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On July 08 2010 00:44 Pandonetho wrote:Let's be honest here. Is Blizzard tech support the first place you think of going when you need help? If yes, then you have a point. For me, my tech support goes to the forums where the community is much more likely to reply way faster than waiting for a Blizz rep to reply. Show nested quote +To me putting up with trolls is worth the gain given by anonymity, and that's assuming this move will significantly cut down on trolling, which I do not think it will. Really? Is that why you look to the battle.net forums currently, for discussion, instead of a well moderated site such as this? /SARCASM
Once again, not the point =/
This is not about the Battlenet forums specifically, it is about the principle in general. If Blizzard does this, and is successful with it, the trend will spread and it WILL affect avenues of genuine discourse.
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On July 08 2010 00:47 Pandonetho wrote:Show nested quote +With this whole real name thing, if it's "successful", then other companies might try and do the same thing, and when it becomes the norm it'll be very difficult to undo. If it's a success it's because of the people, not the company. Are you people really construing the idea that Blizzard is the ones that are ruining people's lives here? This is ONE instance of this being tried, and no one has even GIVEN it a chance. If it becomes a success, it's because the people who used it made it a success. We're in a Democracy, not a communist country. If it's a bad idea, and everyone really is against it then no one will use it and it will fail.
I have no doubt some people will like it, however if you look at the poll on the first page of this thread it's evident that a lot of people don't, and their solution is "don't go to the bnet forums". The people who like/accept it will go there and the people who don't, won't. Once this dies down a bit and other companies see that they can profit from this, then they might do it as well, and the likely reply will be "well don't go there". See how such acceptance just leaves them free to do what they want? Even if most people are against it, it doesn't necessarily mean it'll "fail", especially if they accept it and "go somewhere else".
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On July 08 2010 00:33 Pandonetho wrote:Show nested quote +
"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."
Reading Comprehension Police
What does any of this have to do with "coming to you" exactly? You're not being forced to use the forums, so your post is completely irrelevant.
Ha ha, amazing that someone can't get the point. Well actually it is not that amazing. Here, I will help.
"THEY CAME FIRST for the forums,
and I didn't speak up because I don't post there.
THEN THEY CAME for the ______,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a ______.
etc.
Do you get it now?
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I have no doubt some people will like it, however if you look at the poll on the first page of this thread it's evident that a lot of people don't, and their solution is "don't go to the bnet forums". The people who like/accept it will go there and the people who don't, won't. Once this dies down a bit and other companies see that they can profit from this, then they might do it as well, and the likely reply will be "well don't go there". See how such acceptance just leaves them free to do what they want? Even if most people are against it, it doesn't necessarily mean it'll "fail", they just have to accept it and "go somewhere else".
The most likely ones to cry out are those who are against something. People who are satisfied or don't feel affected probably wouldn't even think twice about it, let alone come to a forum to combat the waves of other people who are against it. Secondly, I'm really curious as to how people think Blizzard is profiting from this? It's twice I heard about this now, and I'm genuinely curious to know how this is profitable, and why other companies would see it as profitable and follow suit.
"THEY CAME FIRST for the forums,
and I didn't speak up because I don't post there.
THEN THEY CAME for the ______,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a ______.
etc.
Do you get it now?
Yes thanks for clarifying. Frankly, I think your analogy is pretty far fetched. You agree completely to the terms of the forums if you want to use it. This is what happens when we live in a democracy. Blizzard has every right in America to do whatever they want with their game, it's you who accepted the terms when you signed up or bought the game and registered. Frankly, that's what being a democracy about and the people will decide how far things will go. This is a matter of a game, not a matter of extinguishing Jews. You think Jews had any power at all? Even if they didn't want to be sent to concentration camps they had no choice. You have the choice not to buy Blizzard's product, they won't come to you and force you to buy it. Gaming is an entertainment, a luxury, not a necessity.
So I still stand by my statement that people are overreacting and should give it a chance.
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On July 08 2010 00:42 Plethora wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 00:32 Tray wrote:
It has nothing to do with privacy and everything to do with anonymity. If you cared about privacy you simply wouldn't post.
This statement is at least partially true. That does not make arguing against this bad. Anonymity has value too. It'll take approximately 2 seconds before someone following the rules with lets say an Indian name (for the sake of argument), posts something, and some ignorant 13 yr old kid with the name "Michael Hunt" starts making jokes about getting back to the tech support line. Part of the reason the internet is a great place is precisely because we can leave ethnicities, nationalities, and their associated stereotypes behind in an effort to have a civil conversation. To me putting up with trolls is worth the gain given by anonymity, and that's assuming this move will significantly cut down on trolling, which I do not think it will.
To me this is the only argument that is at least somewhat valid. "Is it worth it to lose anonymity to reduce trolling?" From a player perspective it varies from person to person. From Blizzard's perspective though, it's definitely worth it. They'll have less moderation and therefore lower costs, which is probably the main reason they're doing it. They want to drive traffic away from their forums to provide higher value, lower cost experience.
With respect to trolling, it will without a doubt decrease. You cannot change your name on your account. If you make a fake account, you will have a very difficult time recovering it should something happen. If you are playing WoW your account name needs to match your CC info, or so I've been told, I stopped playing a couple years ago.
Will there be people who do this? Of course there will, but they will stand out as trolls very easily and be quickly banned. The deterent for doing this is also very high, because if Blizzard decides you falsified info on your account, they can ban your account completely, losing all keys attached to it.
If you think that everyone is going to be using fake names and that trolling will be the same, then you haven't considered the implications of this change very well or perhaps you don't understand the various incentives and disincentives involved.
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So basically they want to ruin the experience for a bunch of people because they simply don't want to spend the time to moderate the forums as much as they should. good move!
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tray has no idea what he is talking about
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On July 08 2010 00:56 Pandonetho wrote:
The most likely ones to cry out are those who are against something. People who are satisfied or don't feel affected probably wouldn't even think twice about it, let alone come to a forum to combat the waves of other people who are against it. Secondly, I'm really curious as to how people think Blizzard is profiting from this? It's twice I heard about this now, and I'm genuinely curious to know how this is profitable, and why other companies would see it as profitable and follow suit.
Why does any company release their user's personal info? Advertisement and marketing. I suspect this is somehow facebook related. If it's not then Blizzard are just idiots for doing this, as the losses from this far outweigh any potential gain.
Also, I'm not sure what to say about your first point, as that was sort of my own.
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So basically they want to ruin the experience for a bunch of people because they simply don't want to spend the time to moderate the forums as much as they should. good move!
What experience? Who are you to decide what experience is being ruined and for whom? Like all things in life, there are people who support things, and people who don't support things. You think the original forums were not already experience ruining? Blizzard is providing a service, not a charity. They aren't obligated to pay some guy to sit all day and moderate a forum.
Why does any company release their user's personal info? Advertisement and marketing. I suspect this is somehow facebook related. If it's not then Blizzard are just idiots for doing this, as the losses from this far outweigh any potential gain.
This is ridiculous. Blizzard isn't releasing information to anyone. Here's how it works. You sign up, and agree to the terms of use to that forum, one term being that your full name must show up when you post. Can we please know the topic at hand here? The only thing that's been done here is the requirement of a full name to post. How is that in ANY way releasing information about people's privates lives for money? And to WHOM are they releasing information to?
This talk about profit is purely unrelated and irrelevant, and should be dropped right now.
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I love this idea.
No more trolls, maybe more serious and mature discussions. It's not like people are going to look you up and kill you. Politicians say stuff all day that a lot of people dissagree to and which effects some peope in big negative ways, still nobodys going on political killing rampage here in Sweden.
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On July 08 2010 00:50 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 00:32 Tray wrote:On July 08 2010 00:21 keV. wrote:On July 07 2010 22:32 Tray wrote:
Based on the comments in here I've never been more convinced this is a great idea. If the retards on here who say they won't buy the game because they can't troll the official forums without their name being there are being honest (most of them aren't), then the forums will actually be a useful place to visit from time to time.
It's the same illogical retards that are arguing against their names being posted that are the ones ruining the forums. The two groups probably have nearly identical overlap. You really don't read at all and your posting in this whole thread has been awful. All you do is hurl insults at people even though no one has been talking about trolling for 50 pages. It has nothing to do with trolling, what you are doing IS trolling. People aren't comfortable giving out their real name, that is reason people are upset, it has nothing to do with not being able to troll. I can't wait until they do go live with real names so maybe you will stop spouting nonsense here and you can have your precious "troll free" bnet forums. If you weren't comfortable giving out your real name, you simply wouldn't post on the bnet forums anymore. You wouldn't be crying about it over 90 pages. I see right through your lie, similar to the one where you pretended to say you were going to ignore me about 40 pages back. Just be honest. You're worried that now your possibly racist, insulting, and derogitory posts will now have your name attached to them for the world to see through google and you don't like it. It has nothing to do with privacy and everything to do with anonymity. If you cared about privacy you simply wouldn't post. Also thank you to all the other people who proved my point replying to me with unfounded statements like, "if you really believe this you're just an idiot." You people are EXACTLY the kind of posters Blizzard is trying to get rid of. People who add nothing, provide no insight, and have no logical reasoning capabilities. That's all there used to be on the bnet forums, and now those people will be in the open for everyone to mock and discredit. I can't wait. Firstly, grats on getting a post out that doesn't call anyone an idiot or a retard! You're well on your way to being worth listening to! Again, I said that I wouldn't post. I never used the bnet forums anyway. I've said this multiple times through the whole thread, but you have a severe comprehension disorder. Anyone one of the people that have bothered to respond to you can identify that. I simply understand why some people do not want to have to their real name attached to a video game forum, if you don't then fine, nothing is going to make you. Like I said before, my name is Kevin and my handle is keV and if keV is taken it is my initials (KTA). My steam page has my real name. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with my personal opinion on the matter, it has everything to do with me wanting to stop this obsession with tying your personal life in with the internet. I have friends and family who would rather play in private. They don't even use the forums. My issue is not with the change of having real ID attached to your forum posts (though I think it is pointless and understand why some posters would not want to deal with it) because you CAN avoid it by simply not posting and that is FINE. If blizzard-activision can promise me that this is as far as they will take real life integration... and maybe having the tech support forums be initials only.. I can call it even and continue buying their products. The problem is that they can't promise me that. I think the way gaming is handled is fine, you have great places like TL and other fansites that are heavily policed where you can (generally) find good content. I have formed great online relationships with e-friends, some have lasted over a decade all with an alias, and the gradually to a more first name basis. I actually got so friendly with the people I play games with that I started using my real name as a handle. I don't see how forcing people into the phase that I am in is beneficial to certain people who are not ready for that kind of reality. How far do things have to go before you actually believe that there is a true invasion of privacy? Would you rather see how far we can push it? Or, do you believe that maybe it just isn't worth it at all. I'll take the latter.
I only skimmed your post because you went into some ridiculous hyperbole, but to answer your last paragraph, they will have gone too far when everyone can see my real name in game without me allowing access to it. Or more specifically, when I no longer have the choice to hide my real name. Bnet forums are owned by Blizzard and therefore they're allowed to restrict/moderate them however they please. I will simply not post there if I don't want my name attached to a post. If they put my real name next to my handle in the game, that would be too far.
The line is pretty clear to me, and I'm sorry if it isn't for you.
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I think a lot of people on here are being selfish. Yeah, it probably won't affect YOU, and YOU'RE not scared anything bad will come of it...are you everyone?
Who are Blizzard to start handing out something very important to a lot of people, just to fix a fucking problem with their stupid forums? How would you feel if Verizon started handing out your full name to anyone on the street just to clean out their databases instead of hiring a few guys to clean it up?
You don't fix this problem by going around trying to convince people that their full name being broadcast on the internet isn't a problem. You CERTAINLY don't fix a trivial problem with your forums with a sledgehammer approach like this. Its unethical. What guarantee does Blizzard give that some psycho-rapist murderer crazy bastard isn't going to hunt down and kill you using that information as a starting point? It might not happen to you, but the day it happens to somebody I'll bet you'll feel like an asshole.
I mean really, why not just make it so you have to pick ONE character to post on the forums with, and even if you delete that character, it remains locked to the account as the poster.
Bam.
Problem solved, no personal information handed out.
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What does any of this have to do with "coming to you" exactly? You're not being forced to use the forums, so your post is completely irrelevant.
This could apply to new features like the "real life" friend list in bnet 2.0. If you like it you can use it. If you don't, just ignore it.
But blizzard is removing something from players who want to keep their name out of a video game experience. I won't develop how your name can directly lead to public stuff like your gender, your ethnic origin and to indirect personal stuff on the internet.
Keep in mind that the official forum is the only way to give your feedback to Blizzard. I don't want to give my name on forums so I cannot give my feedback about the game (including bugs) ?
When this "new feature" will come out, players who let down their personal informations will be more important than the players who don't for Blizzard.
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Long time reader, first time poster.
I can in no way see how this will be effective. Trolls will always be trolls, they will work they way around this, like they always do. This will only lead to people beeing more conservative and, shy perhaps? when talking to strangers online. With this, you will no longer be a total stranger. The nickname will have a face, a name and a city. All of those things are awesome, once you get to know one another, but not to total strangers, not when you want to learn to know someone.
What if a really shy person who is bullied in school, gets home and finds it calming and safe to log on to the web, and talk to your clanmates or inet friends, who do not judge you. This phenomena could disappear, because the shy bullied boy will not only be shy irl, he will also be shy on the internet, since someone he talks to could have heard of him or whatever.
This is bullshit.
Like it or not, but I'm sure that this will be sort of the standard in the near future.
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On July 08 2010 00:56 Pandonetho wrote:Show nested quote +I have no doubt some people will like it, however if you look at the poll on the first page of this thread it's evident that a lot of people don't, and their solution is "don't go to the bnet forums". The people who like/accept it will go there and the people who don't, won't. Once this dies down a bit and other companies see that they can profit from this, then they might do it as well, and the likely reply will be "well don't go there". See how such acceptance just leaves them free to do what they want? Even if most people are against it, it doesn't necessarily mean it'll "fail", they just have to accept it and "go somewhere else". The most likely ones to cry out are those who are against something. People who are satisfied or don't feel affected probably wouldn't even think twice about it, let alone come to a forum to combat the waves of other people who are against it. Secondly, I'm really curious as to how people think Blizzard is profiting from this? It's twice I heard about this now, and I'm genuinely curious to know how this is profitable, and why other companies would see it as profitable and follow suit. Show nested quote +
"THEY CAME FIRST for the forums,
and I didn't speak up because I don't post there.
THEN THEY CAME for the ______,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a ______.
etc.
Do you get it now?
Yes thanks for clarifying. Frankly, I think your analogy is pretty far fetched. You agree completely to the terms of the forums if you want to use it. This is what happens when we live in a democracy. Blizzard has every right in America to do whatever they want with their game, it's you who accepted the terms when you signed up or bought the game and registered. Frankly, that's what being a democracy about and the people will decide how far things will go. This is a matter of a game, not a matter of extinguishing Jews. You think Jews had any power at all? Even if they didn't want to be sent to concentration camps they had no choice. You have the choice not to buy Blizzard's product, they won't come to you and force you to buy it. Gaming is an entertainment, a luxury, not a necessity. So I still stand by my statement that people are overreacting and should give it a chance.
ADD PRIVACY PROTECTION FOR ONLY AN EXTRA $2.99 A MONTH. I'm joking obviously, but ask yourself if it is really outside the realm of possibility before you guffaw.
It should be plainly obvious that the lesson in the expression I used, is not about the Jews. It's not a metaphor.
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This is absolutely ridiculous lol, do you have to provide ID when you make your account or some shit? 
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See, crazy people do play WoW, they don't need our real names!
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Who are Blizzard to start handing out something very important to a lot of people, just to fix a fucking problem with their stupid forums? How would you feel if Verizon started handing out your full name to anyone on the street just to clean out their databases instead of hiring a few guys to clean it up?
Let's get this straight. Blizzard isn't handing out your name to anyone. You agree to use the name yourself if you post it on the forums. It will be displayed publicly. That is different from Blizzard handing out your name to other people.
You don't fix this problem by going around trying to convince people that their full name being broadcast on the internet isn't a problem. You CERTAINLY don't fix a trivial problem with your forums with a sledgehammer approach like this. Its unethical. What guarantee does Blizzard give that some psycho-rapist murderer crazy bastard isn't going to hunt down and kill you using that information as a starting point? It might not happen to you, but the day it happens to somebody I'll bet you'll feel like an asshole.
You do know how ridiculously easy it is for any dedicated person to look you up anyway right? Knowing your first name will be a great starting point, but any person dedicated to harassing you will find your information regardless. Certainly, I'm not paranoid enough to believe that out of the thousands of people that could be posting on the forums, that I would be singled out to be harassed. And for what? Why would a random stranger harass me out of everyone else? It's not like I even talked to him, and if I did, then he would equally be revealing his name to the world.
ADD PRIVACY PROTECTION FOR ONLY AN EXTRA $2.99 A MONTH. I'm joking obviously, but ask yourself if it is really outside the realm of possibility before you guffaw.
It should be plainly obvious that the lesson in the expression I used, is not about the Jews. It's not a metaphor.
Why would you pay for privacy? You do know that's illegal right, if Blizzard is blackmailing you? So yes, it is exactly outside the realm of possibility that to protect your privacy, you have to pay Blizzard.
Secondly, I would like it if you explained your expression in layman terms because I don't get what you mean still, if what I talked about didn't address the problem. No, it's not plainly obvious to me, and if you continue to beat around the bush I won't bother replying because it's obvious that you have no intention of a civil discussion and like to troll around.
From what I understand every example used in your expression had something to do with forces that were outside the realm of the subject's control. That is, the Germans went for the Jews yes? And the jews couldn't do a thing about it. My point is that does not apply here. Blizzard will not "come for you".
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EPT
