On June 14 2011 18:45 Zombie_Velociraptor wrote: Feel like a lifetime ban is way too harsh of a punishment on something like this. Sure, he screwed up - but I can sort of understand the guy, too. He invested into Starcraft no less than any other players did, being a progamer since... 16, was it? He had so many incredible performances yet was often underrated imo, and it's not like people don't make dumb mistakes in their early 20's.
In my opinion, his ban doesn't serve any good, for anyone - a few years 'time off' as a penalty is more than enough, and I think it would be incredible to see him playing again, especially if he could make a strong come back - although a lot of people would probably hate him anyway because of all the trash that was piled up on him during the whole matchfixing affair when he was pretty much made the biggest scapegoat of it all...
Still, hope he does well with whatever he ends up doing in future. The guy obviously has a brilliant mind.
He brought the entire scene into disrepute and not only did he fix matches for himself, he helped others to do the same. I don't know about you but he definitely deserves a life-time ban. He also didn't help his case by flat out lying and denying when it first surfaced and then proceeded to drag his coach's name through the mud. Can you really trust him again after all he's done?
How can you say that he, single-handedly, brought the entire scene into disrepute? Considering how big the whole affair was, it is very naive to even suggest that, obviously if he didn't get involved with it, then someone else would have, he was simply (and is that even really proven?...) amongst the first to accept the money in it. Yes, it was shady and not at all a good thing to do, but it's not like he was the only one tempted by it or something - he was just smart enough to do more than merely throw his own games for money. In my eyes, he isn't any more a villain in this than any of the people who profited off the whole endeavour. (which still makes him a pretty big villain, but making him the scapegoat for the entire affair isn't fair, imo).
As for denying this stuff... Can you honestly say you would have the 'integrity' to accept criminal charges in court right away? I dunno, I've never been in such a situation myself, but I can see why he wouldn't - besides, again, do we even know for sure that he was the original perpetrator of the whole thing? We're never going to find out the whole truth about it, nor the real reasonings behind any of what happened.
The fact that he still plays BW now while being banned from progaming goes to show he does care about the game and not just the money in it, which, considering how royally screwed he was in the end, is in my eyes pretty darn impressive.
I do think the whole matchfixing thing was disgusting but really, everybody falls - it's how fast we get up and find our way again that counts.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hwasin confess and apologize the moment people started pointing fingers at him? Or was that go.go?
On June 14 2011 18:45 Zombie_Velociraptor wrote: Feel like a lifetime ban is way too harsh of a punishment on something like this. Sure, he screwed up - but I can sort of understand the guy, too. He invested into Starcraft no less than any other players did, being a progamer since... 16, was it? He had so many incredible performances yet was often underrated imo, and it's not like people don't make dumb mistakes in their early 20's.
In my opinion, his ban doesn't serve any good, for anyone - a few years 'time off' as a penalty is more than enough, and I think it would be incredible to see him playing again, especially if he could make a strong come back - although a lot of people would probably hate him anyway because of all the trash that was piled up on him during the whole matchfixing affair when he was pretty much made the biggest scapegoat of it all...
Still, hope he does well with whatever he ends up doing in future. The guy obviously has a brilliant mind.
He brought the entire scene into disrepute and not only did he fix matches for himself, he helped others to do the same. I don't know about you but he definitely deserves a life-time ban. He also didn't help his case by flat out lying and denying when it first surfaced and then proceeded to drag his coach's name through the mud. Can you really trust him again after all he's done?
How can you say that he, single-handedly, brought the entire scene into disrepute? Considering how big the whole affair was, it is very naive to even suggest that, obviously if he didn't get involved with it, then someone else would have, he was simply (and is that even really proven?...) amongst the first to accept the money in it. Yes, it was shady and not at all a good thing to do, but it's not like he was the only one tempted by it or something - he was just smart enough to do more than merely throw his own games for money. In my eyes, he isn't any more a villain in this than any of the people who profited off the whole endeavour. (which still makes him a pretty big villain, but making him the scapegoat for the entire affair isn't fair, imo).
As for denying this stuff... Can you honestly say you would have the 'integrity' to accept criminal charges in court right away? I dunno, I've never been in such a situation myself, but I can see why he wouldn't - besides, again, do we even know for sure that he was the original perpetrator of the whole thing? We're never going to find out the whole truth about it, nor the real reasonings behind any of what happened.
The fact that he still plays BW now while being banned from progaming goes to show he does care about the game and not just the money in it, which, considering how royally screwed he was in the end, is in my eyes pretty darn impressive.
I do think the whole matchfixing thing was disgusting but really, everybody falls - it's how fast we get up and find our way again that counts.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hwasin confess and apologize the moment people started pointing fingers at him? Or was that go.go?
If I remember correctly, he like, had a complete break down in court, tears and all while testifying? I'm not sure though, it's been a while. I didn't know every person involved was banned for life either - although that just makes the whole thing even more stupid, IMO.
Either way, I can see why someone may feel like the punishment is warranted - doesn't mean I agree with it, though.
Some people have questioned why he'd still play as he obviously has no future in the game.
On June 14 2011 16:15 Z3kk wrote: One would think that he's completely done with sc, though...I mean, he's banned essentially for life, so why does he not just do something else :/ he's getting so much hate, and clearly will not ever get to play competitively again, do why not just move on? Otherwise, it will be hard for him to make a living :x
This isn't why hardly anyone plays. Making a living is a tangential concern. If the observation is that there's no money or future for sAviOr, we can apply that to hundreds of practice partners and scrubs and basically all amateurs on iccup or brain. Also, we can apply it to everyone who has every been over the hump in history. Boxer, retire, you're just a cheerleader. Wait, he still made a big salary. How about Pusan? foru? even Sea?
People like us who play as a hobby can't even give it up. It should be even harder for someone to give it up when it was at the center of his life, and it took him to the biggest stages and brought him the prettiest women. These games are just a part of a lot of people.
What about the argument from flak? Actually, I think netizens troll everybody. Progamers must have given up listening to the bad stuff a long time ago.
On June 15 2011 02:28 IamBach wrote: http://www.majaeyun.com/ Can someone please tell me about this website?
Basically gives an overview of the match-fixing scandal, focusing on Savior and his Afreeca broadcasts afterwards. The youtube video there even features him talking to a mike. Sorry Non-Koreans
Even if they unbanned him, no team would want him. Also he's probably not even good enough any more; at the end of his career he was on a 7 game losing streak and he's only gotten worse since then while everyone else has been improving AND he's pretty old now.
In this video, at the time I linked he gets a message from Bisu[Shield]...is that a troll? Or did the real bisu msg him, idk what the kor says ;;.
Is this savior talking in the vid?
Look at the surgical percision of his mouse movements, look at the apm - though not very high, has practically no redundancy, watch the rhythmic, very orderly macro cycling. There can be no doubt, it is our bonjwa, the maestro, the best of ages.
The guy's voice really does sound like Savior's voice, so I don't really find too many reasons to be skeptical. His play style is like Savior's as well.
On June 15 2011 03:21 Crunchums wrote: Even if they unbanned him, no team would want him. Also he's probably not even good enough any more; at the end of his career he was on a 7 game losing streak and he's only gotten worse since then while everyone else has been improving AND he's pretty old now.
On June 15 2011 03:21 Crunchums wrote: Even if they unbanned him, no team would want him. Also he's probably not even good enough any more; at the end of his career he was on a 7 game losing streak and he's only gotten worse since then while everyone else has been improving AND he's pretty old now.
Remember, savior had an epic bnet series with flash recently, flash thought it was jaedong because the macro was so sick, savior is no joke, even now, with some hardcore practice he could definitely at least get to a-team solid level. its all behind kespa now - if they do the sensible decision, or continue unjust crusade against starcraft.
He brought the entire scene into disrepute and not only did he fix matches for himself, he helped others to do the same. I don't know about you but he definitely deserves a life-time ban.
First of all, when did I say he 'single-handedly' brought the entire scene into disrepute? Of course there were other people mixed up in the scandal but he was identified as a key figure. If you think there was a big conspiracy theory by the guilty parties to place blame soley on savior, then you're welcome to believe whatever you want. I don't know of any evidence to support that idea or to completely dispel it.
First off, LMFAO.
Savior was the "key" figure because he was the biggest name. If you want to point fingers at the real masterminds go talk to the mobsters and Justin.
I'd appreciate if you stopped throwing around your assumptions as facts as well. Savior was never formally accused of throwing games and I doubt that he ever did.
I'm a huge Savior fan, and from how the CJ coach was confused about how Savior couldn't perform on stage even if his skills were good in practice, Savior probably actually was better than his last televised games would suggest.
But banning Savior from professional games was the sensible decision, nor is their stance unjust. To say that Savior should be let in even after being one of the main players in the scandal is pretty ridiculous.
EPT
