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aznhockeyboy16
United States558 Posts
lol. who used spawn broodling to counter tanks successfully? anyways... if all you zergs are just trying to whine until you get dark swarm back it's not going to work, until at least heart of the swarm comes out. P: but seriously, I'm not saying everything is perfectly balanced, but there's too much complaining... it's beta, you've been playing with the new patch for like 2-3 days... something will be figured out... or already has been, since sen is apparently a beast at zvt... | ||
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splcer
United States166 Posts
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Talic_Zealot
688 Posts
P.S. Actually in my opinion patches should happen from now on allot less frequently.. more like one on 2-3 months. Now that the big obvious flaws are out of the way they should not be too quick to "fix" things that may actually not be actual problems. | ||
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guitarizt
United States1492 Posts
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splcer
United States166 Posts
On June 05 2010 19:37 Cashout wrote: looks like hating terran is a new trend , im being accused of using imba race in like half of my games (yes even after patch 15 with all the huge nerfs) even when opponents played horrible mined less, had smaller army they still think they should win LOL terran got buff after buff while zerg and toss got nurf after nurf and now you get a 10 dmg decrease in your tanks (which in tvz doesnt really effect anything) and you think that is huge? LOL and obviously if they have a smaller army they will lose but when tanks will destroy all of your ground units with zerg killing like 3 tanks then yes its almost safe to say that its imba and i play random | ||
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guitarizt
United States1492 Posts
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Snowfield
1289 Posts
On June 05 2010 21:27 splcer wrote: terran got buff after buff while zerg and toss got nurf after nurf and now you get a 10 dmg decrease in your tanks (which in tvz doesnt really effect anything) 10 damage doesnt affect anything? ok :S But yeah, infestors just hard counters mech very hard, when you have roaches to tank damage, infestors can just run in and capture everything, i think terran has to go ghosts with their mech or marauder / medevacs to kil stuff and hope the enemy doesnt get banelings But pure mech is suecide vs a good zerg player, just because infestors can turn the entire battle around very fast, and roaches can tank/deal a ton of damage | ||
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brain_
United States812 Posts
It really doesn't. Now you just need 16.7% more tanks before you can instagib any land army... So 10 -> 12. Wooo. The dynamic of the matchup doesn't change at all. | ||
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Nimeron
10 Posts
On June 05 2010 21:48 brain_ wrote: It really doesn't. Now you just need 16.7% more tanks before you can instagib any land army... So 10 -> 12. Wooo. The dynamic of the matchup doesn't change at all. Agreed. And I think the word dynamic is key here, instead of the damage. Damage was nerfed, but the dynamic remains the same. Infestors counter mech? I would love to see that, as the neural parasite has range 9 and the siege tank has range 13. Also, anything that might tank damage for the infestor to get closer is instagibbed (and that includes Ultralisks as well). TLO has said that he has found a reliable way to defeat tank as Zerg and I would love to see it (especially against a player like QXC who plays a defensive mech style). Currrently, the only strategy that sounds plausible to me is to dominate air with corrupters (kill vikings and ravens) and then transition half of that force into broodlords. But the problem I see with the above strategy is that the terran player will simply land the vikings to nullify the damage of the corruptors... Or he unsieges the tanks which should nullify the broodlings (theory crafting here, but I don't think broodlings would do a lot when there are also a few hellions involved). Ah well, waiting for a Sen vs. Tmech and TLO vs Tmech  | ||
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Snowfield
1289 Posts
We'll see in the comming days, but i really think zerg play is going to change to counter terran mech more heavily I might be wrong, but we'll see | ||
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Nimeron
10 Posts
On June 05 2010 22:21 Snowfield wrote: I don't think you have played against it enough to comment if you say that, roaches have alot of HP. We'll see in the comming days, but i really think zerg play is going to change to counter terran mech more heavily I might be wrong, but we'll see Yes I hope so. Although I don't think the matchup is "fair", I think it's the most interesting matchup currently. Now watching Haypro vs. Maka, I just wish that Maka drops his marines play and goes full mech. Edit: Not that I would tell Maka how to play. Awesome second game | ||
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goneim
China201 Posts
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Philosophy
186 Posts
On June 05 2010 21:48 brain_ wrote: It really doesn't. Now you just need 16.7% more tanks before you can instagib any land army... So 10 -> 12. Wooo. The dynamic of the matchup doesn't change at all. 10 are still enough. Hydras needed 2 hits to die before, now they still die in 2 hits. Roaches died in 3 hits, now they still die in 3 hits. Lings died in 1 hit, nothing changed. The tank damage nerf didn't really change much in ZvT. | ||
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Snowfield
1289 Posts
On June 05 2010 23:20 Philosophy wrote: 10 are still enough. Hydras needed 2 hits to die before, now they still die in 2 hits. Roaches died in 3 hits, now they still die in 3 hits. Lings died in 1 hit, nothing changed. The tank damage nerf didn't really change much in ZvT. You forget about splash damage though, while it doenst affect direct hit (in hits to kill (vs zerg only)), it affects the splash to other units | ||
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QuixoticO
Netherlands810 Posts
On June 05 2010 23:25 Snowfield wrote: You forget about splash damage though, while it doenst affect direct hit (in hits to kill (vs zerg only)), it affects the splash to other units Like Tanks didn't kill Zerg units fast enough already, it's ridiculous how fast your army dies against well placed tanks. Not only do you have to deal with their MMM ball you can't even reach their tanks. If you do reach them with burrowed roaches you don't even have enough to kill the tanks while the MMM ball rips everything a new one. Or am I the only one that feels they should have won certain battles as zerg but get raped by tanks. | ||
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Philosophy
186 Posts
On June 05 2010 23:25 Snowfield wrote: You forget about splash damage though, while it doenst affect direct hit (in hits to kill (vs zerg only)), it affects the splash to other units Mid range splash: before: 30 dmg, now: 25 dmg Long range splash: before: 15 dmg, now: 12,5 dmg That's not really noticable, it only means that your army dies 5 seconds later. I don't think the siege tank dmg output should be nerfed more, Zerg just needs a good way to deal with it. Either give them some kind of ability (Dark Swarm that only works on 1 unit?) or make some maps that don't have 10000 abusive siege tank spots. | ||
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
On June 06 2010 02:09 Philosophy wrote: Mid range splash: before: 30 dmg, now: 25 dmg Long range splash: before: 15 dmg, now: 12,5 dmg That's not really noticable, it only means that your army dies 5 seconds later. I don't think the siege tank dmg output should be nerfed more, Zerg just needs a good way to deal with it. Either give them some kind of ability (Dark Swarm that only works on 1 unit?) or make some maps that don't have 10000 abusive siege tank spots. Think of it this way: it used to take 3 mid range splash hits to kill a hydra, now it takes 4. Being able to survive an extra volley of tank hits is pretty significant, no? Obviously tanks are still brutal against hydras, but it's a significant nerf. | ||
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Deathfate
Spain555 Posts
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MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
On June 05 2010 23:08 goneim wrote: Watch Day[9] Daily #130 So... the solution for Zerg players is play Protoss so we can win 1 out of 10 matches? | ||
GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
well...lurkers slow the push, and you kind of need them if you can't figure out if they're going mech, valkonic, or a bio switch. Spawn broodling was used both at blizzcon 2009 by zero, as well as in effort's recent game against flash. Dark swarm is a good tool to have regardless. So, he's not...wrong, exactly... | ||
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