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On November 18 2010 04:55 Sufficiency wrote:
This is not real news. But I seriously doubt any person who does this for a living can produce work with the kind of quality I satisfy with. However, if a student is close to failing, perhaps hiring someone can get a boost.
Of course it's cheating...
It really isn't that hard. Some people are good at research, and at writing.
On November 18 2010 05:52 BottleAbuser wrote:
I don't see how he could write college-level papers on hard science subjects with just a few hours of googling, unless he really is a genius. The average paper I see has 10 technical terms in the first sentence, which makes utterly no sense unless you know their definitions which are often whole paragraphs themselves, sometimes containing even more technical terms. Try to fit the terms that appear important into random sentences and you'll end up with absolute garbage that makes the submitter look like he didn't learn a damn thing at college.
I conclude that he writes mostly for humanities courses, in which opinion is everything (as long as its not your own, so you can name drop).
It really isn't that hard. Like him, I can easily understand things that are not mathimatics (and I'm asian, go figure).
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After several years of full time academic writing, I'm pretty sure he can do it better than we can even hope to imagine. Congrats for his success, and his coming out. And that he's tired of the bull where teachers can't teach the students (or more likely the student is too dumb to learn).
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On November 19 2010 04:19 crazeman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 11:45 MadVillain wrote:On November 18 2010 11:13 L0CUST. wrote:On November 18 2010 10:57 MadVillain wrote:
I have to consistently disagree with people who say that the current academic system is "deeply flawed." Obviously there could be substantial improvements but I think how it is now is acceptable.
I'm in the sciences so maybe its different, but you can't really get away with bullshitting. If you're a student with a high GPA it means you put in an immense amount of work, either that or you're a genius. Most of the time it's the former. In science at any legit university you need to know you're shit and the only way to get by is to study hard.
The educational system was built to supply factories with competent employees to run them. The concept was, people would go to college to learn and become educated enough to work at factories. In return for going to college they gained "job security" as in they could be fairly certain that they could hold the job for however long they wanted to work there, and not have to worry about being laid off. Well, times have changes. People are no longer granted the same "job security" and the jobs that pay for people to simply go to work and put in time are becoming outsourced or the pay reduced considerably. The jobs that pay well involve different skills now than they did many years ago. The education system hasn't changed at all to accommodate this, which is sad considering how much the world has changed. I don't know what school you went to, but I went to GT for a couple of years (30k a semester for powerpoints got me to leave), and most of my friends and I "bullshitted" our way to 3.0+ GPAs. You don't have to "know" anything, you just need to know where to look for the right information. 1hr per class per week definitely isn't an immense amount of work. I'm currently enrolled in ChemE at the university of minnesota. I can tell you that there is no way putting a mere 1hr per class per week would get you any higher than a 2.0. Its simply impossible, the work load is to high, the concepts and problems too difficult to simply "look for the right information." I can say this is true for almost any engineering, tho chemE is particularly difficult from the general consensus. As far as job security goes, these days graduating with an engineering degree is as secure as you can get really, there is always demand and as long as you make yourself a good candidate you will get a decent job. But I don't see how can pass an extremely difficult exam without actually knowing what you're doing. Speaking of which I need to go study for a couple hours. Ney all night... sigh shurg its not "impossible". I knew a friend's brother who rarely studied at all for his undergrad degree when he was going for pre-med. He'd be taking "hard" classes like organic chemistry (I've never taken it so but a lot of people bitch about how hard orgo is), never go to class, and just show up for the test and ace everything. well he's a doctor now making a bajillion a year.
There are lots of classes that I never go to lecture for that I have gotten A's in, but that doesn't mean that I didn't have to put time into the problem sets and projects.
The only classes I've taken right now that could plausibly take less than an hour per week of work are my math classes and stats class. But I personally take about 2 hours per week for those classes.
But I really think the guy in the article is full of shit, or at least inflating what he does heavily. The idea of slamming out a doctoral thesis in any subject that you've had no formal education on using only Google is just not very believable to me, much less in 2 days. Extremely capable people still take months to do their thesis.
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On November 18 2010 10:30 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 10:26 Capook wrote:
The real questions are,
What law does this violate?
How do we throw this guy in jail? the ghost writer isn't violating any laws. the students who plagiarize his work are up for explusion/suspension or w/e the school's rule is. There's no reason why he should be in jail
There must be a law against receiving money to help people commit a crime. If not, there should be...
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Just a point I don't think people understand, the student's that are cheating are obviously going to be illiterate, etc.. it doesn't mean that every student in that subject is dumb, don't take it personal. Also, not surprised about the education majors, it makes tons of sense, me being an education major, the amount of hate towards the education system knows no bounds
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On November 19 2010 05:02 Capook wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 10:30 Roe wrote:On November 18 2010 10:26 Capook wrote:
The real questions are,
What law does this violate?
How do we throw this guy in jail? the ghost writer isn't violating any laws. the students who plagiarize his work are up for explusion/suspension or w/e the school's rule is. There's no reason why he should be in jail There must be a law against receiving money to help people commit a crime. If not, there should be...
really, you want a guy who helps people to cheat in jail??? That seems like the hugest waste of tax payer money in the world, the students obviously are at fault here, not this guy. Even then, I don't want any of these people in jail.
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On November 19 2010 05:02 Capook wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 10:30 Roe wrote:On November 18 2010 10:26 Capook wrote:
The real questions are,
What law does this violate?
How do we throw this guy in jail? the ghost writer isn't violating any laws. the students who plagiarize his work are up for explusion/suspension or w/e the school's rule is. There's no reason why he should be in jail There must be a law against receiving money to help people commit a crime. If not, there should be...
Cheating on college essays probably can't amount to anything more than a petty civil crime at most.
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On November 18 2010 04:59 orgolove wrote:
eh, I bet I can do this shit too, but 66k a year isn't much. -_-
66k/yr isn't much?
may i ask how old you are, work/educational experience?
66k/yr is a solid salary especially for something that apparently is easy as hell for the person in the OP.
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I doubt this guy can write a good paper on something that he doesn't know much about. So unless he's doing a LOT of research for some of these more complex papers ... they are probably pretty bad papers that will get you average to bad grades. You really cannot talk about certain complex topics without having a decent background in them. Maybe he is some genius savant writer who can crank out 70 pages a day on quantum physics and the current manifestations in breakthrough technologies today, but personally I doubt it. Often times these papers also need proper citations and references so unless he's reading up on all these references, he won't have time to write the actual paper ...
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United States20254 Posts
On November 19 2010 05:53 lac29 wrote:
I doubt this guy can write a good paper on something that he doesn't know much about. So unless he's doing a LOT of research for some of these more complex papers ... they are probably pretty bad papers that will get you average to bad grades. You really cannot talk about certain complex topics without having a decent background in them. Maybe he is some genius savant writer who can crank out 70 pages a day on quantum physics and the current manifestations in breakthrough technologies today, but personally I doubt it. Often times these papers also need proper citations and references so unless he's reading up on all these references, he won't have time to write the actual paper ...
Like what was stated before the people paying him give him a lot of the research/citations/their ideas for the project and basically have him put it all together in written form. Anyway it sucks that this goes on but not suprising due to the high competition and the overall lack of patience and work ethic.
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On November 18 2010 04:59 orgolove wrote:
eh, I bet I can do this shit too, but 66k a year isn't much. -_-
ahk-gosu is that you?
not that surprising. my cousin's husband's masters thesis was blatantly taken and published by some university professor in china. he found out then just extorted a load of money from him.
it's sad how far money can take you.
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I love writing my own papers. I'm a history major, and I don't understand why it wouldn't be enjoyable to further delve into a topic that you clearly like (seeing as you're likely majoring in it), and get to provide your own opinion on it.
O_o?
I'm at a loss honestly. Why would someone do this again?
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On November 19 2010 06:03 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 05:53 lac29 wrote:
I doubt this guy can write a good paper on something that he doesn't know much about. So unless he's doing a LOT of research for some of these more complex papers ... they are probably pretty bad papers that will get you average to bad grades. You really cannot talk about certain complex topics without having a decent background in them. Maybe he is some genius savant writer who can crank out 70 pages a day on quantum physics and the current manifestations in breakthrough technologies today, but personally I doubt it. Often times these papers also need proper citations and references so unless he's reading up on all these references, he won't have time to write the actual paper ... Like what was stated before the people paying him give him a lot of the research/citations/their ideas for the project and basically have him put it all together in written form. Anyway it sucks that this goes on but not suprising due to the high competition and the overall lack of patience and work ethic.
It's one thing to be given all the references ... but you actually need to read them to digest all the info in order to actually WRITE the paper. I still doubt he can write a B+ paper for something complex without spending more time than he seems to claim. Seriously ... very very few people can crank out 70 pages a day on anything, not even mentioning proper academic paper.
I have no doubt he's doing some simpler papers regularly and quickly, as well as them getting A's. But unless he's given a lot of time, there is very little chance his quantum physics and modern practical applications 70 page paper will get a B+. Obviously there are a lot of factors including how strict the teacher grading it is, but I think with these kinds of "exciting" anonymous articles, you always have to question how much they are exaggerating.
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I work at a library, and the amount of students that come in that can't create a properly structured paragraph, let alone a whole paper, is astounding.
I spend a good part of each day explaining how to copy things off wiki, as if I didn't know why they were doing it. They don't even have the smarts to change the font.
I never realized how well I did in school just by writing my own papers, coming up with my own ideas and doing my own research. HighSchool kids who don't know how to use an Index, don't use encyclopedias, and have NO idea how to find things in a library outside of me rounding up all the books they need. It's quite depressing in one way, but quite re-affirming that my work in high-school, college, really payed off in more ways than I realized. Just in terms of being able to integrate ideas and form a coherent statement, let alone being able to make an "A" paper.
I think this will get worse as time goes on, with the internet and basically now, the business of cheating your way through school. Technology has made it all the easier- and the demand is greater than ever. I'm sort-of surprised its already happening at the PhD level, but... I figure it was bound to happen anyways.
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You think people actually read the entire doctoral thesis?
No. The mindset people get into when reading those things is the same as this ghostwriter's: It is an out-of-body experience. Also remember that professors have invested 5+ years into this person and don't want to believe that he is a cheater and/or dumb.
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Oh. My. God. That girl's grammar and spelling makes trolls look like geniuses.
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Cheating in college has gone to ridiculous levels. Hell, cheating at all levels in school is ridiculous.
And I can really see the reason for it too.
The likelihood of being caught is very small.
The benefit (having a high GPA) is much, much higher than the drawback (not knowing the material for a job that will probably not use 90% of it).
I work as an engineer and at the most I use one chapter of Thermodynamics. No solid mechanics or fluid mechanics, *maybe* very general signals and systems, no circuits, and the most advanced computer program I use is Excel. Okay, some jobs might use more, but not mine, and I'm sure I'm a more typical case.
Something has to be done to reform the educational system to discourage cheating. And I'm not talking about "You can be expelled from school! Oh no!" but rather, connecting education more closely to careers, and greater drawbacks when you don't know the knowledge. Look at the Boeing Dreamliner project, not only is it costing them billions but if they don't design it correctly, people will die... and I know without a doubt that there are many people working on the project that are of the slacking lazy kind who cheated their way through school.
Maybe we need to devalue GPA as a job search criterion.
Maybe we need to add more real-world experience instead of just one final project.
Whatever it is, I hope we figure it out.
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On November 18 2010 07:20 zaldinfox wrote:The guy in the article is a sad story. His claims about "contributing to research" in graduate studies is laughable and his boasts about writing 75 pages in two days go to show he has not understood what University or graduate studies is about. One word: "revision." This guy churns out tons of crap that he proudly holds up as being "un-edited," when the whole point of research is that it be constantly looked over, reshaped, challenged, edited, and made into a valuable contribution. I realize he is simply exposing the depth of corruption in the system, but he shows quite clearly that much of this extends from his unwillingness to learn the point of University. The process of writing papers, reading, and being challenged in lectures and seminars is the point. What makes me sad is how on-board TLers are about cheating. You don't understand the irony that you are cheating yourself, as in the following: Show nested quote + I am a 3rd year chemistry major and if I can someone to write all my papers for English/History/*insert course name that has nothing do with my degree here* I will probably do it. The point of taking English and History and other stuff is to compliment your degree so you aren't a specialist who has no exposure to other disciplines and ideas before you go sit in a lab all day. Think of how we all react to 5 year-old kids who are pushed into beauty pageants and made to look inhuman. That is what your brain looks like without breadth. Show nested quote +Sorry, but a fictional writer from 500 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with me, or my future. How sadly mistaken you are. Shakespeare (whom I am assuming you are referencing) shaped the very language you use to communicate. The Science majors think History, Anthro, Philosophy, Literature, Cultural Studies, and all the other Arts are a load of crap and a waste of time. But all studies of science and math find their roots in the Arts. Chronological Snobbery is what the above quote is, plain and simple...
You make a compelling point. I may have difficulty with some classes, and I might struggle on those blasted essays, but they are my own genuine work and ideas 100%. The apathy and decline of morals in our society is what is driving my/our nation (United States) to it's early grave.
Look at the politicians. Do they want to do serious work either? Compare that to high school and college students who are "rich" and unmoral enough to pay for people to write their essays. What we are is human beings, no matter what day and age. Our choices and the way we perceive life carry on, from youth well into old age. You can't simply shake it off and say oh, it's only high school and college. Well, you will be JUST that LAZY in work too then. Then it becomes the blame game and finger pointing when something doesn't go right.
To quote one of my favorite songs-
"The world belongs to those
who stand out from the rows
of wayward and misguided silent souls
History is shamed
By people laying blame
To everyone who doesn’t feel the same"
-Machinae Supremacy
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On November 19 2010 06:09 Kimaker wrote:
I love writing my own papers. I'm a history major, and I don't understand why it wouldn't be enjoyable to further delve into a topic that you clearly like (seeing as you're likely majoring in it), and get to provide your own opinion on it.
O_o?
I'm at a loss honestly. Why would someone do this again?
Simple answer: some people don't/can't write as well as you. It might be fun to research the topic but getting it onto paper might be a huge mental block for them.
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Why would you not care about your secondary courses? I don't know how it went for you guys, but at my university I had 4 courses per semester. 2 Courses were my majors (Political Science and Economic History). The other two courses were unrelated to my majors and I could choose ANYTHING from within the humanities department or ANYTHING from any other department for which I fulfilled the prerequisites. So why not pick something that interesting to you, that you enjoy doing on the side and work on it a bit?
I completely disagree with the notion that University education has to be more applicable to current job offerings. The whole point, as many have already mentioned, is to learn how to learn. Work on different subjects, explore directions. Be a bit more on the creative side. If all you learnt was how to do your future job, do you think a majority of current jobs even required a university education? I don't. Most people with a completed university degree say they had no clue what they were meant to do when they got into their job. Surely this is not the same in every field. What I am trying to say is, that there is a certain appreciation for a university education out there, otherwise they would just take some random high school students and trim them to do their job.
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EPT
