Well although this is a little much for me to say about Flash but I really like to see another KTFlash today... I know with this tight schedule BUT I gotta get my FANTASY rolling today!!! Come on... Flash... appear before me!
On February 11 2009 09:33 Juicyfruit wrote: I'm just hoping KTF can get by without Flash playing more than 1 game at most. From what I've read, boy needs a break.
Nah, he loves the attention. Flash all-kill again!!!
all i know is that if hwasin and flash play whoever wins I win wooot more TvT VODs Its a shame there wont be any chintastical games until march but I can wait. Shine hwaiting!
I think Luxury can easily take two games from STX (Andromeda is the second map and I don't see Luxury lose on this one). Then, we'll see .. Anyway, KTF should win this.
It's funny to see how much more support there is for KTF because they were extremely underpriced in fantasy league so everybody has them on their team.
On February 11 2009 11:24 Kuja900 wrote: hrm im not sure if wel see july tonight because ktf is notorious for their lack of toss
so is lecaf but that didn't stop STX from sending him out vs hiya. I think STX and July are pretty confident in his ZvT once again (and his games vs light and sea have made me confident in it as well). If STX gets to the point where they're basically just sending their whole line-up out to see who can take a game off of flash, July is a very likely candidate.
Lux all-kill unless July or Kal get lucky (like, fluke a win with cheese) or Hwasin is sent out early to take him out (in which case FlaSh will clean up Hwasin).
I don't fully understand the whole "flash/lux need a break!" thing going on recently. I understand the concept of overwork, but it's their profession and I assume their passion is to be the best in the world. I doubt you would ever hear one of them say "gee I hope I don't have to go out and all kill today" and if that was the case, IMO they lack the drive to be the best.
An all kill brings a great amount of fame and attention in the SC world and I'm sure Flash and Lux both would love to be the first to have two all kills under their belt.
(not trying to single people out btw, just sayin')
I think Lux can all kill but only if he's playing his game well. STX also has a fighting chance, so it sgould be some interesting games!
On February 11 2009 12:06 Lamentations wrote: Lux all-kill unless July or Kal get lucky (like, fluke a win with cheese) or Hwasin is sent out early to take him out (in which case FlaSh will clean up Hwasin).
On February 11 2009 12:12 Vasoline73 wrote: I don't fully understand the whole "flash/lux need a break!" thing going on recently. I understand the concept of overwork, but it's their profession and I assume their passion is to be the best in the world. I doubt you would ever hear one of them say "gee I hope I don't have to go out and all kill today" and if that was the case, IMO they lack the drive to be the best.
I think it's more the sheer amount of games they have to practice for, given their individual league commitments as well as WL. If they're pushed to have to play constantly, they're not going to be playing as well as they might if they properly prepared for the game/series.
On February 11 2009 12:06 Lamentations wrote: Lux all-kill unless July or Kal get lucky (like, fluke a win with cheese) or Hwasin is sent out early to take him out (in which case FlaSh will clean up Hwasin).
On February 11 2009 12:12 Vasoline73 wrote: I don't fully understand the whole "flash/lux need a break!" thing going on recently. I understand the concept of overwork, but it's their profession and I assume their passion is to be the best in the world. I doubt you would ever hear one of them say "gee I hope I don't have to go out and all kill today" and if that was the case, IMO they lack the drive to be the best.
An all kill brings a great amount of fame and attention in the SC world and I'm sure Flash and Lux both would love to be the first to have two all kills under their belt.
(not trying to single people out btw, just sayin')
I think Lux can all kill but only if he's playing his game well. STX also has a fighting chance, so it sgould be some interesting games!
your a complete idiot. Flash is 16 and goes to school, and still has to practice like mad and sometimes play 3-4 games a day, with everything riding on him. Luxury needs a break in the sense that his team needs support, Luxury is far from a mental break down. Flash is not. He would be the indisputed Bonjwa if he didn't have this ridiculous work load, that can be alleviated- which is why people are calling for it to be done.
ktf needs to get in a position to force STX to use hwasin early, which means luxury needs to play strong.
after that, every player KTF has remaning before they have to use flash has but one goal: to extend the game as long as possible and wear hwasin out.
i know what i say seems weird because there's so many july fans and everyone thinks Kal is good or whatnot but really, the only threat to KTFlash is hwasin right now. i hope the coaches know this and act accordingly
On February 11 2009 12:12 Vasoline73 wrote: I don't fully understand the whole "flash/lux need a break!" thing going on recently. I understand the concept of overwork, but it's their profession and I assume their passion is to be the best in the world. I doubt you would ever hear one of them say "gee I hope I don't have to go out and all kill today" and if that was the case, IMO they lack the drive to be the best.
An all kill brings a great amount of fame and attention in the SC world and I'm sure Flash and Lux both would love to be the first to have two all kills under their belt.
(not trying to single people out btw, just sayin')
I think Lux can all kill but only if he's playing his game well. STX also has a fighting chance, so it sgould be some interesting games!
You're a complete idiot. Flash is 16 and goes to school, and still has to practice like mad and sometimes play 3-4 games a day, with everything riding on him. Luxury needs a break in the sense that his team needs support, Luxury is far from a mental break down. Flash is not. He would be the indisputed Bonjwa if he didn't have this ridiculous work load, that can be alleviated- which is why people are calling for it to be done.
When you call someone else an idiot, you have to be at least grammatically correct when doing so.
On February 11 2009 12:06 Lamentations wrote: Lux all-kill unless July or Kal get lucky (like, fluke a win with cheese) or Hwasin is sent out early to take him out (in which case FlaSh will clean up Hwasin).
Yea because if kal(historicaally good pvz) beats lux (historically meh zvp) surely it has to be luck or cheese...riiiiight...
And we could see Flash play Hwasin twice tonight.
Luxury is 6-4 in last 10 PvZs, doesn't seem like historically weak PvZ to me. He is 1-1 against Kal in his last 10, too so there is a strong chance he wins. My point was also that if they do meet Luxury will aldready be warmed up.
I think that Red Z is screwed, he allowed yellow to pump defensive lings. But then again...he broke the defense, so seem slike KTF is off to a good start, haha.
On February 11 2009 13:16 sung_moon wrote: as some1 who never plays ZvZ wouldnt calm's build counter lux's? he had his 2nd hatch for so long and he could of outmassed lux? i cant understand ZvZ
I had a comment but then I realized that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Hence why you asked for someone who can ZvZ, haha.
Calm's 12 pool is a counter to Luxury's 9 pool, but he build his hatchery at his expansive delay his tech. He was force to put many (4?) spore colonies. Each spore colonies cost about 400 minerals (including the lost of a drone). Calm was way behind...
Calm was also forced to make a evolution chamber (drone and 100 mineral?) for the spore as well...
On February 11 2009 13:19 LunarDestiny wrote: Calm's 12 pool is a counter to Luxury's 9 pool, but he build his hatchery at his expansive delay his tech. He was force to put many (4?) spore colonies. Each spore colonies cost about 400 minerals (including the lost of a drone). Calm was way behind...
Calm was Yellow? I assume so. Anyways, lots of Zergs have won ZvZ's lately using the very strategy that Calm used. I only saw a bit of the playback but it looks like he was forced to put up too many spore colonies too early, which meant he would never be able to capitalize on his early expansion. Also, even Jaedong had a sunken up at the nat along with a spore.
i have both lux and flash on my pl, since more ppl have flash then lux i want lux to go on a 3kill streak then stx somehow brings it home just cause they my fav team and im not greedy for fpl points (already in top 10 wuttup)
On February 11 2009 13:19 LunarDestiny wrote: Calm's 12 pool is a counter to Luxury's 9 pool, but he build his hatchery at his expansive delay his tech. He was force to put many (4?) spore colonies. Each spore colonies cost about 400 minerals (including the lost of a drone). Calm was way behind...
Calm was Yellow? I assume so. Anyways, lots of Zergs have won ZvZ's lately using the very strategy that Calm used.
Calm was the yellow player. I am not sure but whoever make his hatchery at his expansion tend to lose because he will be force dto defend on two front.
On February 11 2009 13:19 LunarDestiny wrote: Calm's 12 pool is a counter to Luxury's 9 pool, but he build his hatchery at his expansive delay his tech. He was force to put many (4?) spore colonies. Each spore colonies cost about 400 minerals (including the lost of a drone). Calm was way behind...
Calm was Yellow? I assume so. Anyways, lots of Zergs have won ZvZ's lately using the very strategy that Calm used.
Calm LOVES to take his nat in zvz... I think I've seen him do it almost every time.
He's been pretty deadly lately. Let's see how he faces up against Luxury.
I don't get why people keep going on about Hwasin's awesome 2009 run of like 9-2. Three wins include FireFist and HoeJJa, hardly stiff competition. Really is another win and he is terrible. Mind is OK I guess but what only like 55% TvT or so? And he has one loss against him. He only really has 1-2 big wins over JaeDong (who some say is in a slump, while I don't go this far he is not playing his best) and FlaSh. Everyone is beating BeSt atm (4-6 in last 10).
Oh well I guess we will see here, I still think Lux can all kill.
On February 11 2009 13:19 LunarDestiny wrote: Calm's 12 pool is a counter to Luxury's 9 pool, but he build his hatchery at his expansive delay his tech. He was force to put many (4?) spore colonies. Each spore colonies cost about 400 minerals (including the lost of a drone). Calm was way behind...
Calm was Yellow? I assume so. Anyways, lots of Zergs have won ZvZ's lately using the very strategy that Calm used.
Calm was the yellow player. I am not sure but whoever make his hatchery at his expansion tend to lose because he will be force dto defend on two front.
Hmmm, you should see Jaedong vs. ZerO and a couple other recent ZvZ games, mainly on Chupung Ryeong. The player who built a hatchery at the natural expansion usually won, going spore colonies for early defense against a muta build and then would get a second gas up and get a ton of mutas a bit later.
He's been pretty deadly lately. Let's see how he faces up against Luxury.
I don't get why people keep going on about Hwasin's awesome 2009 run of like 9-2. Three wins include FireFist and HoeJJa, hardly stiff competition. Really is another win and he is terrible. Mind is OK I guess but what only like 55% TvT or so? And he has one loss against him. He only really has 1-2 big wins over JaeDong (who some say is in a slump, while I don't go this far he is not playing his best) and FlaSh. Everyone is beating BeSt atm (4-6 in last 10).
Oh well I guess we will see here, I still think Lux can all kill.
Try watching the games instead of just looking at TLPD?
He's been pretty deadly lately. Let's see how he faces up against Luxury.
I don't get why people keep going on about Hwasin's awesome 2009 run of like 9-2. Three wins include FireFist and HoeJJa, hardly stiff competition. Really is another win and he is terrible. Mind is OK I guess but what only like 55% TvT or so? And he has one loss against him. He only really has 1-2 big wins over JaeDong (who some say is in a slump, while I don't go this far he is not playing his best) and FlaSh. Everyone is beating BeSt atm (4-6 in last 10).
Oh well I guess we will see here, I still think Lux can all kill.
You don't see what's so great about beating the best Terran, Zerg and one of the best Protoss in the world all consecutively after being in a long slump? If sAviOr did it people would be freaking out.
I don't see why sAviOr fans HAVEN'T been freaking out actually, he's run up a nice winning stream himself with victories over Bisu and Leta.
He's been pretty deadly lately. Let's see how he faces up against Luxury.
I don't get why people keep going on about Hwasin's awesome 2009 run of like 9-2. Three wins include FireFist and HoeJJa, hardly stiff competition. Really is another win and he is terrible. Mind is OK I guess but what only like 55% TvT or so? And he has one loss against him. He only really has 1-2 big wins over JaeDong (who some say is in a slump, while I don't go this far he is not playing his best) and FlaSh. Everyone is beating BeSt atm (4-6 in last 10).
Oh well I guess we will see here, I still think Lux can all kill.
You don't see what's so great about beating the best Terran, Zerg and one of the best Protoss in the world all consecutively after being in a long slump? If sAviOr did it people would be freaking out.
I don't see why sAviOr fans HAVEN'T been freaking out actually, he's run up a nice winning stream himself with victories over Bisu and Leta.
He's one of the few players in both leagues still.
Best...has been playing rough lately. He's only been worth a few wins in Winner's League as opposed to 4 or 5 wins he'd be worth earlier in the year.
On February 11 2009 12:12 Vasoline73 wrote: I don't fully understand the whole "flash/lux need a break!" thing going on recently. I understand the concept of overwork, but it's their profession and I assume their passion is to be the best in the world. I doubt you would ever hear one of them say "gee I hope I don't have to go out and all kill today" and if that was the case, IMO they lack the drive to be the best.
An all kill brings a great amount of fame and attention in the SC world and I'm sure Flash and Lux both would love to be the first to have two all kills under their belt.
(not trying to single people out btw, just sayin')
I think Lux can all kill but only if he's playing his game well. STX also has a fighting chance, so it sgould be some interesting games!
your a complete idiot. Flash is 16 and goes to school, and still has to practice like mad and sometimes play 3-4 games a day, with everything riding on him. Luxury needs a break in the sense that his team needs support, Luxury is far from a mental break down. Flash is not. He would be the indisputed Bonjwa if he didn't have this ridiculous work load, that can be alleviated- which is why people are calling for it to be done.
Hey now, why the insults?
Flash chooses to go to school, chooses to play games and claims to want to be the best. I'm pretty sure he knows better than a bunch of fans halfway across the world regarding what he can handle. That's all I'm saying. Some people are acting like KTF is a slave labor camp and it's over the top imo.
He's been pretty deadly lately. Let's see how he faces up against Luxury.
I don't get why people keep going on about Hwasin's awesome 2009 run of like 9-2. Three wins include FireFist and HoeJJa, hardly stiff competition. Really is another win and he is terrible. Mind is OK I guess but what only like 55% TvT or so? And he has one loss against him. He only really has 1-2 big wins over JaeDong (who some say is in a slump, while I don't go this far he is not playing his best) and FlaSh. Everyone is beating BeSt atm (4-6 in last 10).
Oh well I guess we will see here, I still think Lux can all kill.
You don't see what's so great about beating the best Terran, Zerg and one of the best Protoss in the world all consecutively after being in a long slump? If sAviOr did it people would be freaking out.
I don't see why sAviOr fans HAVEN'T been freaking out actually, he's run up a nice winning stream himself with victories over Bisu and Leta.
One off wins after a slump, and the point was people are always quoting the 9-1 stats or whatever when really they are not that great. BeSt is not doing well and JaeDong played poorly (by his standards) in his games. I didn't see the FlaSh game but then I saw nothing in the rest to indicate Hwasin's prowess so one game can't make a difference as far as I'm concerned.
On February 11 2009 12:12 Vasoline73 wrote: I don't fully understand the whole "flash/lux need a break!" thing going on recently. I understand the concept of overwork, but it's their profession and I assume their passion is to be the best in the world. I doubt you would ever hear one of them say "gee I hope I don't have to go out and all kill today" and if that was the case, IMO they lack the drive to be the best.
An all kill brings a great amount of fame and attention in the SC world and I'm sure Flash and Lux both would love to be the first to have two all kills under their belt.
(not trying to single people out btw, just sayin')
I think Lux can all kill but only if he's playing his game well. STX also has a fighting chance, so it sgould be some interesting games!
your a complete idiot. Flash is 16 and goes to school, and still has to practice like mad and sometimes play 3-4 games a day, with everything riding on him. Luxury needs a break in the sense that his team needs support, Luxury is far from a mental break down. Flash is not. He would be the indisputed Bonjwa if he didn't have this ridiculous work load, that can be alleviated- which is why people are calling for it to be done.
Hey now, why the insults?
Flash chooses to go to school, chooses to play games and claims to want to be the best. I'm pretty sure he knows better than a bunch of fans halfway across the world regarding what he can handle. That's all I'm saying. Some people are acting like KTF is a slave labor camp and it's over the top imo.
KTF has always been a slave labor camp ever since 2002.
On February 11 2009 13:19 LunarDestiny wrote: Calm's 12 pool is a counter to Luxury's 9 pool, but he build his hatchery at his expansive delay his tech. He was force to put many (4?) spore colonies. Each spore colonies cost about 400 minerals (including the lost of a drone). Calm was way behind...
Calm was Yellow? I assume so. Anyways, lots of Zergs have won ZvZ's lately using the very strategy that Calm used.
Calm was the yellow player. I am not sure but whoever make his hatchery at his expansion tend to lose because he will be force dto defend on two front.
Hmmm, you should see Jaedong vs. ZerO and a couple other recent ZvZ games, mainly on Chupung Ryeong. The player who built a hatchery at the natural expansion usually won, going spore colonies for early defense against a muta build and then would get a second gas up and get a ton of mutas a bit later.
This string of reply is getting stupid. I admit I only seen like 10 ZvZ in the past 2 week so I am not pro at the recent style of ZvZ. I just watch the zvz of Jaedong vs ZerO of Hwaseung vs WoongJin. In that game, Jaedong went for a 9 pool and ZerO went for a 12 pool much like this game. ZerO also plant his hatchery at his expansion but was forced to cancelled it. As the game went on, Jaedong planted his hatchery then ZerO replanted his hatchery later than Jaedong. At that point of the game, Jaedong was massively ahead and proceded to raping ZerO. He IS Jaedong is ZvZ master after all.
I will admit defeat if you point me at another ZvZ because this is too much work...
Lux is playing smart. He's expoing in locations that are making the terran army move. The sunks are place in a position to set up flanks. Ready for this?
On February 11 2009 13:19 LunarDestiny wrote: Calm's 12 pool is a counter to Luxury's 9 pool, but he build his hatchery at his expansive delay his tech. He was force to put many (4?) spore colonies. Each spore colonies cost about 400 minerals (including the lost of a drone). Calm was way behind...
Calm was Yellow? I assume so. Anyways, lots of Zergs have won ZvZ's lately using the very strategy that Calm used.
Calm was the yellow player. I am not sure but whoever make his hatchery at his expansion tend to lose because he will be force dto defend on two front.
Hmmm, you should see Jaedong vs. ZerO and a couple other recent ZvZ games, mainly on Chupung Ryeong. The player who built a hatchery at the natural expansion usually won, going spore colonies for early defense against a muta build and then would get a second gas up and get a ton of mutas a bit later.
This string of reply is getting stupid. I admit I only seen like 10 ZvZ in the past 2 week so I am not pro at the recent style of ZvZ. I just watch the zvz of Jaedong vs ZerO of Hwaseung vs WoongJin. In that game, Jaedong went for a 9 pool and ZerO went for a 12 pool much like this game. ZerO also plant his hatchery at his expansion but was forced to cancelled it. As the game went on, Jaedong planted his hatchery then ZerO replanted his hatchery later than Jaedong. At that point of the game, Jaedong was massively ahead and proceded to raping ZerO. He IS Jaedong is ZvZ master after all.
I will admit defeat if you point me at another ZvZ because this is too much work...
I didn't mean anything by it... I was just pointing it out....
Don't have to get so defensive man. I wasn't really aware we were arguing.
Good example of why Zergs rarely ever 3 hatch muta any more. Terrans are just TOO FUCKING GOOD at defending vs it now (although I guess since lux opened 9pool and didnt slow down hwasin the slightest Hwasin had even extra time to make turrets and marines).
On February 11 2009 13:43 sung_moon wrote: cows are literally being purged to death this game i thinkl lux is tryign to tire out hwasin soemhow
They should just send out a terran like Canata. I think that's his real purpose on SKT1. He's the anti-Leta counter. Make that kid tired.
Neither SKT or OGN is playing in this match... in fact they aren't even playing tonight. You seem completely lost.
Yea, I said Terran LIKE Canata. This is what they could use Shine for. Send him out in a 60 minute TvT so Hwsain's dead tired when Flash has to go 3-0 to take the match.
On February 11 2009 13:48 BlackMagister wrote: I'm not surprised that Luxury lost to Hwasin, but I am surprised by how badly he lost. What the heck Luxury?
9pool didnt do anythign with a walled off hwasin in cross map
plus his ebay/academy build i guess countered the mutas of lux
Hwasin scouted better and knew exactly what was coming, but then again scan means they generally do scout better. Overall it was a good T player's best matchup vs a good Z player's worst matchup and was expected, but I hoped for Lux to all kill ;(
On February 11 2009 13:43 sung_moon wrote: cows are literally being purged to death this game i thinkl lux is tryign to tire out hwasin soemhow
They should just send out a terran like Canata. I think that's his real purpose on SKT1. He's the anti-Leta counter. Make that kid tired.
Neither SKT or OGN is playing in this match... in fact they aren't even playing tonight. You seem completely lost.
He's saying someone LIKE Canata.
got to agree that his post seemed lost or troll, on the other side i dont see a terran like canata on ktf. Best shot for ktf seems to be pure... lol no i meant tempest
On February 11 2009 13:51 Ingenol wrote: 9 Pool on Andromeda is not an optimal strategy IMO.
It's weird because I've never seen a pro's 9pool work on andro ZvT, yet all the time I'm seeing Zergs 9pool vs Terran on this map. Why? It seems like not too great a map to do it on(big 4 player map with long rush distances, all Ts wall-in on it all the time)....
On February 11 2009 13:51 Ingenol wrote: 9 Pool on Andromeda is not an optimal strategy IMO.
It's weird because I've never seen a pro's 9pool work on andro ZvT, yet all the time I'm seeing Zergs 9pool vs Terran on this map. Why? It seems like not too great a map to do it on(big 4 player map with long rush distances, all Ts wall-in on it all the time)....
On February 11 2009 13:51 Ingenol wrote: 9 Pool on Andromeda is not an optimal strategy IMO.
It's weird because I've never seen a pro's 9pool work on andro ZvT, yet all the time I'm seeing Zergs 9pool vs Terran on this map. Why? It seems like not too great a map to do it on(big 4 player map with long rush distances, all Ts wall-in on it all the time)....
Maybe because he thought he was playing vs Flash? Who has a chance of 14ccing?
Seriously though not sure what Luxury was thinking, if 9 pool so rarely works why do it? What builds would it counter besides 14cc. Then he followed it with weird sunk up strategy to fast ultras. Maybe I'm missing something, but unless you have some secret trick like what Luxury did on Troy vs Flash, mass sunkening seems silly.
On February 11 2009 13:51 Ingenol wrote: 9 Pool on Andromeda is not an optimal strategy IMO.
It's weird because I've never seen a pro's 9pool work on andro ZvT, yet all the time I'm seeing Zergs 9pool vs Terran on this map. Why? It seems like not too great a map to do it on(big 4 player map with long rush distances, all Ts wall-in on it all the time)....
luxury vs firebathero @ andro, when luxury allkilled.
On February 11 2009 13:43 sung_moon wrote: cows are literally being purged to death this game i thinkl lux is tryign to tire out hwasin soemhow
They should just send out a terran like Canata. I think that's his real purpose on SKT1. He's the anti-Leta counter. Make that kid tired.
Neither SKT or OGN is playing in this match... in fact they aren't even playing tonight. You seem completely lost.
He's saying someone LIKE Canata.
got to agree that his post seemed lost or troll, on the other side i dont see a terran like canata on ktf. Best shot for ktf seems to be pure... lol no i meant tempest
? theres nothing trollish about what he said it made perfect sense. when a team has only one good player (like ogn with leta) then it might be smart to use mediocre players who play really long defensive games (similar to canata) to wear them out so they can then be killed. which was prompted by the first guy saying that lux was trying to tire hwasin out.
On February 11 2009 14:01 falls wrote: Can't send Flash yet, or Flash might get sniped.
It seems like that would be the perfect time to send Flash, actually. It means he couldn't possibly have to play on Medusa, he either ends it 4-1 or loses before the 6th set.
On February 11 2009 14:12 thunk wrote: Sair did a good job of utilizing those mines. He doesn't have much left in the bag of magic tricks, it might become a battle of the better player.
Sair doesn't want that.
I like you, you are right all the time on this thread
On February 11 2009 13:43 sung_moon wrote: cows are literally being purged to death this game i thinkl lux is tryign to tire out hwasin soemhow
They should just send out a terran like Canata. I think that's his real purpose on SKT1. He's the anti-Leta counter. Make that kid tired.
Neither SKT or OGN is playing in this match... in fact they aren't even playing tonight. You seem completely lost.
He's saying someone LIKE Canata.
got to agree that his post seemed lost or troll, on the other side i dont see a terran like canata on ktf. Best shot for ktf seems to be pure... lol no i meant tempest
? theres nothing trollish about what he said it made perfect sense. when a team has only one good player (like ogn with leta) then it might be smart to use mediocre players who play really long defensive games (similar to canata) to wear them out so they can then be killed. which was prompted by the first guy saying that lux was trying to tire hwasin out.
My bad, i understood the post and his reference but if you take the post alone making reference to players and teams that are not involved sounds weird never actually believed he was pretty lost.
On February 11 2009 14:12 thunk wrote: Sair did a good job of utilizing those mines. He doesn't have much left in the bag of magic tricks, it might become a battle of the better player.
Sair doesn't want that.
I like you, you are right all the time on this thread
I like you too. Your translations are excellent.
You should see the times when I'm always wrong. Those are equally hilarious. Quite embarrassing though.
On February 11 2009 13:43 sung_moon wrote: cows are literally being purged to death this game i thinkl lux is tryign to tire out hwasin soemhow
They should just send out a terran like Canata. I think that's his real purpose on SKT1. He's the anti-Leta counter. Make that kid tired.
Neither SKT or OGN is playing in this match... in fact they aren't even playing tonight. You seem completely lost.
He's saying someone LIKE Canata.
got to agree that his post seemed lost or troll, on the other side i dont see a terran like canata on ktf. Best shot for ktf seems to be pure... lol no i meant tempest
? theres nothing trollish about what he said it made perfect sense. when a team has only one good player (like ogn with leta) then it might be smart to use mediocre players who play really long defensive games (similar to canata) to wear them out so they can then be killed. which was prompted by the first guy saying that lux was trying to tire hwasin out.
My bad, i understood the post and his reference but if you take the post alone making reference to players and teams that are not involved sounds weird never actually believed he was pretty lost.
yeah... it was my bad. I didn't read his post very carefully at first. It makes sense what he said now though.
man sar seemed to be doing everything he could to come back and made up a lot of lose-ground with mines, but hwasin just totally outplayed him(I think, I don't know TvT THAT well :\ )
On February 11 2009 14:17 LunarDestiny wrote: KTF should send in Flash now before the map Medusa...
Flash is an absolute monster on that map, going 8-3 with his only recent loss being to an unstoppable Bisu. I'd be very surprised if he didn't steamroll Kal or whoever they decide to throw out there.
Hwasin started his carrer with fantastic TvZ. His skill in the other 2 matchups has increased so much now. Hwasins TvT is top notch these days. His TvP is good but Protoss players are scary nowadays so against Dragons he is no safecard
Well, here's the reason why KTF was worth zero points during Fantasy. Lux scored one, but he was taken out by a hot player (like Hwsain). Flash now has to take out Hwsain, which is no mean feat, but also has to take out a pretty deep STX line up, full of competent snipers, players, and exhaustive players of their own.
On February 11 2009 14:19 Ideas wrote: man sar seemed to be doing everything he could to come back and made up a lot of lose-ground with mines, but hwasin just totally outplayed him(I think, I don't know TvT THAT well :\ )
Hwasin read his opponent perfectly (hence the reason why he is an S class player). Although we thought Sair was getting an economic advantage over Hwasin, Hwasin did an absolutely amazing job defending the attack.
Also, Hwasin and sair had the same amount of units throughout the whole game.
I wish they would have sent out FireFist or Hoejja or even Lucifer or Tempest. I mean there is no rush hour this set why do they need to send out Hery -_-
On February 11 2009 14:23 BlackMagister wrote: I wish they would have sent out FireFist or Hoejja or even Lucifer or Tempest. I mean there is no rush hour this set why do they need to send out Hery -_-
On February 11 2009 14:19 Ideas wrote: man sar seemed to be doing everything he could to come back and made up a lot of lose-ground with mines, but hwasin just totally outplayed him(I think, I don't know TvT THAT well :\ )
Hwasin read his opponent perfectly (hence the reason why he is an S class player). Although we thought Sair was getting an economic advantage over Hwasin, Hwasin did an absolutely amazing job defending the attack.
Also, Hwasin and sair had the same amount of units throughout the whole game.
Yea, Sair did not do very much econ damage, which was what supposed to stem Hwsain's units from coming up.
Well looks like there is a chance for a Hwasin all kill. As I'm sure Sair was their first pick sniper to kill Hwasin with Hery as backup. Not exactly a good thing.
Hery has zero map control now. He can only defend. He has 2 whole vultures in the middle of the map planting mines. His three dropships are running around trying not to get sniped.
Although Hery couldn't macro for shit, I cant believe Hwasin blocked the first dropship attack so fucking well. If it was any other player they would've lost.
On February 11 2009 14:59 SimonB wrote: I hope it's not Flash. Anything less than 3 wins is a failure, and you don't want to wreck his confidence right before both the OSL and MSL.
I also hope they don't send Flash. Kid has very hard week ahead and really deserves some rest. It is insane how much he has to play being at KTF...
EDIT: And they DID send Flash. Epic fail from coaches....
On February 11 2009 14:56 falls wrote: Hwasin v Flash.... 99% percent sure.
The other possibility is either Lucifer or Tempest, however the probability of this is beyond unlikely...
Sending out Lucifer or Tempest is like committing suicide since July is here...
I agree, however I just said that it was the only alternative, cause they don't have one else who could beat Hwasin after those 3 players. However, doing so would be a disaster and I think KTF is thoroughly fucked without Flash and only slightly fucked with Flash.
On February 11 2009 15:03 Lhyviathan wrote: Even if Flash wins here, he (probably) has to beat Kal on Medusa, which is a tough ask... not to mention July to clean it up.
Sigh.
Flash prob stands a better chance on medusa than on the other maps lol
To be honest, maybe the coaches told flash that they would use him if they had to, but he didn't need to practice for the matches, and could just concentrate on his starleagues..
I'm sure flash would be okay with that. If he loses, well, its not his fault he has so many committments, and that the rest of his team totally sucks.
On February 11 2009 15:03 Lhyviathan wrote: Even if Flash wins here, he (probably) has to beat Kal on Medusa, which is a tough ask... not to mention July to clean it up.
Sigh.
Flash prob stands a better chance on medusa than on the other maps lol
If Kal happened to miss Bisu's PL game against Flash on Medusa, sure. If he knows what to expect from Flash then I seriously doubt he'd lose.
at least I hope Flash gets the salary he deserves, fuking mountains of $$ pouring on Reach/Yellow/Nal_rA and Flash doing a lot more for the team than them 3 combined.
winning wise that is, not image/advertise ect, yet.
On February 11 2009 15:10 iloveHieu wrote: at least I hope Flash gets the salary he deserves, fuking mountains of $$ pouring on Reach/Yellow/Nal_rA and Flash doing a lot more for the team than them 3 combined.
winning wise that is, not image/advertise ect, yet.
You guys make it sound like its painful to play SC... Dude its his job/passion or whatever.. he enjoys playing the game, is on television AND is practicing ..
On February 11 2009 15:10 iloveHieu wrote: at least I hope Flash gets the salary he deserves, fuking mountains of $$ pouring on Reach/Yellow/Nal_rA and Flash doing a lot more for the team than them 3 combined.
winning wise that is, not image/advertise ect, yet.
Dude, consider how those guys have been on the scene since 01-02, I'm pretty sure they've played more and won more than Flash.
On February 11 2009 15:06 MrHoon wrote: It isn't an all kill guys ;; Lux won the first set
If one player gets the 4 wins for victory I consider that an all-kill.
Right, but the point here is that it's two players. So you can say Flash and Luxury combined all killed. Or you can criticize Luxury for not allowing Flash to allkill, like me.
On February 11 2009 15:10 iloveHieu wrote: at least I hope Flash gets the salary he deserves, fuking mountains of $$ pouring on Reach/Yellow/Nal_rA and Flash doing a lot more for the team than them 3 combined.
winning wise that is, not image/advertise ect, yet.
Flash earned $200,000 excluding salary last year
that's awesome, the kid still needs a vacation though.
On February 11 2009 15:10 iloveHieu wrote: at least I hope Flash gets the salary he deserves, fuking mountains of $$ pouring on Reach/Yellow/Nal_rA and Flash doing a lot more for the team than them 3 combined.
winning wise that is, not image/advertise ect, yet.
Flash earned $200,000 excluding salary last year
Wow thats a lot. I think I have heard that Nada was the best paid pro player is that right?
On February 11 2009 15:10 iloveHieu wrote: at least I hope Flash gets the salary he deserves, fuking mountains of $$ pouring on Reach/Yellow/Nal_rA and Flash doing a lot more for the team than them 3 combined.
winning wise that is, not image/advertise ect, yet.
Dude, consider how those guys have been on the scene since 01-02, I'm pretty sure they've played more and won more than Flash.
Respect the Old School >.<
you're right I was too concerned with recent results.
On February 11 2009 15:10 iloveHieu wrote: at least I hope Flash gets the salary he deserves, fuking mountains of $$ pouring on Reach/Yellow/Nal_rA and Flash doing a lot more for the team than them 3 combined.
winning wise that is, not image/advertise ect, yet.
Flash earned $200,000 excluding salary last year
Wow thats a lot. I think I have heard that Nada was the best paid pro player is that right?
In his day for sure, Nada is the most accomplished player in history, the only one with both 3osl and 3msl golds.
On February 11 2009 15:16 IdrA wrote: yay for build order wins
you sc2 strategy purists, this is what you're asking for exciting huh?
hey idra I always wanted to ask something from a progamer POV
I know medusa is really hard for a terran because center cant be turreted and the main base is really large so protss can spam gateways all over the place
but seriously, 2 bad options. flash style where you have to have immaculate macro and timing and pray that they recall onto your mines, or go double expo and 10 fac 2 addon and go allin as their first arbiter comes up with like 4.5 controls of vultures and 1.5 of tanks. pray they dont have storm. or you can gamble with fac port or 2 fac, but even if you get a hard build counter on those its still not a guarantee cuz the rush distance so long and defending any kind of counter is hard because of the size of the perimeter and the size of the choke. its really just a terrible map in general.
Commentator 1: Dude on OGN, Savior beat Leta Commentator 2: Goddamnit... I wanna watch that Commentator 3: omg, that is so unfair Commentator 3: I WANNA WATCH THAT
It should be noted that Flash had nothing to lose in that game - his spot in the next round of OSL was already secure. On the other hand, if Bisu had won that he would have advanced. Instead, he had to go to tiebreakers (which he did win).
rush actually worked quite well, i think kal didnt cut probes like normal. both tanks survive and alot of probes died, and kal cant safely take his front exp for a little bit.
hes still ahead in econ tho cuz flash's cc is so late. flash takes his mineral only. kal still 2 gate obs, flash still 1 fac. vult gets in and sees all of the low ground main.
flash gonna turtle, fast gas at his natural and an armory building.
kal gonna bulldog around the back, like 6-7 goons and 4 zeals with a shuttle. depot sees it but flash will have trouble defending anyway cuz hes pure tank right now. setting up at his mineral only, kal goes in.
loses all but 2 tanks, but defends and kal loses all his units and the shuttle, flash came out ahead. both on 3 base econ, kal getting up to 4 gates i think. temp archives going too. flash still on 2 fac and getting vultures + speed
kal taking his 4th at 9. flash getting starport. both just building up for now, flash moves first vultures out to probe. kal misses them with his goons, theyll see 9 and kill a probe there, not much else. goons trap them
On February 11 2009 15:16 IdrA wrote: yay for build order wins
you sc2 strategy purists, this is what you're asking for exciting huh?
hey idra I always wanted to ask something from a progamer POV
I know medusa is really hard for a terran because center cant be turreted and the main base is really large so protss can spam gateways all over the place
How can a terran win?
FlaSh used 1 Fac FE ->Fast Armory +1 Damage -> Tank Heavy push against Bisu and had a chance, but Bisu had apperently analyzed that strategy and mass expanded. And just rolled FlaSh in the end. But if you watch the VOD you will see that without Bisu early zealot harass/drop FlaSh maybe succeed with the push.
kal takes 5th at the last natural, vultures see it immediately.
flash prepping to move out with a decent size army. kal wont have arbiters in time and his army size hasnt started booming yet. kal gonna have trouble defending this i think.
flash kills kal's temple but moves away afterwards to set up in a better position to control the center. hts out, kals army still suprisingly small and hes taking damage from mines.
kal goes in, mine field isnt big enough and speedzeals get into flashs army immediately, do decent damage. kal retreats as soon as the zeals are gone with like 12 goons left. lots of reinforcements for kal, but flash still has a good tank backbone and ALOT of reinforcements. really late 4th for flash. if this push is broken hes dead, but hes in good position now. vessel out too. siegeing kal's 3rd.
kal jewing around with dts and arb+Zeal trying to get a good mine draw. nothing big yet. flash just sieged up in an arc way in front of kals natural. kals 4th is dead, flash sending a tank to kill his 5th at 11 natural i think. kal just massing up waiting for stasis to try the break.
oh nevermind hes running part of his army around his back path..... which wont work at all because flash has tanks sieged in range of it.
but kal realizes this and goes back around to sit in front of his natural. 11 nat ding, flash finally starting his 4th. kal getting ready to try his break. kal has to crush it or he loses.
On February 11 2009 16:02 goliathoffline wrote: i dont think theyre gonna send out july for neo harmony probably notice/bogus. I see allot of tvts on that map....
On February 11 2009 16:02 goliathoffline wrote: i dont think theyre gonna send out july for neo harmony probably notice/bogus. I see allot of tvts on that map....
Notice has been doing good lately so I guess he is legitimate choice.
On February 11 2009 16:01 SilverskY wrote: FlaSh is in impeccable form... He's showing the signs of unstoppableness that he showed in the past.
I think if Flash manages not to burn out under this ridiculous schedule, he's going to take another giant leap and become unstoppable again (bonjwa-level at least temporarily). Kind of like what happened when he kept getting the hardest draws (JDx3 at his prime anyone?) at the beginning of his career and eventually overcame it.
I particularly liked Idra's LR since he told us about meta-game stuff.
On February 11 2009 15:56 IdrA wrote: ...really late 4th for flash. if this push is broken hes dead, but hes in good position now. vessel out too. siegeing kal's 3rd.
only tvp lost on medusa was against bisu....kal wouldnt have done well on neo harmony, big units are hard to move around against a contain. Look what happened to best on neo harmony
On February 11 2009 15:56 IdrA wrote: ...really late 4th for flash. if this push is broken hes dead, but hes in good position now. vessel out too. siegeing kal's 3rd.
Like this kind of helpful tidbit.
Thanks, Idra!
Well its not like we wouldnt know that without him telling..
Notice better have something prepared cause after losing to Hwasin and UpMagic, Flash's TvT has turned up to a whole new level (plus he's been preparing for Leta/Hwasin).
On February 11 2009 16:04 Random_0 wrote: I particularly liked Idra's LR since he told us about meta-game stuff.
On February 11 2009 15:56 IdrA wrote: ...really late 4th for flash. if this push is broken hes dead, but hes in good position now. vessel out too. siegeing kal's 3rd.
Like this kind of helpful tidbit.
Thanks, Idra!
Well its not like we wouldnt know that without him telling..
There is some cool insight to his LR, that might not have been the best example, but also his LRing is way better than most for those of us who can't watch right now.
Flash is obviously a heavy favorite, but I like that they picked Notice. He does have some chance at this and it shows they have confidence in him. I think we might see big things from Notice soon.
On February 11 2009 16:04 Random_0 wrote: I particularly liked Idra's LR since he told us about meta-game stuff.
On February 11 2009 15:56 IdrA wrote: ...really late 4th for flash. if this push is broken hes dead, but hes in good position now. vessel out too. siegeing kal's 3rd.
Like this kind of helpful tidbit.
Thanks, Idra!
Well its not like we wouldnt know that without him telling..
There is some cool insight to his LR, that might not have been the best example, but also his LRing is way better than most for those of us who can't watch right now.
Thanks IdrA!
I didnt say that it isnt... Its cool having someone on the "inside" actually giving information out..
On February 11 2009 16:10 3clipse wrote: Flash is obviously a heavy favorite, but I like that they picked Notice. He does have some chance at this and it shows they have confidence in him. I think we might see big things from Notice soon.
no...just no. notice won't get any notice from anyone after this
On February 11 2009 16:06 goliathoffline wrote: i think toss have better chance against flash on T favored maps than favorite maps
This honestly might be true. It seems like Flash understands TvP on a level that literally no other Terran player does (Mind has his own understanding that's different). With other Terran players presumably getting steamrolled in practice, it could be really hard to prepare for Flash.
FlaSh moving an SCV out pretty early, he makes a barracks quite a ways out of his base. Not familiar with the map so don't know exactly what he is doing here.
Meanwhile notice went for an earlier refinery than FlaSh.
On February 11 2009 16:06 goliathoffline wrote: i think toss have better chance against flash on T favored maps than favorite maps
This honestly might be true. It seems like Flash understands TvP on a level that literally no other Terran player does (Mind has his own understanding that's different). With other Terran players presumably getting steamrolled in practice, it could be really hard to prepare for Flash.
Flash's build, which is 1-Fac into expansion into super fast tech, is very vulnerable to early game harrass due to Medusa's geography. Bisu absolutely raped him in one game with 2 shuttles ferrying in troops into his main.
Kal did not do enough damage with his early attack. Although I think a S-class PvTer like Bisu/Stork/Jangbi could've ended the game quite early.
On February 11 2009 16:06 goliathoffline wrote: i think toss have better chance against flash on T favored maps than favorite maps
This honestly might be true. It seems like Flash understands TvP on a level that literally no other Terran player does (Mind has his own understanding that's different). With other Terran players presumably getting steamrolled in practice, it could be really hard to prepare for Flash.
Flash's build, which is 1-Fac into expansion into super fast tech, is very vulnerable to early game harrass due to Medusa's geography. Bisu absolutely raped him in one game with 2 shuttles ferrying in troops into his main.
Kal did not do enough damage with his early attack. Although I think a S-class PvTer like Bisu/Stork/Jangbi could've ended the game quite early.
Bisu did NOT rape him with 2 shuttles. The shuttle was a total blunder (even on his interview, he says it was a blunder). What bisu won was the lategame macro game.
Vultures duking it out now, flash taking out one of the purple Terran's vultures after a short chase into his base. Nothing ground breaking yet.
CC almost up for Flash, which is defended by a tank and a vulture. More factories going up for Flash while notice already has at least 1 additional fact and 4 vultures.
On February 11 2009 15:58 IdrA wrote: kal jewing around with dts and arb+Zeal
Excuse me? I'd expect a little more respect coming from a progamer.
Lol? He doesn't need to be politically correct to be a progamer. We have the pelvic thruster and Gogo.
Just to point out/
2. THOU SHALL OBSERVE FORUM ETIQUETTE
- Racist remarks will be shot down and you will be lynched.
Not my forum, I'll let it drop I guess.
The point was you don't need to be politically correct to be a progamer so it shouldn't be a standard for judging one. However judging what Idra said because he is on a forum with rules is different.
notice 2nd fac at normal timing, flash still on 1 fac for whatever reason
notice gets a vulture in and sees the 1 fac so gets an armoy
turns out flash was just a bit behind cuz of the openings, gets 2nd fac a bit later.
tank for flash, notice still going vulture and has speed upgrade.
notice goes in with 4 vultures, 2 tanks and a vulture for flash. gets like 2 scv kills and loses 3 of 4 vultures.
both still on 2 fac. notice still kinda confused about flashs build, going armory and acad along with vultures. guess he expects really late wraiths or somethin. flash going tank gol.
Notice made a move with 4 vultures on the expansion and lost all of his vultures for his effort. He did force the SCVs off of the minerals and took down a couple. He is sending more vultures now and Flash has blocked his ramp from a runby with a vulture.
Both players have produced goliaths and are currently attacking the scouting raxes, looks like they both may lose them.
On February 11 2009 16:06 goliathoffline wrote: i think toss have better chance against flash on T favored maps than favorite maps
This honestly might be true. It seems like Flash understands TvP on a level that literally no other Terran player does (Mind has his own understanding that's different). With other Terran players presumably getting steamrolled in practice, it could be really hard to prepare for Flash.
Flash's build, which is 1-Fac into expansion into super fast tech, is very vulnerable to early game harrass due to Medusa's geography. Bisu absolutely raped him in one game with 2 shuttles ferrying in troops into his main.
Kal did not do enough damage with his early attack. Although I think a S-class PvTer like Bisu/Stork/Jangbi could've ended the game quite early.
Bisu did NOT rape him with 2 shuttles. The shuttle was a total blunder (even on his interview, he says it was a blunder). What bisu won was the lategame macro game.
Really? My mistake then. I could've swore Bisu did a ton of damage with that elevator attack.
On February 11 2009 16:06 goliathoffline wrote: i think toss have better chance against flash on T favored maps than favorite maps
This honestly might be true. It seems like Flash understands TvP on a level that literally no other Terran player does (Mind has his own understanding that's different). With other Terran players presumably getting steamrolled in practice, it could be really hard to prepare for Flash.
Flash's build, which is 1-Fac into expansion into super fast tech, is very vulnerable to early game harrass due to Medusa's geography. Bisu absolutely raped him in one game with 2 shuttles ferrying in troops into his main.
Kal did not do enough damage with his early attack. Although I think a S-class PvTer like Bisu/Stork/Jangbi could've ended the game quite early.
Bisu did NOT rape him with 2 shuttles. The shuttle was a total blunder (even on his interview, he says it was a blunder). What bisu won was the lategame macro game.
Really? My mistake then. I could've swore Bisu did a ton of damage with that elevator attack.
Same here, I thought it lowered FlaSh's tank count a good amount but not sure if those even mattered in the late game
On February 11 2009 16:06 goliathoffline wrote: i think toss have better chance against flash on T favored maps than favorite maps
This honestly might be true. It seems like Flash understands TvP on a level that literally no other Terran player does (Mind has his own understanding that's different). With other Terran players presumably getting steamrolled in practice, it could be really hard to prepare for Flash.
Flash's build, which is 1-Fac into expansion into super fast tech, is very vulnerable to early game harrass due to Medusa's geography. Bisu absolutely raped him in one game with 2 shuttles ferrying in troops into his main.
Kal did not do enough damage with his early attack. Although I think a S-class PvTer like Bisu/Stork/Jangbi could've ended the game quite early.
Bisu did NOT rape him with 2 shuttles. The shuttle was a total blunder (even on his interview, he says it was a blunder). What bisu won was the lategame macro game.
Really? My mistake then. I could've swore Bisu did a ton of damage with that elevator attack.
No, infact bisu lost all his zealots, goons and shuttle while taking like 2 tanks out. Bisu did a bad tradeoff
bisu did some damage, but it wasnt lethal, in fact it wasnt even worth it. It was really close but flash's seperating tanks and keep certain tanks unsiege was just perfect counter.
both adding 3rd and 4th facs, and stuck there as they both lost their barracks. notice switching to tank gol as well. both wandering around with vulture gol tank armies, similar sizes.
armies both in the center high ground now, notice is sieged up.
flash runs around with vultures to try to counter but gets cuaght by notices own vultures. flash has 1 or 2 more but reinforcements force him off, equal losses. notice going up to 6 fac. both switching back to vulture tank now that they know what the other is doing. 6 fac for flash as well
On February 11 2009 16:06 goliathoffline wrote: i think toss have better chance against flash on T favored maps than favorite maps
This honestly might be true. It seems like Flash understands TvP on a level that literally no other Terran player does (Mind has his own understanding that's different). With other Terran players presumably getting steamrolled in practice, it could be really hard to prepare for Flash.
Flash's build, which is 1-Fac into expansion into super fast tech, is very vulnerable to early game harrass due to Medusa's geography. Bisu absolutely raped him in one game with 2 shuttles ferrying in troops into his main.
Kal did not do enough damage with his early attack. Although I think a S-class PvTer like Bisu/Stork/Jangbi could've ended the game quite early.
Bisu did NOT rape him with 2 shuttles. The shuttle was a total blunder (even on his interview, he says it was a blunder). What bisu won was the lategame macro game.
Really? My mistake then. I could've swore Bisu did a ton of damage with that elevator attack.
Same here, I thought it lowered FlaSh's tank count a good amount but not sure if those even mattered in the late game
iirc the double shuttle attack cost bisu far more than it did flash, it was pretty amazing defense, the most amazing thing being bisu eventually won the game. almost always when flash gets a decisive advantage like that he will roll the opponent.
At least 2 more facts going up for Flash as his units move out. Meanwhile, Notice rebuilds his rax and had thrown up 1-2 more facts before his first was taken down after unsuccesfully hiding from Flash's goliaths over a wall.
Standoff of armies in the centre of the map, seems Flash is outnumbered but is flanking with many vultures taking them out, but reinforcements in the form of more vultures arrive for Notice.
Despite this, he is driven back a small way and came out in the red in that encounter. His tanks and goliaths still stand in the middle while Flash continues surounding the army with vultures, planting mines towards their northern exit from the middle of the map. Notice seems to be blocking off an entrance to his expansion.
On February 11 2009 16:06 goliathoffline wrote: i think toss have better chance against flash on T favored maps than favorite maps
This honestly might be true. It seems like Flash understands TvP on a level that literally no other Terran player does (Mind has his own understanding that's different). With other Terran players presumably getting steamrolled in practice, it could be really hard to prepare for Flash.
Flash's build, which is 1-Fac into expansion into super fast tech, is very vulnerable to early game harrass due to Medusa's geography. Bisu absolutely raped him in one game with 2 shuttles ferrying in troops into his main.
Kal did not do enough damage with his early attack. Although I think a S-class PvTer like Bisu/Stork/Jangbi could've ended the game quite early.
Bisu did NOT rape him with 2 shuttles. The shuttle was a total blunder (even on his interview, he says it was a blunder). What bisu won was the lategame macro game.
Really? My mistake then. I could've swore Bisu did a ton of damage with that elevator attack.
Strange I also thought that shuttle harass with zeals did tons of damage to FlaSh tanks...
Flash raids Notice's natural expansion with vultures, which degenerates into a vulture on vulture melee once the SCV flee. Flash is coming out on top but Notice has high ground tank support. He still holds the centre but Flash is making a move, he has some leeway in terms of cuttong off reinforcements because of his early vulture and mine work.
On February 11 2009 16:06 goliathoffline wrote: i think toss have better chance against flash on T favored maps than favorite maps
This honestly might be true. It seems like Flash understands TvP on a level that literally no other Terran player does (Mind has his own understanding that's different). With other Terran players presumably getting steamrolled in practice, it could be really hard to prepare for Flash.
Flash's build, which is 1-Fac into expansion into super fast tech, is very vulnerable to early game harrass due to Medusa's geography. Bisu absolutely raped him in one game with 2 shuttles ferrying in troops into his main.
Kal did not do enough damage with his early attack. Although I think a S-class PvTer like Bisu/Stork/Jangbi could've ended the game quite early.
Bisu did NOT rape him with 2 shuttles. The shuttle was a total blunder (even on his interview, he says it was a blunder). What bisu won was the lategame macro game.
Really? My mistake then. I could've swore Bisu did a ton of damage with that elevator attack.
Strange I also thought that shuttle harass with zeals did tons of damage to FlaSh tanks...
If it was any other protoss except Jangbi/Stork/Bisu
The game would've been Flash's win. Its because it was Bisu that he recovered from that.
man notice shoulda be given a 2 minute head start. Flash is just a one man team. Well not as much as reach of course. So we'll just count flash and lux as one
Starport going up for Notice, a CC going up for Flash to the south of his main.
Flash is utilising his superior map presence to put pressure on Notice from several directions and form some semblance of a contain to further his map control. Expecting dropships to play into this soon.
flash runs like 12 vultures around and counters, notice has nothing there and loses quite a few scvs. notices vultures come back and clean it up.
flash attacking the center, takes 3 tanks and some random vultures for a couple of tanks as his own, keeps advancing. gains center control. notice got his 3rd up while the obs were nt paying attention. flash hasnt started his yet, a couple of vultures for notice kill his scv there, delaying it even more.
flash moving to attack notices 3rd but notice is ready with a couple of tanks and vultures.
flash has total control of the center high ground now so notice puts up a starport. flash starting his 3rd. moving a decent vulture tank army around to try to pressure notices 3rd, but notice is ready again so flash just extends his tank line to block off bottom right. notice is gonna have to do alot of damage with his first drops, flash gonna catch up in econ soon and hes contained hard.
flash going for drops himself and starting to turret.
notice trying to take the 12 exp, but flash already has tanks sieged behind the minline in his main.
notice tries to break out through the bottom right portion of the contain, on the low ground, makes a little progress but is stopped. roughly equal losses on both sides but flash still has his contain
Am I the only one who thinks FlaSh since his anti-carrier build on Katrina have really showed the importance of fast upgrades for TvP. FlaSh units always seems stronger than everyone else
Flash has his tanks set up at the temples as usual while Notice tries to stop the pressure mounting in the south but Flash has reinforcements from the centre close by. Flash lost a lot of vultures in the ensuing battle but it is unclear on who came out on top. The way is still blocked but Notice is contesting it well.
Flash has more reinforcements coming in. A lot more. Tanks.
Notice has 2 dropships out and is sending them up in support of his advancing vultures near the temple at Flash's base. Flash has around 4 tanks sieged guarding it. The vultures drive off Flash's presence at the northern ramp nearer Flash's base.
Notice now uses his dropships to assault the southern paths and seems to do well while FLash uses his own dropships to stall a Notice expansion at 11-12oclock.
notice gets his 4th gas up at 12, but cant mine the minerals. dropships out but no holes at the moment.
instead uses the ships to break the bottom right portion of the contain. more successful this time, has the bottom right expos opened up for now. but only 3 tanks defending them.
flash shuts down 12 with dropships of his own. someone was hiding an expo at 6 and had it shut down with vultures, i wasnt really watching.
notice taking bottom right, flash drops it with 2 ships. stops it for the moment. flash starting his 4th at bottom left.
notice going to clear bottom right with his own ships.
ebay coming up presumably for turrets in defence of the dropships. Notice commits his dropships to saving his expansion previously assaulted. Flash meanwhile hits another in-progress expansion using his dropships at 4-5oclock.
Notice succesfully clears bottom right but Flash withdraws to 6oclock to defend his CC. Notice is now contesting the centre with a considerable force, mine drops hurting Flash. Flash tries to reinforce and still holds the high ground but Notice has a lot of vital dropships.
I think Flash is messed up. He keep trying to contain and contain and Notice is breaking out farther and farther and doing a good job of gaining map control bit by bit. Notice isn't losing any dropships, the key to his mobility, because he's ahead in dropship count. (slightly).
flash drops bottom right again. 3 ships this time. has the main shut down for the moment.
it was flash expoing to 6, vultures left and he finished and secured it.
notice making a big break on the bottom portion of flashs contain. breaks through but reinforcements come up for flash, hes not going any further. flash still controls the high ground.
flash finishes his 5th at bottom left but 3 vultures for notice shut down the mining there and get a tank kill + a decent number of scvs. flash clears it and is now a base up, 5 to 4.
flash still controls the bottom right main too
notice kills flash's 6 with dropships.
nvm flash comes in with his own dropships and clears it.
notice is pretty much dead, flash has a way stronger standing army, better position, and a better econ.
Flash secures his 6oclock base with SCVs transferred, losing a couple to some rogue vultures. Notice takes exception to this and starts to take out the temple with tanks while dropping the expansion, which is defended only by 2 sieged tanks. Flash comes in defence with his own dropships and dusts up. Notice is forced back and now risks being countered. Meanwhile he sneaks some vultures into Flash's nat and does some small damage before being driven out. Mines in the ensuing chase take out a goliath.
Notice's attempt to regain control of the bottom position results in heavy losses to units and dropships and Flash has it covered with a ton of dropships of his own, looking for an opening now to take out some of Notice's exps.
He drops at the choke between two bases and takes out many SCVs. He has pincered Notice's few units near the centre as well as stopped reinforcement of his lower exps.
Flash Interview Read it, it is very, very, sad - You did 3 kills today, allowing you a win ▲ I was so nervous. But I am happy our team won with my win.
- Aren't you exhausted? ▲ I am very exhausted. But I won so I guess theres something to be happy about
- Your games today was absolutely brilliant ▲ I think everything is working out great these days. I keep telling myself "There is nothing to lose, I will be okay even if I lose" and it is working out okay.
- Your teammates aren't doing as well as people want them to. Do you feel more weighted by this? ▲ Yes I do feel as if much more weight is on me. But I try to ignore it and tell myself everyone did their best and it will be okay.
- You have 30 wins this season. ▲ My original goal was 44 wins this seasons, but I didn't expect myself to get 30 this fast... I will try harder getting 50 wins.
- Notice said he wanted to play a good TvT'r like you in the past interview ▲ I feel very honored. I feel happy that players want to play me. I wanted to play him too.
- People say you live in a slaved environment compared to your previous life. ▲ Actually it is the same. My health is better so I'm not getting mentally exhausted fast like before. I am trying to control my health more before there are better players these days. I think its because that there are so many good players I am trying harder.
- You still have many games this week ▲ I couldn't practice enough (only a day), so I will practice until I pass out. If I practice hard, I think the results will be okay.
- Shine is now in KTF ▲ I saw Shine play yesterday and he was really clean and good. In my honest opinion, I want everyone in KTF including me to absorb the OGN terran style. Shine came on Monday, but it feels like he is part of KTF already. He is in the same room as me so I want to become closer with him.
- Last words ▲ Shine Hyung came to KTF and I want all the KTF fans to give him a warm welcome. I wish Shine will become a greater player than he was in OGN. And I wish Luxury Hyung would help out Shine hyung more often, I heard they were friends too.
Lux Interview. Funny Luxury lol - You got 1 kill today ▲ I was 1 kill and 1 loss today to be exact. To be honest this feels like a Loser's Interview more than a Winner's Interview for me ;;.
- After your all kill, your performance kinda fell down ▲ I thought I would become the same player I was before when I did the all kill (laughs). That time everything worked so perfectly, but these days it seems like Im returning to my old self;;. I have to try harder
- You lost against Hwasin ▲ He read me perfectly. Everyone could tell he prepared his absolute best
- How are you going to prepare for your later games? ▲ We've beaten every team we had a bad score against. Every team we will be facing from now on are teams we can take. I will try harder now, and show the real me.
- Shine is now in KTF ▲ He knows my dark past so it is very stressful;; (laughs). That was a joke, and I am extremely happy. In the KTF house the rooms are split by races but I hope we get closer
- People are hoping for the stronger KTF line since the entry of Shine ▲ I think we will get stronger. Shine didn't show many broadcasted games but when we were practicing each on in OGN I can assure you he is a very good player.
- Are you helping out Shine get adjusted to KTF? ▲ I want to help him, but I don't think I am in any position to help someone out (laughs). He will understand. I think
- Last words? ▲ Shine keeps saying sparkys is "our" team and I want him to stop that (laughs). I want him to get his ass to the KTF line.
On February 11 2009 17:44 MrHoon wrote: - Your teammates aren't doing as well as people want them to. Do you feel more weighted by this? ▲ Yes I do feel as if much more weight is on me. But I try to ignore it and tell myself everyone did their best and it will be okay.
- You still have many games this week ▲ I couldn't practice enough (only a day), so I will practice until I pass out. If I practice hard, I think the results will be okay.
The more I watch Flash, the more I feel he deserves to be on a "real" team like Oz/Khan/T1. Considering his talent, he literally should be going down in history as arguably the best player ever.
On February 11 2009 17:44 MrHoon wrote: - Your teammates aren't doing as well as people want them to. Do you feel more weighted by this? ▲ Yes I do feel as if much more weight is on me. But I try to ignore it and tell myself everyone did their best and it will be okay.
- You still have many games this week ▲ I couldn't practice enough (only a day), so I will practice until I pass out. If I practice hard, I think the results will be okay.
The more I watch Flash, the more I feel he deserves to be on a "real" team like Oz/Khan/T1. Considering his talent, he literally should be going down in history as arguably the best player ever.
How many A-teamers are younger than Flash? Baby and..? It's really just crazy how good he is, and it's a shame that he has to have such a workload that could be stunting his Starleague potential. Over 65% in every matchup ... his "worst" matchup is TvP hahaha.
If Flash can dominate so hard with this kind of schedule just imagine what he could do if he was on a team where he didn't have to play multiple games every fucking proleague match.
But Flash is still young. Who knows maybe in the future the rest of KTF won't suck so bad and Flash can really dominate without being loaded down with these ridiculous schedules
On February 11 2009 21:25 ssystem wrote: If Flash can dominate so hard with this kind of schedule just imagine what he could do if he was on a team where he didn't have to play multiple games every fucking proleague match.
But Flash is still young. Who knows maybe in the future the rest of KTF won't suck so bad and Flash can really dominate without being loaded down with these ridiculous schedules
maybe playin` so much is actually good for some of the players, who knows...I was complainin` JD has to play way too much for OZ but then again... Anyway, Flash is playing really well these days
Gah KTF, can't you just give Flash at least one or two pre-set off days. Even if you lose, you would still have a semi-fresher player than the one you have now. It's like having your best pitcher pitch 3 games on a row with 2 days rest each, it might be good on the short run but your pitcher is going to start failing badly in the long run due to arm fatigue.
On February 12 2009 00:00 Apex wrote: Gah KTF, can't you just give Flash at least one or two pre-set off days. Even if you lose, you would still have a semi-fresher player than the one you have now. It's like having your best pitcher pitch 3 games on a row with 2 days rest each, it might be good on the short run but your pitcher is going to start failing badly in the long run due to arm fatigue.
its not like he wouldnt be playing 10 hrs at home anyway.
I dont see what the big deal is about having him play games everyday.
On February 12 2009 00:00 Apex wrote: Gah KTF, can't you just give Flash at least one or two pre-set off days. Even if you lose, you would still have a semi-fresher player than the one you have now. It's like having your best pitcher pitch 3 games on a row with 2 days rest each, it might be good on the short run but your pitcher is going to start failing badly in the long run due to arm fatigue.
its not like he wouldnt be playing 10 hrs at home anyway.
I dont see what the big deal is about having him play games everyday.
Its stranger that you can't see why playing everyday against top players won't burn him out
On February 12 2009 00:00 Apex wrote: Gah KTF, can't you just give Flash at least one or two pre-set off days. Even if you lose, you would still have a semi-fresher player than the one you have now. It's like having your best pitcher pitch 3 games on a row with 2 days rest each, it might be good on the short run but your pitcher is going to start failing badly in the long run due to arm fatigue.
its not like he wouldnt be playing 10 hrs at home anyway.
I dont see what the big deal is about having him play games everyday.
Its stranger that you can't see why playing everyday against top players won't burn him out
im sure he goes on pubs and plays hunters at home.
Give me a fucking break. ya theres more pressure in the games hes playing on television.....but you act as if hes going to ruin his shoulder or elbow or something. When pitchers get rest they go play golf and don throw a ball at all until a day or 2 before their next start. Flash plays bw 10 hrs a day.
On February 12 2009 00:00 Apex wrote: Gah KTF, can't you just give Flash at least one or two pre-set off days. Even if you lose, you would still have a semi-fresher player than the one you have now. It's like having your best pitcher pitch 3 games on a row with 2 days rest each, it might be good on the short run but your pitcher is going to start failing badly in the long run due to arm fatigue.
its not like he wouldnt be playing 10 hrs at home anyway.
I dont see what the big deal is about having him play games everyday.
Its stranger that you can't see why playing everyday against top players won't burn him out
im sure he goes on pubs and plays hunters at home.
Give me a fucking break. ya theres more pressure in the games hes playing on television.....but you act as if hes going to ruin his shoulder or elbow or something. When pitchers get rest they go play golf and don throw a ball at all until a day or 2 before their next start. Flash plays bw 10 hrs a day.
whoa there no need to throw a fit about how pitchers have it harder than progamers (pretty obvious who has it harder).
On February 12 2009 00:00 Apex wrote: Gah KTF, can't you just give Flash at least one or two pre-set off days. Even if you lose, you would still have a semi-fresher player than the one you have now. It's like having your best pitcher pitch 3 games on a row with 2 days rest each, it might be good on the short run but your pitcher is going to start failing badly in the long run due to arm fatigue.
its not like he wouldnt be playing 10 hrs at home anyway.
I dont see what the big deal is about having him play games everyday.
Ah, to be so young and not know the hardships of life. Be glad you're living such an easy life.
On February 12 2009 00:00 Apex wrote: Gah KTF, can't you just give Flash at least one or two pre-set off days. Even if you lose, you would still have a semi-fresher player than the one you have now. It's like having your best pitcher pitch 3 games on a row with 2 days rest each, it might be good on the short run but your pitcher is going to start failing badly in the long run due to arm fatigue.
its not like he wouldnt be playing 10 hrs at home anyway.
I dont see what the big deal is about having him play games everyday.
Its stranger that you can't see why playing everyday against top players won't burn him out
im sure he goes on pubs and plays hunters at home.
Give me a fucking break. ya theres more pressure in the games hes playing on television.....but you act as if hes going to ruin his shoulder or elbow or something. When pitchers get rest they go play golf and don throw a ball at all until a day or 2 before their next start. Flash plays bw 10 hrs a day.
Flash says he is exhausted. He looks exhausted. Coach acknowledges they are working him too much.The pressure and mental weight of practicing alone and performing with the team and fans hope on you and (also your pay check in individual leagues) are two different things, He does not need to wipe out before we can reach a consensus that flash is being overworked.
On February 11 2009 17:44 MrHoon wrote: Flash Interview Read it, it is very, very, sad
- Your games today was absolutely brilliant ▲ I think everything is working out great these days. I keep telling myself "There is nothing to lose, I will be okay even if I lose" and it is working out okay.
Translation: My team fails and I'm the only one who can get shit done, so even if I go down hard no one should complain.
On February 12 2009 00:00 Apex wrote: Gah KTF, can't you just give Flash at least one or two pre-set off days. Even if you lose, you would still have a semi-fresher player than the one you have now. It's like having your best pitcher pitch 3 games on a row with 2 days rest each, it might be good on the short run but your pitcher is going to start failing badly in the long run due to arm fatigue.
its not like he wouldnt be playing 10 hrs at home anyway.
I dont see what the big deal is about having him play games everyday.
Ah, to be so young and not know the hardships of life. Be glad you're living such an easy life.
hardships of life? Hes playing bw. Hes successful. Sure theres pressure.....but its still bw. You act as if its asking him to run a marathon or something. If he needed a complete break from bw thats a different story. But like I said its not like he wouldnt be playing anyway.
On February 12 2009 00:00 Apex wrote: Gah KTF, can't you just give Flash at least one or two pre-set off days. Even if you lose, you would still have a semi-fresher player than the one you have now. It's like having your best pitcher pitch 3 games on a row with 2 days rest each, it might be good on the short run but your pitcher is going to start failing badly in the long run due to arm fatigue.
its not like he wouldnt be playing 10 hrs at home anyway.
I dont see what the big deal is about having him play games everyday.
Ah, to be so young and not know the hardships of life. Be glad you're living such an easy life.
hardships of life? Hes playing bw. Hes successful. Sure theres pressure.....but its still bw. You act as if its asking him to run a marathon or something. If he needed a complete break from bw thats a different story. But like I said its not like he wouldnt be playing anyway.
How can anyone be a KTF fan seriously. This interview is just sad. I like Flash but KTF is such a fucking joke. I'm not even sure I'll enjoy the SKT-KTF rivalry so much from now on. Flash is worth it but KTF as a whole just isn't.
11 wins from Flash 6 wins from Luxury COMBINED 2 WINS FROM EVERYBODY ELSE
I'd like to see more from Hoejja, Tempest (even if he does screw up half the time, at least it's not all the time), and maybe 815/ Firefist. It seems like too many games are thrown away to Hery and Haran who have not won in ages.
KTF really has to make there other players step up and possibly give Flash a vacation. The amount that kid plays/works for his age is insane. I think flash dosn't celebrate his victories because he is to tired to do anything...
On February 12 2009 07:42 SimonB wrote: Stats for KTF so far in round 3:
11 wins from Flash 6 wins from Luxury COMBINED 2 WINS FROM EVERYBODY ELSE
I'd like to see more from Hoejja, Tempest (even if he does screw up half the time, at least it's not all the time), and maybe 815/ Firefist. It seems like too many games are thrown away to Hery and Haran who have not won in ages.
Lecaf isn't far behind, 8 wins from JD and HiyA each and 2 wins by everybody else (Lomo)
On February 12 2009 08:08 SimonB wrote: His ZvT is pretty pathetic, but everything else seems at least competent which is a lot more than you can about a lot of KTF players.
thats a funny statement because actually every zerg in Korea is "pathetic" at ZvT other than Jaedong and YellOw[ArnC]
the #3 ZvT ELO currently belongs to ToSky - who has played a total of 12 TvZ, none in 2009, and most against very low class terrans.
the #4 best ZvT player in the world according to ELO? type-b, with a fantastic 9-4 win against Terran.
so really Firefist is not that bad compared to his peers, especially with a fairly solid 8-11
On February 12 2009 10:50 Atrioc wrote: the #4 best ZvT player in the world according to ELO? type-b, with a fantastic 37.5% win against Terran.
I'm not gonna argue with the rest of your post, but type-b is actually 9-4 against terran.
fixed thanks
i think the point still stands though if he is rated the #4 best ZvT in the world with 9-4, while by comparison the #4 TvZ at the moment is Leta with a whopping 16-5 (76% win)
3 TvT in a row! That's so tiring for a Terran ace. Winner League, KTF might have a better chance of winning with Flash taking most of the wins. Sad that in this seies, Flash's teammate didn't took off the burden of AT LEAST ONE GAME!
On February 12 2009 13:42 [X]Ken_D wrote: 3 TvT in a row! That's so tiring for a Terran ace. Winner League, KTF might have a better chance of winning with Flash taking most of the wins. Sad that in this seies, Flash's teammate didn't took off the burden of AT LEAST ONE GAME!
KTF "Child labor" Flash fighting struggling!!
it wasnt 3 tvt in a row (if you speak about this match)
On February 12 2009 13:42 [X]Ken_D wrote: 3 TvT in a row! That's so tiring for a Terran ace. Winner League, KTF might have a better chance of winning with Flash taking most of the wins. Sad that in this seies, Flash's teammate didn't took off the burden of AT LEAST ONE GAME!
KTF "Child labor" Flash fighting struggling!!
it wasnt 3 tvt in a row (if you speak about this match)
whoops. wrong thread . I was reading the correct thread, but I don't know how I accidentally posted here.
EPT![[image loading]](http://data.fuskbugg.se/skalman01/proleaguefinal.png)
Calm < Sin Chupung-Ryeong > 
![[image loading]](http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/bitethewaxtadpole/child-labor.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9552/hwasinnh1.jpg)
