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On January 21 2011 05:37 Chise wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 05:24 Sonictonic wrote:On January 21 2011 05:22 Sm3agol wrote:On January 21 2011 05:19 branflakes14 wrote:On January 21 2011 05:10 DoubleReed wrote:So much balance whine. I honestly am only recently getting good enough to really notice issues that zerg has a problem with. But personally, I think most people are far too inexperienced with the game to have a good grasp of the balance problems. Not all of us are. But really, I think Idra summed it up very well: On December 29 2010 17:08 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2010 17:01 Beef Noodles wrote:On December 29 2010 16:21 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2010 15:44 Liquid`Ret wrote:all these theories on idra ladder are untrue...he ladders to win games...just watch his stream...it also explains why zerg isnt in top10 and why there are less of us in the top200  indeed if i think i can win i stay in the game. there are times when ive left a game and my opponent couldve made a gigantic mistake and handed me the win, but thats rare and irrelevant. its just really fucking easy to lose as zerg. Do you think that zerg is currently at a disadvantage or do you think it is a momentum race that cannot lose momentum if they want to win? I know that you don't like to respond very often, but I would like to hear your views on the current state of the zerg race (without iNcontrol telling you to shut up like on SOTG lol) zerg is fucking awful clearly weakest, least reliable options early game. any viable pressure is nearly a complete allin, besides light roach aggression which is easily nullified. both t and p have lots of ways to put game ending pressure on z early and half of them arent even close to allin, and most are unscoutable and have different counters. and the idea that z is somehow the strongest late game race is fuckin absurd. hive units are nearly useless and horribly cost inefficient unless broodlords catch them off guard. ya, you can insta remax if you're allowed to get a giant econ, but remaxing on lair units vs collosus or tank based armies hardly matters when you can trade 200/200 for a tenth of their army. if z guesses, and guessing is required if t and p dont show a ridiculously early expansion, correctly and hits drone timings perfectly then they have a mid game advantage, but its not an advantage that can be used very well. its very easy for t or p to make themselves unkillable and head for that invincible late game army. z gets to use their unit advantage to tech towards hive, which can be nullified, or to expand a bunch so they can throw away a few extra 200/200 armies before getting rolled. zerg is failing massively in just about every statistic besides gsl first places. the race is fucking awful. i honestly have no idea how so many people dont acknowledge it yet. zergs performance in the foreign scene is very nearly non existent. i think morrow has won one viking cup and otherwise 0 z wins since i won mlg dc. and a pitiful number of titles before that. Seriously, Idra makes several good points relating to several areas of gameplay. His point about earlygame and lategame disadvantage actually seems pretty accurate IMO. Personally, I'm surprised that broodlords DO catch people offguard as often as they do, as it takes forever to get them (both Hive and Greater Spire morphing give you signs). But then I suppose people aren't used to needing to scout zerg that often... Maybe one day Zergs will realise that you can Fungal Growth an army and pelt them with Broodlings from out of their range. You'd think the only unit with abilities in the entire Zerg arsenal was the Queen. It's like the ability to lock an army in position is considered worthless. Facing 2 rax "all-in" every game, transitioning into marine/medivac/tank pressure while you struggle to just produce enough units to keep from getting steam rolled 4 minutes into the game doesn't leave much space to get infestors or brood lords. If only there was this structure that would act like a static defence that can move around that completly shuts down any early(4 minute yah) pressure. If only there was this unit that would outrange this static defence that can move around (seriously, spinecralwers are so imba, nerf please) and shuts down the utility of this uber insance static defence that can actually move around (once again, wtf, so imba, nerf spinecralwers). Not at a 4 Minute push, but at a ~7 min push.
Tell me what unit outranges a spinecrawler at the 4 minute mark when the push apparently comes, according to a bawling zerg player that can not come to term with that he might not be the best player ever.
That was my whole point, terran can do ANYTHING save sending all their SCVs, and it isn't an all in. Even when they send the SCVs, it's not always an all in.
Then why are everyone crying about these all ins that apparently arent all ins?
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Why so much Terran success in GSL?
+ Show Spoiler +
Why so much balance whine in tl.net forums?
+ Show Spoiler +Thats easier. Non Terrans want terran to be OP. Thats kind of weird if you think about it. Why would you want your enemy to be stronger than you? The answer is plain simple: Because you need an excuse why you lost that recent PvT / ZvT. Losing is nothing people like to do, but if terran is op, losing to terran is fine. Its not your fault.
So, non terrans will naturally always try to make terran look OP. They could be right, but thats irrelevant, because no matter what kind of statistics they see, their conclusion will always be: terran op.
More terrans in gsl: terran op
More protoss in master league: terran op
Its the same, but vice versa with terrans. Of course you only won that recent TvP / TvZ because your were the better player. Imbalance? No way!
Most terrans will always say that terran is fine. At best there MIGHT be a small map imbalance.
So, we have 2 groups of people discussing about a certain topic, even though both groups will never ever admit that they are wrong. You dont even need to hear your opponents arguments to know that they are bad.
Please stop balance discussions. Close this thread.
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Infestor Broodlord counters everything FYI.
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I think the only problem right now is that everyone is hoping that blizz reads and believe in this thread...
It started with a innocent discussion and now it's how we can nerf terran early game and make maps bigger...
Makes one wonder why it hasnt been closed yet ....
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On January 21 2011 05:40 Griffith` wrote:
Infestor Broodlord counters everything FYI.
lol
i hope this is sarcasm!
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On January 21 2011 05:39 Sonictonic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 05:37 Chise wrote:On January 21 2011 05:24 Sonictonic wrote:On January 21 2011 05:22 Sm3agol wrote:On January 21 2011 05:19 branflakes14 wrote:On January 21 2011 05:10 DoubleReed wrote:So much balance whine. I honestly am only recently getting good enough to really notice issues that zerg has a problem with. But personally, I think most people are far too inexperienced with the game to have a good grasp of the balance problems. Not all of us are. But really, I think Idra summed it up very well: On December 29 2010 17:08 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2010 17:01 Beef Noodles wrote:On December 29 2010 16:21 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2010 15:44 Liquid`Ret wrote:all these theories on idra ladder are untrue...he ladders to win games...just watch his stream...it also explains why zerg isnt in top10 and why there are less of us in the top200 indeed if i think i can win i stay in the game. there are times when ive left a game and my opponent couldve made a gigantic mistake and handed me the win, but thats rare and irrelevant. its just really fucking easy to lose as zerg. Do you think that zerg is currently at a disadvantage or do you think it is a momentum race that cannot lose momentum if they want to win? I know that you don't like to respond very often, but I would like to hear your views on the current state of the zerg race (without iNcontrol telling you to shut up like on SOTG lol) zerg is fucking awful clearly weakest, least reliable options early game. any viable pressure is nearly a complete allin, besides light roach aggression which is easily nullified. both t and p have lots of ways to put game ending pressure on z early and half of them arent even close to allin, and most are unscoutable and have different counters. and the idea that z is somehow the strongest late game race is fuckin absurd. hive units are nearly useless and horribly cost inefficient unless broodlords catch them off guard. ya, you can insta remax if you're allowed to get a giant econ, but remaxing on lair units vs collosus or tank based armies hardly matters when you can trade 200/200 for a tenth of their army. if z guesses, and guessing is required if t and p dont show a ridiculously early expansion, correctly and hits drone timings perfectly then they have a mid game advantage, but its not an advantage that can be used very well. its very easy for t or p to make themselves unkillable and head for that invincible late game army. z gets to use their unit advantage to tech towards hive, which can be nullified, or to expand a bunch so they can throw away a few extra 200/200 armies before getting rolled. zerg is failing massively in just about every statistic besides gsl first places. the race is fucking awful. i honestly have no idea how so many people dont acknowledge it yet. zergs performance in the foreign scene is very nearly non existent. i think morrow has won one viking cup and otherwise 0 z wins since i won mlg dc. and a pitiful number of titles before that. Seriously, Idra makes several good points relating to several areas of gameplay. His point about earlygame and lategame disadvantage actually seems pretty accurate IMO. Personally, I'm surprised that broodlords DO catch people offguard as often as they do, as it takes forever to get them (both Hive and Greater Spire morphing give you signs). But then I suppose people aren't used to needing to scout zerg that often... Maybe one day Zergs will realise that you can Fungal Growth an army and pelt them with Broodlings from out of their range. You'd think the only unit with abilities in the entire Zerg arsenal was the Queen. It's like the ability to lock an army in position is considered worthless. Facing 2 rax "all-in" every game, transitioning into marine/medivac/tank pressure while you struggle to just produce enough units to keep from getting steam rolled 4 minutes into the game doesn't leave much space to get infestors or brood lords. If only there was this structure that would act like a static defence that can move around that completly shuts down any early(4 minute yah) pressure. If only there was this unit that would outrange this static defence that can move around (seriously, spinecralwers are so imba, nerf please) and shuts down the utility of this uber insance static defence that can actually move around (once again, wtf, so imba, nerf spinecralwers). Not at a 4 Minute push, but at a ~7 min push. Tell me what unit outranges a spinecrawler at the 4 minute mark when the push apparently comes, according to a bawling zerg player that can not come to term with that he might not be the best player ever. Show nested quote +That was my whole point, terran can do ANYTHING save sending all their SCVs, and it isn't an all in. Even when they send the SCVs, it's not always an all in. Then why are everyone crying about these all ins that apparently arent all ins?
Because RTS games should have all ins. Because protoss and zerg have all ins. Because terran should not be able to do anything with little to no risk.
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Thats easier. Non Terrans want terran to be OP. Thats kind of weird if you think about it. Why would you want your enemy to be stronger than you? The answer is plain simple: Because you need an excuse why you lost that recent PvT / ZvT. Losing is nothing people like to do, but if terran is op, losing to terran is fine. Its not your fault.
So, non terrans will naturally always try to make terran look OP. They could be right, but thats irrelevant, because no matter what kind of statistics they see, their conclusion will always be: terran op.
More terrans in gsl: terran op
More protoss in master league: terran op
Its the same, but vice versa with terrans. Of course you only won that recent TvP / TvZ because your were the better player. Imbalance? No way!
Most terrans will always say that terran is fine. At best there MIGHT be a small map imbalance.
So, we have 2 groups of people discussing about a certain topic, even though both groups will never ever admit that they are wrong. You dont even need to hear your opponents arguments to know, that they are bad.
Please stop balance discussions. Close this thread.
Mucho wisdom in this post, I really dont see what leaving this thread open accomplishes.
Because RTS games should have all ins. Because protoss and zerg have all ins. Because terran should not be able to do anything with little to no risk.
Terrans are not able to do everything without risk, stop being dumb.
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how about small statistics pool? didn't the first 3 gsl's determine who was in code s for gsl 4? so if terrans do well in 2/3 (66%) of the gsls they are automatically going to be placed higher in gsl 4 so they represent highly in 3/4 gsls (75%) just food for thought
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On January 21 2011 05:43 Sonictonic wrote:
Terrans are not able to do everything without risk, stop being dumb.
Little to no risk. Why are you involved in a discussion you feel is worthless?
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On January 21 2011 04:20 NikonTC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 04:16 imbs wrote:On January 21 2011 03:58 Scrimpton wrote:On January 21 2011 03:52 statez wrote:
I hate these threads. So everyone that plays T are instantly favored from an OP race/heavily favored map and Z is super hard because of larvae management and creep tumors. yawn. (over)representation of Zerg players.. it's so embarrassing to see the beacon of starcraft 2 in the west like this.. all due to one race with a persecution complex since that reaper thing. Z, Focus on your own play. Thx Bro theres no need to be so defensive about your race btw, try and look at things objectively, and not just from your own point of view. I hate myself but I just have to reply to this. WHAT is with people going "oh well you play terran so of course your opinion is biased". why don't I just say "well you play zerg so YOUR opinion is biased against terran" ? If you seriously believe that the people in this thread crying about balance are being unbiased and objective? then I don't know what to tell you.. except, no :p
I play Terran and I think Terran is OP, so do I fall under your category? I'm not just saying this, the reason WHY I started playing T in SC2 is because I knew they were stronger than the other races. I would have done the same in BW except BW's T requires too much mechanics and multi-tasking; which is clearly not the case for SC2's T
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On January 21 2011 05:46 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 05:43 Sonictonic wrote:
Terrans are not able to do everything without risk, stop being dumb.
Little to no risk. Why are you involved in a discussion you feel is worthless?
Little to no risk? Only the case if the player they are against are using chopsticks to play the game with.
And I find it enjoyable to argue with morons for some reason.
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On January 21 2011 05:40 Grummler wrote:
Why so much balance whine in tl.net forums?
Thats easier. Non Terrans want terran to be OP. Thats kind of weird if you think about it. Why would you want your enemy to be stronger than you? The answer is plain simple: Because you need an excuse why you lost that recent PvT / ZvT. Losing is nothing people like to do, but if terran is op, losing to terran is fine. Its not your fault.
So, non terrans will naturally always try to make terran look OP. They could be right, but thats irrelevant, because no matter what kind of statistics they see, their conclusion will always be: terran op.
More terrans in gsl: terran op
More protoss in master league: terran op
Its the same, but vice versa with terrans. Of course you only won that recent TvP / TvZ because your were the better player. Imbalance? No way!
Most terrans will always say that terran is fine. At best there MIGHT be a small map imbalance.
So, we have 2 groups of people discussing about a certain topic, even though both groups will never ever admit that they are wrong. You dont even need to hear your opponents arguments to know that they are bad.
Please stop balance discussions. Close this thread.
Fail. Terrans want their race to be not OP, because they feel that would devalue their wins .
To be serious: I think T is OP in quite high level play. ZvT is my best match-up, however i really dislike watching 80% TvT starting from round of 16 in any decent tourney (GSL, IEM, CraftCup, ..). That's why i think there should be some T nerfs, which affect highest level play. Lower level play feels quite balanced IMHO.
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On January 21 2011 05:24 Sonictonic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 05:22 Sm3agol wrote:On January 21 2011 05:19 branflakes14 wrote:On January 21 2011 05:10 DoubleReed wrote:So much balance whine. I honestly am only recently getting good enough to really notice issues that zerg has a problem with. But personally, I think most people are far too inexperienced with the game to have a good grasp of the balance problems. Not all of us are. But really, I think Idra summed it up very well: On December 29 2010 17:08 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2010 17:01 Beef Noodles wrote:On December 29 2010 16:21 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2010 15:44 Liquid`Ret wrote:all these theories on idra ladder are untrue...he ladders to win games...just watch his stream...it also explains why zerg isnt in top10 and why there are less of us in the top200 indeed if i think i can win i stay in the game. there are times when ive left a game and my opponent couldve made a gigantic mistake and handed me the win, but thats rare and irrelevant. its just really fucking easy to lose as zerg. Do you think that zerg is currently at a disadvantage or do you think it is a momentum race that cannot lose momentum if they want to win? I know that you don't like to respond very often, but I would like to hear your views on the current state of the zerg race (without iNcontrol telling you to shut up like on SOTG lol) zerg is fucking awful clearly weakest, least reliable options early game. any viable pressure is nearly a complete allin, besides light roach aggression which is easily nullified. both t and p have lots of ways to put game ending pressure on z early and half of them arent even close to allin, and most are unscoutable and have different counters. and the idea that z is somehow the strongest late game race is fuckin absurd. hive units are nearly useless and horribly cost inefficient unless broodlords catch them off guard. ya, you can insta remax if you're allowed to get a giant econ, but remaxing on lair units vs collosus or tank based armies hardly matters when you can trade 200/200 for a tenth of their army. if z guesses, and guessing is required if t and p dont show a ridiculously early expansion, correctly and hits drone timings perfectly then they have a mid game advantage, but its not an advantage that can be used very well. its very easy for t or p to make themselves unkillable and head for that invincible late game army. z gets to use their unit advantage to tech towards hive, which can be nullified, or to expand a bunch so they can throw away a few extra 200/200 armies before getting rolled. zerg is failing massively in just about every statistic besides gsl first places. the race is fucking awful. i honestly have no idea how so many people dont acknowledge it yet. zergs performance in the foreign scene is very nearly non existent. i think morrow has won one viking cup and otherwise 0 z wins since i won mlg dc. and a pitiful number of titles before that. Seriously, Idra makes several good points relating to several areas of gameplay. His point about earlygame and lategame disadvantage actually seems pretty accurate IMO. Personally, I'm surprised that broodlords DO catch people offguard as often as they do, as it takes forever to get them (both Hive and Greater Spire morphing give you signs). But then I suppose people aren't used to needing to scout zerg that often... Maybe one day Zergs will realise that you can Fungal Growth an army and pelt them with Broodlings from out of their range. You'd think the only unit with abilities in the entire Zerg arsenal was the Queen. It's like the ability to lock an army in position is considered worthless. Facing 2 rax "all-in" every game, transitioning into marine/medivac/tank pressure while you struggle to just produce enough units to keep from getting steam rolled 4 minutes into the game doesn't leave much space to get infestors or brood lords. If only there was this structure that would act like a static defence that can move around that completly shuts down any early(4 minute yah) pressure.
yes, I would love it if zerg had such a building, that would be great... can I has?
oh, and by the way, that weird building whatchacallit... spinecrueler... or something...
no wait! it was crawlers. and before it was "s" + "type of tree"... limetree? ill go with that, slimecrawlers!
yeah, those dont quite count since 15 stimmed marines easily kills off 3 of those slimecrawlers, and support from other units barely matters. thats not what I call "shutting down early pressure".
not to mention that the terran doesn't need to fight them (ooh, look at that!), since afterall, going 2rax ISN'T AN ALL-IN! and you STILL forced the zerg into building stuff he didnt want = damage.
p.s. I don't care what you say, slimecrawlers are goddamn awful against anything that isnt a roach, hellion or stalker.
p.p.s. I know they are called s pine crawlers but they are so spineless that they don't deserve that name
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Well as people said the issue may lie in map imbalances, but there is one little thing that bothers me about Terran.
I don't want to express any misunderstanding about balance, but from my experience and from the ton of games I watched, it seems that the Marine may turn out to be a bit too effective in mid & late-game. I feel that the Marines' cost, survavibility and mobility are fine, but their DPS seems very powerful.
In my opinion the most obvious instance is the TvT matchup in which you can easily gauge the insane effectiveness of Marines. I'm quite confused and shocked: especially when you compare that matchup to BW's; in which iirc everything seems to revolve around mech and rightfully so.
So that raises the question, if the marines are so powerful even in a mirror matchup, are they as powerful in the other matchups?
But we never know, the metagame will surely evolve in such a way that marines' effectiveness becomes reasonnable.
My point of view may be mistaken though.
About Zerg I think that the standard builds (14 hatch, 14 pool, 14 hatch/15 pool, you name it) are getting a bit old and that's why Terran feel so comfortable early game. I think there is definitely a balance between the 1-base all-in builds and the 14/15 hatch builds. I don't see any reason why Zerg couldn't come up with BOs that allows pressure, expanding, mid-game transitions etc.
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I have a very hard time as terran, but that might be because I'm a macroplayer. I never 1basepush.
Against zerg I feel really weak. You can have as much rines as you want and you can split them as much as you want. If mass speedlings and muta's with good upgrades are chasing you, they dissapear very fast. I can't believe how many muta's and banelings a zerg can make on 3bases.
Against protoss it's quite even, untill collossus / HT with amulet is out. Then I feel like it's an uphill battle.
Maybe I should start abusing more 1base allin pushes?
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On January 21 2011 05:50 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 05:40 Grummler wrote:
Why so much balance whine in tl.net forums?
Thats easier. Non Terrans want terran to be OP. Thats kind of weird if you think about it. Why would you want your enemy to be stronger than you? The answer is plain simple: Because you need an excuse why you lost that recent PvT / ZvT. Losing is nothing people like to do, but if terran is op, losing to terran is fine. Its not your fault.
So, non terrans will naturally always try to make terran look OP. They could be right, but thats irrelevant, because no matter what kind of statistics they see, their conclusion will always be: terran op.
More terrans in gsl: terran op
More protoss in master league: terran op
Its the same, but vice versa with terrans. Of course you only won that recent TvP / TvZ because your were the better player. Imbalance? No way!
Most terrans will always say that terran is fine. At best there MIGHT be a small map imbalance.
So, we have 2 groups of people discussing about a certain topic, even though both groups will never ever admit that they are wrong. You dont even need to hear your opponents arguments to know that they are bad.
Please stop balance discussions. Close this thread.
Fail. Terrans want their race to be not OP, because they feel that would devalue their wins . To be serious: I think T is OP in quite high level play. ZvT is my best match-up, however i really dislike watching 80% TvT starting from round of 16 in any decent tourney (GSL, IEM, CraftCup, ..). That's why i think there should be some T nerfs, which affect highest level play. Lower level play feels quite balanced IMHO.
Or maybe you are actually wrong, and don't know what you're talking about, and Terran is not actually OP.
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On January 20 2011 19:33 PraetorianX wrote:
Terran is clearly OP, specifically marauders, stimpack, mules and planetaries.
I can agree on planetaries, not the rest.
Everyone keeps whining about mules, i would rather get chronoboost on my cc than mules
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MarineKingPrime is the living proof for terran being op!
You can make Marines only and win every game!
Oh wait he sometimes makes medivacs...
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On January 21 2011 05:51 Roblin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 05:24 Sonictonic wrote:On January 21 2011 05:22 Sm3agol wrote:On January 21 2011 05:19 branflakes14 wrote:On January 21 2011 05:10 DoubleReed wrote:So much balance whine. I honestly am only recently getting good enough to really notice issues that zerg has a problem with. But personally, I think most people are far too inexperienced with the game to have a good grasp of the balance problems. Not all of us are. But really, I think Idra summed it up very well: On December 29 2010 17:08 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2010 17:01 Beef Noodles wrote:On December 29 2010 16:21 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2010 15:44 Liquid`Ret wrote:all these theories on idra ladder are untrue...he ladders to win games...just watch his stream...it also explains why zerg isnt in top10 and why there are less of us in the top200 indeed if i think i can win i stay in the game. there are times when ive left a game and my opponent couldve made a gigantic mistake and handed me the win, but thats rare and irrelevant. its just really fucking easy to lose as zerg. Do you think that zerg is currently at a disadvantage or do you think it is a momentum race that cannot lose momentum if they want to win? I know that you don't like to respond very often, but I would like to hear your views on the current state of the zerg race (without iNcontrol telling you to shut up like on SOTG lol) zerg is fucking awful clearly weakest, least reliable options early game. any viable pressure is nearly a complete allin, besides light roach aggression which is easily nullified. both t and p have lots of ways to put game ending pressure on z early and half of them arent even close to allin, and most are unscoutable and have different counters. and the idea that z is somehow the strongest late game race is fuckin absurd. hive units are nearly useless and horribly cost inefficient unless broodlords catch them off guard. ya, you can insta remax if you're allowed to get a giant econ, but remaxing on lair units vs collosus or tank based armies hardly matters when you can trade 200/200 for a tenth of their army. if z guesses, and guessing is required if t and p dont show a ridiculously early expansion, correctly and hits drone timings perfectly then they have a mid game advantage, but its not an advantage that can be used very well. its very easy for t or p to make themselves unkillable and head for that invincible late game army. z gets to use their unit advantage to tech towards hive, which can be nullified, or to expand a bunch so they can throw away a few extra 200/200 armies before getting rolled. zerg is failing massively in just about every statistic besides gsl first places. the race is fucking awful. i honestly have no idea how so many people dont acknowledge it yet. zergs performance in the foreign scene is very nearly non existent. i think morrow has won one viking cup and otherwise 0 z wins since i won mlg dc. and a pitiful number of titles before that. Seriously, Idra makes several good points relating to several areas of gameplay. His point about earlygame and lategame disadvantage actually seems pretty accurate IMO. Personally, I'm surprised that broodlords DO catch people offguard as often as they do, as it takes forever to get them (both Hive and Greater Spire morphing give you signs). But then I suppose people aren't used to needing to scout zerg that often... Maybe one day Zergs will realise that you can Fungal Growth an army and pelt them with Broodlings from out of their range. You'd think the only unit with abilities in the entire Zerg arsenal was the Queen. It's like the ability to lock an army in position is considered worthless. Facing 2 rax "all-in" every game, transitioning into marine/medivac/tank pressure while you struggle to just produce enough units to keep from getting steam rolled 4 minutes into the game doesn't leave much space to get infestors or brood lords. If only there was this structure that would act like a static defence that can move around that completly shuts down any early(4 minute yah) pressure. yes, I would love it if zerg had such a building, that would be great... can I has? oh, and by the way, that weird building whatchacallit... spinecrueler... or something... no wait! it was crawlers. and before it was "s" + "type of tree"... limetree? ill go with that, slimecrawlers! yeah, those dont quite count since 15 stimmed marines easily kills off 3 of those slimecrawlers, and support from other units barely matters. thats not what I call "shutting down early pressure". not to mention that the terran doesn't need to fight them (ooh, look at that!), since afterall, going 2rax ISN'T AN ALL-IN! and you STILL forced the zerg into building stuff he didnt want = damage. p.s. I don't care what you say, slimecrawlers are goddamn awful against anything that isnt a roach, hellion or stalker. p.p.s. I know they are called s pine crawlers but they are so spineless that they don't deserve that name
Yeah, Terran will sure have 15 stimmed marines at the 4 minute mark in the game.
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Guys, it really doesn't have anything to do with the races or the units, its the map... there is already another thread about how they are changing the GSL maps. they are throwing out 4 of them because they are racially imbalanced.
It has nothing to do with units, but more to do with rush distance and expansion availability. Zerg likes expansions, so maps like Jungle Basin and close positions metalopolis are really strong for terran because they can match zerg very easily and deny 3rds....
Long distance metalopolis is likewise favored for zerg in the opposite way: The rush distance is so long that zerg can easily defend and expand. This is why GSL is testing a bunch of candidate maps to improve the balance of play.
Also, its due to Terran having strength in the early part of the game, and losing strength in the late game because of a reliance on low tier combat units. Alot of games in this GSL have been short because there have been a lot of Terran allins. Even pro Terran players are afraid of playing late game because Terran loses momentum against some high tier unit comps like Sentry + Colossus + High Templar (which is like Exodia the forbidden one, get all of them together, and you win the game).
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EPT
