EPTWhy so much Terran success in GSL? - Page 18
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Adonisto
Canada191 Posts
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SkeweredFromEarToEye
Canada19 Posts
toss get a time resource boost. zerg get a larvae resource boost. terran get a "vision" resource, a "supply" resource, and literal funding. blizzard wont recognize it because "the stats are even". well, the stats are even because people use terran as a crutch and more skilled players tend to be more principled. | ||
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NikonTC
United Kingdom418 Posts
On January 21 2011 04:22 imbs wrote: m8 no one can achieve objectivity. you can at least try though which idk about you but it does not seem that alot of people do that. people literally think 70%+ of the best players in the world play terran? My point was that you're not being objective, yet you were telling someone else that they should be just because they disagreed with you. Now you're saying noone can be objective? I've been inspired to come up with a new theory. Terrans are just better players. TvT is the most intense matchup, with very high micro and macro requirements, no a-moving is possible you have to do everything patiently and precisely. This sort of training sets all terrans apart from protoss or zerg who don't get this kind of practice regularly. No I'm not serious, but it makes about as much sense as most of the arguments here. | ||
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imbs
United Kingdom320 Posts
On January 21 2011 04:22 Diks wrote: Poll option 4 : Marine King Prime, Jinro and MVP are just solid gosus. no races imba involved here It has to do with the persons playing as such a great level that they arrived in semi. even if thats true, then how come players like tsl rain got to last gsl's final? how come the code a semis is 4 terran. how come ever since sc2 launched terran have dominated everything except during a few weeks just before nestea won gsl? my motive for thinking terran is op is not from my own play, im not nearly good enough yet to have an opinion on that. i sit and watch gsl and just cannot help but think that as foxer destroys everything even in the lategame where he only builds one type of (tier 1) unit, and the only time other races win tournaments is normally when they are significantly better than the terran they are facing. nestea is gonna have to totally outplay mvp to win. if they are evenly matched at all he wont win. | ||
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Gonzodamus
United States273 Posts
On January 21 2011 02:43 Toxigen wrote: Because this outcome is so improbable (all the best players independently just happen to pick Terran and all the scrubs happen to pick the others) that it's not worth the time or energy to reasonably entertain. Unless you're trolling. The alternative is that Marine King, MVP and Jinro are worse than the people they beat. I don't think that's the case. They played better and beat them - simple as that. | ||
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Scrimpton
United Kingdom465 Posts
On January 21 2011 04:25 SkeweredFromEarToEye wrote: i think its redundant to have "player preference" in there, the reason being you already have "maps favor terran" and "terran are OP" in the poll. people tend to prefer terran BECAUSE the maps favor them, and because they're OP. toss get a time resource boost. zerg get a larvae resource boost. terran get a "vision" resource, a "supply" resource, and literal funding. blizzard wont recognize it because "the stats are even". well, the stats are even because people use terran as a crutch and more skilled players tend to be more principled. Apologise for playing that race? Really? After all the nerfs.. not a single buff and thats still the party line? Ahh well, Time to stop reading these posts  .Decaying-leaf league syndrome in here. | ||
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Duban
United States548 Posts
% of players on teamliquid that play Terran = 25% Coincidence? Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166233 | ||
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Knutzi
Norway664 Posts
they have very strong allins and very strong defense and they are also the race that wins on build order and never lose because of it. an example could be protoss went for early stargate play and terran went cloak banshee.. freewin for terran also the maps seem to favor terran heavily, will be interesting too see if the new maps will help for next season | ||
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DerNebel
Denmark648 Posts
This will equalize but not before a couple of months have passed. | ||
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Mercury-
Great Britain804 Posts
On January 21 2011 04:25 SkeweredFromEarToEye wrote: i think its redundant to have "player preference" in there, the reason being you already have "maps favor terran" and "terran are OP" in the poll. people tend to prefer terran BECAUSE the maps favor them, and because they're OP. toss get a time resource boost. zerg get a larvae resource boost. terran get a "vision" resource, a "supply" resource, and literal funding. blizzard wont recognize it because "the stats are even". well, the stats are even because people use terran as a crutch and more skilled players tend to be more principled. Like who? Idra who played Terran in SC1, then went Toss in SC2 when they were undoubtedly the strongest and after they got some nerfs switched to Zerg with 1 food roaches? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On January 20 2011 19:15 iEchoic wrote: If you took out the results from maps like Jungle Basin and steppes, Z would be killing. The maps are the primary problem, so just wait and see until next season when Gardens of Aiur and other hilariously Z-favored maps come into play. These things are like shakuras cross position except with a natural in the back, longer distances, and a narrow ramp. You know this post shows you haven't really been able to play terran like others (ones who can macro). I think before you make posts like this you should watch good terrans macro and realize that it is possible to play macro games vs zerg and win. Just because you can't do it for whatever reason doesn't mean terran can't beat zerg. Have you watched any of the matches on those new maps btw? From gisado or w/e? Terran has won on those maps more then zerg has when I have watched. Think you need to pay more attention before posting something like this ^^ | ||
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SkeweredFromEarToEye
Canada19 Posts
On January 21 2011 04:29 Scrimpton wrote: Apologise for playing that race? Really? After all the nerfs.. not a single buff and thats still the party line? Ahh well, Time to stop reading these posts .Decaying-leaf league syndrome in here. decaying leaf league syndrome? fyi, i'm currently 2400 master. you know whats really sad? a friend of mine got sc2 recently. he plays terran, and he's been winning a lot online. he was telling me that his strat was to "build a whole lot of the football guys". and when i mentioned mules he asked me what those were. don't get me wrong, he plays a ton of RTS so he has the basics down. but it's just...it's sad what terran players can get away with NOT KNOWING | ||
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Zorgaz
Sweden2951 Posts
I'm a terran player so I'm only going to bring up the matchups that involve T since i am a newbie when it comes to ZvP. I honestly think that terran as a race is balanced. I especially feel that the TvZ matchup is very fair for both sides, although it is commonly known that way to many match favor Terran alot. But on maps such as Xel Naga, Shakuras (Cross Positions) and Metapolis (Cross Positions) the matchups is really balanced. Although Metapolis (Close Positions) makes it really tough for zerg, so the map isn't perfect. So as stated, TvZ is good. The problem doesn't lie with the matchup but instead it is a map issue. And from my point of view i can easily say that i think that TvZ is the most entertaining and dynamic matchup to watch and play. TvP is a whole other story. It really needs some fixing, but there are hard solved problems. Firstly its the thing that terran can pull off sick 1 base timing pushes (That almost always includes Scv's) that are able to win them ridiculously easy against protoss players. This makes alot of protoss players mad, and leads them to believe that Terran is too strong. And its not only newbs doing this. I have seen the great terran player Kas pull Scv's and win with a strong push alot of times, both on 1/2 base. But lets look at it from another point of view. Why is it that it is the Terran race that has become known for these pushes? Why do Zerg and Protoss almost never do it, and why do probes and drones never get used for pushes while scv's so often are. There are of course alot of answers to this, major ones like (mules) and minor ones like, (5 + health than other workers and able to repair themselves and mech units.) but i won't address them right now. I think that the biggest reason for terran doing these pushes against protoss is because of the complications in the matchup. It is because alot of terran players really struggle in Macro games with protoss. I can say for a fact that i have almost never won versus a protoss player of similiar skills in games that have gone to the late game. At the same time i do not feel that i struggle in the long time macro games against zerg players on my skill level, so there most be other reasons then the fact that I'm a worse macro player then all the protoss i face. And sure, every1 has a better and worse matchup that they face. Some people are better against some races and worse against others, so i can't be 100% accurate. I'm not implying that Protoss are overpowered, but i do think that protoss have it just slightly easier to win versus terran all the way from Bronze league to the higher Diamond leagues. And i am not saying that Terran can't win macro games against protoss. Because they certainly can proven by the awesome LiquidJinro and many others. I've seen alot of Koreans in the GSL opt for a FE against Protoss which is great. And on the pro level I'm sure that if anything Terran is the stronger race. But not on all levels, why? It has alot to do with the fact that protoss have tougher and more expensive units that terran. I'm just gonna take the easiest example to make the text shorter (Yes it is already pretty long) : If you look on the papers the Zealot is a far stronger unit than the marine. And one zealot can easily kill two marines without any micro. But when micro is implied to the units it all changes. Suddenly 2 marines can kill off a Zealot without losing any hp if they are microed correctly. In the lower leagues they aren't most of the time resulting in the Zealots having the edge. But then when it comes to better players it changes and marines suddenly gain the edge of the Zealots. As seen in the gsl. I am sure that Terran may very well be the strongest race if the player playing is capable of astounding micro. But, most of us aren't which makes the matchup fair, and even gives the Protoss the edge in some cases. Then again some protoss units such as the Sentry requires a good amount of micro, and i must say that just as marines may be OP in the hand of a great player, so is Forcefields. Protoss also have stronger T3 Units. The collosi + HT with storms are capable of slaughtering so much, while units like Thors, as strong as they can be, aren't. And even though the Carrier is underused i still think it's way better than BC's. So when T players have found out that winning over a Protoss in a macro game is harder, many winning-hungry players have strived to find new tactics to beat the Toss. Resulting in the All-ins. I can honestly say that I don't know exactly what balances sound be implemented, but i think TvP needs some looking into, because we all can't be the elite players. But i still think decent players should be able to play macro games in all matchups fairly. | ||
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NikonTC
United Kingdom418 Posts
On January 21 2011 04:36 SkeweredFromEarToEye wrote: decaying leaf league syndrome? fyi, i'm currently 2400 master. you know whats really sad? a friend of mine got sc2 recently. he plays terran, and he's been winning a lot online. he was telling me that his strat was to "build a whole lot of the football guys". and when i mentioned mules he asked me what those were. don't get me wrong, he plays a ton of RTS so he has the basics down. but it's just...it's sad what terran players can get away with NOT KNOWING Oh my god this post made my brain hurt. I'm out of this thread. I'm going back to the Bronze Practice EU chat channel. Those guys actually want to get better and work hard to improve their own game. I much prefer their company to diamond+ people supposedly around my own skill level that hit a problem and start crying about imbalance rather than just learning how to fix it. | ||
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Scrimpton
United Kingdom465 Posts
On January 21 2011 04:36 SkeweredFromEarToEye wrote: decaying leaf league syndrome? fyi, i'm currently 2400 master. you know whats really sad? a friend of mine got sc2 recently. he plays terran, and he's been winning a lot online. he was telling me that his strat was to "build a whole lot of the football guys". and when i mentioned mules he asked me what those were. don't get me wrong, he plays a ton of RTS so he has the basics down. but it's just...it's sad what terran players can get away with NOT KNOWING My wife just started taking interest in the game.. and she's winning games as Z making "those fast hopping bugs".. dont get me wrong, she plays a ton of rts so she has the basics down. but it's just...it's sad what Zerg player can get away with NO KNOWING | ||
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Scrimpton
United Kingdom465 Posts
On January 21 2011 04:43 NikonTC wrote: Oh my god this post made my brain hurt. I'm out of this thread. I'm going back to the Bronze Practice EU chat channel. Those guys actually want to get better and work hard to improve their own game. I much prefer their company to diamond+ people supposedly around my own skill level that hit a problem and start crying about imbalance rather than just learning how to fix it. I absolutely fucking love you NikonTC. you perfectly encapsulated what is wrong with threads like these. " I much prefer their company to diamond+ people supposedly around my own skill level that hit a problem and start crying about imbalance rather than just learning how to fix it." This sort of thing should scroll past on a nice banner at the top of the website every now and then, Or pop up every time somebody posts in a thread, like a little tick box you have to read that calms people down and forces them to acknowledge that their own shortcomings do a lot more harm than mules | ||
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Toxigen
United States390 Posts
On January 21 2011 04:28 Gonzodamus wrote: The alternative is that Marine King, MVP and Jinro are worse than the people they beat. I don't think that's the case. They played better and beat them - simple as that. Nope, this isn't what you're saying. These 3 players being good doesn't explain success and overrepresentation in all rounds of the GSL. I'm not saying that MKP, MvP or Jinro are bad players. They're amazing players. But having 3-4 amazing Terran players doesn't account for the near constant 50% representation in multiple rounds. For your option, we'd have to be assuming that even the good Terran players (not greats like MKP, MvP or Jinro) are all, on average, superior to their respective peers playing the other races (like in Code A). That's where your hypothesis gets ridiculous. | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
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SkeweredFromEarToEye
Canada19 Posts
On January 21 2011 04:43 NikonTC wrote: Oh my god this post made my brain hurt. I'm out of this thread. I'm going back to the Bronze Practice EU chat channel. Those guys actually want to get better and work hard to improve their own game. I much prefer their company to diamond+ people supposedly around my own skill level that hit a problem and start crying about imbalance rather than just learning how to fix it. i didnt hit a problem. im not crying about imbalance. im merely making speculations. terran are OP, but i dont have a problem with them. but they are OP. | ||
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FreezingAssassin
United States455 Posts
On January 21 2011 04:18 Scrimpton wrote: Sorry man, 750 games played as Z, 500 as P. 25 as T. Terran isn't my race, the problem is it's EMBARRASSING to be represented as a Zerg or Protoss by threads like these. I agree here. Maybe another thing thats a contributing factor is Terrans psychological warfare. They WANT to seem Feared. They WANT to look OP. They WANT any factor that makes them better. This lets them to think their ahead so already they have an advantage. Every waking second your sitting their your thinking....."Well fuck, why should I try when I know they are OP?" So in return you don't try as hard while the MM stim and kills your base and you sit back and instead of microing/macroing you think there's nothing you can do. Play more, get better QQ less /End | ||
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