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On March 07 2011 01:58 white_horse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 01:28 frodoguy wrote:On March 07 2011 00:33 infinity2k9 wrote:On March 06 2011 23:50 FALAPARK wrote:
Give the guy a break, he gave us so many neat games, lets not hate on him, what he did should be forgotten already, its not like he killed someone....at least that's my opinion, he is one of my best SC memories along with nada boxer and July..
He should transition to sc2 Wtf is wrong with some of you... he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near SC2. His actions threatened the entire existence of proper progaming. Yet you're prepared to just 'give him a break' and forget about it. The whole match fixing business already made 2 teams disband basically, even if Estro was planning to do so anyway it certainly pushed it over the edge.... it's probably put off future sponsors as it is. For such a fragile sport in it's infancy professionally this is a terrible thing to happen. tsk tsk tsk. Its gonna be long explaining this so i will only explain it if you ask me to, if you won't take my word for it. The thing is, the 2 teams disbanded because the korean society is just that superficial. They lack understanding in general, and thats not savior's fault. ...and this is where we can see how Korean culture differs from the west. Here in America you can cheat on your wife (eliot spitzer), run an illegal dogfighting ring (michael vick), launder money (tom delay) and still appear in public. Moral values in America has decreased and people have become more lenient. I guarentee you if these people committed these acts 60 or 70 years ago, Americans would have been super pissed. Americans today don't seem to care if vick or spitzer is on TV. Well in Korea, there is no tolerance for illegal activity and once you get caught, its almost impossible to get trust back, and there is something wrong with that? Savior put a huge dent in the e-sports industry in Korea, he took out so many good players that make the scene that much more exciting and helped two teams disband...and you accuse Korean society of being "superficial"?
Nationalism can do that. Remember, countries with really strong nationalism was like what korea is now. Germany and Japan pre WWII, nationalistic to the extreme, they had zero-tolerance for even the smallest of crimes, and also they were superficial (eg the "white race is superior" belief).
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1019 Posts
um, your comparison is kind of inaccurate. The reason why Korean society is so hardcore against illegal things is not nationalism, its simply because its a more conservative culture than the west and confucian values still affect a lot of aspects of Korean society.
I think that a lot of the backlash to savior is also because a lot of people in the industry held him in high regard and I don't think anyone expected that he would be someone stupid enough to do something illegal like that, and they were extremely disappointed when it was revealed that he was a big part of it.
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On March 07 2011 01:58 white_horse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 01:28 frodoguy wrote:On March 07 2011 00:33 infinity2k9 wrote:On March 06 2011 23:50 FALAPARK wrote:
Give the guy a break, he gave us so many neat games, lets not hate on him, what he did should be forgotten already, its not like he killed someone....at least that's my opinion, he is one of my best SC memories along with nada boxer and July..
He should transition to sc2 Wtf is wrong with some of you... he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near SC2. His actions threatened the entire existence of proper progaming. Yet you're prepared to just 'give him a break' and forget about it. The whole match fixing business already made 2 teams disband basically, even if Estro was planning to do so anyway it certainly pushed it over the edge.... it's probably put off future sponsors as it is. For such a fragile sport in it's infancy professionally this is a terrible thing to happen. tsk tsk tsk. Its gonna be long explaining this so i will only explain it if you ask me to, if you won't take my word for it. The thing is, the 2 teams disbanded because the korean society is just that superficial. They lack understanding in general, and thats not savior's fault. ...and this is where we can see how Korean culture differs from the west. Here in America you can cheat on your wife (eliot spitzer), run an illegal dogfighting ring (michael vick), launder money (tom delay) and still appear in public. Moral values in America has decreased and people have become more lenient. I guarentee you if these people committed these acts 60 or 70 years ago, Americans would have been super pissed. Americans today don't seem to care if vick or spitzer is on TV. Well in Korea, there is no tolerance for illegal activity and once you get caught, its almost impossible to get trust back, and there is something wrong with that? Savior put a huge dent in the e-sports industry in Korea, he took out so many good players that make the scene that much more exciting and helped two teams disband...and you accuse Korean society of being "superficial"?
Yes there is something wrong with that, it takes away the basic human virtue of forgiveness and compassion. Maybe thats why there is a suicide problem in Korea because of this harsh unforgiving mentality.
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On March 07 2011 02:20 white_horse wrote:
um, your comparison is kind of inaccurate. The reason why Korean society is so hardcore against illegal things is not nationalism, its simply because its a more conservative culture than the west and confucian values still affect a lot of aspects of Korean society.
Well they do get reallly sensitive and flaming over stuff that is negative towards their country. But for whatever reason, they are just sensitive to the extreme, like to the extent where it bypasses rationality and thats really all im concerned about. They don't believe in second chances, for whatever the circumstances
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Rough words by the coach.
I would have liked to see savior play, as I have rarely seen him play. I am pretty new to the scene and wouldn't mind seeing the legend in action.
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the coach def went overboard, I mean he's just streaming games over afreeca, its not like thats not allowed o.o
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On March 06 2011 22:16 Hirmu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2011 21:59 T.O.P. wrote:
sAvIOr fighting! I hope he gets a second chance. Ma Je' Yoon shall rise again! All hail the maestro!
Hail!
Savior will be back!
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1019 Posts
On March 07 2011 02:25 frodoguy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 02:20 white_horse wrote:
um, your comparison is kind of inaccurate. The reason why Korean society is so hardcore against illegal things is not nationalism, its simply because its a more conservative culture than the west and confucian values still affect a lot of aspects of Korean society.
Well they do get reallly sensitive and flaming over stuff that is negative towards their country. But for whatever reason, they are just sensitive to the extreme, like to the extent where it bypasses rationality and thats really all im concerned about. They don't believe in second chances, for whatever the circumstances
koreans being sensitive about korea as a country is a totally different issue...to outsiders that wonder why koreans are so defensive about their country, its because koreans suffered a lot in the past because china and japan invaded their country many times and it was through national unity and national defense that helped keep korea exist as a country...so koreans have been always been programmed to respond to any kind of encroachment to their country with fire. I see it as a just social thing; they see criticism of their country as an attack, which is why they are really sensitive to that kind of stuff. You can see similar cases in countries that have been invaded a lot, like ireland or israel.
edit: and about savior, like I said before, I think a lot of the vitriol is not only because of the fact that he illegally set up games but also because no one expected someone like him to do such a thing. You would think a player as great as he was would have a certain level of honesty and morality about him.
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hi. ma jae yoon play. id west mysticism
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On March 07 2011 02:41 Chimpalimp wrote:
Rough words by the coach.
I would have liked to see savior play, as I have rarely seen him play. I am pretty new to the scene and wouldn't mind seeing the legend in action.
i wouldn't mind either, since i've never seen a live game from him
shame he never contributed anything or played good for the post-2007 of his career
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oh savior, i saw this thread and hoped and prayed that you were playing again and will someday be allowed to return. I still believe in you!
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Actually, I think child molesters are worse. I'm just saying. I mean if I could stop Savior from match fixing or stop some guy from molesting children I'd pick stopping the guy molesting children and leave Savior alone.
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On March 07 2011 03:00 white_horse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 02:25 frodoguy wrote:On March 07 2011 02:20 white_horse wrote:
um, your comparison is kind of inaccurate. The reason why Korean society is so hardcore against illegal things is not nationalism, its simply because its a more conservative culture than the west and confucian values still affect a lot of aspects of Korean society.
Well they do get reallly sensitive and flaming over stuff that is negative towards their country. But for whatever reason, they are just sensitive to the extreme, like to the extent where it bypasses rationality and thats really all im concerned about. They don't believe in second chances, for whatever the circumstances koreans being sensitive about korea as a country is a totally different issue...to outsiders that wonder why koreans are so defensive about their country, its because koreans suffered a lot in the past because china and japan invaded their country many times and it was through national unity and national defense that helped keep korea exist as a country...so koreans have been always been programmed to respond to any kind of encroachment to their country with fire. I see it as a just social thing; they see criticism of their country as an attack, which is why they are really sensitive to that kind of stuff. You can see similar cases in countries that have been invaded a lot, like ireland or israel. .
Yeah that might be the reason, might be. But that doesn't really justify anything. Give me a reason why i should agree with this coach's rage and also korean's sensitivity. No matter how i think about it, i just can't agree to any extent what the coach tweeted.
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I find it funny that people care so much if savior is playing bw again. But, at the same time, I do like how the coach actually said something meaningful.
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1019 Posts
On March 07 2011 03:15 frodoguy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 03:00 white_horse wrote:On March 07 2011 02:25 frodoguy wrote:On March 07 2011 02:20 white_horse wrote:
um, your comparison is kind of inaccurate. The reason why Korean society is so hardcore against illegal things is not nationalism, its simply because its a more conservative culture than the west and confucian values still affect a lot of aspects of Korean society.
Well they do get reallly sensitive and flaming over stuff that is negative towards their country. But for whatever reason, they are just sensitive to the extreme, like to the extent where it bypasses rationality and thats really all im concerned about. They don't believe in second chances, for whatever the circumstances koreans being sensitive about korea as a country is a totally different issue...to outsiders that wonder why koreans are so defensive about their country, its because koreans suffered a lot in the past because china and japan invaded their country many times and it was through national unity and national defense that helped keep korea exist as a country...so koreans have been always been programmed to respond to any kind of encroachment to their country with fire. I see it as a just social thing; they see criticism of their country as an attack, which is why they are really sensitive to that kind of stuff. You can see similar cases in countries that have been invaded a lot, like ireland or israel. . Yeah that might be the reason, might be. But that doesn't really justify anything. Give me a reason why i should agree with this coach's rage and also korean's sensitivity. No matter how i think about it, i just can't agree to any extent what the coach tweeted.
I never said I agreed with what the coach said. In fact, I think what he said was out of line. But Korea being very sensitive relative to other countries stems from cultural and historical differences, and if an outsider fails to understand that, then he/she is just being ignorant. This is why thoroughly understanding a different culture is so important when commenting about them so one doesn't look like total dumbass. I guarentee you there are chinese and japanese people who think koreans are high strung and uptight for no reason when the irony is that china and japan played extremely negative roles in Korean history and are part of the reason why korea's social personality is different from other countries.
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I still like sAviOr... what he did was a shame, though.
I personally would like to see him play again, but sadly I don't think it'll happen. Lot's of people probably don't agree with my sentiments, though.
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On March 07 2011 03:32 white_horse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 03:15 frodoguy wrote:On March 07 2011 03:00 white_horse wrote:On March 07 2011 02:25 frodoguy wrote:On March 07 2011 02:20 white_horse wrote:
um, your comparison is kind of inaccurate. The reason why Korean society is so hardcore against illegal things is not nationalism, its simply because its a more conservative culture than the west and confucian values still affect a lot of aspects of Korean society.
Well they do get reallly sensitive and flaming over stuff that is negative towards their country. But for whatever reason, they are just sensitive to the extreme, like to the extent where it bypasses rationality and thats really all im concerned about. They don't believe in second chances, for whatever the circumstances koreans being sensitive about korea as a country is a totally different issue...to outsiders that wonder why koreans are so defensive about their country, its because koreans suffered a lot in the past because china and japan invaded their country many times and it was through national unity and national defense that helped keep korea exist as a country...so koreans have been always been programmed to respond to any kind of encroachment to their country with fire. I see it as a just social thing; they see criticism of their country as an attack, which is why they are really sensitive to that kind of stuff. You can see similar cases in countries that have been invaded a lot, like ireland or israel. . Yeah that might be the reason, might be. But that doesn't really justify anything. Give me a reason why i should agree with this coach's rage and also korean's sensitivity. No matter how i think about it, i just can't agree to any extent what the coach tweeted. I never said I agreed with what the coach said. In fact, I think what he said was out of line. But Korea being very sensitive relative to other countries stems from cultural and historical differences, and if an outsider fails to understand that, then he/she is just being ignorant. This is why thoroughly understanding a different culture is so important when commenting about them so one doesn't look like total dumbass. I guarentee you there are chinese and japanese people who think koreans are high strung and uptight for no reason when the irony is that china and japan played extremely negative roles in Korean history and are part of the reason why korea's social personality is different from other countries.
Its one thing to understand, but another to consider whether or not it is right or wrong. And thats what i wanna know. I understand them alright, but the sensitivity feels disgustingly wrong.
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Savior is awesome!!!
Plz come back!
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On March 06 2011 21:58 infinity2k9 wrote:
People saying it's not a big deal, do you not understand the negative impact and risk it made to the Korean eSports scene as a whole? Sponsors could have pulled out because of it and future sponsors of starleagues are probably put off by it. It endangered peoples livelihood so Savior could make money, as if his salary wasn't high for a washed up progamer anyway.. i don't know why people on here are so quick to forgive him or compare to the fucking TSL which is WORLDS apart. He went to court and was charged ffs he's wasn't smurfing on iccup.
Only one single question: What part of this disqualifies savior from playing on brain or fish and streaming it on afreeca?
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EPT
