Alright man, remember when you first played starcraft? I remember being traumatized because all my marines were dying in horrible ways, I remember fearing the zerg, and I remember how freaking epic the protoss mission was because you were in charge of saving a dying civilization.
This was before 8 gate pumps and using zealots to clear mines. Dude, I was more concerned with finishing the mission without my peeps dying. I tried to minimize casualties.
Would someone new to starcraft 2 experience this? If you compare Starcraft 2 to a lot of recent PC games, like Bioshock, Dead Space, etc.. -- you can tell that the art or the atmosphere is not even comparable. Basically, there is no atmosphere in Starcraft 2, and this is mostly because Blizzard is basically didn't really make Starcraft 2 as much as World of Starcraft. Starcraft 2 is not a single player game anymore. Compare this to, say, Homeworld, which has quite a lot of similarities, thematically, to Starcraft, and which IS a single player RTS game. Basically, they've basically said, screw art, we're just going to make it "epic", and jam as much random bad-assery as we can, stuff that, you know, people who've already played Starcraft will think is awesome.
Of course, I'm aware that we haven't seen the single player campaign yet... But really, you don't really need to. So much of the story, or the theme, is based on design. So it's predictable how sequels generally tend to be a lot more watered down in character, basically it copies the form but not the essence of the original. The original starcraft drew a lot from Aliens, after all, it's called "Star"-craft, it was about dying a million miles from home, and no one being able to hear you scream in space. And maybe there was a kind of loneliness, last of our kind feel about the whole Protoss thing. Anyways, it was freaking epic, in a good way.
So, I seriously hope that someone in the community churns out a more thematically coherent set of pieces for Starcraft 2. I want to see DEATH brought back into starcraft. I want to see vulnerable units. I want to see zealots shivering in the cold, stalkers melting like goons... I'm not even sure. Maybe marines who are less like zombies hopped up on painkillers. Maybe less cartoonish models. Not sure... will have to think of some more. But I want to see, you know, the same literary depth that Starcraft had... and then it will be sweeeeet.
Broodwar really did have an atmosphere going for it, the units and buildings had more or less believable sounds and art, if you stopped looking at the gameplay and thought about the units you could easily start imagining all kinds of stories going on in the background of your epic 1v1. It might just be that we have only the competetive gameplay to keep our attentions. Everyone is just trying to learn the builds and strategies and get good at the game, instead of focusing on what's behind the gameplay. However, as in that other thread with the sound effects and voices on the units being not as good as bw, you could be right the game is simply lacking.
No, the game really was heavily influenced by Aliens and Starship Troopers. You can look at things like the cheat "game over man", a quote from Aliens. The hydralisk looks a lot like the mature aliens. I could go on for a while, there's a lot of direct similarities.
how in the fuck can you compare bioshock and dead space to starcraft?
you cant create "atmosphere" in an RTS because its a freaking RTS, bioshock and dead space have shadows, sound fx, art direction and first person view to create creepy atmospheres. starcraft is a top down digital board game.
EDIT: on another note, art and atmosphere are completely different, your title says horrible art, but your first point is about atmosphere. bioshock had an amazing art deco style that put you in a zombie like 60's underwater environment. starcraft is just 3D, i havent seen any particular "style" from starcraft yet.
Dude the single player isn't even out yet. What you are looking for is in the single player campagins. The beta is for multiplayer and competitive play. Besides they have new units for the single player. The units in multiplayer are not all thats gonna be in the campaign so don't judge it just based on what you see in beta.
How do you know that the single player atmosphere sucks when no one has played it yet? If you are talking about online matches, I don't think that is about the atmosphere as much as the competition. Either way, from what I've seen in replays, I think the atmosphere is preserved for online matches.
I have no doubt in my mind that Blizzard will create an epic storyline that will be remembered by probably every TLer for years to come.
i dont know why youre criticizing the limited multiplayer beta to create some kind of "atmosphere." if you are actually doubting blizzard's abilities, then i suggest you dont buy the game and miss out on the greatest experience of the decade.
I think the atmosphere is great, The desert tile set with protoss looks awesome. Within the limits blizzard had like unit sizes and unit count it looks really movielike to me at least! And I have only seen the hd youtube vids and those arent the real quality yet when you play the game urself. I guess it also takes some time to get used to, it took me some time as well to really aprecciate the old starcraft and warcraft 3 art. Smoking some weed really helps!
Someone must have said this before but... its Beta? There is no single player campaign out YET. ? But im pretty sure this is trolling, tho i must agree that SC is based a LOT off alien movies of the late 90s'. like SStroopers and Aliens 1-whatever. and even Predator. (Cloaking?).
I am a bit confused by the entire post and how it is associated with his complaint about art. I come in expecting some types of rants about the artistic style that blizzard has gone with starcraft or something along those lines... and then I see major complaints made on the story element of the game *boggle*. I really cant figure out if the original poster is trying to say the story based on the game play elements or not...
However... Ultimately game play outweighs any other element when you are dealing with games. Sure you have story, art and a random assortment of things that make a game. If the game play element is not present than the game is not worth a damn.
I would also like to add that most of the death animations look insanely violent in Starcraft 2 (good thing!)... I also don't think I have ever seen a zealot shiver in the cold before...
On February 22 2010 16:41 dextahr wrote: How do you know that the single player atmosphere sucks when no one has played it yet? If you are talking about online matches, I don't think that is about the atmosphere as much as the competition. Either way, from what I've seen in replays, I think the atmosphere is preserved for online matches.
the atmosphere is preserved. we battle with miniature models placed on terran rooftops, with birds chirping and cars honking in the background.
On February 22 2010 17:03 Skaff wrote:[...] I would also like to add that most of the death animations look insanely violent in Starcraft 2 (good thing!)... I also don't think I have ever seen a zealot shiver in the cold before...
i would say that there needs to be realism for something to look violent. in sc2 things just blow up like giant watermelons, regardless of the composition and structure of what it actually is. it looks flashy, not violent. everything needs to be big, american style.
On February 22 2010 17:14 writer22816 wrote: I stopped reading after the first paragraph. Comparing Starcraft 2 to BW about clarity and graphics right now is so stupid.
he compared the atmosphere of it, not the clarity. like in how well the setting and design reflects the universe starcraft takes place in and how well it makes you feel to be part of it, as opposed to just toying with your units and throwing them away.
On February 22 2010 17:05 enzym wrote: i would say that there needs to be realism for something to look violent. in sc2 things just blow up like giant watermelons, regardless of the composition and structure of what it actually is. it looks flashy, not violent. everything needs to be big, american style.
To each there own on visuals. As far as "american style"... well Blizzard is a company based in the states so I guess you can hate on them because of that. One of there main art styles is to push the "exaggerated features" theme. You know... bigger tata's on females, gigantic shoulders on males, arms that look like they can rip your head off... and explosions that are over the top. That IS the style that Blizzard is looking for.
I actually agree with OP I hate this bubbly WOW art crap. BW felt like you were in the midst of a dark gritty comic book. SC2 feels like you're playing WOW the RTS.(only art wise)
On February 22 2010 17:29 DeathSpank wrote: I actually agree with OP I hate this bubbly WOW art crap. BW felt like you were in the midst of a dark gritty comic book. SC2 feels like you're playing WOW the RTS.(only art wise)
How is the art of SC2 in resemblance to WoW whatsoever? @_@
I have no idea what you're talking about, the zerg buildings genuinely creep me out, and protoss looks much more technologically advanced than sc1 toss
terran does look like something from fisher price though
On February 22 2010 17:43 Saturnize wrote: Troll thread?
How is the art of SC2 in resemblance to WoW whatsoever? @_@
Who knows... maybe they are just a die hard fan of sprite graphics. I've played way to much WoW in the past few years and I've not really seen any resemblance.
i agree about the atmosphere in the original starcraft, i thought the zerg were really gross and every time my marines got jumped by burrowed lings i jumped. and tassadar killing the overmind was the most epic thing ever.
i don't think starcraft 2 is going to lose it though, maybe the graphics are a little more war3-ish but it's fine.
Starcraft athmosphere was something very close to what you feel by watching Alien. I remember, the first terran missions the first time I played them, you were basially literally scared (ok, I was young).
I would wait to see the solo campaign, although I think it will be very largely ignored, purely and simply.
On February 22 2010 17:57 Biff The Understudy wrote: I actually agree with OP.
Starcraft athmosphere was something very close to what you feel by watching Alien. I remember, the first terran missions the first time I played them, you were basially literally scared (ok, I was young).
I would wait to see the solo campaign, although I think it will be very largely ignored, purely and simply.
Yeah... I look back on a lot of the games from my youth and they seem to hold a special spot in my heart!
Personally... I am greatly looking forward to the SC2 campaign. From everything I've seen it appears that they are putting a ton of effort into the campaign. I never got heavy into the single player missions for SC1 because a lot of the missions really did not hold my interest. Some missions were fun and some just seemed tedious. I think I ended up going back and finishing the missions years after the game came out and years after my online play .
Do you remember this mission (terran 4, maybe?) when you had to hold à-la-Starship Troopers against huge amount of zergs (in fact they were few zerglings, a couple of hydras and one or two mutas) before being evactuated? That was just amazing.
And later when you didn't know what was in the Crisallide and then you would discover Kerrigan who was just the most awesome unit one could ever imagine.
Then came competitive Starcraft, which is more comparable to chess than to any kind of sci-fiction movie. And i love it too, but it's true the ambiance got lost.
On February 22 2010 17:29 DeathSpank wrote: I actually agree with OP I hate this bubbly WOW art crap. BW felt like you were in the midst of a dark gritty comic book. SC2 feels like you're playing WOW the RTS.(only art wise)
How is the art of SC2 in resemblance to WoW whatsoever? @_@
On February 22 2010 17:43 Saturnize wrote: Troll thread?
On February 22 2010 17:29 DeathSpank wrote: I actually agree with OP I hate this bubbly WOW art crap. BW felt like you were in the midst of a dark gritty comic book. SC2 feels like you're playing WOW the RTS.(only art wise)
How is the art of SC2 in resemblance to WoW whatsoever? @_@
On February 22 2010 17:43 Saturnize wrote: Troll thread?
On February 22 2010 17:29 DeathSpank wrote: I actually agree with OP I hate this bubbly WOW art crap. BW felt like you were in the midst of a dark gritty comic book. SC2 feels like you're playing WOW the RTS.(only art wise)
How is the art of SC2 in resemblance to WoW whatsoever? @_@
It's overly bubbly and cartoonish.
If it bothers you that much, turn on low settings. That cartoon and bubble goes away right quick.
Of course, you guys are right, it's till too early to judge. But I'm fearing the worst, having seen all the speeches that Dustin Browder gave about design. One thing that stuck out was when he compared the space-marine, to an actual astronaut, and he sort of jokingly pointed out the various things that made one of them more bad-ass than the other. And I was like... Awww, fu***. I'd rather control the vulnerable, archaic looking astronaut than the cartoon marine.
But this is what Blizzard is going for, which is fine. They hired a lead designer that was more interested in the community, battle.net, etc., than the more literary elements. In my mind, every game is a one-player role-playing game. But the player role playing, when there is a community, is more about owning noobs and getting sweet loot. Which is why the story is entirely secondary in WoW. The same thing is likely happening in starcraft, it is becoming a purely community game, with the emphasis on E-sports. And the in-game metaphors sort of shift too. Now, it's about how powerful my army is or something, rather than the FEAR OF DEATH.
But -- in the end, this might be a bad decision, especially considering that the people who WATCH (rather than play) E-sports are more interested in the "literary" elements -- they don't care about pwning noobs. It's possible that the success of starcraft as an e-sport may have very little to do with gameplay. There is a feeling, even in the pro-scene, that the protoss players become these lonely heros or something, and the terrans are much more scheming, calculating, and so on. There are these things that cross language barriers. Boxer has said something which seemed ridiculous to me at the time, it was something about how he chose the terrans because they were the "humans", and about how human resourcefulness was infinite.
I completely disagree.. After seeing the awesome power of the new editor from blizzcon coverage i think that the campaign experience will be absolutely immersive and deep. The fact that all three campaigns will be separate is just on top of that.
On February 22 2010 18:55 q335r49 wrote: Of course, you guys are right, it's till too early to judge. But I'm fearing the worst, having seen all the speeches that Dustin Browder gave about design. One thing that stuck out was when he compared the space-marine, to an actual astronaut, and he sort of jokingly pointed out the various things that made one of them more bad-ass than the other. And I was like... Awww, fu***. I'd rather control the vulnerable, archaic looking astronaut than the cartoon marine.
But this is what Blizzard is going for, which is fine. They hired a lead designer that was more interested in the community, battle.net, etc., than the more literary elements. In my mind, every game is a one-player role-playing game. But the player role playing, when there is a community, is more about owning noobs and getting sweet loot. Which is why the story is entirely secondary in WoW. The same thing is likely happening in starcraft, it is becoming a purely community game, with the emphasis on E-sports. And the in-game metaphors sort of shift too. Now, it's about how powerful my army is or something, rather than the FEAR OF DEATH.
But -- in the end, this might be a bad decision, especially considering that the people who WATCH (rather than play) E-sports are more interested in the "literary" elements -- they don't care about pwning noobs. It's possible that the success of starcraft as an e-sport may have very little to do with gameplay. There is a feeling, even in the pro-scene, that the protoss players become these lonely heros or something, and the terrans are much more scheming, calculating, and so on. There are these things that cross language barriers. Boxer has said something which seemed ridiculous to me at the time, it was something about how he chose the terrans because they were the "humans", and about how human resourcefulness was infinite.
look through the answers in this thread. i think blizzard is going to be just fine, and starcraft 2 with it. the number of people interested in that kind of thing is low, and getting lower. new players like shiny things. very few new games put the same effort into generating an atmosphere as older ones had to do, because they dont need to anymore. with less developed graphics you needed to draw the player in otherwise. there is much greater potential now and you cant even imagine how it would be like if every game company would utilize every last percentile of it. but it is not needed anymore, and the amount of time consumed by producing so much detail also is too large to be considered worth it by most. we are the minority here.
On February 22 2010 19:20 Talic_Zealot wrote: I completely disagree.. After seeing the awesome power of the new editor from blizzcon coverage i think that the campaign experience will be absolutely immersive and deep. The fact that all three campaigns will be separate is just on top of that.
he isnt just talking about the campaign/single player. you are associated with your race and the setting of starcraft in multiplayer as well. how can he judge SP when it hasnt even come out yet.
Thats not atmosphere OP thats nostalgia, yes the campaigns were always epic to me, as I'm sure the SC2 campaigns will be.
Personally I love the feel of most of the units, I could nitpick sound and criticize girly zealot walk animation but it IS beta, and all of that is subject to change.
Sometimes when I see zerglings swarm around enemies I almost shudder because I DO NOT like insects and zerglings capture the wiggly, opportunistic, cohesive movement of a "one mind" race.
And I don't think you have Beta OP, if you do that is depressing.
On February 22 2010 17:14 writer22816 wrote: I stopped reading after the first paragraph. Comparing Starcraft 2 to BW about clarity and graphics right now is so stupid.
he compared the atmosphere of it, not the clarity. like in how well the setting and design reflects the universe starcraft takes place in and how well it makes you feel to be part of it, as opposed to just toying with your units and throwing them away.
Still proves my point. It's obvious that OP is too narrow-minded about change.
On February 22 2010 18:55 q335r49 wrote: Of course, you guys are right, it's till too early to judge. But I'm fearing the worst, having seen all the speeches that Dustin Browder gave about design. One thing that stuck out was when he compared the space-marine, to an actual astronaut, and he sort of jokingly pointed out the various things that made one of them more bad-ass than the other. And I was like... Awww, fu***. I'd rather control the vulnerable, archaic looking astronaut than the cartoon marine.
But this is what Blizzard is going for, which is fine. They hired a lead designer that was more interested in the community, battle.net, etc., than the more literary elements. In my mind, every game is a one-player role-playing game. But the player role playing, when there is a community, is more about owning noobs and getting sweet loot. Which is why the story is entirely secondary in WoW. The same thing is likely happening in starcraft, it is becoming a purely community game, with the emphasis on E-sports. And the in-game metaphors sort of shift too. Now, it's about how powerful my army is or something, rather than the FEAR OF DEATH.
But -- in the end, this might be a bad decision, especially considering that the people who WATCH (rather than play) E-sports are more interested in the "literary" elements -- they don't care about pwning noobs. It's possible that the success of starcraft as an e-sport may have very little to do with gameplay. There is a feeling, even in the pro-scene, that the protoss players become these lonely heros or something, and the terrans are much more scheming, calculating, and so on. There are these things that cross language barriers. Boxer has said something which seemed ridiculous to me at the time, it was something about how he chose the terrans because they were the "humans", and about how human resourcefulness was infinite.
You are completely mis-informed, sc was never than big on "literary aspects" infact the story could be written by a gradeschool student. However we WERE gradeschool students when we discovered SC (mostly). I myself prefer literature and plot to competetive play and I am absolutely unconcerned.
Critisizing a game for having a good competetive play is retarded. All of your statements and opinions are based of of pure air.
Seriously PLEASE tell me how the plot and "atmosphere" is "secondary" to the campaign team...so stupid..Obviously the campaign team does everything it can to make the campaign good (which I guarantee it will be, and far more "atmospheric" than looking at squares with badly animated portraits talking) while the balance team does everything it can to make the multiplayer good.
es obvoiously trolling. I don't understand why so many people are whining about graphics and sounds and everything, its still CLOSED BETA ffs
Yeah, why are people wining about the sound and graphics. I certainly shouldn't form any opinions about the hours and hours of starcraft two videos, presentations, talks, and websites that I've seen.
sc was never than big on "literary aspects" infact the story could be written by a gradeschool student.
Yeah, you couldn't write anything close to the intelligence of Brood War. Great job trashing Brood War, noob, which happens to be the game this website is dedicated to.
If you add "atmosphere" in the sense you're speaking of, you're going to lose a lot of the visual clarity people are bitching about as it is in other threads.
That said, I do remember having the same feelings you did about SC and BW way back when. I still don't really get what you mean, though. The unit animations are all great from what I've seen, and Blizz, often to the dismay of those of us here at TL, have stuck to the and created more interesting lore in designing this game...
On February 22 2010 17:57 Biff The Understudy wrote: I actually agree with OP.
Starcraft athmosphere was something very close to what you feel by watching Alien. I remember, the first terran missions the first time I played them, you were basially literally scared (ok, I was young).
I would wait to see the solo campaign, although I think it will be very largely ignored, purely and simply.
The key though, is that you were young. I took was young when I first played SC, but then I was also young when I played other games that really drew me into their atmosphere, such as Resident Evil 1. As you grow older, you will never get the same effect from these things anymore. It's the same thing about children books, etc. The mind is much more impressionable at that time.
On February 22 2010 19:33 streamofhonour wrote: Hes obvoiously trolling. I don't understand why so many people are whining about graphics and sounds and everything, its still CLOSED BETA ffs
and you think they are going to change their approach to game design because of that, after it has been in place ever since the release of wc3?
i think either blizzard has changed a lot since sc or some of us were under a pretty ugly misconception and didnt want it to be true, at least for sc2.
there also isnt much to discuss, as it comes down to nothing more than personal preference. for us its sad to lose some of these things, for most other people it doesnt matter.
sc2 still looks like a lot of fun and im totally pumped to get my hands on a key and play it. but between it and earth 2140 (only played a testversion once, but i loved how it felt; its something like a benchmark for rts atmosphere for me) lie worlds when it comes to being able to "feel" with your units and be engulved by the scenario the action is set in.
EPT
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