but they will never be completely separated.
Except morality has been around longer than religion has.
Similarly, non-religious people have no trouble having a moral compass.
Also, secularist governments are able to create constitutions designed to treat their citizens with respect and fairness apart from any religious notions or predispositions.
Therefore, religion can be completely unnecessary if one is looking for morality.
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On March 23 2011 11:00 whiteguycash wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 10:48 Igakusei wrote:On March 23 2011 10:38 whiteguycash wrote:How quaint, an Atheist support group. On March 23 2011 10:38 Consolidate wrote:On March 23 2011 10:32 bumatlarge wrote:
As some one who has been a christian for his entire life, you eventually are going to have to start killing people before you make religion extinct. Whether that is sad to hear or not, it's the truth. You aren't going to be around forever. Religions are just advanced cults. It would be very difficult to eradicated cultist tendencies and behaviors. The best we can do is relegate Christianity to the same category as something like Scientology. Really, with that mindset, why wait at all? I mean, I would assume that you are a naturalist, and doesn't naturalist thinking promote evolutionary standards, up to and including the mind and society? Why wait, when your own school of though encourages eradication of different beliefs? [. . .]Just because we evolved through natural selection doesn't mean that we should continue to use "survival of the fittest" as an excuse to murder or otherwise eradicate our weaker cousins.[. . .] That might be right for you, but thats not right for me. Since we have nothing transcendental past ourselves, our own morals and decisions are relative. For someone championing naturalism, you really need to learn to follow the thoughts and worldviews developed into their logical conclusion. Or I guess you don't. Its all relative anyways.
Naturalism is not the same as eugenics. Just because someone believes in evolution does not mean they think human society should be governed by "survival of the fittest." We can have standards of morality without religion and it's not like there is one standard set of morality even within religions because of various interpretations.
That said I don't agree with the way the OP treated the article, you can think it's good for religion to disappear, but you don't have to gloat.
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On March 23 2011 11:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 10:58 danl9rm wrote:
I'm assuming Christianity is a religion according to this thread.
For religion to completely die out, the gospel would have to be false.
Religion, therefore, will never die. I agree with Statement 1. I agree with Statement 2. I think 3 is a non-sequitur, because... well, the onus is on you to prove the gospel to be true. lol.
I fail to see how premise 1 and 2 lead to that conc. regardless of beliefs.
Best leave issues in logic like this to people like decartes, spinoza or leibniz....
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On March 23 2011 11:04 rei wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 10:54 Warf wrote:On March 23 2011 10:53 rei wrote:
Bad science, making a clam ignoring population size, The 2 highest populated country in this planet India and China weights 10 tons more than Vietnam and Japan if they are trying to make the claim of extinction of religion. This is an example of a research that looks for an pre-determined result, miss representing and miss leading with their data in order to feature the result they wanted. the research was about percentage of the population not the amount % of small population positively suggest the result is religion extinction. % of a large population negative suggest the result is religion extinction. Ignores large population's negative correlation, and make a claim based on the % in the small population that positively supported their claim. Fail at science.
ok you make a research asking everybody in a country what they think about religion
like almost ALL researches they are based upon a small sample of a country and not all people that are living there
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I think if you want this thread to continue on, it needs to be a scholarly discussion since religion is a core belief of many people. If you talk badly/sarcastically about someone's core beliefs, then it's just going to degrade the discussion.
It is interesting though, I thought US would have a higher percentage considering it's on the rise. It's kind of interesting how engraved in our society it is. I suppose that's what happens when a country is founded on religious freedom and, despite "separation of church and state", it's practically built into the top of our political structure. Could you imagine a candidate for President say they don't believe in god?
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On March 23 2011 11:01 actionbastrd wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 10:58 danl9rm wrote:
I'm assuming Christianity is a religion according to this thread.
For religion to completely die out, the gospel would have to be false.
Religion, therefore, will never die. You cant really say that. I mean, there are many small religions. Everyone, and obviously this includes you, THINKS their religion is right? Is any one religion right? Maybe, is it yours? maybe. Can you prove it? no. EVERYONE in the world who has a religious belief thinks their gospel is correct, not false, better than everyone else. And we will all kill over who is right and wrong. Its silly to make a blind statement such as this. There have been plenty of religions that die out because the believers population was killed off completely, not because they all suddenly went oh hey you know what, now i realize this doesnt make sense. Although sometimes i wish people would do that.
Lol, of course he can. This isn't about thinking one belief is right over another, he's referring to the gospel, which is [from] the Bible, which is grounded in historical accuracy, high manuscript counts (e.g. 400 000 partials of the New Testament alone), the shortest time between original and first copy, etc. so yes, he can confidently say that.
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On March 23 2011 10:30 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 10:28 Skillz_Man wrote:
Hmm, I'm not suprised Canada is on that list.
Personally I think it's a good thing, in the modern world I just don't feel it plays such an important role. It will lower religious conflicts and I just believe it's not something necessary anymore.
Crazy to think that 500 years ago religion controlled much of the world - and now it's turning into this. I'm kind of wondering why Canada would be there and not the US with its "separation of church and state". I guess it's more a cultural thing than legal.
Separation of church and state means separation of the government and religion; it doesn't imply anything involving the religion of its people. There are some people who argue that separation of church and state was more specifically aimed at the actual Church, since in Europe at the time the Church and government went hand in hand.
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The OP study is flatout statistical extrapolation, so the conclusion of "extinction" is invalid.
A brief note on "no point to religion" and whatnot: at its very heart, religion is the effort to seek the higher being labeled God(s). Most definitions posit these as omniscient, omnipotent, or simply "beyond." As such, religion ultimately stems from the human phenomenon of the pivotal question: why can humanity imagine something greater than can exist? Why can we think of perfect ideals when by their nature they are unattainable? What does it mean to have a concept of an infinity, of a God? I feel that the question of religion is intrinsically linked to the base philosophical questions of why we can have any normativity and system of values, so its extinction can never really happen.
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On March 23 2011 11:08 Chromyne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 11:01 actionbastrd wrote:On March 23 2011 10:58 danl9rm wrote:
I'm assuming Christianity is a religion according to this thread.
For religion to completely die out, the gospel would have to be false.
Religion, therefore, will never die. You cant really say that. I mean, there are many small religions. Everyone, and obviously this includes you, THINKS their religion is right? Is any one religion right? Maybe, is it yours? maybe. Can you prove it? no. EVERYONE in the world who has a religious belief thinks their gospel is correct, not false, better than everyone else. And we will all kill over who is right and wrong. Its silly to make a blind statement such as this. There have been plenty of religions that die out because the believers population was killed off completely, not because they all suddenly went oh hey you know what, now i realize this doesnt make sense. Although sometimes i wish people would do that. Lol, of course he can. This isn't about thinking one belief is right over another, he's referring to the gospel, which is [from] the Bible, which is grounded in historical accuracy, high manuscript counts (e.g. 400 000 partials of the New Testament alone), the shortest time between original and first copy, etc. so yes, he can confidently say that.
All you told me is that he can prove the bible was written around the time it was said to be written... that doesn't prove anything in it is accurate. And what about the old testament? --; I can write a novel, and in 2k years someone might pick it up and go hey this thing actually happened! Did it? well 2k years from now, who knows.
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On March 23 2011 11:03 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 11:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 23 2011 10:58 danl9rm wrote:
I'm assuming Christianity is a religion according to this thread.
For religion to completely die out, the gospel would have to be false.
Religion, therefore, will never die. I agree with Statement 1. I agree with Statement 2. I think 3 is a non-sequitur, because... well, the onus is on you to prove the gospel to be true. lol. Actually you would have to disprove something to make it false. If something is a commonly held belief then it is considered to be true, when people thought the Earth was the center of the universe... It was a common belief, and had to be disproved.
I don't have to make it false, because something is assumed to be false unless it is proven true. The onus is on any person making an affirmative claim to provide their own evidence. He is making the claim. Therefore, it is his job to defend it, not my job to disprove him.
For example, atheism is the null hypothesis. Any theist claiming that a deity exists must provide evidence for their god. It doesn't matter how many more theists there are than atheists.
Here's another good depiction of it: http://topicagnostic.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/religious_logic.jpg
And another one:
If I told you I could fly, that doesn't mean that I can fly until you disprove it. I have to prove it to you.
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maybe its just me, however, i really don't get these religion/gay threads.
the general trend is:
liberals talk about how religion is too [insert reason] etc etc etc
conservatives talk about how people shouldn't be homosexual due to [insert reason] etc etc etc
honestly, who cares?
i don't care if the person on one side of me is homosexual and completely liberal and on the other side is a conservative bible thumping christian. Why can't people hold their values to themselves and not try to shove them down other's throat. chances are, you're just going to annoy someone and not even convey a coherent and well thought message.
just my thoughts
so in otherwords idc what people do as long as they don't infringe upon my personal liberties.
edit: just so we're clear everything i said applies to everyone but: scientologists, westboro baptist church and i'm sure some other groups i forgot.
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Hurray! "Extinction of religion" is music to my ears.
Religion is truly ridiculous in modern times. People living to 900? Resurrection? The universe is only 8000 years old? To the ears of this generation, it sounds like a terribly written children's book. And yes, the bible is the worst book I've ever read.
These countries are destined for success.
Less war, less quagmired politics, less unwarranted hatred.
Many of the mistakes that America makes are based on biased, religiously-affiliated opinions.
Very good. I'm considering moving to Austrailia now... kangaroos sweeten the deal.
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The problem is not he RELIGION itself, its the christianity which has characterized the common image of religion. Religion is a way different thing than praying to god and sacrificing a cow for god.
Overall its a really unclear and not 100% characterized word. Believing in something is not Religion. For Schleiermacher, one of the most important theologists and philosophists of the protestant church, Religion is the view of the infinite and needs no god, but can have a god. Thats just one example to picture the diversity even within christianity as he accepts even polytheistic religions and natural religions as ways, which can be way more religious than a priest of the protestant church. Another important point of him is that Morals and Science are NOT part of religion.
For Example: When the pope says people shouldnt use condoms, because of religion, he abuses the word religion and puts moral aspects in it, which are NOT religious and have nothin in common with religion => the statement has nothing to do with religion.
So people need to change their image of religion, most importantly those fanatics who try to connect everything they do and dont do with religioues "rules", which are nothing more than moral dogmas
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god is in your soul if anywhere, it's the bloom in the eyes
i'm atheist and wish people who believe in abstract helping figureheads to be able to do so unhindered...
religion extinct? who you kidding, religion will still be around after you've sadly past away...
"religion" is the opium of the masses (someone smarter than us said that)
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On March 23 2011 11:05 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 11:01 hejakev wrote:
This is a slippery slope. You take out religion and next thing you know: gay rights, cures for life-threatening ailment through stem cell research, fewer genocides, less war and terrorism. The human race is going to be so boring afterward :/ When you try to take out religion, you'll be the victim of terrorism, war and genocide. If religion dies, moral code dies with it. After all, why should we forgive if Jesus was wrong? Of course, only in utopia/dystopia will religion completely die. In other words it will never happen.
Why would moral codes die without religion? Please explain that to me because your magical storybook character has nothing to do with why I forgive people.
It's stupid to think otherwise, everyone is different, forgiveness is down to the indivdual and how they were raised, nothing more, nothing less.
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EPT
