Exception to the rule, you took one of the most hated footballers of all time and decided that that is HOW EVERY FOOTBALL player behaves.
Congratulations, Keane breaking that guys leg made him the most hated player in football.
If NFL was so cool "and badass lol" then the entire world would watch it, they dont. They watch football, and they admire players like Messi, not people who hack legs off others (Keane)
Diego Maradona on his rival to the 'world's best ever player' award, Pele...
"Pele should go back to the museum."
Diego Maradona on the entire nation of France and its greatest football star...
"We all know what the French are like and Platini as a Frenchman thinks he knows it all."
Diego Maradona on fatherhood...
"My legitimate kids are Dalma and Giannina. The rest are a product of my money and mistakes."
Diego Maradona on smashing the car of a photographer...
"I did it with the hand of reason."
Diego Maradona on being voted Fifa's joint Player of the Century...
"The people voted for me. Now they want me to share the prize with Pele. I'm not going to share the prize with anybody."
Diego Maradona on World Cup 1998, and clearly not anticipating this one...
"The players have all got square feet. They are like Robocops, they have more need of lubricant than massage. I don't believe the tournament could be worse."
Diego Maradona on proving the doubters wrong...
"To those who did not believe: now suck my d**k - I'm sorry ladies for my words - and keep on sucking it. I am either white or black. I will never be grey in my life. You treated me as you did. Now keep on sucking d**ks. I am grateful to my players and to the Argentinian people. I thank no one but them. The rest, keep on sucking d**ks."
Face it. Soccer is no different from American sports. Some of the athletes are classy or well-mannered, but many more are cocky and talk trash.
Bad manners... what for? Why should someone show them? It's really annoying to anyone, respectful contact helps much better... Better swallow the anger for a moment and have a good relationship to other persons instead of ruining it for a moment of weakness. Players showing bad manners just gain aversion because they show too much doggedness and that's really annoying even only to watch. A german athlete openly showing bad manners really gets some serious problems in public and potentially even on professional level as no team likes to be known as having bad mannered players.
Seems to be different in the US and I don't really understand why. Guess it's because media thinks that it's good for TV ratings so they kinda "support" it and in the end it's all about money on that professional level... I don' want to referr that to a majority of american athletes but it seems to have been an issue in single cases as even I noticed some although I'm not much into sport news.
I'm happy with good manners in eSports. There haven't been many cases of real bad manners that I'ld know and most which existed had consequences. I think SK or another swedish CS teams once dismissed a player because of insulting opponents and german ESL Pro Series kicked a bad mannered WC3 player from the season because he had too many penalty points for bad manners. I hope it remains that way. Right now bad manners are rare and mostly harmless enough to sense them as funny side issues appearing from time to time.
Exception to the rule, you took one of the most hated footballers of all time and decided that that is HOW EVERY FOOTBALL player behaves.
Congratulations, Keane breaking that guys leg made him the most hated player in football.
If NFL was so cool "and badass lol" then the entire world would watch it, they dont. They watch football, and they admire players like Messi, not people who hack legs off others (Keane)
Diego Maradona on his rival to the 'world's best ever player' award, Pele...
"Pele should go back to the museum."
Diego Maradona on the entire nation of France and its greatest football star...
"We all know what the French are like and Platini as a Frenchman thinks he knows it all."
Diego Maradona on fatherhood...
"My legitimate kids are Dalma and Giannina. The rest are a product of my money and mistakes."
Diego Maradona on smashing the car of a photographer...
"I did it with the hand of reason."
Diego Maradona on being voted Fifa's joint Player of the Century...
"The people voted for me. Now they want me to share the prize with Pele. I'm not going to share the prize with anybody."
Diego Maradona on World Cup 1998, and clearly not anticipating this one...
"The players have all got square feet. They are like Robocops, they have more need of lubricant than massage. I don't believe the tournament could be worse."
Diego Maradona on proving the doubters wrong...
"To those who did not believe: now suck my d**k - I'm sorry ladies for my words - and keep on sucking it. I am either white or black. I will never be grey in my life. You treated me as you did. Now keep on sucking d**ks. I am grateful to my players and to the Argentinian people. I thank no one but them. The rest, keep on sucking d**ks."
Face it. Soccer is no different from American sports. Some of the athletes are classy or well-mannered, but many more are cocky and talk trash.
I'm sorry but I don't know a single person that likes Maradona, he's also a massive junkie and alcoholic.
Trash talk is fine by me outside of the game, in interviews etc. Never in game though, or to be more precise during a game. After the gg, say what you like loser
This is what I read, maybe I miss something...: "Hey guys, it sucks that we have good manners and are nice to each others, let's change that!"
Hm?
Being fake and forced to have GM is just as bad as actual BM imo. I don't want to have to learn which is the pickle fork to play starcraft. I don't BM much but I think its fine.
This is what I read, maybe I miss something...: "Hey guys, it sucks that we have good manners and are nice to each others, let's change that!"
Hm?
Haha yeah I have the same impression of the opening post, who would want such a thing? Idra? :D
On September 17 2010 06:06 blitzkrieger wrote: Being fake and forced to have GM is just as bad as actual BM imo. I don't want to have to learn which is the pickle fork to play starcraft. I don't BM much but I think its fine.
If you really have to force yourself to good manners than you're to dogged into the game imo. Players are trying to have fun and play their tactics, they don't aim for annoying their opponents usually. And I think nobody has any problems with replying bad manners with bad manners at a certain level, just don't start with it and don't take it too seriously.
On September 17 2010 03:18 Stegosaur wrote: The difference is that a big American Football player talking trash is a badass, while an SC2 player is sitting behind a computer screen while doing it, playing a videogame, making it awkward instead of badass.
I do think there is a lot of truth to the above quote. On the otherhand, I prefer sportsmanship out of players.
There's perhaps a couple other reasons for the obsession with bm. I don't mind a little smack talk amongst rivals- but get trash talked by some random dude a little annoying- I don't know this person and I'll probably never play them again. As such we aren't creating rivalries here, it's just seems a little dumb.
edit in- this guys is bang on with what I'm thinking:
On September 17 2010 04:00 OneWhoIsMany wrote: Unfortunately trash talk does not translate into trash typing. Trash typing doesn't work the same way, your sitting behind a computer many miles away from your opponent - there is no emotion conveyed, no tone, no setting, no facial features. Which then leaves so much ambiguity to the statements made and more often then not people will judge the worst out of a person when there is no real context. In a Lan event I can see trash talking working, if you really want to BM your opponent and trash him up outplay the fuck out of them and then drop mules, bring all your overlords to hang out, etc.. That is the only reasonable way to BM your opponent in SC2.
Another reason might be, it's a reaction to the very negative image that has been created around gamer culture. Typical sports trash talking is generally pretty tame compared to the diarrhea that falls under the category of gamer 'trash talking.' In certain gamer circles, one will quickly discover that you are
an African slave, a whiny female, a homosexual, have sexual relations with your mother, your opponent will have sexual relations with you and/ or your mother (forcibly or otherwise), etc.
Whatever you may think of the appropriateness of this talk within it's own circle or how prevalent this form of 'trash talking' actually is, I highly suspect other gamers are concerned about gamer image and would rather keep SCII clean of the bottom sewers of gamer culture.
On September 17 2010 05:52 sNes. wrote: you think this is bm?..play Heroes of newerth
Do you want to cultivate a community that will be similar to HoN, Halo, CoD, and all that or would you rather have one which stands apart by being civil?
I want StarCraft 2's community to be a city on a hill for gamers and game culture, rather then a vile cesspool of kids with their balls freshly dropped yelling uncalled for insults to one another because it makes them feel better.
Well said
SC2 should be what every community wishes it was, not another cesspool of arroggant assholes who think they are "hardcore brah" for talking smack online and thinking they are some buff NFL player.
I cant speak for every european player, but im pretty sure that most of them, dont see bad manners and douchebag attitude as entertainment
This is what I read, maybe I miss something...: "Hey guys, it sucks that we have good manners and are nice to each others, let's change that!"
Hm?
Being fake and forced to have GM is just as bad as actual BM imo. I don't want to have to learn which is the pickle fork to play starcraft. I don't BM much but I think its fine.
if you really have break your habits to just show some respect to other people you fail anyway...
Again, E-sports is already in a bad light for most of the world due to people like the guys on Halo that rage at eachother all the time.
If we want E-sports to grow(Or atleast SC) we should be good mannered, and show we aren't just people who sit in our basement throwing shit at eachother.
If, say, Football was just starting up, and wanted to get people and their families watching, do you think those families would watch when for almost all the game the players would just swear at eachother and trashtalk?
On September 17 2010 05:43 figq wrote: Ever seen chess players talking thrash to each other? Scientists that argue about a solution? Well, playing strategy games is closer to these activities. I feel sorry for the described culture.
Bobby Fisher? And yes, scientists/professors arguing about solutions is pretty much the norm...
I have yet to see two scientist calling each other "Fucking retard" or "Fag" when they disagreed.
BM hurts e-sports, I thought we wanted it to spread, not people be afraid to jump in.
You have to admit that it would be interesting to watch scientific debate like that though regardless of subject matter.
but seriously, arguing with facts and logical reasoning is good. Actually criticism is one of the main forces of science but BM no.... just no.
On September 17 2010 03:12 awesomoecalypse wrote: Americans don't care about "bad manners". They want drama and a sense that the competitors really want to destroy each other.
Certainly not all do. I am American, and I absolutely hate trash talking. Whenever pro athletes open their mouths to say something nasty, I instantly change my opinion of them (unless of course my opinion was already incredibly low). Part of the reason I don't like watching pro football is how obnoxious I find the players. Obviously it happens in other sports, but it seems most pervasive in football.
The occasional light hearted BM talk is okay if you ask me, but much beyond that is too much. A good example was Flash's comment about Free's OSL run (for those of you who don't know Flash said something along the lines of "Yeah, he's undefeated until our first game"). Although, if I didn't already think Flash was a really nice, polite guy, that might have pissed me off a bit.
Another issue with everyone trash talking is that it becomes unfunny to me. Firebathero's ceremonies when he beat savior are funny, but if every player did those, then I would just find it annoying.
I guess an advantage of having arrogant super stars and polite super stars is it creates the whole "good guy, bad guy" dynamic.
Exception to the rule, you took one of the most hated footballers of all time and decided that that is HOW EVERY FOOTBALL player behaves.
Congratulations, Keane breaking that guys leg made him the most hated player in football.
If NFL was so cool "and badass lol" then the entire world would watch it, they dont. They watch football, and they admire players like Messi, not people who hack legs off others (Keane)
Diego Maradona on his rival to the 'world's best ever player' award, Pele...
"Pele should go back to the museum."
Diego Maradona on the entire nation of France and its greatest football star...
"We all know what the French are like and Platini as a Frenchman thinks he knows it all."
Diego Maradona on fatherhood...
"My legitimate kids are Dalma and Giannina. The rest are a product of my money and mistakes."
Diego Maradona on smashing the car of a photographer...
"I did it with the hand of reason."
Diego Maradona on being voted Fifa's joint Player of the Century...
"The people voted for me. Now they want me to share the prize with Pele. I'm not going to share the prize with anybody."
Diego Maradona on World Cup 1998, and clearly not anticipating this one...
"The players have all got square feet. They are like Robocops, they have more need of lubricant than massage. I don't believe the tournament could be worse."
Diego Maradona on proving the doubters wrong...
"To those who did not believe: now suck my d**k - I'm sorry ladies for my words - and keep on sucking it. I am either white or black. I will never be grey in my life. You treated me as you did. Now keep on sucking d**ks. I am grateful to my players and to the Argentinian people. I thank no one but them. The rest, keep on sucking d**ks."
Face it. Soccer is no different from American sports. Some of the athletes are classy or well-mannered, but many more are cocky and talk trash.
Its called football son, and he said all that AFTER his football career was over, you also took a man who has a track record of drug problems, aswell as attempted suicide.
So far you got a thug, and a drug abuser. Who is next? Ibrahimovic? Try him im sure you can find bm quotes. Exception to the rule
You are trying to justify acting like an asshole becuase "everyone else duz it lol", you dont need to justify any of that to me or anyone here. You can do as you please
As someone who lives in europe and follows football i can rest assure you that BM is seen as something bad and players are often told to keep it down or apologise for it (Rooney at WC).
I guess an advantage of having arrogant super stars and polite super stars is it creates the whole "good guy, bad guy" dynamic. E.g. some people like the trash-talking "bad boy," while others like the wholesome polite "good guy."
Well, on major advantage is that it actually gives you a sense of who is genuinely nice and classy.
When everyone is forced to have good manners, then you never know how they actually feel, all you know is they're keeping their heads down to avoid getting in trouble.
But if people are allowed to say whatever they want, and someone still chooses to be classy, then you know they're genuine.
I'll take honesty, even if it leads to "BM", over enforced niceness any day.
People need to learn the difference between BM and trashtalking. This thread is an example of how nobody knows what trashtalking actually is.
Also, what's up with people saying "glhf, gg" are just from SC2? I've played quite a few games competitively and almost every game began with a "glhf" and ended with a "gg". Stop trying to use Halo and CoD4 as the example of how esports manners should be.
I cant speak for koreans, but i know they dont put up with BM.
I cant speak for americans, im sure many of them are sick of the constant trash talk and garbage in sports and media.
But i dont know a single european who wants a sport star here to trash someones mother on TV, "Yo ronaldo, yo momma is a hoe!" - Messi.
That would be OMGAWSUOM perhaps in the states but not here
And no, this is not a "we are better than you" its just not something people here find "fun" or "entertaining". It is the exact reason why NFL is not popular here, and NBA also struggles.
"Omg some guy slept with LeBrons mom lolol what will he say now? OMG DRAMEH" European guy "who cares, when do they actually play basketball?"
This is what comes to mind when someone BM's. If they were really good then their play would show. There is no need to put someone down... since most people should know that the connections you make help you out in so many ways.
EPT
