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Russian Federation4447 Posts
My god I have read the most ignorant replies ever posted on this forum. Especially that website http://www.myodynamics.com/articles/bruce.html knows next to NOTHING about Bruce Lee. It claimed that bruce could only squat 95 pounds 10 times during 1965. True, but you also have to remember that he only started to lift weights in 1963 or 1964, his peek was in 1972. Also Bruce was NOT intimately involved with the girl that gave him the medication (which he was allergic to and which killed him) to stop his headache. I dont have sites to quote because these are all in books.
Nearly all people here that vote for Ali know next to NOTHING about Bruce Lee. They look at his size and say "what can a little actor like that do against Ali?"
Why do you even open your mouths on this subject when you have read NOTHING about Bruce Lee? What do you know about his training methods, or one of his regular workouts consisted of? What do you even know about a fight? You seem like experts upon this field yet if you were to step into the ring against anyone who knows how to fight, how do you think you would fight it out? The ring IS NOT as easy as it seems to some experts like you guys.
I will attempt to do an Ali vs Lee analyzation so you idiots can understand. This is for a street fight, no holds barred. Only with no holds barred can we see who is better.
Ali
Advantages:
strength - Ali was tough.
Reach - obviously
Size - obviously
Good analytical fighter
Knows how to take a hit
Powerful upperbody
Disadvantages:
Fought for the ring (rules and limitations)
Can't kick for his life
Cannot grapple
Knows only 4 attacking techniques(jab, cross, hook, uppercut)
Has no clue what is up against him. Never learned about how Lee fights.
Not a powerful lowerbody (no kicks)
Bruce Lee
Disadvantages:
Size
reach
strength
Has not faced huge fighters like Joe Frazier or George Forman. Although he has fought many black belts that challenged him and beat them all.
Advantages:
Did not train for the ring
Able to kick
Regularly trained DEADLY techniques (eye jabs, groin kicks)
Grappled with American wrestling champion.
Good analytical fighter - he analyzed every concept of fighting
Studied Ali's fighting style, knows how ali fights.
Possessed extreme amounts of power with upper body and lower body. Speed x strength = power
I will exclude Speed for advantages for both because both Ali and Lee possessed lightning quick movements.
I will also exclude training from both because both fighters trained intensely. Lee trained as if every workout would be his last. I would assume Ali would train that way aswell.
What it comes down to me making this decision in favor of Bruce Lee is that Ali CANNOT kick and does not know how to receive a Bruce Lee kick. What is Ali gonna do when Bruce Lee starts aiming for Ali's knees? This is something Lee will use to his advantage most of all. Bruce Lee has STUDIED muhummad Ali INTENSELY to mimmick his footwork. Do you what if feels like to be kicked in the knees? Bruce Lee KNOWS EXACTLY HOW Ali fights. Ali knows nothing about Bruce Lee. Anyone with a slightest clue about fighting knows this is a HUGE advantage.
second: Lee will apply techniques that ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THE RING. Muhummad Ali has never been kicked or hit in the groin or finger jabbed in the eye. Bruce Lee's super fast kicks can be either aimed at his knees or his groin. Bruce Lee is NOT going to box ali, Bruce Lee knows boxing would not be something he would win with. Bruce Lee would avoid at all costs to be within boxing range of Ali and would use his much practiced footwork to stay at bay while throwing relentless amounts of kicks at the groin and the knee. Or even at his head.
third: when you train for the ring, you only know how to fight in the ring. You are used to fighting ONLY with gloves on and a referee in case something 'illegal' happens. There is nothing illegal in the street and Bruce Lee trained that way. Btw, the Bruce Lee you see on TV is the same Bruce Lee you saw in real life. I have read eye witness accounts from his acting coworker friends: Bob Wall, Chuck Norris, Bolo Yeung.
This is all considering that Bruce Lee has watched nearly every single Ali fight to copy his footwork. Lee knows how Ali fights while Ali has no clue how Lee would fight. What kind of a fighting strategy would Ali put up against Lee when he doesnt know how Lee fights?
To anyone who knows fighting, without a fighting strategy, you are at a serious disadvantage because you dont know how to apply your advantages to the maximum and your disadvantages to the minimum. Fighting is not simply walking into the ring and plowing your way around like most of you think it is. Go ahead and try fighting one fight in the ring.
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Absolutely foolish! What makes you think Ali didn't know anything about Lee? Guessing? And what makes you think Ali didn't know how to hit someone below the belt, jab their eye, or bite them? Anyone can do that, moron. But not anyone can do that vs Ali due to his reach.
Bottom line: There is nothing a 140lb (max) fighter can do vs a professional heavy weight despite what your little mind might say.
Top heavy weights make 40 mill plus per fight. If there is any tiny-tot that can stand up against that, they would.
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It amazes me how many retards there are in this forum, I mean I know your all newbs at broodwars or just come here hoping rekrul or leg will talk to you so you can feel good, pathetic fuckers, but this is so retarded for people to say ali would have any chance at all. I mean you all say ali was 6'3 some lied and said 6'5 like the retards they are.But anyways ali was 6'3 212-225 in his prime.Bruce lee was 5'7 with the arm reach of a 6" but to the idiots that think that would matter in a fight your crazy.Bruce lee was The best fighter to have ever lived.Ali was the greatest boxer but he even lost 5 fights in his career.BruceLee fought all the time and never lost,Chuck norris even said no man would stand a chance vs lee.Hes too fast and powerful.If any of you have seen the outtakes of his last film "the game of death" hedjump and had both feet at Kareems Head. Listen boys and girls Kareem was 7'4.I know you will say its just a fucking movie.But the jump was real his homefootage of his training was real.He fought all the time and was being challanged almost everyday in china.In fact they had a bounty on him if any man could whip him they would get a movie contract.Now imagine how many fights he must have been in, and he never lost one.Not only would brucelee kill ali who would kill anyone you can think of.No Man alive today would have won a fight vs him and thats the truth much less a boxer.I am a huge muhammed ali fan I have all his fights taped and many of his interviews the man is a legend, but he would have got killed vs brucelee.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
no, not guessing, but knowing the fact is Lee has watched countless of Ali videos to study him. How would you study Bruce Lee if you were to fight him tomorrow? Watch videos? there are none. You have to realize that nearly every single fighter in every single league or tournament uses videotapes and watches their opponent to study them before a fight.
Your oppinion comes straight out of a mouth of someone that has never read a single thing about a fight. If you know nothing about Lee then why do you even speak about him? Talk about little minds.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
Btw, for all your Bruce Lee doubters, how much fighting experience or training experience do you have at all? This type of ignorance is the same type of ignorance I see when some idiot during a boxing match yells at the boxers that he could fight much better than they can. This comes straight from an overweight idiot who actually thinks he knows anything about fighting in the ring. Same type of idiocy I see in this forum when people claiming they know the essence of a fight, would start to analyze it with complete ignorance. Unbelievable I tell you, absolutely unbelievable.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 28 2004 19:31 Niza wrote:
white ppl r dumb, all they know is about size, size does not matter when it comes to martial arts. the bigger u r the harder u fall. ali is too slow, speed>strength. use ur brain dumb ass crackers
[EDIT: Try to be nice. Thx. - mensrea]
Go watch some UFC/Pride and get educated :[
Bruce himself said Ali was 'too fast' -_-
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So it's ignorant to think that a movie star might have less experience in fighting than a legendary heavyweight boxing world champion? Does anyone need to be a champion himself to judge that?
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Why don't you tell us about your professional fighting skills?
You clearly can't read or you would have responded to my points.
I am female but I bet I would beat you silly because you are stupid and maybe 5'2 at best.
Watch more movies and be more disillusioned. Wow, Wonderwoman would abuse Lee, she's gosu...
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Who gives a fuck about movies?? I am fucking going crazy here. How many vital signs is in the body? Bruce lee would have taken ali down in 2 seconds snapped his neck and then ran up a wall down a back flip and shit on his face. STFU already your all stupid as fuck to think ali would have won a fight.Joe frazier was a street fighter and would have ripped ali a new ass in a street fight.You cant match a butterfly to a dragon.DONT EVEN TRY TO.ITS over GG NO RE YOUR DONE FATALITY NO MAS LEAVE IT ALONE. He cant win njasljkhflajdfkjlbadsf!!!!!!
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Hihi that's so phunny 
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
Yeah frozenarbiter. I watch UFC/Pride constantly, I have downloaded hundreds of videos from both. They are my two most favourites to watch. I also watch the k1 all the time too. The k1 just recently opened up a grappling part to it and I see 150 pound experienced grapplers vs 230 pound strikers all the time. Its funny how so many of these 150 pound grapplers win constantly vs these 230 pound strikers.
I have to agree with Niza on the fact that most of these so called 'educated' people in this forum keep stressing the fact that the bigger you are, the more impossible it is to beat you. Same type of people that have never studied the art of fighting.
And Frozenarbiter, Bruce Lee never said Ali was too fast for Lee to handle. Bruce was just as fast if not faster. Ali was too fast for his competition.
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Let me go extremist here, it would be a tie.
Edit - Nah, Bruce Lee would kick his ass
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 28 2004 20:36 kewlsunman wrote:
It's interesting that there's so much discussion of physics in this debate. I think, however, the best case to be made for Bruce Lee is technique. Now, to be honest, I'm not particularly read up on either, so I can't definitely argue one way or the other, however, for those who are, I'd like to make a point about Bruce Lee which I think has been omitted so far: there is much more to a fight than physics.
For instance, there has been a lot of valid points made about distance, force, etc. But that's hardly what fighting is about. I mean, the argument so far has been that Ali was bigger. But, not to be stereotypical, it seems that that is a very Western response. If you ask anybody from the East to size up two guys, I'm not so sure they'd be so quick to identify the bigger guy as winning.
Eastern martial arts focus a lot on not simply physical conditioning, but also techniques, philosophy, aesthetics--none of which many of you will see any value in, but in fact decides a great deal. For instance, the Japanese art of Aikido, you are using the other person's force against them, right? Ali throws one giant punch at Lee, Lee takes that directional momentum and adds onto it by throwing him in the same direction and you Ali planted in the ground.
Maybe not so simple, but I suppose I'm saying, fighting isn't always --> <--. It's not always a duality. Sometimes by manipulating to be --> --> you can force one side to an extreme, throwing them off balance, etc.
For an easy to comprehend metaphor, it's like playing a BGH player. All he does is mass and send units right? Whereas you're microing, you're harassing, etc. It's very similar.
If this still isn't convincing enough, if you take a look at the UFC, there's a guy there called Tank, and basically he's just this huge guy who doesn't have any formal training but he just fights a lot. Well, there are matches where he's pitted against smaller guys and they just tear him up because they know what to do. Of course, that's much exaggerated because Tank is fat, slow, whereas Ali is slim, fast. But then again, his opponents are no Bruce Lee either.
-ksm
You watch UFC and still believe in such bollocks as aikido :O?
Both Lee and Ali have technique -_-~
Tank is there as a 'Freak show' kind of thing - as was Sapp, but he's training seriously now -_-~
Aikido is fairytales bollocks O_o
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 28 2004 20:50 kewlsunman wrote: By the way, another quick point, this one to deal with the physics. Force = mass x acceleration. If anyone's ever seen clips of Bruce Lee practicing, not even necessarily in the movies, if you don't believe those, but just messing around, demonstrations, whatever. You can tell that's he's fast. His acceleration must be incredible, the amount of force packed behind his punch may seriously knock Ali for a ride even if he's used to bigger people punch him. http://davidlancashire.tripod.com/BruceLeefeats/feats.html:"Bruce once caved in a protective headgear made from heavy steel rods, rods that had previousl withstood several blows from a sledge hammer" Interesting read for anybody who's interested: http://www.wcats.com/LectureII.phpAlso, about the whole thing that Bruce would get his head punched off. Though I cannot prove or cite evidence for it myself, there is good evidence to suggest that with enough of certain martial art training, one could withstand the force of a lead pipe to the head at above average swinging velocity with minimal damage. -ksm
Not a lead pipe - qi gong people constantly do things like break sticks over their heads etc -_- But never would you be able to do that if the person is swinging to hurt ye -_-~
Boxing punches - the state of the art in punching, there is no better, anywhere-_-
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 28 2004 20:52 Zerius wrote:
Also, Tien you are motherfucking retarded and know nothing about anything.
"ALI AHS NEVER BEEN KICKED EVER IN HIS ENTIRE LIFE?!?!" to roughly quote your inane babble. This is a false statement. Ali fought Antonio Inoki in 1976. All Inoki did was throw kicks at Ali. It was sort of an exhibition fight that was ruled a 15 round draw at the end, but this isnt important. What is important is that it is now obvious that you have no facts about anything and can feel free to shut the fuck anytime.
Inoki did low kicks from floor position  Ali had to go to the hospital with a massively swollen leg, thus had to cancel his fight in the following week or whatever. It did show, however, that he could cope with leg kicks
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 28 2004 21:26 soundwave wrote:
by the way i think lee would win.
check out the countless fights lee had vs bolo yeung (a huge sized maybe as big as ali). ok it was a movie, but it's a demonstration on how a shorter thiner lighter dude can beat a bigger one.
This reminds me of when some moron claimed Van Damme to be an excellent fighter, stating he would be able to take on Bob Sapp. "Sure it's in the movies, but it's still martial arts right?"
:[
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
The bigger you are argument is completely bullshit. Its like the argument where you say the bigger your army, the more impossible it is to lose. Now how many times have this been proven wrong? Hannibal massacred a 76000 roman army using a force of only 30000, losing only 2500. Size is not the deciding factor of a fight, this has been proven too much in history.
As for my experience. I have studied 5 years on Kung Fu, 2 years of kickboxing, and a year in a street fighting school. www.Senshido.com is this street fighting martial arts school. I have fought in countless amounts of kickboxing tournaments. I have read nearly everything there has to be read about Bruce Lee, all his books, all his training regiments. I have studied boxing too, especially Ali himself. I have many of his fights on video. I also regularly watch upcomming boxing bouts and analyze them.
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Tien owns this topic
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EPT
