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[Champion] Vladimir - Page 3

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Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
January 07 2011 14:39 GMT
#41
I would like to nitpick 2 things: Abyssal Scepter reduction instead of penetration is important because the reduction helps your teammates, not because it can reduce magic resist below zero. Since reduction is applied before penetration, it can reduce below 0 ONLY if combined with spells that reduce magic resistance, and these are hard to come by.
Zhonya's Hourglass is cost inefficient unless you want the active or fill your last slot with something really expensive. You get less stats for it's cost than you would with the small items, which is really poor for something so expensive. Since as a defensive caster item it kind of sucks, maybe armor/lvl seals might not be unreasonable.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
ghen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1356 Posts
January 07 2011 14:54 GMT
#42
Added your Abyssal words. As for Zhonyas that's up to individual builds. Most end game items are cost-inefficient if you don't put a value on their passives. Their main bonus is they only take up one spot.
Kaniol
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Poland5551 Posts
January 07 2011 15:21 GMT
#43
Zhonya still allows for a bitchy "pool -> zhonya -> pool i'm invincible" vlad play
Exadra
Profile Joined December 2010
21 Posts
January 07 2011 16:21 GMT
#44
If the enemy team does not comprise of more than 2 people who get mr early, I would highly recommend grabbing sorc boots over anything else. You can swap it out later on for merc/lucidity if you want, but having the 49 mpen at lvl9 after rushing sorc boots and haunting guise is amazing. You'll be doing full damage to anyone in the game that hasn't bought mr items yet.
Exadra
Profile Joined December 2010
21 Posts
January 07 2011 16:25 GMT
#45
On January 07 2011 13:38 Juicyfruit wrote:
The loop is infinite, but it converges pretty quickly.

Same as with Kayle

100AD gives 30AP, which gives 3AD, which gives 1 AP, which gives 0.1AD....

etc

Add it all up and you still only get

103AD and 31AP


Riot specifically mentioned when vlad came out that his passive would not loop. kayle's and jax+ atmas does, but vlad's does not.
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
January 07 2011 17:22 GMT
#46
O~ that's weird and inconsistent, but good to know.
Yiruru
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada690 Posts
January 07 2011 18:30 GMT
#47
I would get Abysmal over Void on Vlad in most situations, since you can just roll squishies with RQEWEQ and 70 MPen. Void is usually one of my last items, unless you have 3+ AP Carries and they start stacking MR on every hero
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-07 19:18:56
January 07 2011 19:15 GMT
#48
On January 08 2011 01:21 Exadra wrote:
If the enemy team does not comprise of more than 2 people who get mr early, I would highly recommend grabbing sorc boots over anything else. You can swap it out later on for merc/lucidity if you want, but having the 49 mpen at lvl9 after rushing sorc boots and haunting guise is amazing. You'll be doing full damage to anyone in the game that hasn't bought mr items yet.

Strictly speaking, masteries + sorc boots does full damage to anyone who hasn't bought MR yet (the base being 30), or at least close enough to full damage that you won't get full value out of Haunting Guise. You only need the Guise if they got Mercs or any other Null-Magic Mantle-based item (e,g. Lichbane). If their team actually gets Negatron-based items, you're better off with Lucidity + Void Staff.
Moderator
Unentschieden
Profile Joined August 2007
Germany1471 Posts
January 07 2011 19:44 GMT
#49
On January 08 2011 02:22 Juicyfruit wrote:
O~ that's weird and inconsistent, but good to know.


It´s not. The infinte loop USED to work but doesn´t anymore on anyone.
Goshawk.
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United Kingdom5338 Posts
January 08 2011 00:29 GMT
#50
My current vlad build:
9/0/21 maxing cdr and no mana caster stuff.
Red mpen, yellow hp/lvl, flat cdr blue, hp quints. (Though I think I would run flat AP quints if I had them).
Ghost/ignite.
QWQE then R>Q>E>W

Start with Dorans shield, play fairly defensively until 7/9 where q gets low enough cd that you can use it to harass. Use W to escape from any ganks. Then once you are higher level and with a shop trip you can easily own your lane up with your ridiculous low cd spells.

Item build:
Dorans Shield
CDR boots
Spirit Visage
Deathcap
Rylais
Hourglass

If you feel like your team is slightly retarded or you are getting focused a lot you can get Hourglass before rylais as it makes you quite a bit harder to kill combined with pool.

Basically, get 40% cdr then own everything with your spells.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-08 00:43:44
January 08 2011 00:38 GMT
#51
What's the point of running 9/0/21, CDR boots, AND Spirit Visage? You over-cap CDR that way, and leave no room for a Blue Elixir to fill in.

If you're going to cap CDR that quickly, at least cut enough CDR runes to hit exactly 40%--you've got 9% from masteries and 27% from items meaning you need 6-7 CDR glyphs and can put something else in the remaining slots.

Personally, I'd rather just skip Visage, and use a Blue Elixir late game if you want to fill in that last 10% CDR for a big fight.
Moderator
Goshawk.
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United Kingdom5338 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-08 00:52:42
January 08 2011 00:44 GMT
#52
In game I had like 39% (I think) with kindlegem+cdr boots so I just upgraded the gem anyway. (no blue pot involved)

Ye, skipping spirit visage might be better, but haven't done the maths behind it.
Exadra
Profile Joined December 2010
21 Posts
January 08 2011 01:11 GMT
#53
On January 08 2011 04:15 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2011 01:21 Exadra wrote:
If the enemy team does not comprise of more than 2 people who get mr early, I would highly recommend grabbing sorc boots over anything else. You can swap it out later on for merc/lucidity if you want, but having the 49 mpen at lvl9 after rushing sorc boots and haunting guise is amazing. You'll be doing full damage to anyone in the game that hasn't bought mr items yet.

Strictly speaking, masteries + sorc boots does full damage to anyone who hasn't bought MR yet (the base being 30), or at least close enough to full damage that you won't get full value out of Haunting Guise. You only need the Guise if they got Mercs or any other Null-Magic Mantle-based item (e,g. Lichbane). If their team actually gets Negatron-based items, you're better off with Lucidity + Void Staff.


The problem is that most people get merc treads anyway, so they'll be up at around 50+mr. This is why I go for 49 mpen with sorc and guise. After my core (guise, deathcap, rylais) i also do abyssal for an additional 20 mr reduction, which is great and allows me to do decent damage even to tanks, in addition to getting me up to 100mr for some survivability
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 08 2011 01:53 GMT
#54
On January 08 2011 09:44 Goshawk. wrote:
In game I had like 39% (I think) with kindlegem+cdr boots so I just upgraded the gem anyway. (no blue pot involved)

Ye, skipping spirit visage might be better, but haven't done the maths behind it.

It might just be my personal preference, but I've never really liked the idea of hard-capping CDR off items. There are just too many sources of temporary or incidental CDR that can end up going to waste if you decide to hard-cap CDR.
Moderator
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
January 08 2011 09:50 GMT
#55
On January 08 2011 10:53 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2011 09:44 Goshawk. wrote:
In game I had like 39% (I think) with kindlegem+cdr boots so I just upgraded the gem anyway. (no blue pot involved)

Ye, skipping spirit visage might be better, but haven't done the maths behind it.

It might just be my personal preference, but I've never really liked the idea of hard-capping CDR off items. There are just too many sources of temporary or incidental CDR that can end up going to waste if you decide to hard-cap CDR.

Soul Shroud and Blue Buff. Too many?
Some champs have CDR abilities, but you know about those before you buy items.

If there was no hardcap, CDR would have to be a multiplicative stat like dodge, or else it would be way too good.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Unentschieden
Profile Joined August 2007
Germany1471 Posts
January 08 2011 12:39 GMT
#56
You shouldn´t gimp yourself just because you think you might be less efficient sometimes. Max CDR on Vlad is simply too good for Transfusion and pool to complain about "wasting" CDR - which is a suprisingly cheap stat for what it does. It´s the same concept in a way as buying banshees on Mundo.
Soulshroud is a rarely used item, especially after the new boots arrived. Vlad never ever gets bluebuff except from killing an enemy. It´s not like you passivly waste much.
BlackHat
Profile Joined April 2010
United States264 Posts
January 09 2011 14:46 GMT
#57
I have to disagree with not using your ult til the end of the fight. It increases all damage on them by 14% and your wasting a ton of potential damage if you use it to catch escapees, not to mention if you lose the fight you may not get to use it at all that way. Obviously I am not saying you initiate with it but putting it down as soon as you get a decent shot can really make or break a teamfight.

I just don't think Vlad brings much else to a fight other than that. If you can get close spamming tides can hurt them a lot, but if not all you can do is q a few times which does ok damage but is not very threatening.
Borsalino for life.
Kaniol
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Poland5551 Posts
January 09 2011 19:52 GMT
#58
On January 09 2011 23:46 BlackHat wrote:
I have to disagree with not using your ult til the end of the fight. It increases all damage on them by 14% and your wasting a ton of potential damage if you use it to catch escapees, not to mention if you lose the fight you may not get to use it at all that way. Obviously I am not saying you initiate with it but putting it down as soon as you get a decent shot can really make or break a teamfight.

I just don't think Vlad brings much else to a fight other than that. If you can get close spamming tides can hurt them a lot, but if not all you can do is q a few times which does ok damage but is not very threatening.

Initiating with his ult is even worse. I think the best way to ulti in teamfight is just like with most aoe non-cc ults - wait till both sides engage and then ult. If you ult too early enemies will just escape and fight a moment later with your ult on cd
Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
January 09 2011 20:03 GMT
#59
On January 08 2011 21:39 Unentschieden wrote:
You shouldn´t gimp yourself just because you think you might be less efficient sometimes. Max CDR on Vlad is simply too good for Transfusion and pool to complain about "wasting" CDR - which is a suprisingly cheap stat for what it does. It´s the same concept in a way as buying banshees on Mundo.
Soulshroud is a rarely used item, especially after the new boots arrived. Vlad never ever gets bluebuff except from killing an enemy. It´s not like you passivly waste much.


u guys are forgetting blue elixir
cheap ass cdr and AP boost, which vlads who have their main items should be pumping for the rest of the game (getting it early is slightly gimped bcuz of the nerf, but it is still a good boost once u have your main items).

hardcapping CDR on casters is generally inefficient because most casters can benefit from blue buff and blue elixir (or one or the other for sure) both of which give massive cdr. itemizing for cdr is generally less cost efficient than itemizing for AP because you pay for these passives, which as mentioned can be easily obtained from either blue buff or blue elixir. i would rather pay for deathcap passive and some other kickass AP item with a nice passive (like rylai!) than for items with cdr as one of their main selling points. If nothing else, itemizing to cdrcap is extremely inefficient lategame (if not midgame as well).
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Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
January 09 2011 20:07 GMT
#60
On January 10 2011 04:52 Kaniol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2011 23:46 BlackHat wrote:
I have to disagree with not using your ult til the end of the fight. It increases all damage on them by 14% and your wasting a ton of potential damage if you use it to catch escapees, not to mention if you lose the fight you may not get to use it at all that way. Obviously I am not saying you initiate with it but putting it down as soon as you get a decent shot can really make or break a teamfight.

I just don't think Vlad brings much else to a fight other than that. If you can get close spamming tides can hurt them a lot, but if not all you can do is q a few times which does ok damage but is not very threatening.

Initiating with his ult is even worse. I think the best way to ulti in teamfight is just like with most aoe non-cc ults - wait till both sides engage and then ult. If you ult too early enemies will just escape and fight a moment later with your ult on cd


yes once one side or another is committed to fighting (like u catch their carry in a cc chain thru something like blitz grab -> stunfest or something and their team waltzes in to save him/her) then its most efficient to use on as many people as possible for aoe damage gayness. saving it for the finishing effect so that you can get a penta or using it as soon as you can hit all 5 (but your team doesn't have the mechanism to make them stay ) its either troll or badworthy lol

old galio ult + old vlad ult used to be ridiculously efficient because of the high amounts of damage galio's ult output along with vlad being able to tides + transfusion during the duration, you could probably almost kill their entire team that way lol
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