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On June 02 2010 20:02 lew wrote:
Thors are weak vs overlords so those will not be sniped that fast.
Although I really like these ideas, have you ever seen 3-4 thors vs a group of overlords? Especially now with the increase in gas cost for a viable overlord drop (you are not dropping without Pneumatized Carapace, I assume, haha) Add 1-2 vikings as Terran mech style seems to be evolving into, and the overlords really have no chance...
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If you are going to make SC1 comparisons...
Imagine that its SC1, tanks have superior AI and don't overkill, and now goliaths do splash damage. Contratulations you have SC2.
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Lz simply gets outplayed, yet still wins on the power of mech alone. My friend plays terran fairly strongly in BW, and was shocked that zerg lost this game.
Go to ~1:40
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/7379533
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i am really sick of the terran playing posters that are just calling everyone whiners. this website is for the community to come together and share ideas and help each other. the other players arnt saying shit either except that this or that is imba cry cry cry instead of putting forth any input at all. if you dont have any strat or input that relates to the topic stfu and dont post anything at all. specially if your a noob ass bronze/silver/gold/plat player.13 pages of shit posts with scarce information here and there. you trollers are killing team liquid.
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On June 03 2010 10:12 Wr3k wrote:
If you are going to make SC1 comparisons...
Imagine that its SC1, tanks have superior AI and don't overkill, and now goliaths do splash damage. Contratulations you have SC2.
You forgot to take away dark swarm.
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Zerg can open with three bases in SC1. GL with that in SC2.
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i got a few reps at home where i beat some rather crafty mech terrans. my strat mostly revolves around strait muta/ling with bling/ling drops. very gas heavy even on two base but they are the only units that seem to work.
whatever you do dont go hydra its a stupid joke.
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Terran mech is only imba when you're playing against people who don't know how to play vs mech. (if all that makes sense)
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People simply havent figured out to abuse the weaknesses of Terran Mech. As long as that is the case it seems IMBA, but so does a cannon rush until you figure out how to beat it.
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On June 03 2010 10:04 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 08:07 Myown wrote:On June 02 2010 20:38 SpicyCrab wrote:[B]
a 100/200 terran mech army runs over a 200/200 zerg.
show me a replay of that happening outside of some ridiculously contrived circumstance that would never actually happen in a real game. People need to be a little bit more realistic about the things they say... Really. Have you seen Qxc vs Sheth (Sorry if i mispelled ;p) ? I Don't remember which tournament it was tho but those last 2 games were quite horrible to see for zerg players. It was map dominance from Sheth and like, 16-17 ultras at a time versus only half of Qxc army.. nothing more to do there for him, he kept going on and on from 200/200 to under 100. I mean, that was pretty ridiculous that despite having all those strong units he couldn't manage to take out 1 expansion where half Qxc's army was sitting. I saw this on Iccup tv. I realize maybe he could have done something else but still, that was a lot of units and it was at top level. That's also a situation where sheth could have gotten a billion corrupters and broodlords and fought instead of getting a metric shit ton of ultralisks, which are slow and melt to tank fire. Not to mention the fact that he didn't get any lings at all, which I think could have gotten at least a few hits off, not really doing a lot of damage, but at least some instead of just a ton of slow moving ultralisks that just die. Also, that game looked a lot like sheth had given up and was just being annoyed and showing how shitty ultralisks were.
I've seen a game where people get Corruptor Broodlords and still get raped. HSM from 10 ravens = 20 HSM = 2000 AOE damage = dead Corruptor Broodlords easily. Not to mention the Terran is turret whoring and has mass vikings...
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Siege Mode and Tanks are really strong tbh, it's stronger with Ghost and Helions protecting, you really don't need those marines, turrets will do against air units, mech is super strong imo
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On June 03 2010 10:12 Wr3k wrote:
If you are going to make SC1 comparisons...
Imagine that its SC1, tanks have superior AI and don't overkill, and now goliaths do splash damage. Contratulations you have SC2.
+1
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On June 03 2010 13:47 frogmelter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 10:04 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:On June 03 2010 08:07 Myown wrote:On June 02 2010 20:38 SpicyCrab wrote:[B]
a 100/200 terran mech army runs over a 200/200 zerg.
show me a replay of that happening outside of some ridiculously contrived circumstance that would never actually happen in a real game. People need to be a little bit more realistic about the things they say... Really. Have you seen Qxc vs Sheth (Sorry if i mispelled ;p) ? I Don't remember which tournament it was tho but those last 2 games were quite horrible to see for zerg players. It was map dominance from Sheth and like, 16-17 ultras at a time versus only half of Qxc army.. nothing more to do there for him, he kept going on and on from 200/200 to under 100. I mean, that was pretty ridiculous that despite having all those strong units he couldn't manage to take out 1 expansion where half Qxc's army was sitting. I saw this on Iccup tv. I realize maybe he could have done something else but still, that was a lot of units and it was at top level. That's also a situation where sheth could have gotten a billion corrupters and broodlords and fought instead of getting a metric shit ton of ultralisks, which are slow and melt to tank fire. Not to mention the fact that he didn't get any lings at all, which I think could have gotten at least a few hits off, not really doing a lot of damage, but at least some instead of just a ton of slow moving ultralisks that just die. Also, that game looked a lot like sheth had given up and was just being annoyed and showing how shitty ultralisks were. I've seen a game where people get Corruptor Broodlords and still get raped. HSM from 10 ravens = 20 HSM = 2000 AOE damage = dead Corruptor Broodlords easily. Not to mention the Terran is turret whoring and has mass vikings...
And why would he get Corruptors/Broodlords vs a bunch of Ravens with seeking missile and thor+ vikings tell me ? There's no dark swarm in Sc2 and that's a LOT in a TvZ.. ofc in SC BW the same army composition wouldn't win but it would at least make more dmg cause of the tanks AI.. plus no freaking high lvl Zerg player would go with this army without defilers.. your reasonning is stupid i must admit.. It's not weither or not zerg must use their brain more.. it's imbalanced that's all
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Well why tanks are so extremly good in SC2 is caused by 2 factors, these being the "smart" fire of the tanks where they will not all fire at a single unit (no overkilling) and the way units clump and move more like a ball in SC2.
P doesn't clump the way Z does and so should not take as much damage from tanks even if the damage is quite substanical.
Now P from my understanding has a big toolkit on how to deal with mech some more viable than others.
Immortals, illusion, Mothership recall / cloak (may not be viable at all) are some of them.
From the Z point of view we have baneling or ultra/ling drops and the nydus (which might I add can be taken out by the mineral line before it pops if noticed early =/ ) and ofc broodlords but we are close to never going to be allowed to tech there much like the mothership and even if we are we have to get a ton of hydras (which get demolished by tanks) to protect them from the amount if vikings T can mass produce.
At this stage of a TvZ game it's all about the range of the units T has the tank range of 13 and the viking range of 9 where as zerg has the BL range of 9 and hte hydra range of 6 (5+1)
This means that in order for the BLs to do shoot the tanks they need to be 9 range away from them and at which time the vikings can shoot back by staying just above the mech army.
Now zerg has 3 options at this time, either you
1.pull back your broodlords or risk loosing them
2. you move your hydras forward to deal with the vikings and take heavy seige damage.
3. Moving BLs back and then hydras forward a little bit to try and get a viking or 2 this usually just result in hydras getting shot at by tanks or BLs tanking heavy damage.
This is the most "standard" way Z gets locked into.
Now for P it's not so much about range as how much mineral / gas you can throw into breaking the seige and how quickly you can get those units out. P has a way of brute forcing a seige rather than fighting a range war like Z does.
Gotta run to work now, might finish this up when I get back home.
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On June 03 2010 13:47 frogmelter wrote:
I've seen a game where people get Corruptor Broodlords and still get raped. HSM from 10 ravens = 20 HSM = 2000 AOE damage = dead Corruptor Broodlords easily. Not to mention the Terran is turret whoring and has mass vikings...
Just how big is this hypothetical Terran army exactly?
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I watched 2-3 games today were zerg got broodlords agains terran mech and then got raped by vikings after having pushed back the terran army a bit. gg
The only way zerg can win such a confrontation is with mass air while still managing to hold off the terran push before that. Good luck with that. Once you get over something like 150 food, especially on a small map, there is very little you can do.
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On June 03 2010 18:12 Umpteen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 13:47 frogmelter wrote:
I've seen a game where people get Corruptor Broodlords and still get raped. HSM from 10 ravens = 20 HSM = 2000 AOE damage = dead Corruptor Broodlords easily. Not to mention the Terran is turret whoring and has mass vikings... Just how big is this hypothetical Terran army exactly?
Also seeker missiles cost 125 and Ravens have 200 energy
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I don't have any experience in SC1, but I think many people look at this the wrong way.
I do play terran, but that was just by random when I installed the beta, I don't really care what race is the strongest, as I feel the game is quite balanced already, and it is up the player to win.
Anyways, for wc3 players, I see terran as night elf, and zerg as human.
Can 2 base human lose to 1 base elf? Of course, does that make it imbalanced? No, because of human's incredible ease of expansion.
Can 3 base zerg lose to 2 base terran? Sure, does that make it imbalanced? No, because of zerg's incredible ease of expansion.
Are terran units 1 for 1 better than zerg units? Yes. But zerg has a much easier time getting a large economy than terran. If you let a ZvT go to a 6 base vs 6 base, you deserve to lose, imo.
A great zerg player can often deny the terran from taking a 2nd or 3rd expansion, while getting 2,3, or 4 expansion himself.
Starvation baby.
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On June 03 2010 18:24 nihlon wrote:
I watched 2-3 games today were zerg got broodlords agains terran mech and then got raped by vikings after having pushed back the terran army a bit. gg
Well, that's good info  Did they dive in with mass BLs, or did they push in with a small number of BLs initially, with a big corruptor force for defence?
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On June 02 2010 20:22 slowmanrunning wrote:
Many maps lacked naturals, which they honestly should have thought would be anti zerg considering their hatcheries are cheaper than nexus/cc.
I seriously hate this statement anytime I hear this. How significant is the difference of 300(for hatch)+50(for drone)+(mining time in the length of a new drone) and 400 for CC?
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EPT
