Testing Scourge - Page 2

On August 05 2010 06:12 superbabosheki wrote:
SC2 AI would make scourge ridiculously overpowered, and completely negate mutas in ZvZ. Assuming they cost 25/75 and spawn two at a time.

On August 05 2010 06:19 Zanez.smarty wrote:
I don't think the issue is whether the Scourge would be OP. My problem with the scourge is that it is YET ANOTHER unit from SC1 added to SC2. More and more people are wanting to turn the game into SC1 with better graphics. We need NEW units. If you want to play around with Scourge, go nuts. Play SC1. Or even better, remake SC1 in the map editor. I would love to play that every now and then.

Also, Scourge steps on the toes of the Corruptor. I understand no one likes the Corruptor, but rather than bringing back an old unit to do it's job, why don't we come up with some solution to make the Corruptor a viable interesting unit again.

On August 05 2010 06:35 Floophead_III wrote:
You guys don't understand.

Scourge fill a very important role. They are high dps AtA units. Corruptors are AWFUL at stopping drops, taking out key targets, and removing support in big fights. Mutas are good at some things, but they're very expensive and weak in small numbers.

Examples:
Protoss opens proxy voidrays and you went spire thinking he was going robo since he had low gate count. You have 2 queens and a spire almost done when 2 voidrays suddenly appear in your main. Your first queen dies before your 2nd reaches it and the voidrays are about to charge and your spire pops. You make 6 mutas really quickly, but by that time your spire is dead, the voidrays are charged, and another is in your base. Your 6 mutas cannot deal with the charged rays and you lose. Scourge would've instantly killed the rays and brought you back into the game.

Terran is dropping everywhere with a force of marine/tank. You have banelings, lings, and mutas. Your mutas miss a drop heading to your 3rd and your lings/blings are sitting in the middle of the map. 12 marines 2 medivacs and a tank are sitting behind the 3rd's minline. You lose your mutas trying to engage directly, and when the slower blings arrive, T just picks up and runs away. Scourge would've dealt with this much better, either by intercepting the drops by patrolling, or by killing the runaway force.

I'm sure there's many other reasons scourge would be excellent units.

On August 05 2010 06:45 Logo wrote:


Those situations are not realistic. Most players, even on seeing a low # of gateways, would go hydra den first. There's no need for a spire that early. If your opponent pops out 1-2 colossi with low gateways they're vulnerable to lings and until upgraded and in larger numbers hydras can stand up. So you'd go hydra den then spire (or just hydra den on seeing the VRs). In the second example you're engaging your mutas before the banelings get there which is a silly thing to do. If both forces engage at the same time he either has to pick up and risk getting the medivac killed or stay on ground and risk the banelings blowing everything up. Plus you can setup your OLs better to spot the drop and you have better overall vision than BW because of creep tumors.

Anyways there's no doubt that the scourge would be useful, it's just that the # of situations they'd be useful is less than the # of situations in BW. Many people feel that getting a unit that covers more of the Zerg's gaps would be a better choice or that Scourge would be disruptive to some of what we have now. Personally I'm not anti-scourge, I just don't know how well they'd fit. Keep in mind that the inclusion of scourge would also likely mean something for the other races, it's not clear that Zerg is so bad to warrant an additional unit without the other races being compensated.

On August 05 2010 06:48 Floophead_III wrote:


Well here's a common situation. I'm using marine/tank/medivac/hellion in midgame push vs Z. He attacks my push in motion with some combo of ling/bling/roach/muta. There's a ledge nearby. I quickly pick up as much of my force as I can and drop it on the ledge, using whatever spare marines I can to kill mutas. I might lose 1 dropship before it fully unloads, but I get most of my units to safety and manage to do a bunch of damage to the zerg force. If there's scourge, I would've lost everything attempting that.

On August 05 2010 06:52 Logo wrote:


'common'? If the ledge is more than a small distance away you'll lose a large amount of your force, and that's provided the ramp up the legde (if there is one) isn't nearby. It seems like a very specific situation that it'd come in handy. Again I know there are situations where they're useful, it's just not as often as BW because you wouldn't be able to use scourge to counter phoenixes or vikings well and corruptors melt carriers and BCs.

On August 05 2010 06:13 synapse wrote:
I'm guessing scourge now have smart-targetting? They take out quite a few vikings / medivacs even with no micro and a shitload of units attacking them.

On August 05 2010 06:54 Floophead_III wrote:


I do that pretty much every game there's isolated ledges. Kulas and LT are prime examples. Man, if you aren't seeing that type of play, you need to play some more abusive terrans LOL.

On August 05 2010 06:57 Logo wrote:


I see people abuse ledges all the time, but never in a situation where I a) have mutas b) don't have enough mutas to quickly kill medivacs c) lack infestors d) am up against a terran with a strong tank force that prevents me from being able to pick off units in some other fashion and e) don't have drops for my banelings by this point which would counteract the medivac lift anyways.

It's a lot of situations that all have to come together for your scenario to happen in a way that causes heavy losses for the zerg that can't have been avoided.

And you're still like ignoring 1/2 of my point which is that I agree that scourge could be useful in some situations but it's undeniable that they're less useful as other than drops the only air unit that might be more efficiently killed by scourge is void rays which aren't frequently used ZvP past an early void ray rush for a reason.

On August 05 2010 06:56 Saracen wrote:
Scourge autocloning is pretty dumb. On the other hand, I LOVE the model. It's so faithful to the original And yeah, Zerg needs a cost effective way to stop drops.

On August 05 2010 07:10 Whole wrote:
What is autocloning? I'm very confused about what you guys are talking about.