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It's smite, that's not a "choice" it's a NEVER-type of a summoner spell for a laner like Kassadin. It's like picking Revive and saying it's just a style of play.
I like how you think you can claim these things as facts. Do you honestly believe yourself right now? Another elitist in this thread, who thinks that a Kassadin who takes smite is a total nub and should be disregarded. I mean boy, I wonder what the point of this thread was? Was it to share our guides? Or was it to all criticize someone else's playstyle?
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On November 05 2010 02:16 Pandonetho wrote:
You guys attack me, the player, but have nothing to actually say against the guide, now do you? Do I said smite is the best spell? Did I not say Ignite is good too?
Shrinking it down to this one line, but that's not correct either. Plenty was said about the guide itself as well(skill order, item build, masteries, lane playstyle). Also, even ignite isn't the 'preferred' alternative to smite, Kass's one big time danger is getting caught in a cc chain after a rift, so cleanse allows you to play far more aggressive(wrecklessly even sometimes).
You're getting defensive because the forum holds itself to a standard, if it really makes you that mad I don't know what to say... guides(typically) are meant to show how to optimally do something, this guide is not showing how to optimally play Kass. Thus the criticism.
It's not just this thread either, so don't feel too bad ?
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Is it really a guide for newbies if you're the only person who uses this playstyle and everyone else thinks it's subpar? The point of making these guide threads isn't really to emphasize your particular playstyle but instead to help people understand what they're even meant to be accomplishing with their champion. I'd argue that a new player shouldn't learn a bad habit like taking smite instead of learning to last hit, personally.
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Shrinking it down to this one line, but that's not correct either. Plenty was said about the guide itself as well(skill order, item build, masteries, lane playstyle).
Nice, now I instantly know you haven't read the thread. Find me ONE quote besides the first post, talking about anything other than smite.
The first post wasn't even constructive, you call that forum standards?
Don't post if you haven't read anything.
Is it really a guide for newbies if you're the only person who uses this playstyle and everyone else thinks it's subpar? The point of making these guide threads isn't really to emphasize your particular playstyle but instead to help people understand what they're even meant to be accomplishing with their champion. I'd argue that a new player shouldn't learn a bad habit like taking smite instead of learning to last hit, personally.
So what you're saying is... we should all be elites and post nothing but guides that are used by pros. Oh in which case how many different builds could we see in this thread? One? Two? The Archangels build is not my invention. Neither is taking smite.
Since you're all so inclined, you may as well all call me a noob. But guess what, this build works. Just check my profile in LoL (Pandonetho) And you'll see that I'm hardly a feeder in all the ranked games I've played as Kass.
Last but not least, I said I personally take smite. I never said it was the best choice, and there's an ample amount of posts in here already that talk about how bad smite is on a non jungler.
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On November 05 2010 02:25 Pandonetho wrote:Show nested quote +It's smite, that's not a "choice" it's a NEVER-type of a summoner spell for a laner like Kassadin. It's like picking Revive and saying it's just a style of play. I like how you think you can claim these things as facts. Do you honestly believe yourself right now? Another elitist in this thread, who thinks that a Kassadin who takes smite is a total nub and should be disregarded. I mean boy, I wonder what the point of this thread was? Was it to share our guides? Or was it to all criticize someone else's playstyle?
What? Yeah, I do believe it's terrible to take Smite on a laning Kassadin, it's like only picking one summoner skill. Or revive.
Why do you think I wouldn't believe myself?
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United States37500 Posts
You should probably stop taking these comments as personal attacks.
TeamLiquid has a tendency to be a little over the top when it comes to competitive play. Because after all, the site is modeled to cover high level, competitive StarCraft. With that being said, a lot of the "hardcore" players carry over to League of Legends as well.
With your specific situation, taking Smite on a caster like Kassadin is bad, whether you want to accept it or not. Why do we consider it a bad move? Because you would never see players at the highest competitive level of LoL take smite on a non-jungle. It is a "selfish" summoner spell and brings nothing to team fights. Junglers must carry Smite to help control buffs. Your guide on the other hand, is suggesting that Smite be used to last hit the siege minions. Something you should either last hit with auto attack or even with Null Sphere instead.
Like someone said before, there is a difference between playstyle and incorrect play. Picking Attack Speed or Armor Pen Marks on a Jungler is a matter of play style. Picking Smite over Ignite on Kassadin is simply wrong play. The purpose of Smite can be neglected with better micro.
You can use Smite as you want in your own games but players seeking out guides tend to look for the most efficient and effective builds.
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On November 05 2010 02:30 Pandonetho wrote:Show nested quote +Shrinking it down to this one line, but that's not correct either. Plenty was said about the guide itself as well(skill order, item build, masteries, lane playstyle). Nice, now I instantly know you haven't read the thread. Find me ONE quote besides the first post, talking about anything other than smite. The first post wasn't even constructive, you call that forum standards? Don't post if you haven't read anything. Show nested quote +Is it really a guide for newbies if you're the only person who uses this playstyle and everyone else thinks it's subpar? The point of making these guide threads isn't really to emphasize your particular playstyle but instead to help people understand what they're even meant to be accomplishing with their champion. I'd argue that a new player shouldn't learn a bad habit like taking smite instead of learning to last hit, personally. So what you're saying is... we should all be elites and post nothing but guides that are used by pros. Oh in which case how many different builds could we see in this thread? One? Two? The Archangels build is not my invention. Neither is taking smite. Since you're all so inclined, you may as well all call me a noob. But guess what, this build works. Just check my profile in LoL (Pandonetho) And you'll see that I'm hardly a feeder in all the ranked games I've played as Kass. Last but not least, I said I personally take smite. I never said it was the best choice, and there's an ample amount of posts in here already that talk about how bad smite is on a non jungler.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166231#11
there's more differences than similarities tbh
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On November 05 2010 02:30 Pandonetho wrote:Show nested quote +Shrinking it down to this one line, but that's not correct either. Plenty was said about the guide itself as well(skill order, item build, masteries, lane playstyle). Nice, now I instantly know you haven't read the thread. Find me ONE quote besides the first post, talking about anything other than smite. The first post wasn't even constructive, you call that forum standards? Don't post if you haven't read anything.
Southlight's entire post?
Between him and Neo addressing those other points, and you only getting defensive about smite, of course people are going to continue to debate you on that point instead of the others; until you bring the others back up and I call you on it.
Not holding any punches, this 'guide' looks like it belongs on leaguecraft, I(and most here) are going to be very apathetic about the level of offense you take from that.
Also, even if you're using smite to help your farm, you should try and use that at low minion hp anyways. Dropping 450+ damage off the siege minion is going to get your lane pushing faster than it already would from typical last hitting.
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You can use Smite as you want in your own games but players seeking out guides tend to look for the most efficient and effective builds.
And therein lies the problem doesn't it? I totally said that smite is a top tier ability on Kass, and I definitely said that everyone should take it because it's what all the top level players do. And personally, I'm not taking anything personally. I'm just getting irritated at the nonstop amount of elitists here ragging on me as a player.
If you're so inclined would you like me to be oh so humble and edit my guide to say smite sucks, but since I'm a shitty player only I take it and that all other cases of play should be taken with ignite or cleanse?
Southlight's entire post?
You specifically said plenty was said about my guide other than smite. You're wrong. Southlight's entire post doesn't cover my guide, it's his guide.
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Because you wrote a guide, wrote that you took Smite, and insist that it's a playstyle thing when it's a crutch. And then you further contradict yourself by admitting that you suck at last-hitting, and so your smite is a crutch and that one day you might graduate from it... while also saying you're not bad and that it's a playstyle choice to take Smite.
Playstyle is the difference between my Tankassadin, Grandjudge's Vulture Kassadin, DOGkaiser's DPS Kassadin, and statikk's SS/GA/Clarity Kassadin, among many, many others others (Eu DFG Kassadin is also a playstyle, although I think it's a horrible one and only works against bad players/team comps). Especially true when you consider that Kassadin is a highly flexible hero with a strong base selection of spells and a relatively high ceiling for potential (although I still maintain ranged DPS > him, especially teams that babysit their ranged DPS).
Playstyle is not shoring up a weakness by doing something you shouldn't.
Also:
On November 04 2010 16:17 NeoIllusions wrote:
Archangel's Staff if your recommended 3 - 5 items?
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...and this is why I personally think the 1 thread/champion idea is dumb and we should have high elo players have access to update the wiki and just use that for guides. Champion discussion threads seem fine, but when it comes to guide writing, I think we want to promote well respected players writing guides that benefit from their experiences playing with the best of the best instead of people suggesting AA Stack and Smite...
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Clearly I'm not going to be convincing anyone here, so I give up. Do whatever you want, I'm leaving my post but a mod can go ahead and change it for all I care.
Really, I'd like to play with all of you someday because I'm sure that's the only way anyone would ever prove themselves to be 'worthy' in the eyes of TL.
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You can be the greatest kassadin player in the world with your judgment and positioning....
... but even then, taking smite is still bad.
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United States37500 Posts
On November 05 2010 02:38 Mogwai wrote:
...and this is why I personally think the 1 thread/champion idea is dumb and we should have high elo players have access to update the wiki and just use that for guides. Champion discussion threads seem fine, but when it comes to guide writing, I think we want to promote well respected players writing guides that benefit from their experiences playing with the best of the best instead of people suggesting AA Stack and Smite...
Work in progress yo. And this was simply one thread. There are other ones that I've taken a liking to, like the Olaf one.
In the end, our "high elo" bunch from LP will have a say in what goes into the Guides/Builds Sticky as quality.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 05 2010 02:40 Pandonetho wrote:
Clearly I'm not going to be convincing anyone here, so I give up. Do whatever you want, I'm leaving my post but a mod can go ahead and change it for all I care.
Really, I'd like to play with all of you someday because I'm sure that's the only way anyone would ever prove themselves to be 'worthy' in the eyes of TL.
You're taking this too personally. It has nothing to do with seeing you personally as a bad player, just that smite on a non-jungler is considered poor play, period. I would question it even if Southlight wrote it.
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On November 05 2010 02:30 Pandonetho wrote:
So what you're saying is... we should all be elites and post nothing but guides that are used by pros. Oh in which case how many different builds could we see in this thread? One? Two? The Archangels build is not my invention. Neither is taking smite.
Since you're all so inclined, you may as well all call me a noob. But guess what, this build works. Just check my profile in LoL (Pandonetho) And you'll see that I'm hardly a feeder in all the ranked games I've played as Kass.
Last but not least, I said I personally take smite. I never said it was the best choice, and there's an ample amount of posts in here already that talk about how bad smite is on a non jungler.
There is a very big difference between 'being an elitist' and 'wanting to offer viable information' and I wish you would stop interpreting them incorrectly. When someone says your playstyle is bad for a certain champion or that smite is impractical, that is not a personal attack and you don't have to immediately get defensive. That is someone letting you know that you could be playing differently and as a result, better. If someone posted a build order that was subpar or less practical in the Brood War section, we'd close it because of the aforementioned "we aim to be good at games" factor on TL.
I'm not saying your playstyle is bad and nobody has even called you a noob. For you, maybe it's incredibly effective. But you have to realize you are not putting your own playstyle on display, you're making a hero as good as he can be and covering what points you need to in order for someone to know what they're doing when they pick a hero.
Never mind, I opened another tab and saw you've already martyred yourself.
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United States37500 Posts
On November 05 2010 02:46 H wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 02:30 Pandonetho wrote:
So what you're saying is... we should all be elites and post nothing but guides that are used by pros. Oh in which case how many different builds could we see in this thread? One? Two? The Archangels build is not my invention. Neither is taking smite.
Since you're all so inclined, you may as well all call me a noob. But guess what, this build works. Just check my profile in LoL (Pandonetho) And you'll see that I'm hardly a feeder in all the ranked games I've played as Kass.
Last but not least, I said I personally take smite. I never said it was the best choice, and there's an ample amount of posts in here already that talk about how bad smite is on a non jungler. There is a very big difference between 'being an elitist' and 'wanting to offer viable information' and I wish you would stop interpreting them incorrectly. When someone says your playstyle is bad for a certain champion or that smite is impractical, that is not a personal attack and you don't have to immediately get defensive. That is someone letting you know that you could be playing differently and as a result, better. If someone posted a build order that was subpar or less practical in the Brood War section, we'd close it because of the aforementioned "we aim to be good at games" factor on TL. I'm not saying your playstyle is bad and nobody has even called you a noob. For you, maybe it's incredibly effective. But you have to realize you are not putting your own playstyle on display, you're making a hero as good as he can be and covering what points you need to in order for someone to know what they're doing when they pick a hero. Never mind, I opened another tab and saw you've already martyred yourself.
I can see why they promoted you to Banlings.  Rather articulate.
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On November 05 2010 02:46 H wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 02:30 Pandonetho wrote:
So what you're saying is... we should all be elites and post nothing but guides that are used by pros. Oh in which case how many different builds could we see in this thread? One? Two? The Archangels build is not my invention. Neither is taking smite.
Since you're all so inclined, you may as well all call me a noob. But guess what, this build works. Just check my profile in LoL (Pandonetho) And you'll see that I'm hardly a feeder in all the ranked games I've played as Kass.
Last but not least, I said I personally take smite. I never said it was the best choice, and there's an ample amount of posts in here already that talk about how bad smite is on a non jungler. I'm not saying your playstyle is bad and nobody has even called you a noob. For you, maybe it's incredibly effective. But you have to realize you are not putting your own playstyle on display, you're making a hero as good as he can be and covering what points you need to in order for someone to know what they're doing when they pick a hero.
I was about to write something like this myself but with worse english. I kind of disagree with the incredibly effective part though, its pretty much impossible for smite to be effective for kassadin especially when he said he mostly smites the tank mob and therefore pushes the lane.
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I'm not sure how you think hiding in plain sight is a good way to get out of something you got yourself into.
Writing a guide should help people get into the way people play a character, not into your own personal view of it that nobody shares and agrees with. You have to think that not everyone opening your guide wants to pick up kass, a lot of people just check character guides because they hate them and are only looking for a way to counter them, and your build is too different from what everyone else considers kass to be.
Another thing, you have to keep in mind that the TL forums are message boards, they are not made to upvote/downvote threads and thank god we don't have a karma meter function. Therefore, when you are rushing to post a guide you are taking the spot from a more well known and trusted player, ratings aside.
That said, I came to the kass guide thread looking for an Uta kass guide to read and it's pretty annoying to have to scroll down a few posts whenever I need to take a peek at it. Imo start another thread.
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I'm not sure how you think hiding in plain sight is a good way to get out of something you got yourself into.
I'm sorry I just have to reply to this.
You think I'm hiding in plain sight to get out of something I got myself into? What do you think this is, that I'm trying to squirm out of a sticky situation?
I get it, people think smite is bad on Kass. By all means start up a new thread. There's no further point in me posting or debating my position when it's so unanimously decided that it's a bad position.
Without further adieu I guess I'll go back to 'hiding in plain sight from the many eyes of the internet'.
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EPT
