Map Balance - The Worst of the Worst - Page 11

I find it hilarious how Artosis likes to name drop "Idra" whenever he's trying to defend himself

bitching about a maps features doesn't help anything

Maps affect play STYLE

i think you should practice more than one build order

On June 20 2010 03:06 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Alou brings up a good point. Idra and Artosis play one playstyle 100% of the time. FE into a massive macro push with mass Roach or Hydra.

Whatever happened to BW where that shit would not fly? For example I was a P player and I KNEW that I could not do a macro war on Bluestorm. I also knew that Medusa and Colo it paid to be uber aggressive with 10/15 Goon Rush.

I think most of these players are not playing for the map and playing for the MU

On June 19 2010 20:20 MorroW wrote:
i laff at this cause imo desert oasis was the best map for zvt
u cant play mech turtle cause of all the open areas and huge distances to everywhere and u cant make good timing pushes cause of the long distances

i think its safe to say all the maps r insanely imbalanced, cmon here they r blizzard maps. do u really expect the first maps made to be good at all?

mech works just like mech in sc1, u kill tons of units compared to the unit cost, short distances and small areas favors mech play, destination, stepps of war
u cant play bio in tvz, so ur basically just talking about bio mech which is too little to talk about balance for imo

On June 19 2010 23:42 OneFierceZealot wrote:


Christ man you spelled something wrong... never mind and im pretty sure im not the only one who assumed that when they played on ICCup that ICCup made the maps seeing how it says ICCup Destination, ICCup Fighting Spirit. etc.

On June 20 2010 05:23 Liquid`NonY wrote:
I'm not a fan of map discussions without stats. But that's just me. People should take this for what it's worth. A ton of people are undervaluing this and some are overvaluing this.

Imagine chat channels existed (it's a stretch, I know) and you happened to join one with Artosis and IdrA in it. You're a Zerg player and you've been wondering how the different maps change how Zerg works. You get up the courage to ask these people for their opinions... and to your surprise, not only do they answer you, but they write 1000's of words on it. That kinda stuff is pure gold to a ton of people.

It's not about proving which map is balanced one way or the other. It's just that in their thousands of games played, Artosis and IdrA have noticed that some maps are very good for them as Zerg and some are pretty bad. That's interesting. It's the first step in understanding how certain features of maps are going to favor particular races.

This forum is for discussion folks, not critiquing. Evaluating and judging OP's like this is a waste. Engage in the discussion and grapple with the ideas.

On June 20 2010 05:53 Madkipz wrote:
no, this article was formed drawing upon both of their vast knowledge from relentlessly playing the game. He did not make this article and end up sprinking Idras name over it while only drawing upon his own oppinions for good measure, god some people are really dense.


You have to realise that it is not bitching and rather than bash people it is important for those of us who actually MAKE maps, It is my hope that we will see some creative yet new standard that is not blizzard standard. However i wanted to know just how they precieve the current map pool so that i can maybe make a better map. Artosis with his article is worth its weight in gold to me and i hope it promotes more discussion at the subject of map balance and current resource standard.

Maps can also promote certain styles but just because one is optimal does not mean you cant attempt to force your style of play upon the map and make minor adjustement to optimise it. ,



again your not seeing the broad strokes. JUST because a map promotes certain styles of play it does not mean they should THROW months of practice into a vastly different one.

On June 20 2010 06:12 Merikh wrote:
To turn the tide of this thread:

How can we change Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine to feel good against all match ups?

Personally an idea for Kulas Ravine is to remove the entrance rocks from the high ground expansion (from your main to the expo).

On June 20 2010 06:12 Merikh wrote:
To turn the tide of this thread:

How can we change Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine to feel good against all match ups?

Personally an idea for Kulas Ravine is to remove the entrance rocks from the high ground expansion (from your main to the expo).

On June 20 2010 06:13 iCCup.Diamond wrote:


Get rid of them. They are both just bad maps. I sort of like Kulas (Nony-blink ftw!) but DO is just plain stupid.

lol, so it takes idra 4 days of practice to almost qualify for osl but months to learn a new build order for a ladder map

On June 20 2010 05:57 Merikh wrote:


That's false the 100% same playstyle part. (Based on watching his streams Artosis mixes his builds up a lot. Like a delayed expo, based on early 2 gate pressure etc... As for IdrA he's more of a 99.9% same playstyle type player when it comes to FE he's more of a mind game player imo)

On June 20 2010 06:12 Merikh wrote:
To turn the tide of this thread:

How can we change Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine to feel good against all match ups?

Personally an idea for Kulas Ravine is to remove the entrance rocks from the high ground expansion (from your main to the expo).

(Also I think we need to fix lost temple's cliffs next to the natural expansion whereas only thor drops on the cliff can hit the gas and not the natural expansion itself.)

Discuss

On June 20 2010 06:21 Alou wrote:


What you're describing is how they have to alter things to fit the current game. Not a change in their playstyle. They still have the same general ideas going in from what I've seen. Of course if a player has early zealot harass he won't feel safe to expand, but he will steal deal with the harass, expand, and go back to how he has been playing. I think my other post highlights my opinion on this. I think players who want this macro oriented almost mechanical game need to be able to take a step back and try something different if their style isn't fitting the map.