I just want to thank GTR for providing the VLC stream. As a macintosh user, this is the only way for me to watch the GOM streams conveniently without using VMware. Thanks a lot!
while starcraft is never usually a sexual thing for me, getting to watch sKyHigh's tvp, the Iris's tvp, and Reach versus Flash all in one night has me at the monitor lotion and tissue box ready.
Index > sKyHigh (Sick of sKyHigh fanboyism, it is starting to be just like Bisu fanboyism) MVP > Shine (Shine has been producing good results lately, but I remember that interview EffOrt from GG.net made with MVP so i want him to win) Stats < Berserker (Stats isnt that bad, but i dunno i wanna see Iris goin deeper) Reach > Flash (Reach didnt play in PL for 2-3 weeks just to prepare for this match so i hope he Really wins it, even the Last time they met in pl Reach gave a tough battle to Flash)
On May 17 2009 17:32 exkgb wrote: I just want to thank GTR for providing the VLC stream. As a macintosh user, this is the only way for me to watch the GOM streams conveniently without using VMware. Thanks a lot!
I don't think he's personally providing the streams (I'm not sure who is, though...), but he did tell us what they were and that's pretty cool, too.
the direct stream link is in the source for the 'live' page. Look for a URL that starts with avis://, take the whole address, and replace avis:// with http://
On May 17 2009 18:12 KillForce wrote: the direct stream link is in the source for the 'live' page. Look for a URL that starts with avis://, take the whole address, and replace avis:// with http://
Well i missed 80% of that game, but it was still awesome! Also does anyone know why GOM streams are so weird, why is everyone always at different times by a huge margin?
On May 17 2009 17:12 Tadzio wrote: If your stream is behind other's, use the hotkey "c" to speed up your GOMplayer and when you've caught up, press "z" to normalize the playback speed.
On May 17 2009 18:36 NovaTheFeared wrote: That was the worst play from a progamer I've seen in ages.
well, assuming he's not a complete moron, maybe he guessed skyhigh would rely on mines and would not make a turret, because surely he's not making 8 dts after it was scouted? reverse mind game, of sorts, that didn't work out too well and made him look like a dumbass...
but if it had worked people would be like "wow, that was so genius and unexpected"
On May 17 2009 18:36 NovaTheFeared wrote: That was the worst play from a progamer I've seen in ages.
well, assuming he's not a complete moron, maybe he guessed skyhigh would rely on mines and would not make a turret, because surely he's not making 8 dts after it was scouted? reverse mind game, of sorts, that didn't work out too well and made him look like a dumbass...
but if it had worked people would be like "wow, that was so genius and unexpected"
He saw the shit up there when he sent his zealots up there. He was just an idiot.
On May 17 2009 18:36 NovaTheFeared wrote: That was the worst play from a progamer I've seen in ages.
well, assuming he's not a complete moron, maybe he guessed skyhigh would rely on mines and would not make a turret, because surely he's not making 8 dts after it was scouted? reverse mind game, of sorts, that didn't work out too well and made him look like a dumbass...
but if it had worked people would be like "wow, that was so genius and unexpected"
Index saw the turrets. It was pure boneheadedness.
On May 17 2009 18:36 NovaTheFeared wrote: That was the worst play from a progamer I've seen in ages.
well, assuming he's not a complete moron, maybe he guessed skyhigh would rely on mines and would not make a turret, because surely he's not making 8 dts after it was scouted? reverse mind game, of sorts, that didn't work out too well and made him look like a dumbass...
but if it had worked people would be like "wow, that was so genius and unexpected"
Index saw the turrets. It was pure boneheadedness.
That's right, he kept making DTs after scouting the bunker, 2 turrets, mines, and vultures on the ramp. What the fuck did he think was going to happen when he threw his mass DTs into that?
On May 17 2009 18:40 prOxi.Beater wrote: This game was awesome! For the first time in my life I feel convinced that I am in fact better at stacraft than a progamer!
On May 17 2009 18:36 NovaTheFeared wrote: That was the worst play from a progamer I've seen in ages.
well, assuming he's not a complete moron, maybe he guessed skyhigh would rely on mines and would not make a turret, because surely he's not making 8 dts after it was scouted? reverse mind game, of sorts, that didn't work out too well and made him look like a dumbass...
but if it had worked people would be like "wow, that was so genius and unexpected"
no the thing is, he saw EVERYTHING when his first dt went in.
Even after the marine died, he moved his zealot and the SCV got inside to see the 3 gateways and the templar archives done. After the marine got in he did shit.
Frits: Index continued with the three gate DT rusk while SkyHigh made bunker/Mines/vulture/tanks at his choke to stop it. after that Index made 6 or so DT's he suicided the DT's up the ramp into SKyhigh's 2 turrets, bunker, turrets,mines and tanks. After that Index surrendered.
On May 17 2009 18:44 sashkata wrote: Ofc the stream works perfectly for the looong comersial (or whatever it is). If the stream starts lagging for the game again I'm done with GOM.
Lag? The VLC link is working perfect as usual for me
On May 17 2009 18:44 Integra wrote: Frits: Index continued with the three gate DT rusk while SkyHigh made bunker/Mines/vulture/tanks at his choke to stop it. after that Index made 6 or so DT's he suicided the DT's up the ramp into SKyhigh's 2 turrets, bunker, turrets,mines and tanks. After that he Surrendered.
No I got that part, just not the part how the marine got in there.
Only one zealot was at the ramp, the marine just waked right by and the zealot was still at the ramp on hold position. The marine had 1 hit from a zealot, but still managed to kill one probe before it died.
Frits: SCV are considered large unit, marine is small, since the SCV didn't fit he simply sent the marine instead. You need two zealots to block of the choke from small units.
Marine: "I'm gonna die I'm gonna die I'm gonna die that's a big scary zealot up there I'm gonna die gotta follow orders wtf I didn't die let's shoot some probes!"
On May 17 2009 18:41 Frits wrote: I was actually tabbed when skyhigh got the marine in there, can anyone summarize what happened there exactly because I have no clue.
Index built pure DTs (and zealots whenever he used up his gas I guess) and gathered a group of 5 DTs and a few zealots.
After scouting Index's build, SkyHigh set up an impeccable wall on his ramp -- a loaded bunker, 2 turrets, a few tanks, 5 vultures and a shitload of mines.
Index scouted the ramp with his zealots, then proceeded to run all of his DTs up the ramp into the mine field.
On May 17 2009 18:50 Integra wrote: Frits: SCV are considered large unit, marine is small, since the SCV didn't fit he simply sent the marine instead. You need two zealots to block of the choke from small units.
SCVs are still small units, they just are "bigger" than marines.
dude i love mvp's play. hes the best turtle that ever existed. he litterally turtles so damn much that i don't think you can turtle more. I really enjoy his play because usually turtling alot is a bad thing but he pulls it off and takes wins. Given this is a TvT its all the better.
On May 17 2009 18:50 Integra wrote: Frits: SCV are considered large unit, marine is small, since the SCV didn't fit he simply sent the marine instead. You need two zealots to block of the choke from small units.
Lol? SCV is a small unit.
EDIT: But Starcraft might need more than 3 unit sizes. Small units are different sizes, Mutalisks are small(wtf?), and hydras can fit through blue storm's hole but vultures can't... you can't figure anything out by using logic, you need to test everything to see how big the units are.
On May 17 2009 18:50 Integra wrote: Frits: SCV are considered large unit, marine is small, since the SCV didn't fit he simply sent the marine instead. You need two zealots to block of the choke from small units.
Lol? SCV is a small unit.
EDIT: But Starcraft might need more than 3 unit sizes. Small units are different sizes, Mutalisks are small(wtf?), and hydras can fit through blue storm's hole but vultures can't... you can't figure anything out by using logic, you need to test everything to see how big the units are.
there's at least 3 types of sizes
the size it takes up on the screen the armor "size" the size it takes in dropships
On May 17 2009 18:50 Integra wrote: Frits: SCV are considered large unit, marine is small, since the SCV didn't fit he simply sent the marine instead. You need two zealots to block of the choke from small units.
Lol? SCV is a small unit.
EDIT: But Starcraft might need more than 3 unit sizes. Small units are different sizes, Mutalisks are small(wtf?), and hydras can fit through blue storm's hole but vultures can't... you can't figure anything out by using logic, you need to test everything to see how big the units are.
Yeah and only ghosts can run between two geysers after the assimilators are destroyed, so they officialy win the smallest unit prize.
Shine almost got steamrolled but got off a good drop and now MVP is losing tanks while doing nothing... game's essentially over if Shine doesn't screw up.
mvp is in such a great position now, getting the initiative with the drops is always so annoying for the other player, you're just running around all the time fighting the other player off, one mistake and you're gone.
Wow I thought shine was waaaay better but maybe not.
On May 17 2009 18:50 Integra wrote: Frits: SCV are considered large unit, marine is small, since the SCV didn't fit he simply sent the marine instead. You need two zealots to block of the choke from small units.
Lol? SCV is a small unit.
EDIT: But Starcraft might need more than 3 unit sizes. Small units are different sizes, Mutalisks are small(wtf?), and hydras can fit through blue storm's hole but vultures can't... you can't figure anything out by using logic, you need to test everything to see how big the units are.
Yeah and only ghosts can run between two geysers after the assimilators are destroyed, so they officialy win the smallest unit prize.
Well, Zerglings are smaller. Ghosts just have been trained to only eat once a month.
Shine is pretty bad at wraith harassing imo, second game he loses a wraith while harassing very early and not stopping the second turret from being build, unnecessary.
On May 17 2009 19:22 theKnife wrote: What happened? I thought Shine had this in the bag considering his peaked ELO, ~60% TvT (best matchup) and MVP's inexperience/TvT stats.
I don't think this is over yet, mvp still has some units at the top which he can send at the top right and he can get some wraiths and secure his natural soon.
I bet someone just chucked the Korean name for Heartbreak Ridge into Bablefish or something and it came up with "A Ridge of Heartbreak". I'm just surprised that Tasteless doesn't know (at least that's what it seems like) that everyone else calls it Heartbreak Ridge.
On May 17 2009 19:40 Goragoth wrote: I bet someone just chucked the Korean name for Heartbreak Ridge into Bablefish or something and it came up with "A Ridge of Heartbreak". I'm just surprised that Tasteless doesn't know (at least that's what it seems like) that everyone else calls it Heartbreak Ridge.
On May 17 2009 19:40 Goragoth wrote: I bet someone just chucked the Korean name for Heartbreak Ridge into Bablefish or something and it came up with "A Ridge of Heartbreak". I'm just surprised that Tasteless doesn't know (at least that's what it seems like) that everyone else calls it Heartbreak Ridge.
He doesn't seem to even know anything about the pro scene outside of GOM. That's why I don't really like how he's a professional caster but doesn't feel like seeing what's happening in other leagues, doesn't know the real map names etc.
I'm pleasantly surprised by a mod following a GOM thread. ^_^ Thank you FakeSteve. Sorry about the quote, I'll try to censor / not quote the next time I complain about spoilers. Unless a mod is around, of course.
On May 17 2009 20:04 Shikyo wrote: I'm pleasantly surprised by a mod following a GOM thread. ^_^ Thank you FakeSteve. Sorry about the quote, I'll try to censor / not quote the next time I complain about spoilers. Unless a mod is around, of course.
*now for 25 minutes of ads*
haha last time was soooooooooooooo bad with the ads but that was only to fix some problems
normally its not that bad, see its already starting again
On May 17 2009 20:04 Shikyo wrote: I'm pleasantly surprised by a mod following a GOM thread. ^_^ Thank you FakeSteve. Sorry about the quote, I'll try to censor / not quote the next time I complain about spoilers. Unless a mod is around, of course.
On May 17 2009 20:04 Shikyo wrote: I'm pleasantly surprised by a mod following a GOM thread. ^_^ Thank you FakeSteve. Sorry about the quote, I'll try to censor / not quote the next time I complain about spoilers. Unless a mod is around, of course.
*now for 25 minutes of ads*
i'm around for nine of ten live report threads
Haha, okay, good I just reeally hate spoiling, especially if I haven't been able to watch the games yet myself.
BTW, Flash vs Reach might be closer than it should, since Flash sometimes gets really greedy and tries to play with minimal defense, whereas Reach is probably the most aggressive badass manly Protoss ever, so Flash might lose stupidly(which I'm hoping for).
This match-up, though. I'll semi-commit suicide if Iris doesn't win.
On May 17 2009 20:04 Shikyo wrote: I'm pleasantly surprised by a mod following a GOM thread. ^_^ Thank you FakeSteve. Sorry about the quote, I'll try to censor / not quote the next time I complain about spoilers. Unless a mod is around, of course.
*now for 25 minutes of ads*
i'm around for nine of ten live report threads
Haha, okay, good I just reeally hate spoiling, especially if I haven't been able to watch the games yet myself.
BTW, Flash vs Reach might be closer than it should, since Flash sometimes gets really greedy and tries to play with minimal defense, whereas Reach is probably the most aggressive badass manly Protoss ever, so Flash might lose stupidly(which I'm hoping for).
This match-up, though. I'll semi-commit suicide if Iris doesn't win.
Stats has played a lot of good PvT games in the brief time we've seen him (both in GOM and I remember a pretty epic game of him versus Mind). This matchup is, in my opinion, the most likely of the three TvPs tonight to be close.
On May 17 2009 20:04 Shikyo wrote: I'm pleasantly surprised by a mod following a GOM thread. ^_^ Thank you FakeSteve. Sorry about the quote, I'll try to censor / not quote the next time I complain about spoilers. Unless a mod is around, of course.
*now for 25 minutes of ads*
i'm around for nine of ten live report threads
Haha, okay, good I just reeally hate spoiling, especially if I haven't been able to watch the games yet myself.
BTW, Flash vs Reach might be closer than it should, since Flash sometimes gets really greedy and tries to play with minimal defense, whereas Reach is probably the most aggressive badass manly Protoss ever, so Flash might lose stupidly(which I'm hoping for).
This match-up, though. I'll semi-commit suicide if Iris doesn't win.
Isn't Flash the most defensive player in SC?
No, he doesn't turtle unnecessarily. In the early game he doesnt build 50 bunkers, he tries to invest minimal amount in defense. It's not by chance that he has to use SCVs to defend in 99% of his games.
On May 17 2009 20:04 Shikyo wrote: I'm pleasantly surprised by a mod following a GOM thread. ^_^ Thank you FakeSteve. Sorry about the quote, I'll try to censor / not quote the next time I complain about spoilers. Unless a mod is around, of course.
*now for 25 minutes of ads*
i'm around for nine of ten live report threads
Haha, okay, good I just reeally hate spoiling, especially if I haven't been able to watch the games yet myself.
BTW, Flash vs Reach might be closer than it should, since Flash sometimes gets really greedy and tries to play with minimal defense, whereas Reach is probably the most aggressive badass manly Protoss ever, so Flash might lose stupidly(which I'm hoping for).
This match-up, though. I'll semi-commit suicide if Iris doesn't win.
I disagree with your point on Flash, he is by far the best defender against protoss I've ever seen. He has NEVER been killed early in a game. His greed is only a risk for him in TvT and TvZ.
On May 17 2009 20:04 Shikyo wrote: I'm pleasantly surprised by a mod following a GOM thread. ^_^ Thank you FakeSteve. Sorry about the quote, I'll try to censor / not quote the next time I complain about spoilers. Unless a mod is around, of course.
*now for 25 minutes of ads*
i'm around for nine of ten live report threads
Haha, okay, good I just reeally hate spoiling, especially if I haven't been able to watch the games yet myself.
BTW, Flash vs Reach might be closer than it should, since Flash sometimes gets really greedy and tries to play with minimal defense, whereas Reach is probably the most aggressive badass manly Protoss ever, so Flash might lose stupidly(which I'm hoping for).
This match-up, though. I'll semi-commit suicide if Iris doesn't win.
Isn't Flash the most defensive player in SC?
The strange paradox with Flash is that his defense is insanely good, as is his adaptation to non-standard situations. However, this gets washed over by his 14CCs in situations where virtually no defense, no matter how good, can save a player from defeat.
I can't remember the last time Flash lost to a Protoss due to poor defense though. Maybe the Horang game in the previous MST but I don't know if you can count losing to a proxy "stupid" (everyone does from time to time).
On May 17 2009 20:04 Shikyo wrote: I'm pleasantly surprised by a mod following a GOM thread. ^_^ Thank you FakeSteve. Sorry about the quote, I'll try to censor / not quote the next time I complain about spoilers. Unless a mod is around, of course.
*now for 25 minutes of ads*
i'm around for nine of ten live report threads
Haha, okay, good I just reeally hate spoiling, especially if I haven't been able to watch the games yet myself.
BTW, Flash vs Reach might be closer than it should, since Flash sometimes gets really greedy and tries to play with minimal defense, whereas Reach is probably the most aggressive badass manly Protoss ever, so Flash might lose stupidly(which I'm hoping for).
This match-up, though. I'll semi-commit suicide if Iris doesn't win.
I disagree with your point on Flash, he is by far the best defender against protoss I've ever seen. He has NEVER been killed early in a game. His greed is only a risk for him in TvT and TvZ.
Never? I can easily name at least Tempest vs Flash off the top of my head.
On May 17 2009 20:04 Shikyo wrote: I'm pleasantly surprised by a mod following a GOM thread. ^_^ Thank you FakeSteve. Sorry about the quote, I'll try to censor / not quote the next time I complain about spoilers. Unless a mod is around, of course.
*now for 25 minutes of ads*
i'm around for nine of ten live report threads
Haha, okay, good I just reeally hate spoiling, especially if I haven't been able to watch the games yet myself.
BTW, Flash vs Reach might be closer than it should, since Flash sometimes gets really greedy and tries to play with minimal defense, whereas Reach is probably the most aggressive badass manly Protoss ever, so Flash might lose stupidly(which I'm hoping for).
This match-up, though. I'll semi-commit suicide if Iris doesn't win.
I disagree with your point on Flash, he is by far the best defender against protoss I've ever seen. He has NEVER been killed early in a game. His greed is only a risk for him in TvT and TvZ.
Yeah that's what's frustrating about Flash - when he doesn't get an autoloss for 14CC-ing, he NEVER loses early in a game. It simply doesn't happen. For instance, stupidly losing an MnM force early in a game like what happened to + Show Spoiler +
On May 17 2009 20:25 Razii wrote: I think I remember him saying "Jaedong likes to penetrate, but does not know when to pull out" and Tasteless chuckled.
I think he was trying to mean 'break through' or 'run-by'.. seriously.. geez >____>
Protoss players should really start recalling into the middle of a terran army more, most of the terran vs protoss battles are won because of positioning. I don't see the point in recalling into a main when it's gonna get you killed for sure.
Yeah it was so damn epic. Proxy gate, bakanic, vulture glitch jump, manstorms, manflanks, mancarriers, mangoons, manreavers, epic manlots.
words of truth! that game made me actually a fan of reach, i simply couldnt believe that someone so manly can make starctaft so entertaining, i couldnt believe it (i thought starcraft was reserved for nerd-looking players AKA FANTASY, but Anytime and Reach proved me otherwise)
Yeah it was so damn epic. Proxy gate, bakanic, vulture glitch jump, manstorms, manflanks, mancarriers, mangoons, manreavers, epic manlots.
words of truth! that game made me actually a fan of reach, i simply couldnt believe that someone so manly can make starctaft so entertaining, i couldnt believe it (i thought starcraft was reserved for nerd-looking players AKA FANTASY, but Anytime and Reach proved me otherwise)
On May 17 2009 21:11 integral wrote: wonder what they're saying
reach: sorry little dongseng reach: today I will show you the power of protoss flash: sorry hyung flash: today I will show you why you should retire
For real? thats awesome:D
Of course not >_______>
It should be
flash: sorry hyung flash: today I will show you why you should retire reach: sorry dongseng reach: today I will show you why you shouldn't have started Starcraft.
On May 17 2009 21:11 integral wrote: wonder what they're saying
reach: sorry little dongseng reach: today I will show you the power of protoss flash: sorry hyung flash: today I will show you why you should retire
For real? thats awesome:D
Of course not >_______>
It should be
flash: sorry hyung flash: today I will show you why you should retire reach: sorry dongseng reach: today I will show you why you shouldn't have started Starcraft.
Anticlimactic enough, the actual conversation went something like this: flash: good luck to you, Reach hyung. Reach: you too, Flash hyung. flash: I respect you a lot Reach: I know. Reach: ... Reach: you're not bad either.
flash seriously always makes turrets in proper timing in ORDER, like closest to enemy base to furthest away just perfectly... case in point this game..
On May 17 2009 21:26 538 wrote: I liked Flash more back when he was cheesing. But too many people criticized him so he picked up this mechanical boring play :-p
Reach is so boring. That was pretty awful but watching Flash is the best tutorial one can have.
And Fantasy's (oovs) TvZ builds are the best in the business. Why would you even question that? His record is bad since his mechanics blow and he makes sloppy decisions sometimes.
On May 17 2009 21:35 Ver wrote: Reach is so boring. That was pretty awful but watching Flash is the best tutorial one can have.
And Fantasy's (oovs) TvZ builds are the best in the business. Why would you even question that? His record is bad since his mechanics blow and he makes sloppy decisions sometimes.
On May 17 2009 21:35 Ver wrote: Reach is so boring. That was pretty awful but watching Flash is the best tutorial one can have.
And Fantasy's (oovs) TvZ builds are the best in the business. Why would you even question that? His record is bad since his mechanics blow and he makes sloppy decisions sometimes.
Mechanics blow -> build not being perfect... But nevermind that. So reach 12nex again. Let's see Flash's turret placement.
Flash is just being imbalanced. Reach didn't play particularly bad or anything, but Flash just played solid with perfect timing and reactions to everything Reach did. GG from Reach
On May 17 2009 21:55 Shikyo wrote: Let's just say that if you in a TvP build the third command center at 40 supply when you're on 1 factory, it's got to backfire sometime.
the problem is: Flash is so good that I'm almost positive only Bisu has ever taken his tvp on in a standard game and won.
On May 17 2009 21:50 SuperArc wrote: How can Flash only have won one OSL?
flash has a history of extremely hard draws
i cant think of any other reason
Schedules and hard slumps after being overexhausted (like right now). Flash is slumping pretty badly but even when slumping he still somehow never loses to c/b players...no idea why.
On May 17 2009 21:55 Shikyo wrote: Let's just say that if you in a TvP build the third command center at 40 supply when you're on 1 factory, it's got to backfire sometime.
the problem is: Flash is so good that I'm almost positive only Bisu has ever taken his tvp on in a standard game and won.
Stork / Jangbi /BeSt ( while he was still good...) have done it too. In fact I think Stork/Jangbi/Much has stronger PvT than Bisu.
On May 17 2009 21:55 Shikyo wrote: Let's just say that if you in a TvP build the third command center at 40 supply when you're on 1 factory, it's got to backfire sometime.
the problem is: Flash is so good that I'm almost positive only Bisu has ever taken his tvp on in a standard game and won.
I'm pretty sure Stork and Jangbi have (not sure about Best). I know for a fact Stork beat him a lot before.
On May 17 2009 21:55 Shikyo wrote: Let's just say that if you in a TvP build the third command center at 40 supply when you're on 1 factory, it's got to backfire sometime.
the problem is: Flash is so good that I'm almost positive only Bisu has ever taken his tvp on in a standard game and won.
Well stork did take 2 games off flash in the GSI, so not only Bisu. Though he did lose the series...
On May 17 2009 21:55 Shikyo wrote: Let's just say that if you in a TvP build the third command center at 40 supply when you're on 1 factory, it's got to backfire sometime.
the problem is: Flash is so good that I'm almost positive only Bisu has ever taken his tvp on in a standard game and won.
Of course, I was saying that in response to people wondering why he ever lost. It's not like the Protoss has to play completely standard, and sometimes he can be broken since he'll have so few units early on.
EDIT: But how come everyone says Flash is slumping hard? He's like 7-3 last 10 not counting this etc. It's not that big of a slump really. Kind of like "Jaedong playing bad and doing nothing" while going 8-2(wtf JWD needs to get out of PR.)
On May 17 2009 21:55 Shikyo wrote: Let's just say that if you in a TvP build the third command center at 40 supply when you're on 1 factory, it's got to backfire sometime.
the problem is: Flash is so good that I'm almost positive only Bisu has ever taken his tvp on in a standard game and won.
Well stork did take 2 games off flash in the GSI, so not only Bisu. Though he did lose the series...
Stork being 9-7 vs Flash says differently. Stork and Jangbi and BIsu are pretty much the only people that can go against Flash toe to toe, although right now with the khan boys slumping and Bisu getting mauled by Fantays like that I dont think even they can touch flash.
I'm a huge Flash fan and he won easily, so there's not much more to ask for. However, before you say that when Flash plays like this, he's invincible, it should be noted that Flash's playstyle really "cliffs" in a sense that Protoss players below a certain level have no chance, not just to win the game, but look like they had ANY chance whatsoever of winning the game. Like, you get the feeling that Flash knows he's a far superior player mechanically than Reach, and therefore has no problem playing his pure turtle style for the safest possible win against a lesser player. I mean, if you can't match Flash's macro and can't kill him early, how can you possibly beat this strat? Honestly, it's a testament to Flash's genius for him to have developed this virtually bulletproof style against lesser players, and it's one of the reasons why Flash never ever ever ever loses to players more than one tier below him. To be perfectly honest, I wonder if Flash even prepared for these games - he's played enough TvP on Medusa to do it in his sleep, and he certainly seemed content to play "I got a ramp, free fast expo, and free 3 base on God's Garden". (EDIT: He didn't even bother to get a Starport until 5 Factories were up, and as far as I can remember nearly every single TvP on this map has involved fairly early Dropships to take advantage of the back expo high ground)
But, when you bring in a top tier Protoss, such as a Stork (see their last PL matchup), Best (OSL), or the king himself Bisu (see GOM, PL) who won't make the small mistakes that put you impossibly behind against the Flash strat, the landscape changes completely.
Imagine the Medusa game with Bisu playing - there's no way Bisu loses that shuttle, and there's no way Bisu thinks he has Stasis when he doesn't (Bisu likely avoids EMP). In addition, Bisu would have had far better macro and probably found a whole in Flash's turret maze (or done some elevator multitasking that only he can pull off). All of a sudden that's a totally different game.
Even though Stork has been terrible lately, I'm still looking forward to Flash vs Stork tomorrow because it's always nice to see an elite Protoss player play against Flash. Below a certain level it's just a steamroll (see Horang, Pure, Reach recently), but above it, games get extremely interesting. I just can't see Flash 3-0ing Bisu, which makes me wonder if Fantasy's style isn't more resilient at the higher levels, and if offense isn't more resilient in elite series play.
One thing's for sure - Flash's TvP is as close as you can get to being invincible in a matchup when played against a lesser players.
On a side note, wtf is up with the brackets? There already was a stx vs stx match (Kal vs by.hero) and if Shuttle wins his game vs zerbong(which he should) there will be two more stx vs stx in the Ro.16 (Kal vs July and Hwasin vs Shuttle). I know there were many STX players, but wtf, there is noone from STX in the right side of the bracket...
On May 17 2009 22:06 darktreb wrote: I'm a huge Flash fan and he won easily, so there's not much more to ask for. However, before you say that when Flash plays like this, he's invincible, it should be noted that Flash's playstyle really "cliffs" in a sense that Protoss players below a certain level have no chance, not just to win the game, but look like they had ANY chance whatsoever of winning the game. Like, you get the feeling that Flash knows he's a far superior player mechanically than Reach, and therefore has no problem playing his pure turtle style for the safest possible win against a lesser player. I mean, if you can't match Flash's macro and can't kill him early, how can you possibly beat this strat? Honestly, it's a testament to Flash's genius for him to have developed this virtually bulletproof style against lesser players, and it's one of the reasons why Flash never ever ever ever loses to players more than one tier below him. To be perfectly honest, I wonder if Flash even prepared for these games - he's played enough TvP on Medusa to do it in his sleep, and he certainly seemed content to play "I got a ramp, free fast expo, and free 3 base on God's Garden".
But, when you bring in a top tier Protoss, such as a Stork (see their last PL matchup), Best (OSL), or the king himself Bisu (see GOM, PL) who won't make the small mistakes that put you impossibly behind against the Flash strat, the landscape changes completely.
Imagine the Medusa game with Bisu playing - there's no way Bisu loses that shuttle, and there's no way Bisu thinks he has Stasis when he doesn't (Bisu likely avoids EMP). In addition, Bisu would have had far better macro and probably found a whole in Flash's turret maze (or done some elevator multitasking that only he can pull off). All of a sudden that's a totally different game.
Even though Stork has been terrible lately, I'm still looking forward to Flash vs Stork tomorrow because it's always nice to see an elite Protoss player play against Flash. Below a certain level it's just a steamroll (see Horang, Pure, Reach recently), but above it, games get extremely interesting. I just can't see Flash 3-0ing Bisu, which makes me wonder if Fantasy's style isn't more resilient at the higher levels, and if offense isn't more resilient in elite series play.
One thing's for sure - Flash's TvP is as close as you can get to being invincible in a matchup when played against a lesser players.
Reach didn't really lose that shuttle, flash somehow caught it.
And no one would have expected a 3-0 against Bisu from fantasy either.
On May 17 2009 22:06 darktreb wrote: I'm a huge Flash fan and he won easily, so there's not much more to ask for. However, before you say that when Flash plays like this, he's invincible, it should be noted that Flash's playstyle really "cliffs" in a sense that Protoss players below a certain level have no chance, not just to win the game, but look like they had ANY chance whatsoever of winning the game. Like, you get the feeling that Flash knows he's a far superior player mechanically than Reach, and therefore has no problem playing his pure turtle style for the safest possible win against a lesser player. I mean, if you can't match Flash's macro and can't kill him early, how can you possibly beat this strat? Honestly, it's a testament to Flash's genius for him to have developed this virtually bulletproof style against lesser players, and it's one of the reasons why Flash never ever ever ever loses to players more than one tier below him. To be perfectly honest, I wonder if Flash even prepared for these games - he's played enough TvP on Medusa to do it in his sleep, and he certainly seemed content to play "I got a ramp, free fast expo, and free 3 base on God's Garden".
But, when you bring in a top tier Protoss, such as a Stork (see their last PL matchup), Best (OSL), or the king himself Bisu (see GOM, PL) who won't make the small mistakes that put you impossibly behind against the Flash strat, the landscape changes completely.
Imagine the Medusa game with Bisu playing - there's no way Bisu loses that shuttle, and there's no way Bisu thinks he has Stasis when he doesn't (Bisu likely avoids EMP). In addition, Bisu would have had far better macro and probably found a whole in Flash's turret maze (or done some elevator multitasking that only he can pull off). All of a sudden that's a totally different game.
Even though Stork has been terrible lately, I'm still looking forward to Flash vs Stork tomorrow because it's always nice to see an elite Protoss player play against Flash. Below a certain level it's just a steamroll (see Horang, Pure, Reach recently), but above it, games get extremely interesting. I just can't see Flash 3-0ing Bisu, which makes me wonder if Fantasy's style isn't more resilient at the higher levels, and if offense isn't more resilient in elite series play.
One thing's for sure - Flash's TvP is as close as you can get to being invincible in a matchup when played against a lesser players.
To me at least, Flash IS slumping in the sense that he's just executing the optimized build he created and that's it. There are 2 Flash's that show up to a game. One that just mindlessly does the build relative to the other Flash, who constantly reads and adapts even in the smallest of ways to his opponent. Flash #1 has near perfect execution in a standard game and steamrolls anyone non-S class. But without the intelligence that Flash #2 has behind the play, not just the build, he can't take on the top players very well. Bisu said it once in an interview that Flash is too stubborn and robotic sometimes and that's very true.
On May 17 2009 22:11 dt4ever wrote: On a side note, wtf is up with the brackets? There already was a stx vs stx match (Kal vs by.hero) and if Shuttle wins his game vs zerbong(which he should) there will be two more stx vs stx in the Ro.16 (Kal vs July and Hwasin vs Shuttle). I know there were many STX players, but wtf, there is noone from STX in the right side of the bracket...
SKT1 had all 3 players on the same side in the OSL.
On May 17 2009 21:50 SuperArc wrote: How can Flash only have won one OSL?
flash has a history of extremely hard draws
i cant think of any other reason
Schedules and hard slumps after being overexhausted (like right now). Flash is slumping pretty badly but even when slumping he still somehow never loses to c/b players...no idea why.
My uneducated impression is that it has to do with his style that he's developed. Flash has played such an enormous number of games at such a young age and in such a short period of time (seriously, it has only been about a year and a half since he was just another face in the crowd ... yet it feels like he's played in a thousand televised games and been around for years) that perhaps he's adapted by developing these ultra-safe styles that are virtually bulletproof against lesser players.
His TvP is the best example of this - a Protoss player that can't multitask well enough to match Flash's macro while still denting his near-perfect defense has absolutely no chance of beating him in a game. If you let Flash turtle his way to his push with minimal damage taken, you basically can't win without somehow outplaying him significantly during the push, which he's also near-perfect at.
While his TvZ seems to be undergoing some changes these days (perhaps in adaptation to the new maps), there was a time earlier this year where he played this mass marine (to the extent that he was delaying Vessels for it and barely even pretending to feign a Sunken break) style that was extremely hard to dent with Mutas and basically allowed him to safely roll Zerg players after a certain time (this even worked against Jaedong twice, and even though Jaedong later won a crucial RH3 game in Winners League, it was a hidden expo that made a ton of difference).
Even his TvT reflects this mentality ironically through his penchant for 14CC (which has subsided, but remember the Lomo and ForGG series' in MSL?). In TvT, if Flash successfully pulls off a 14CC without taking significant damage, it's probably nearly impossible to beat him. He probably realized this at one point and decided his defense was good enough to get him to his 14CC all the time, only this turned out to be untrue as Terrans got much smarter about countering it. It's a real shame because he also seems to have the best overall Dropship play of any Terran in TvT.
On May 17 2009 22:11 dt4ever wrote: On a side note, wtf is up with the brackets? There already was a stx vs stx match (Kal vs by.hero) and if Shuttle wins his game vs zerbong(which he should) there will be two more stx vs stx in the Ro.16 (Kal vs July and Hwasin vs Shuttle). I know there were many STX players, but wtf, there is noone from STX in the right side of the bracket...
SKT1 had all 3 players on the same side in the OSL.
On May 17 2009 22:06 darktreb wrote: I'm a huge Flash fan and he won easily, so there's not much more to ask for. However, before you say that when Flash plays like this, he's invincible, it should be noted that Flash's playstyle really "cliffs" in a sense that Protoss players below a certain level have no chance, not just to win the game, but look like they had ANY chance whatsoever of winning the game. Like, you get the feeling that Flash knows he's a far superior player mechanically than Reach, and therefore has no problem playing his pure turtle style for the safest possible win against a lesser player. I mean, if you can't match Flash's macro and can't kill him early, how can you possibly beat this strat? Honestly, it's a testament to Flash's genius for him to have developed this virtually bulletproof style against lesser players, and it's one of the reasons why Flash never ever ever ever loses to players more than one tier below him. To be perfectly honest, I wonder if Flash even prepared for these games - he's played enough TvP on Medusa to do it in his sleep, and he certainly seemed content to play "I got a ramp, free fast expo, and free 3 base on God's Garden".
But, when you bring in a top tier Protoss, such as a Stork (see their last PL matchup), Best (OSL), or the king himself Bisu (see GOM, PL) who won't make the small mistakes that put you impossibly behind against the Flash strat, the landscape changes completely.
Imagine the Medusa game with Bisu playing - there's no way Bisu loses that shuttle, and there's no way Bisu thinks he has Stasis when he doesn't (Bisu likely avoids EMP). In addition, Bisu would have had far better macro and probably found a whole in Flash's turret maze (or done some elevator multitasking that only he can pull off). All of a sudden that's a totally different game.
Even though Stork has been terrible lately, I'm still looking forward to Flash vs Stork tomorrow because it's always nice to see an elite Protoss player play against Flash. Below a certain level it's just a steamroll (see Horang, Pure, Reach recently), but above it, games get extremely interesting. I just can't see Flash 3-0ing Bisu, which makes me wonder if Fantasy's style isn't more resilient at the higher levels, and if offense isn't more resilient in elite series play.
One thing's for sure - Flash's TvP is as close as you can get to being invincible in a matchup when played against a lesser players.
To me at least, Flash IS slumping in the sense that he's just executing the optimized build he created and that's it. There are 2 Flash's that show up to a game. One that just mindlessly does the build relative to the other Flash, who constantly reads and adapts even in the smallest of ways to his opponent. Flash #1 has near perfect execution in a standard game and steamrolls anyone non-S class. But without the intelligence that Flash #2 has behind the play, not just the build, he can't take on the top players very well. Bisu said it once in an interview that Flash is too stubborn and robotic sometimes and that's very true.
It's almost like a curse that Flash's bulletproof robo-builds are so good that only the very best of the best progamers can beat them, because if nothing else it just encourages his style. Unless Flash is playing Bisu (the ultimate multitask measuring stick) all the time in practice, he's probably barely even getting any valuable feedback on his TvP.
On May 17 2009 22:11 dt4ever wrote: On a side note, wtf is up with the brackets? There already was a stx vs stx match (Kal vs by.hero) and if Shuttle wins his game vs zerbong(which he should) there will be two more stx vs stx in the Ro.16 (Kal vs July and Hwasin vs Shuttle). I know there were many STX players, but wtf, there is noone from STX in the right side of the bracket...
SKT1 had all 3 players on the same side in the OSL.
Did they meet in the Ro.32/16?
Yes in fact it was RO8 (Bisu, Fantasy, and Best, all SKT1 players, along with Luxury were one half of eight man bracket).
On May 17 2009 22:06 darktreb wrote: I'm a huge Flash fan and he won easily, so there's not much more to ask for. However, before you say that when Flash plays like this, he's invincible, it should be noted that Flash's playstyle really "cliffs" in a sense that Protoss players below a certain level have no chance, not just to win the game, but look like they had ANY chance whatsoever of winning the game. Like, you get the feeling that Flash knows he's a far superior player mechanically than Reach, and therefore has no problem playing his pure turtle style for the safest possible win against a lesser player. I mean, if you can't match Flash's macro and can't kill him early, how can you possibly beat this strat? Honestly, it's a testament to Flash's genius for him to have developed this virtually bulletproof style against lesser players, and it's one of the reasons why Flash never ever ever ever loses to players more than one tier below him. To be perfectly honest, I wonder if Flash even prepared for these games - he's played enough TvP on Medusa to do it in his sleep, and he certainly seemed content to play "I got a ramp, free fast expo, and free 3 base on God's Garden".
But, when you bring in a top tier Protoss, such as a Stork (see their last PL matchup), Best (OSL), or the king himself Bisu (see GOM, PL) who won't make the small mistakes that put you impossibly behind against the Flash strat, the landscape changes completely.
Imagine the Medusa game with Bisu playing - there's no way Bisu loses that shuttle, and there's no way Bisu thinks he has Stasis when he doesn't (Bisu likely avoids EMP). In addition, Bisu would have had far better macro and probably found a whole in Flash's turret maze (or done some elevator multitasking that only he can pull off). All of a sudden that's a totally different game.
Even though Stork has been terrible lately, I'm still looking forward to Flash vs Stork tomorrow because it's always nice to see an elite Protoss player play against Flash. Below a certain level it's just a steamroll (see Horang, Pure, Reach recently), but above it, games get extremely interesting. I just can't see Flash 3-0ing Bisu, which makes me wonder if Fantasy's style isn't more resilient at the higher levels, and if offense isn't more resilient in elite series play.
One thing's for sure - Flash's TvP is as close as you can get to being invincible in a matchup when played against a lesser players.
To me at least, Flash IS slumping in the sense that he's just executing the optimized build he created and that's it. There are 2 Flash's that show up to a game. One that just mindlessly does the build relative to the other Flash, who constantly reads and adapts even in the smallest of ways to his opponent. Flash #1 has near perfect execution in a standard game and steamrolls anyone non-S class. But without the intelligence that Flash #2 has behind the play, not just the build, he can't take on the top players very well. Bisu said it once in an interview that Flash is too stubborn and robotic sometimes and that's very true.
It's almost like a curse that Flash's bulletproof robo-builds are so good that only the very best of the best progamers can beat them, because if nothing else it just encourages his style. Unless Flash is playing Bisu (the ultimate multitask measuring stick) all the time in practice, he's probably barely even getting any valuable feedback on his TvP.
Flash needs a change of scenery imo, aka switch teams! =D
His style has evolved to the point of perfection but his overall play has stagnated. JD and Bisu>Flash right now imo. I feel the reason why teams like CJ and SKT are so good throughout the years is because of their deeper lineup. Multiple good players with different styles that push each other to learn and adapt to completely new things. If you haven't noticed, a new mid-game dropship trend has started to show up in TvP. Best examples of this is Fantasy vs. Pure in proleague and Iris vs. Stats today on God's Garden. Looks like: port off 2 base->increase vulture production->extra minerals into 3rd cc->expo behind dropship harass->3base terran vs 3 base toss-> ferry tanks and vultures nonstop to deny toss's 4th + vulture runbys in main. The style in those games are like the next evolution of Flash's tvp. I just don't think KTF has what it takes to continue to develop and stay one step ahead of the metagame like that. It's just Flash. And that makes me sad.
On May 17 2009 22:06 darktreb wrote: I'm a huge Flash fan and he won easily, so there's not much more to ask for. However, before you say that when Flash plays like this, he's invincible, it should be noted that Flash's playstyle really "cliffs" in a sense that Protoss players below a certain level have no chance, not just to win the game, but look like they had ANY chance whatsoever of winning the game. Like, you get the feeling that Flash knows he's a far superior player mechanically than Reach, and therefore has no problem playing his pure turtle style for the safest possible win against a lesser player. I mean, if you can't match Flash's macro and can't kill him early, how can you possibly beat this strat? Honestly, it's a testament to Flash's genius for him to have developed this virtually bulletproof style against lesser players, and it's one of the reasons why Flash never ever ever ever loses to players more than one tier below him. To be perfectly honest, I wonder if Flash even prepared for these games - he's played enough TvP on Medusa to do it in his sleep, and he certainly seemed content to play "I got a ramp, free fast expo, and free 3 base on God's Garden".
But, when you bring in a top tier Protoss, such as a Stork (see their last PL matchup), Best (OSL), or the king himself Bisu (see GOM, PL) who won't make the small mistakes that put you impossibly behind against the Flash strat, the landscape changes completely.
Imagine the Medusa game with Bisu playing - there's no way Bisu loses that shuttle, and there's no way Bisu thinks he has Stasis when he doesn't (Bisu likely avoids EMP). In addition, Bisu would have had far better macro and probably found a whole in Flash's turret maze (or done some elevator multitasking that only he can pull off). All of a sudden that's a totally different game.
Even though Stork has been terrible lately, I'm still looking forward to Flash vs Stork tomorrow because it's always nice to see an elite Protoss player play against Flash. Below a certain level it's just a steamroll (see Horang, Pure, Reach recently), but above it, games get extremely interesting. I just can't see Flash 3-0ing Bisu, which makes me wonder if Fantasy's style isn't more resilient at the higher levels, and if offense isn't more resilient in elite series play.
One thing's for sure - Flash's TvP is as close as you can get to being invincible in a matchup when played against a lesser players.
To me at least, Flash IS slumping in the sense that he's just executing the optimized build he created and that's it. There are 2 Flash's that show up to a game. One that just mindlessly does the build relative to the other Flash, who constantly reads and adapts even in the smallest of ways to his opponent. Flash #1 has near perfect execution in a standard game and steamrolls anyone non-S class. But without the intelligence that Flash #2 has behind the play, not just the build, he can't take on the top players very well. Bisu said it once in an interview that Flash is too stubborn and robotic sometimes and that's very true.
It's almost like a curse that Flash's bulletproof robo-builds are so good that only the very best of the best progamers can beat them, because if nothing else it just encourages his style. Unless Flash is playing Bisu (the ultimate multitask measuring stick) all the time in practice, he's probably barely even getting any valuable feedback on his TvP.
Flash needs a change of scenery imo, aka switch teams! =D
His style has evolved to the point of perfection but his overall play has stagnated. JD and Bisu>Flash right now imo. I feel the reason why teams like CJ and SKT are so good throughout the years is because of their deeper lineup. Multiple good players with different styles that push each other to learn and adapt to completely new things. If you haven't noticed, a new mid-game dropship trend has started to show up in TvP. Best examples of this is Fantasy vs. Pure in proleague and Iris vs. Stats today on God's Garden. Looks like: port off 2 base->increase vulture production->extra minerals into 3rd cc->expo behind dropship harass->3base terran vs 3 base toss-> ferry tanks and vultures nonstop to deny toss's 4th + vulture runbys in main. The style in those games are like the next evolution of Flash's tvp. I just don't think KTF has what it takes to continue to develop and stay one step ahead of the metagame like that. It's just Flash. And that makes me sad.
That style isn't new at all, in fact it's very very old school (Think old NaDa games). It's being revived on God's Garden because of the cliffable third. The build flash played is a hard counter to 2 base carrier, I mean what more do you want.
Well, he did unexpectedley lose to both GGPlay and Luxury when he was a clear favorite. Same thing with how Jaedong loses to protoss (Backho, han) and Bisu loses to zerg.
On May 17 2009 21:50 SuperArc wrote: How can Flash only have won one OSL?
Because of twins, JD, and Terrans cheesing him left and right.
Flash's Achilles' heel is his ZvT no one from the three zergs mentioned above has cheesed him , the only time Jaedong did was Flash's fault .
Sorry for grammar mistake, I never meant that the twins and JD actually cheesed Flash, well Yarnc did in 1 game in MSL but thats it. But its every friggin goddamn terran cheesing flash left and right, and he deserves it too sometimes because of his mass 14cc.
For the first time, the games turned out how I thought they would hehe. I'm glad flash won.
I think the reason flash has flashes of greatness and then loses a bunch is his inability to deal with a heavy work schedule. He has to go to high school and play a ton of SC.
On May 18 2009 00:34 TwoToneTerran wrote: That's not really an achilles heel. Flash is probably the only Terran to justifiably stand toe to toe with Jaedong when he was hot.
On May 17 2009 22:06 darktreb wrote: I'm a huge Flash fan and he won easily, so there's not much more to ask for. However, before you say that when Flash plays like this, he's invincible, it should be noted that Flash's playstyle really "cliffs" in a sense that Protoss players below a certain level have no chance, not just to win the game, but look like they had ANY chance whatsoever of winning the game. Like, you get the feeling that Flash knows he's a far superior player mechanically than Reach, and therefore has no problem playing his pure turtle style for the safest possible win against a lesser player. I mean, if you can't match Flash's macro and can't kill him early, how can you possibly beat this strat? Honestly, it's a testament to Flash's genius for him to have developed this virtually bulletproof style against lesser players, and it's one of the reasons why Flash never ever ever ever loses to players more than one tier below him. To be perfectly honest, I wonder if Flash even prepared for these games - he's played enough TvP on Medusa to do it in his sleep, and he certainly seemed content to play "I got a ramp, free fast expo, and free 3 base on God's Garden".
But, when you bring in a top tier Protoss, such as a Stork (see their last PL matchup), Best (OSL), or the king himself Bisu (see GOM, PL) who won't make the small mistakes that put you impossibly behind against the Flash strat, the landscape changes completely.
Imagine the Medusa game with Bisu playing - there's no way Bisu loses that shuttle, and there's no way Bisu thinks he has Stasis when he doesn't (Bisu likely avoids EMP). In addition, Bisu would have had far better macro and probably found a whole in Flash's turret maze (or done some elevator multitasking that only he can pull off). All of a sudden that's a totally different game.
Even though Stork has been terrible lately, I'm still looking forward to Flash vs Stork tomorrow because it's always nice to see an elite Protoss player play against Flash. Below a certain level it's just a steamroll (see Horang, Pure, Reach recently), but above it, games get extremely interesting. I just can't see Flash 3-0ing Bisu, which makes me wonder if Fantasy's style isn't more resilient at the higher levels, and if offense isn't more resilient in elite series play.
One thing's for sure - Flash's TvP is as close as you can get to being invincible in a matchup when played against a lesser players.
To me at least, Flash IS slumping in the sense that he's just executing the optimized build he created and that's it. There are 2 Flash's that show up to a game. One that just mindlessly does the build relative to the other Flash, who constantly reads and adapts even in the smallest of ways to his opponent. Flash #1 has near perfect execution in a standard game and steamrolls anyone non-S class. But without the intelligence that Flash #2 has behind the play, not just the build, he can't take on the top players very well. Bisu said it once in an interview that Flash is too stubborn and robotic sometimes and that's very true.
It's almost like a curse that Flash's bulletproof robo-builds are so good that only the very best of the best progamers can beat them, because if nothing else it just encourages his style. Unless Flash is playing Bisu (the ultimate multitask measuring stick) all the time in practice, he's probably barely even getting any valuable feedback on his TvP.
Flash needs a change of scenery imo, aka switch teams! =D
His style has evolved to the point of perfection but his overall play has stagnated. JD and Bisu>Flash right now imo. I feel the reason why teams like CJ and SKT are so good throughout the years is because of their deeper lineup. Multiple good players with different styles that push each other to learn and adapt to completely new things. If you haven't noticed, a new mid-game dropship trend has started to show up in TvP. Best examples of this is Fantasy vs. Pure in proleague and Iris vs. Stats today on God's Garden. Looks like: port off 2 base->increase vulture production->extra minerals into 3rd cc->expo behind dropship harass->3base terran vs 3 base toss-> ferry tanks and vultures nonstop to deny toss's 4th + vulture runbys in main. The style in those games are like the next evolution of Flash's tvp. I just don't think KTF has what it takes to continue to develop and stay one step ahead of the metagame like that. It's just Flash. And that makes me sad.
That style isn't new at all, in fact it's very very old school (Think old NaDa games). It's being revived on God's Garden because of the cliffable third. The build flash played is a hard counter to 2 base carrier, I mean what more do you want.
That's a new iloveoov build. It first got used in the opening week of winner's league in iloveoov vs rage. Nada never went for a 3rd cc off of 3 factories, didn't rush the fast armories then either, and while I'm less certain I don't think he ever got an academy/port off of 1 fact after expanding. It's a very good build and has nothing to do with Gods garden.
Good to see that Flash hasn't disappointed and advanced further with 2:0 (I'm sorry Reach). I hope he will win tonight against Stork as well and will proceed to break 70% in his TvP record.
Man, seeing Iris agreesive play vs protoss makes me want to play like him. Even though his style doesn't seem as rock solid as Flash's style, it was still entertaining.
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Tadzio/GOMS3/aiclassic3w.png)
Index vs 
sKyHigh
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![[image loading]](http://content.ytmnd.com/content/e/7/e/e7e079e9de62848a0580895f11716f9a.jpg)
