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Hi forum,
I'm currently Gold Zerg player and I wonder what maps currently are good/bad for Zerg. I think it's very important to discuss this, since we have three votes for maps. Lets look at map pool:
(2) Blistering Sands
(2) Desert Oasis
(2) Scrap Station
(2) Steppes Of War
(2) Xel'Naga Caverns
(4) Kulas Ravine
(4) Lost Temple
(4) Metalopolis
(4) Delta Quadrant
I currently have Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine voted down. Desert is just bad for my style of play, and Kulas ravine has vulnerable natural. As third I was thinking Delta Quadrant but I'm not sure.
What do you think?
PS. If this is already discussed, I apologize. Thanks
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I have Desert Oasis, Kulas Ravine and Delta Quadrant vetoed.
Desert Oasis because everyone goes air and Hydras are probably the most boring unit ever created in an RTS game. I think it's a good map for Zerg because of no cliffs but the distance between main base and natural expo is too far.
I voted down Delta Quadrant for pretty much the same reson, although I'm thinking about switching it for Lost Temple since Lost Temple is on par with Kulas Ravine as the most imbalanced map for Zerg.
Kulas Ravine because it's simply unbalanced.
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All maps besides scrap and meta are bad for Zerg. 
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The usual ones to ban as zerg is LT and kulas because of the cliff at the natural. I'm zerg and i only banned LT because i like kulas, but zerg is very bad at both because of the cliff. I'm writing from an iphone so please excuse my text
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But i also think that delta is à bad map since you easily can have three bases but you only have to defend one of them (the outer one). My tactic as zerg is often to limit the enemy base count to 2 (and then i'm going for 3 or 4 myself), but that's hard on delta. But i'm still not banning that map since it's à cool one
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Most of the maps are pretty bad.. but I vote down steppes of war (mech is ridiculous), desert oasis for reasons already mentioned, and blistering sands. kulas and lost temple are pretty imbalanced but ive always like 4 player maps in 1v1
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as far as favor, if I had to list them:
F: Kulas, LT
D: DO, Delta quadrant
C: Steppes
B: Blistering, Xel'Naga,
A: Metalopolis, Scrap station
Most of these are only bad because of ZvT matchup, P is great on LT and Blistering Sands because of the power of FFE, but on everything else seems pretty even. Delta quadrant, I totally agree with Skirmisher - they can take a 2nd completely safely, but Z needs to expand before it can break those rocks, so it needs to take the very hard-to-defend natural.
I have Kulas, LT, and DQ downvoted. ZvT on DO is pretty retarded though.
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Kulas is an absolutely abysmal map for zerg, lost temple however with cunning overlord placement and spinecrawlers on the edge of your cliff is actually quite easily defended, and a sloppy terran will suicide two tanks before he realizes.
Desert Oasis is abysmal for ALL races, unless you have a very refined cheese build in which case I say play it like crazy and crank out the easy wins. Do not get tricked into thinking that standard play is at all viable on this map however, either cheese hard or thumbsdown it.
Delta Quadrant is the other map I would veto, mainly because as other posters have mentioned the main advantage of a Zerg is outmacroing your opponent, on this map you will both be tied on three base, and zerg does not win in 3base vs. 3base pretty much ever.
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I have Kulas and Delta down voted. I don't know why but I absolutely hate Delta Quadrant. I don't mind LT, then again I haven't really had my cliff abused.
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On August 15 2010 03:13 StarcraftGuy4U wrote:
Kulas is an absolutely abysmal map for zerg, lost temple however with cunning overlord placement and spinecrawlers on the edge of your cliff is actually quite easily defended, and a sloppy terran will suicide two tanks before he realizes.
Well, there's two issues: 1 a siege tank at the far end cannot be reached by the spine crawlers and can power them down
2: a viking can scare away the overlords and there's not a damn thing you can do about it unless you have mutas
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I'm Zerg and I have Scrapp, Steppes, and Kulas voted down. I just hate scrapp, I don't get how it's Zerg favored at all, I always lost to forces busting those middle rocks  (
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Blistering Sands, Kulas Ravine and Lost Temple.
All are heavily terran favored. 
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Ideal Zerg Map:
1. Long rush distance
2. No natural cliff
3. Open map
4. Short distance between main and natural
5. Small (queen-blockable) natural ramp close to natural expansion
6. Closed natural (think LT vs Metalopolis)
7. Small main base (easier to overlord scout)
8. Short air distance (easier to overlord scout)
Examples:
Desert Oasis: 1, 2, 3, 8
Scrap Station: 1, 2, 8
Blistering Sands: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (backdoor is a big problem for 2base Zerg vs 1base T/P though)
Xel'Naga Caverns: 2, 3, 7
Kulas Ravine: ...
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I don't understand why everyone hates on Desert Oasis. I have a sneaking suspicion it's because 1base all-ins are significantly less effective on that map...
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On August 15 2010 03:13 fdsdfg wrote:
as far as favor, if I had to list them:
F: Kulas, LT
D: DO, Delta quadrant
C: Steppes
B: Blistering, Xel'Naga,
A: Metalopolis, Scrap station
Most of these are only bad because of ZvT matchup, P is great on LT and Blistering Sands because of the power of FFE, but on everything else seems pretty even. Delta quadrant, I totally agree with Skirmisher - they can take a 2nd completely safely, but Z needs to expand before it can break those rocks, so it needs to take the very hard-to-defend natural.
I have Kulas, LT, and DQ downvoted. ZvT on DO is pretty retarded though.
It depends a lot on matchup.
ZvP:
F: DO
D: Xel'Naga, Blistering
C: Kulas
B: Metalopolis, LT, Delta Quadrant, Steppes
A: Scrap Station
I don't care for Metal that much vs Protoss because of the open natural, dangerously close starting positions (vertical) and how it can be tough to grab a 3rd/4th if you're in vertical positions. Meanwhile the problems with DQ and LT are mostly issues vs Terran and Zerg can have a pretty good time on these maps.
ZvT:
F: DO
D: Kulas, Lost Temple
C: Delta Quadrant
B: Xel'Naga, Blistering, Scrap Station, Steppes of War
A: Metalopolis
As you can see this is quite different. Since you rely much less on static defense metalopolis and Scrap Station become much better maps. Scrap Station would be A for me, but a dedicated hellion harass can be really tough to stop because of the long ramp and main/nat distance. Maybe Xel'Naga is an A vs Terran; it's a really good layout to play vs Terran, but I'm not ready to call it A yet. I think Steppes of War is one of the best maps to play vs Terran. The rush distances are small, but that's not too important vs Terran, what matters more is how well you can defend your natural + main and secure a 3rd. Tank pushes are dicey on this map until you get the middle gooped up then they're managable. It also helps that the sides of the main are wide open for air harassment.
If I were to down vote any maps it'd be:
DO, Kulas, LT as I find the D maps vs Protoss to be a little more manageable than the D maps vs Terran (as in it's easier to have the game go longer so you make the map less relevant).
@ Saracen
DO is bad because 1) The natural is way far away and really open to harassment (or you defend nat and leave main open) and 2) There's a TON of room to hide cheese vs Zerg..
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I have Kulas and Delta thumbed down. Kulas because its plain ridiculous, delta because its so easy for Toss and Terran to expand while Zerg has to FE out in the open. Just don't suit my style of FE play. I think DO is fine. I normally go Hydra with Nydus because they walk so damn slow out of creep or Mutas. But really have to watch out for cheese in DO. Its a map that encourages freakin' cheesing. Steppes is fine just have to watch out if you want to FE and Mech (really powerful in Steppes). LT is perfectly fine against Protoss, but against terran.... I mean seriously that race is already OP yet so many maps are still largely in favour of them?
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On August 15 2010 03:19 fdsdfg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 03:13 StarcraftGuy4U wrote:
Kulas is an absolutely abysmal map for zerg, lost temple however with cunning overlord placement and spinecrawlers on the edge of your cliff is actually quite easily defended, and a sloppy terran will suicide two tanks before he realizes.
Well, there's two issues: 1 a siege tank at the far end cannot be reached by the spine crawlers and can power them down 2: a viking can scare away the overlords and there's not a damn thing you can do about it unless you have mutas
If he has tanks, medevacs, and vikings, and you have NO answer, you are going to lose for other reasons. The FAST tank drop is the problem, not ANY tank drop.
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On August 15 2010 02:48 Blood-Sin wrote:
Hi forum,
I'm currently Gold Zerg player and I wonder what maps currently are good/bad for Zerg. I think it's very important to discuss this, since we have three votes for maps. Lets look at map pool:
(2) Blistering Sands
(2) Desert Oasis
(2) Scrap Station
(2) Steppes Of War
(2) Xel'Naga Caverns
(4) Kulas Ravine
(4) Lost Temple
(4) Metalopolis
(4) Delta Quadrant
I currently have Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine voted down. Desert is just bad for my style of play, and Kulas ravine has vulnerable natural. As third I was thinking Delta Quadrant but I'm not sure.
What do you think?
PS. If this is already discussed, I apologize. Thanks
Kulas Ravine is the worst map. Cliffs over every single expansion and rocks all over the place which take zerg the longest to destroy. ZvT on that map is so heavily stacked in favor of T it's simply insane. If I could only X out one map, that would be it.
Scrap Station is obviously preferred by most zerg. Easily accessible third, expansions lead away from the enemy, decently open, no stupid cliffs. Very short air rush distance on a 2p map means you don't have to drone scout as the overlord gets there pretty fast (just beware of proxy). The middle rock-choke can be kind of a bitch against terran if he manages to get tanks sieged since it can bisect your bases, but this is still a good map for zerg.
Delta Quadrant is also retarded. I've only ever played one ladder game on this map and immediately X'd it out. Extremely open natural that might as well be in the center of the map, third is blocked off by rocks and has a cliff over it. As mentioned, this basically hands a free expansion to terran/protoss while crucifying zerg in the middle of the map. No thanks.
Lost Temple is my third X, since I'm simply fed up of the ridiculous power of a thor/tank drop on the nat ledge. It's simply too easy for the terran to do, has practically no risk, and is way way way way too hard to stop (if it's even entirely stoppable when done properly - the games I've won when that happened have been when I double expanded crossmap and the other guy was too happy killing the nat to notice). Honestly, having cliffs be such a huge racial weakness for zerg is a terrible game design decision that's really hurting the map selection. They're simply too ubiquitous.
Blistering Sands is good against terran, but 4gate P pushes through the backdoor are extremely difficult to stop since you NEED spines to defend against a 4gate and with the 12s burrow time you can't reposition them in a hurry. If he knocks down the back and sees you've moved them up to your main he'll just loop around and wreck the nat and vice versa. I feel creep spread against P is absolutely vital on this map against 4gate as you need to get those spines to the mid where they can cover both chokes with heavy speedling assistance. Still a good map overall.
Steppes of War has been treating me well lately, despite the short rush distance the middle is VERY open and has some awesomely positioned grass/ramps that let you hide units and set up some terrific flanks. I've been doing well on this map even against T as long as you can contain him to 2-3 bases (although if he takes a third you practically need to take the entire map to win). Also has an easily defended third, and the rocks are also easily knocked down with the few spines you'll always make so you don't wind up with your army out of position at a bad time.
Desert Oasis used to be one of my highest win% maps but lately it's been annoying me with the massive distances between bases. Even with proper creep spread split attacks can be a huge headache to deal with. I feel nydus is absolutely mandatory on this map if you're going any kind of ground army. The cliff/ledge right next to the main's gas provides huge opportunity for blink stalker/siege tank/thor/marauder abuse (hell you could probably just keep launching nukes from there as terran) but the main area is at least fairly open.
Metalopolis is solid unless you get same-side positions (especially against T) in which case you'll have to take your third cross-map most likely and you'll have a lot of fun defending a siege tank push on that short of a rush distance. Anything other than same-side positions works great though since you're expanding away from your opponent. Ling runbys on expos also work well here, forcing them to make PF/some static defense.
Lastly, Xel'Naga Caverns seems like a decent map. Logical third/fourth to take, open mid with good flanking opportunities. Rocks at the third don't actually block the third, so like on steppes you can start building your third and then knock them down after. Nat is very open, but tucked close to the main and not terribly difficult to defend. I think this map is one of the better designed ones.
Probably more text than most will read!
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On August 15 2010 03:37 Saracen wrote:
I don't understand why everyone hates on Desert Oasis. I have a sneaking suspicion it's because 1base all-ins are significantly less effective on that map...
Becouse the nat is so far away from the main and there are 2 entrence to the nat. Making it easy to hellion harras or just rush up as p and forcefield the ramp.
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On August 15 2010 03:37 Saracen wrote:
I don't understand why everyone hates on Desert Oasis. I have a sneaking suspicion it's because 1base all-ins are significantly less effective on that map...
I don't know either, outside of some toss shenanigans with forcefield and potentially drops, honestly I've never seen anything from DO that can really annoy me. Z has a lot of map control on that map and consequently, the siege/thor on cliff is readily dealt with. The long distance makes T and P pushes a nightmare. About the only thing I don't like about it as Z is probably how ZvZ ends up pretty one-tempo.
On August 15 2010 04:15 Hilberer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 03:37 Saracen wrote:
I don't understand why everyone hates on Desert Oasis. I have a sneaking suspicion it's because 1base all-ins are significantly less effective on that map... Becouse the nat is so far away from the main and there are 2 entrence to the nat. Making it easy to hellion harras or just rush up as p and forcefield the ramp.
I can understand the P forcefield one, but that's where maintaining a good vision of the map comes in handy. Considering we have an awesome tool to hold watchtowers in lings, it is really hard to miss most things that Toss would toss at you. Just be more wary if you scout a robo facility, 4gate has to traverse across all the way if you deny proxy pylon.
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Kulas is intolerable.
Steppes is OK, but a little tight when playing T
LT cliffs suck balls, otherwise map is fine.
Everything else is fine, I only really veto Kulas 100% of the time. Steppes of war, LT and Scrap Station can be lame in some situations, but are alright most of the time.
In order of best to worst:
Xel'Naga Caverns (this map makes me cream my pants due to its wide open areas where my zerglings can roam and be happy, not to mention the cross spawns)
Desert Oasis
Metalopolis
Delta Quadrant
Blistering Sands
Scrap Station
Lost Temple
Steppes Of War
Kulas Ravine
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On August 15 2010 03:37 Saracen wrote:
I don't understand why everyone hates on Desert Oasis. I have a sneaking suspicion it's because 1base all-ins are significantly less effective on that map...
Although I personally don't mind it (Z player) I think people are put off by the cliff overlooking the main, which can easily be exploited and take out all of your gas, when sieged tanks get to it. This I think, is even worse than a cliff in the natural...
EDIT: Just realised I was talking about the wrong map. +3 retard points for me.
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I think zerg should not be as afraid from cliffs over naturals, as is usually assumed by default. After downloading replay packs from recent tournaments and analyzing % in sc2gears, I noticed zergs actually win many games on Kulas, against the usual reasoning. At least in these recent tourneys.
It could be because more cliffs provide more hiding placements for overlords, or because zergs mobilize themselves to the max, assuming the map is tough for them. I don't know. Note that in most cases you can defend even very early, before lair - spine crawlers + overlords; after lair gets easier.
Meanwhile zergs lose a lot of games on Metalopolis. It could be because they try to get the rich minerals, and sieged tanks shoot them from the xel'naga towers. Both these map claims seemed counter-intuitive to me, but the data doesn't lie.
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there is no good map for zerg
metalopolis isnt thaaat bad though
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DO IS A GOOD ZERG MAP FFS.
It's probably the only zerg-favored map in the entire pool.
Flanking is easily done because you have vision of the entire map and theres so much open space (talking zvt here). You can hatch first like every game cause rush distance is so retardedly long. AND mutas are imba on this map due to insane mobility and short air distance.
Kulas sucks for insane # of cliffs/narrow chokes.
LT sucks cause of that stupid nat cliff but I'm having 2nd thoughts about it cause it's still a really good map in vz/vp.
Steppes/DQ are the only other two worth considering because they have rush distances of like what, 20 seconds? (compared to scrap which has like 60, do has like 80, blis has like 70) DQ is probably the worse one though cause the natural is wide as hell, the backdoor has a fucking cliff on it.
Right now I did kulas, steppes, dq. I do 1-base muta on LT specifically cause of that nat cliff. >.>
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@ohN, going hatch before pool is dangerous because of reaper play on DO. And all the cool kidslike their reaper cheese.
I am actually sad they removed Incineration Zone. Though it was so heavily anti zerg, I had lots of luck on that map and mutas were godly.
Right now, my least favorite map is Kulas. All the other maps are bearable. Even on DQ, most players (terrans) do not get their expo, and even when they do they are so easy to baneling bomb.
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I don't check off any maps, but I suppose I would knock kulas off, but that would be it. Actually naw, FE to the gold is too much fun! ^^ After all, they can't abuse the high ground if you don't get your nat!
In terms of desert oasis, I actually like FE builds on it, since the rush distance is HUGE. The ramp to your main is tiny, so you shouldn't have any trouble defending from run-by attacks, and by the time they move to your base you will probably have a whole extra production cycle on them.
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On August 15 2010 03:48 StarcraftGuy4U wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 03:19 fdsdfg wrote:On August 15 2010 03:13 StarcraftGuy4U wrote:
Kulas is an absolutely abysmal map for zerg, lost temple however with cunning overlord placement and spinecrawlers on the edge of your cliff is actually quite easily defended, and a sloppy terran will suicide two tanks before he realizes.
Well, there's two issues: 1 a siege tank at the far end cannot be reached by the spine crawlers and can power them down 2: a viking can scare away the overlords and there's not a damn thing you can do about it unless you have mutas If he has tanks, medevacs, and vikings, and you have NO answer, you are going to lose for other reasons. The FAST tank drop is the problem, not ANY tank drop.
What are you tlaking about? That IS the standard fast drop build. Please don't say things if you don't know what you're talking about. You already have a starport, it's not hard to get a viking.
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On August 15 2010 05:17 ohN wrote:
DO IS A GOOD ZERG MAP FFS.
It's probably the only zerg-favored map in the entire pool.
Flanking is easily done because you have vision of the entire map and theres so much open space (talking zvt here). You can hatch first like every game cause rush distance is so retardedly long. AND mutas are imba on this map due to insane mobility and short air distance.
Kulas sucks for insane # of cliffs/narrow chokes.
LT sucks cause of that stupid nat cliff but I'm having 2nd thoughts about it cause it's still a really good map in vz/vp.
Steppes/DQ are the only other two worth considering because they have rush distances of like what, 20 seconds? (compared to scrap which has like 60, do has like 80, blis has like 70) DQ is probably the worse one though cause the natural is wide as hell, the backdoor has a fucking cliff on it.
Right now I did kulas, steppes, dq. I do 1-base muta on LT specifically cause of that nat cliff. >.>
The biggest issue with DO (and Steppes) is when siege tanks park on the cliff outside your base - the walk distance is so long that it's difficult to do anything about the tanks, vikings can spot the high ground pretty easily at no risk, and the only thing you can really do about is is mass mutas. Engaging his army head-on with mass mutas is.. very rarely doable.
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DO and KR are absolutely abysmal, as a third I prefer to downvote LT. I actually kind of like delta quadrant and dislike Xelnaga caverns which is completely opposite of most zergs...I actually have never lost a game on Xelnaga caverns but it seems like every time I play it people find new ways to annoy me on it so maybe It's just mental lol.
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Baa?21243 Posts
I love Desert Oasis lol.
My three voted down maps arE:
LT, Kula (cliff FFFFU)
Steppes of War (the ridiculously short rush distance makes stuff like a fast Thor-marine push literally unstoppable for me)
If I had another vote I'd do TerranDelta Quadrant.
I love:
Scrap Station, Desert Oasis
Neutral towards Metalopolis, Blistering Sands, Xel Naga.
I highly encourage people to give DO another try. Speedling Muta gives a great amount of map control, and easy transition to Hydralisks. Expos are easy to take, so you can support your sudden tech switches while containing T/P. As long as you watch out for Void Rays/Banshees, that map should be a Zerg paradise imo...
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dislikes:
large ramps
cliffs over expos
close expos with rocks
short distances to opponents
various chokes
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As terran my strongest maps against Zerg are
Delta Quadrant
Steppes of War
Kulas Ravine
My weakest are
Xel'naga caverns
Desert Oasis
Blistering Sands
With cross position Metalopolis being one of the best for Zerg, while short distance Metalopolis being one of the best for Terran.
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As mediocre Diamond Zerg IMO
Blistering Sands: Great map, love the backdoor entrance
Desert Oasis: I refuse to play on. Terran siege can hit your main and bases are so close quick air raids are even more deadly
Scrap Station: Love the map. This map produces the most fun games so far.
Steppes of War: Hate it. Bases are so close it makes cheezy all in quick rushes too common. If games extent past the 10 minute mark, a fun map though
Xel Naga: Love the wide open map in the middle (well as wide open as these maps get). Probably highest win percentage
Kulas: Despite the built in disadvantages of cliffs over looking naturals, I've found this to be a great map. Lings can really dominate on this map IMO.
Lost Temple: I don't like this map, cliffs overlooking natural and the middle of the map is a death trap for us non-cliff users.
Metalopolis: Balanced and fair map.
Delta Quadrant: IMO this map gives a huge advantage to Terran. Essentially allowing them to 2base turtle
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(2) Blistering Sands
(2) Desert Oasis
(2) Scrap Station
(2) Steppes Of War
(2) Xel'Naga Caverns
(4) Kulas Ravine
(4) Lost Temple
(4) Metalopolis
(4) Delta Quadrant
I vetoed:
(4) Kulas Ravine
(4) Lost Temple
(2) Steppes Of War
I dislike the fast rush on steppes and the cliffs.
I love mutaling, so DO is one of my favorite maps. I also like the 4 player maps as rushes are harder (except the silly cliff ones).
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United States22883 Posts
This has been discussed before. Search please.
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EPT
