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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On March 22 2010 23:52 SirKibbleX wrote: Actually, you could afford to learn some American History. I love it when anyone uses this in an argument. It's becoming the staple in so many discussions on TL, political or otherwise. Person A: I hate Obama, he's ruining the economy. Person B: You Sir require more American History! American History, solving all the worlds arguments since 1776. | ||
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SirKibbleX
United States479 Posts
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17851 Posts
The problem with majority (masses) rule is that most of the society are just ordinary people who rarely look past their own concerns and are unable to grasp the big picture of things for the most part. | ||
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Aim Here
Scotland672 Posts
I feel old. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
Rich people and corporations don't 'SECRETLY' control the world, they indirectly 'control the world' by making decisions that affect us all. The OP tends to personalize everything... In the topic of: 'It's the idea that one can use one's own mind to invalidate itself.' I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but to be perfectly honest, the argument seems weak to me. You can't really compare talking to ONE PERSON with talking to a bunch of dogs who don't know what's good for them. Then you go on to say there's only a minority that's irrational, which is ridiculous.... I don't really have anything to add. You sound like (significantly) more libertarian version of me, which is basically what happens when you don't understand the basics of the human mind. Hell, you even say something insane about how doctors need a license or something. When someone's going to shove chemicals in my body, I expect them to be qualified. I don't want a witch doctor stuffing me with dangerous or useless crap - if there's a quality standard for them, then I'm relatively safer. Long story short, the OP is a well written piece of pseudo intellectual garbage which, if it were to convince many people, would certainly worsen the world we live in. Certainly it leans toward hardcore libertarianism or probably anarchy, which sounds awesome and would be awesome if we were able to handle it.... But it can't happen for very obvious reasons. Conclusion: 1- Having the short stick sucks and you're bound to hate it. 2- It can get better but it'll never get awesome, politically. You get to keep you 50 inches 1080p TV. People will always hate the government but whatever 'democracy' we have is the best the humankind has to offer so far. It's easy to rant about it - it truly sucks. What's harder is to offer ways to fix it - something everyone continuously fails to do. What would be the first step? Everyone can 'choose to be a doctor' overnight? Crush the FDA and abolish taxes or dramatically lower them despite the fact that the only reason why you're successful in life is because of the infrastructure (paid for through taxes) which gives you an opportunity to live a pretty wealthy life unless you were to be an extremely clever businessman in a third world country which has low taxes? I'm sure there could be good suggestions... But I think it's harder to come up with a completely different system that would be better... | ||
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Reason
United Kingdom2770 Posts
Winston Churchill | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
On March 23 2010 00:24 Reason wrote: The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter. Winston Churchill Think about how dumb the average person is. Half of them are dumber than that. And they are all eligible to vote. | ||
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bludragen88
United States527 Posts
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
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Asjo
Denmark664 Posts
Now, I'm an anarchist myself, so basically I believe that people should do what they want, but I can definately see the benefits of a system that takes care of people. It also helps to promote the norm in society that everyone is in it together, and thereby shows that it's not everyone for himself. Even though people care about things and could engage in different issues, they rarely get the chance to, which is why we have the system to pick up on these things. The way a society is built often helps shape the social norms, and a society where the system cares about the interests of the individual (health, services, etc.) and meddles with people seems to emphasise a care for the people much more than one where people are left on their separate paths to shape their separate realities. Therefore, I think it confuses me a bit to talk about the elites ruling over the masses, so much that my post might be beside the point. "The elites", if we say that these are the experts, politicians and other beaurocrats, only rule on intellection matters, where they are the only ones directly involved, whereas "the masses" rule on value-based matters in countries with representative democracies (maybe less so in the states, where you only have two main political parties). After reading a few comments from the thread, I also see an alternative example, where the country is deregulated, and we have a different elite. There the elite are rather those with money and influence. Ability to gain power becomes a main characteristic, not the ability to effectively serve public interest. Because the sphere if interest is a bit different here, there is a greater chance for the elite to rule autonomously, although this will depend on various factors. Another aspect to this is the win-win-win mentality. The greater regulation in society is a result of a greater cooperation among everyone in it to make a better place in general. If everyone has the interests of each other at heart, anything we do will not only benefit ourselves and other parties involved, but will most likely also have an indirect benefit for others because we are all working with the same common goal: the mutual benefit of everyone. You might call it a social contract, as Jibba pointed out. | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On March 23 2010 00:52 bludragen88 wrote: Well clearly the brutes shouldn't be in charge... stupid Prophet of Truth always gunking things up. You need to read your covenant history. When the elites were in power they almost bankrupted the covenant with their Grunt-centered social programs. Sure the Prophets created a defict in resent years but it was nessisary to preemptively attack human colonies that were breeding grounds for terrorists like Master Chief. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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