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Overreaction to roach nerf? And abuse nydus! - Page 4

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peffi
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany44 Posts
May 19 2010 17:47 GMT
#61
to be honest. in your opinion im overreacting. i think thats not nice to say. i was really worried about mechanics. because when you look at the roles of the races now you see: terran can mass very hard and zerg uses big, expensive units. terran has good abilitys to macro up and harass, while zerg should better play defensive, to not be outmicroed (talking about reaperharass, hellionharass, bansheeharass). i think toss is the real race, which still uses its style from broodwar. everything else changed dramatically. i used today the nydus, also mass roaches, mass hydras and ling/baneling combo. some tactics failed, some didnt. i still won with the roachnerf very costeffective. the enemy couldnt do anything. my baneling, ling combo failed hard, due to wall-in toss (why i wanted to use banelings) with fast voidrays. there are some things, that really should have been changed and the not massing mechanics from the roach really dont fit into zerg-playstyle, you must admit
shiftY803
Profile Joined April 2010
200 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-19 17:57:28
May 19 2010 17:48 GMT
#62
This thread is awesome. Avilo is in my plat league and used to be #1, so I definitely respect his terran skills. Our league is very strong compared to most, so that is saying something.

However, have you guys seen the recent Day[9] cast about TLO's build versus zerg? It is just one example of high-level play where the zerg player gets rolled by a primarily mech-based build.

I honestly agree with Blizzard's thinking in a way, despite also thinking that the patch was way too much of a nerf. Assuming high level TvZ is heavily unbalanced in T's favor now, they will presumably reflect on that information and react accordingly next time. You don't learn how to fix the game unless you try something at any rate. Two-supply roach was just the first thing they decided to test.
live without appeal. ~ camus
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
May 19 2010 17:49 GMT
#63
In addition to the larvae inject, the other problem is that there isn't any decision that goes along with it (the same thing that iirc nony was saying, as well as archerofaiur). Larvae inject should be capped, but if there was an option for z's to do something else, they might not just store up larvae.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
zealing
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada806 Posts
May 19 2010 17:51 GMT
#64
tbh 2 supply means very little to me, i use roaches as a deffence to tech up to hydras and then have like 5-12 roaches as a small little wall for my hydras.

besides, ppl who just mass roaches are nubs.
Think you got lag? It took Jesus 3 days to respawn.
Gretorp
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States586 Posts
May 19 2010 17:53 GMT
#65
On May 20 2010 02:02 -orb- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2010 01:57 Gretorp wrote:
I think roaches will get a buff. I'm OK with them have 2 supply, but at least put their regen back to what they use to be or add the armor back on . I think theoretically the regen would be much better, and they should evolve in either lair or hive tech like before so they can scale with end game toss and terran(tanks specifically)


But Gretorp, yet again this doesn't fit with the zerg theme of massing weak units to have a giant swarm.

I guess this is mildly off-topic but it seems to me that the entire theory behind the roach (essentially being a tank unit) doesn't fit with anything in brood war's zerg at all other than the ultralisk which we still have in sc2...

IMO the problem with zerg at the moment (and part of the reason they nerfed the roach's food) is the larvae injection at 200/200 supply where zergs get themselves 11 or 15 larvae at each hatchery, suicide their army and immediately have 200/200 supply again in one production cycle. If they fixed this somehow and then concentrated on individual unit balance I feel like we'd have a much better situation.

yeah you're right about the characteristics of z, i completely forgot about their theme. This is so tough.

THey can't take out larva inject b/c it will change dynamics too much of Z. Blizzard put so much time into larva mechanics, to got without them would be forsaking tons of work they've done. I don't think the larva inject is a huge problem. It needs to be altered a bit, but I do agree that zerg end game is quite hard to transition to.
I am Unheard Change
RifleCow
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada637 Posts
May 19 2010 17:54 GMT
#66
If anything it is simply maps to blame. In SC1 playing against mech was the same deal, except there was no larvae mechanic to save your ass when your hydras and mutas were taken out by tank + goliath. It is the maps, terran mech arrive at your front door in no time; thereby, reducing the number one problem with mech play - mobility.

Additionally, because of the doodads in the environment, flanking has become nearly non existant and instead all we have is a series of chokes. Vs mech will be alot easier to play with distances are long and flanks are a viable option.

Hence, I'm interested in how blizzard will include user generated maps in their ladder mappool and not have it turn into a imbalanced joke like WC3.
hohoho
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
May 19 2010 17:54 GMT
#67
Zerg 200/200 is supposed to be extremely strong but difficult to get. Zerg is supposed to have many relatively costy units that have low hp and supply usage for their cost(For instance, SCBW Hydralisk). Zerg's supposed to be the strongest race 200/200. SC2 just ruins the entire concept.

League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
May 19 2010 17:59 GMT
#68
Yes, you are all overreacting. Blog it.
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