|
Savior is back! Yes!
SAVIOR PHAJTING!
|
On March 06 2011 17:22 cha0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2011 17:15 Lightwip wrote:
By the way, could someone tell me exactly how big a role Savior played in the match fixing? Without Savior it would not have been possible. He had all the connections and set it all up.
I thought Justin set it up?
Savior is an ass nonetheless.
|
Savior start playing sc2! gogo! no kespa yay!
|
That wasn't very professional of the coach and obviously he could've chose better words. Overall I believe his actions weren't out of line, if that's what he thought then that's fine but saying something like that to the public is pretty lol. Korean culture must be pretty different from ours and I myself have my own opinions. For 1 betrayal is up there... but not on par to child molestors~
|
1019 Posts
On March 07 2011 03:59 frodoguy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 03:32 white_horse wrote:On March 07 2011 03:15 frodoguy wrote:On March 07 2011 03:00 white_horse wrote:On March 07 2011 02:25 frodoguy wrote:On March 07 2011 02:20 white_horse wrote:
um, your comparison is kind of inaccurate. The reason why Korean society is so hardcore against illegal things is not nationalism, its simply because its a more conservative culture than the west and confucian values still affect a lot of aspects of Korean society.
Well they do get reallly sensitive and flaming over stuff that is negative towards their country. But for whatever reason, they are just sensitive to the extreme, like to the extent where it bypasses rationality and thats really all im concerned about. They don't believe in second chances, for whatever the circumstances koreans being sensitive about korea as a country is a totally different issue...to outsiders that wonder why koreans are so defensive about their country, its because koreans suffered a lot in the past because china and japan invaded their country many times and it was through national unity and national defense that helped keep korea exist as a country...so koreans have been always been programmed to respond to any kind of encroachment to their country with fire. I see it as a just social thing; they see criticism of their country as an attack, which is why they are really sensitive to that kind of stuff. You can see similar cases in countries that have been invaded a lot, like ireland or israel. . Yeah that might be the reason, might be. But that doesn't really justify anything. Give me a reason why i should agree with this coach's rage and also korean's sensitivity. No matter how i think about it, i just can't agree to any extent what the coach tweeted. I never said I agreed with what the coach said. In fact, I think what he said was out of line. But Korea being very sensitive relative to other countries stems from cultural and historical differences, and if an outsider fails to understand that, then he/she is just being ignorant. This is why thoroughly understanding a different culture is so important when commenting about them so one doesn't look like total dumbass. I guarentee you there are chinese and japanese people who think koreans are high strung and uptight for no reason when the irony is that china and japan played extremely negative roles in Korean history and are part of the reason why korea's social personality is different from other countries. Its one thing to understand, but another to consider whether or not it is right or wrong. And thats what i wanna know. I understand them alright, but the sensitivity feels disgustingly wrong.
ok...you think the sensitivity is wrong but in korea no one thinks its wrong because they happen to think differently than you. Your opinion is based on (I assume) western viewpoint so I have nothing more to say other than repeat that its a cultural difference.
|
On March 07 2011 04:32 Roflhaxx wrote:
Savior start playing sc2! gogo! no kespa yay!
please stop making posts like this.
|
Meh. Coach is way over the line, but I understand the anger.
Idk, every time I hear of Saviour I tear up, in anger and sadness.
|
On March 07 2011 04:45 etheovermind wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 04:32 Roflhaxx wrote:
Savior start playing sc2! gogo! no kespa yay! STOP MAKING POSTS LIKE THIS!
why ? , he should really do it, not that they are gonna let him but still at least give it a try, cuz there are still a lot of fans who want to see him play either bw or sc2, and u dont get to stop their desire
|
On March 07 2011 04:48 miky_ardiente wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 04:45 etheovermind wrote:On March 07 2011 04:32 Roflhaxx wrote:
Savior start playing sc2! gogo! no kespa yay! STOP MAKING POSTS LIKE THIS! why ? , he should really do it, not that they are gonna let him but still at least give it a try, cuz there are still a lot of fans who want to see him play either bw or sc2, and u dont get to stop their desire
If he plays SC2 and does mediocre like BoxeR and Nada and July and Grrrr it just ruins the image. If Savior goes to play SC2 and becomes some average bum, thats how everyone will remember him.
|
On March 07 2011 04:44 white_horse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 03:59 frodoguy wrote:On March 07 2011 03:32 white_horse wrote:On March 07 2011 03:15 frodoguy wrote:On March 07 2011 03:00 white_horse wrote:On March 07 2011 02:25 frodoguy wrote:On March 07 2011 02:20 white_horse wrote:
um, your comparison is kind of inaccurate. The reason why Korean society is so hardcore against illegal things is not nationalism, its simply because its a more conservative culture than the west and confucian values still affect a lot of aspects of Korean society.
Well they do get reallly sensitive and flaming over stuff that is negative towards their country. But for whatever reason, they are just sensitive to the extreme, like to the extent where it bypasses rationality and thats really all im concerned about. They don't believe in second chances, for whatever the circumstances koreans being sensitive about korea as a country is a totally different issue...to outsiders that wonder why koreans are so defensive about their country, its because koreans suffered a lot in the past because china and japan invaded their country many times and it was through national unity and national defense that helped keep korea exist as a country...so koreans have been always been programmed to respond to any kind of encroachment to their country with fire. I see it as a just social thing; they see criticism of their country as an attack, which is why they are really sensitive to that kind of stuff. You can see similar cases in countries that have been invaded a lot, like ireland or israel. . Yeah that might be the reason, might be. But that doesn't really justify anything. Give me a reason why i should agree with this coach's rage and also korean's sensitivity. No matter how i think about it, i just can't agree to any extent what the coach tweeted. I never said I agreed with what the coach said. In fact, I think what he said was out of line. But Korea being very sensitive relative to other countries stems from cultural and historical differences, and if an outsider fails to understand that, then he/she is just being ignorant. This is why thoroughly understanding a different culture is so important when commenting about them so one doesn't look like total dumbass. I guarentee you there are chinese and japanese people who think koreans are high strung and uptight for no reason when the irony is that china and japan played extremely negative roles in Korean history and are part of the reason why korea's social personality is different from other countries. Its one thing to understand, but another to consider whether or not it is right or wrong. And thats what i wanna know. I understand them alright, but the sensitivity feels disgustingly wrong. ok...you think the sensitivity is wrong but in korea no one thinks its wrong because they happen to think differently than you. Your opinion is based on (I assume) western viewpoint so I have nothing more to say other than repeat that its a cultural difference.
So ur average joe in korea thinks this is acceptable?
|
On March 07 2011 04:52 etheovermind wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 04:48 miky_ardiente wrote:On March 07 2011 04:45 etheovermind wrote:On March 07 2011 04:32 Roflhaxx wrote:
Savior start playing sc2! gogo! no kespa yay! STOP MAKING POSTS LIKE THIS! why ? , he should really do it, not that they are gonna let him but still at least give it a try, cuz there are still a lot of fans who want to see him play either bw or sc2, and u dont get to stop their desire If he plays SC2 and does mediocre like BoxeR and Nada and July and Grrrr it just ruins the image. If Savior goes to play SC2 and becomes some average bum, thats how everyone will remember him.
?
we believe he will dominate
|
On March 07 2011 04:55 stork4ever wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 04:52 etheovermind wrote:On March 07 2011 04:48 miky_ardiente wrote:On March 07 2011 04:45 etheovermind wrote:On March 07 2011 04:32 Roflhaxx wrote:
Savior start playing sc2! gogo! no kespa yay! STOP MAKING POSTS LIKE THIS! why ? , he should really do it, not that they are gonna let him but still at least give it a try, cuz there are still a lot of fans who want to see him play either bw or sc2, and u dont get to stop their desire If he plays SC2 and does mediocre like BoxeR and Nada and July and Grrrr it just ruins the image. If Savior goes to play SC2 and becomes some average bum, thats how everyone will remember him. ? we believe he will dominate
Why are they not gonna let him? It's not like they can force him not to play
|
On March 07 2011 04:55 stork4ever wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 04:52 etheovermind wrote:On March 07 2011 04:48 miky_ardiente wrote:On March 07 2011 04:45 etheovermind wrote:On March 07 2011 04:32 Roflhaxx wrote:
Savior start playing sc2! gogo! no kespa yay! STOP MAKING POSTS LIKE THIS! why ? , he should really do it, not that they are gonna let him but still at least give it a try, cuz there are still a lot of fans who want to see him play either bw or sc2, and u dont get to stop their desire If he plays SC2 and does mediocre like BoxeR and Nada and July and Grrrr it just ruins the image. If Savior goes to play SC2 and becomes some average bum, thats how everyone will remember him. ? we believe he will dominate
But like or not, BW is harder. If Savior plays SC2, I doubt he would do any better than anyone else. This is not BW vs SC2 but SC2 is easier to play and doesn't reward the best players like BW does. Ask me a year ago whether Nada would dominate in SC2 and I would have said yes.
|
Meh if i was a member of the SC scene I would be pissed like that also. Honestly Savior was a big part of something that could have killed the BW scene. When you work hard for something only to see someone do something like that I would be that angry as well.
|
On March 06 2011 23:49 ShcShc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2011 23:35 infinity2k9 wrote:On March 06 2011 23:08 ShcShc wrote:
Lol people are a bit too harsh on the people who were involved with match-fixing.
Its wrong what they did but progamers doesn't make that much money so its not something which I find that surprising. Heck, I feel it was bound to happen especially with all the sacrifice that comes along with it (school, studies, etc...).
Anyway...
Savior and Hwasin don't make much money? Go actually find out these things before talking shit. Savior is more the exception, but yes, even him. IIRC, with G.O team, he was making less than 50k. Then G.O team became CJ and after his first titles, his salary went over a hundred K. I believe his best year was 400k (where he made the most among all progamers). Hwasin, (based on memory), did not exceed 100k per year. UpMagic was with eStro and was around 50k. (all based on memory). PER YEAR, its great. Its fantastic especially for their age. But what about the post-progaming years? Over a long-term period, its barely anything. And there doesn't seem that many career opportunities related to e-sport. Many of them will probably go back studying which cost mucho dinero and a lot of opportunity cost (salaries that could have been made during these studies). There are a lot of CFL players (the "canadian" NFL) whom make well over 130k per year for 5 years and are actually genuinely struggling to make some ends meet (no they don't spend recklessly) because there isin't that much opportunities in the post-professional era. "Go actually find out these things before talking shit" Ah has the old TL courteous day a long time history?? haha. But yes, in a general life perspective, its pretty mediocre. (of course no progamers go in for the money, but money is still an undeniable important aspect of life).
The difference being that I'm pretty sure most pro-gamers are quite intelligent and can go just go back to school after their pro-gaming career ends like most of them do (if they don't become a coach/commentator, etc). CFL players.... I dunno.
|
On March 06 2011 23:49 ShcShc wrote:
PER YEAR, its great. Its fantastic especially for their age.
But what about the post-progaming years? Over a long-term period, its barely anything. And there doesn't seem that many career opportunities related to e-sport.
Actually there are for players that made their mark. A lot go into coaching positions (head/assistant/race coaches) or become TV personalities/commentators. Savior especially had it fucking made (just like NaDa and Boxer) if he wasn't such a greedy fuck. Savior could have easily gotten a coaching position, or a sponsorship for star2 like the other two.
Don't try to excuse him for "worrying about his future". Savior was one of the best paid players, even after his prime (due to his status and fanbase). A bonjwa like him could have used his fame and success to secure his future for the next decade. The guy was a legend until he chose to be a scumbag instead.
As for the less famous players, yes some don't make much in their careers, some do, but nobody is forcing them to stay if they don't enjoy it or want to pursue it. Being an A-teamer for 2 years (making 40-50 a year) is great for being 20 years old, and will be a nice down payment on a higher education should you pursue it afterwards. You also get to be a minor celebrity of sorts, be on TV and have fans (and fangirls) cheer for you, which is not something a lot of teenagers have. If you aren't good enough to make the A-team, you can retire after a year or so (as many B-teamers do), and think of it as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that didn't pan out.
|
On March 07 2011 04:57 Roflhaxx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 04:55 stork4ever wrote:On March 07 2011 04:52 etheovermind wrote:On March 07 2011 04:48 miky_ardiente wrote:On March 07 2011 04:45 etheovermind wrote:On March 07 2011 04:32 Roflhaxx wrote:
Savior start playing sc2! gogo! no kespa yay! STOP MAKING POSTS LIKE THIS! why ? , he should really do it, not that they are gonna let him but still at least give it a try, cuz there are still a lot of fans who want to see him play either bw or sc2, and u dont get to stop their desire If he plays SC2 and does mediocre like BoxeR and Nada and July and Grrrr it just ruins the image. If Savior goes to play SC2 and becomes some average bum, thats how everyone will remember him. ? we believe he will dominate Why are they not gonna let him? It's not like they can force him not to play
well they cant actually force him not to play i guess, but they will say some crap about honesty and not wanting people with criminal records to enter the big tournaments and stain the image of the e-sports and sc2
|
1019 Posts
On March 07 2011 04:54 frodoguy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 04:44 white_horse wrote:On March 07 2011 03:59 frodoguy wrote:On March 07 2011 03:32 white_horse wrote:On March 07 2011 03:15 frodoguy wrote:On March 07 2011 03:00 white_horse wrote:On March 07 2011 02:25 frodoguy wrote:On March 07 2011 02:20 white_horse wrote:
um, your comparison is kind of inaccurate. The reason why Korean society is so hardcore against illegal things is not nationalism, its simply because its a more conservative culture than the west and confucian values still affect a lot of aspects of Korean society.
Well they do get reallly sensitive and flaming over stuff that is negative towards their country. But for whatever reason, they are just sensitive to the extreme, like to the extent where it bypasses rationality and thats really all im concerned about. They don't believe in second chances, for whatever the circumstances koreans being sensitive about korea as a country is a totally different issue...to outsiders that wonder why koreans are so defensive about their country, its because koreans suffered a lot in the past because china and japan invaded their country many times and it was through national unity and national defense that helped keep korea exist as a country...so koreans have been always been programmed to respond to any kind of encroachment to their country with fire. I see it as a just social thing; they see criticism of their country as an attack, which is why they are really sensitive to that kind of stuff. You can see similar cases in countries that have been invaded a lot, like ireland or israel. . Yeah that might be the reason, might be. But that doesn't really justify anything. Give me a reason why i should agree with this coach's rage and also korean's sensitivity. No matter how i think about it, i just can't agree to any extent what the coach tweeted. I never said I agreed with what the coach said. In fact, I think what he said was out of line. But Korea being very sensitive relative to other countries stems from cultural and historical differences, and if an outsider fails to understand that, then he/she is just being ignorant. This is why thoroughly understanding a different culture is so important when commenting about them so one doesn't look like total dumbass. I guarentee you there are chinese and japanese people who think koreans are high strung and uptight for no reason when the irony is that china and japan played extremely negative roles in Korean history and are part of the reason why korea's social personality is different from other countries. Its one thing to understand, but another to consider whether or not it is right or wrong. And thats what i wanna know. I understand them alright, but the sensitivity feels disgustingly wrong. ok...you think the sensitivity is wrong but in korea no one thinks its wrong because they happen to think differently than you. Your opinion is based on (I assume) western viewpoint so I have nothing more to say other than repeat that its a cultural difference. So ur average joe in korea thinks this is acceptable?
you keep talking like its shocking and wrong that koreans are so hard-handed about something like this but I wrote like 3 times already that its simply a cultural difference. You don't think asian countries consider certain aspects of western culture as wrong/weird?
And like I said before, a lot of people in the industry were very very disappointed about savior. Its a universal thing that people of high status are expected to have good character but its especially true in korea. And its true that savior damaged the reputation and scale of the industry in korea. You would expect that someone like him would work to make e-sports bigger but he did the exact opposite. sensitivity issues aside, I think people are just really angry and really disappointed about him because of what he has caused, not just the fact that he fixed matches.
|
On March 07 2011 04:52 etheovermind wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 04:48 miky_ardiente wrote:On March 07 2011 04:45 etheovermind wrote:On March 07 2011 04:32 Roflhaxx wrote:
Savior start playing sc2! gogo! no kespa yay! STOP MAKING POSTS LIKE THIS! why ? , he should really do it, not that they are gonna let him but still at least give it a try, cuz there are still a lot of fans who want to see him play either bw or sc2, and u dont get to stop their desire If he plays SC2 and does mediocre like BoxeR and Nada and July and Grrrr it just ruins the image. If Savior goes to play SC2 and becomes some average bum, thats how everyone will remember him.
let me ask u something, when u hear nada, do u think of him as the great bw genius, the tornado terran or as mediocre sc2 player ?
do u hear boxer and think of him as the emperor, the most important men in the history of e-sports or just as a mediocre sc2 player ?
i think that doesnt matter if they suck or do poorly in sc2, fans will never forget, and savior was the first men to ever be called bonjwa and i dont think fans are just gonna forget that
|
On March 07 2011 05:17 miky_ardiente wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 04:52 etheovermind wrote:On March 07 2011 04:48 miky_ardiente wrote:On March 07 2011 04:45 etheovermind wrote:On March 07 2011 04:32 Roflhaxx wrote:
Savior start playing sc2! gogo! no kespa yay! STOP MAKING POSTS LIKE THIS! why ? , he should really do it, not that they are gonna let him but still at least give it a try, cuz there are still a lot of fans who want to see him play either bw or sc2, and u dont get to stop their desire If he plays SC2 and does mediocre like BoxeR and Nada and July and Grrrr it just ruins the image. If Savior goes to play SC2 and becomes some average bum, thats how everyone will remember him. let me ask u something, when u hear nada, do u think of him as the great bw genius, the tornado terran or as mediocre sc2 player ? do u hear boxer and think of him as the emperor, the most important men in the history of e-sports or just as a mediocre sc2 player ? i think that doesnt matter if they suck or do poorly in sc2, fans will never forget, and savior was the first men to ever be called bonjwa and i dont think fans are just gonna forget that
Well said I guess. I know I will always try to remember Nada like he was in BW but i still wish he had never switched to SC2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
