Mind is the last hope for wemade, CJs roster may not have ss class players at the moment but its so fucking well balanced when the T part plays at a reasonable level. My humble opinion CJ take this 80%.
On February 10 2009 17:21 malongo wrote: Mind is the last hope for wemade, CJs rooster may not have ss class players at the moment but its so fucking well balanced when the T part plays at a reasonable level. My humble opinion CJ take this 80%.
I just lol'd pretty hard at rooster for some reason. wtf is wrong with me?
On February 10 2009 17:21 malongo wrote: Mind is the last hope for wemade, CJs rooster may not have ss class players at the moment but its so fucking well balanced when the T part plays at a reasonable level. My humble opinion CJ take this 80%.
I just lol'd pretty hard at rooster for some reason. wtf is wrong with me?
they went over the G.O vs Pantech (final i think) where IPXZerg went 3-0 over like Silver and Goodfriend (and some other Terran) then lost to Nada, who then lost to ForU on Into the Darkness
Kwanro trying to end it fast, doesnt seem like its going to work out. Probably is going to get overrun in the next minutes. This seems sadly too familiar T_T
Sweet vult harass from Nada, Kwanro is looking worse and worse by the second, he's just throwing muta's away now to delay Nada. Just lost all his drones at his 2nd expansion.
I remember when I first got into SC and Nada was my favorite player. I didn't think anything could top the excitement of seeing him play. I thought my excitement would diminish over time, as I'd grow used to watching him play...
But fuck, I can't believe how happy I am watching Nada rape. If he all-kills CJ I will seriously freak out.
Andromeda is a good map for m&m, I don't think Nada is going mech. The thing with Chupung is that defending your expo there from muta harass is hard while on Andromeda you can cover your expo from your main. I think Nada will go for a 1 barracks cc build.
On February 10 2009 18:33 Zzoram wrote: man the MBC commentators are jokes
how do you know? do you even speak korean?
You don't really have to know korean to understand MARINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA GEEEEEEEEEGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
On February 10 2009 18:33 Zzoram wrote: man the MBC commentators are jokes
how do you know? do you even speak korean?
You don't really have to know korean to understand MARINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA GEEEEEEEEEGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Basically. The MBC commentators just seem to be having such a great time, and they get so enthusiastic and yell out english words.
On February 10 2009 18:37 Frits wrote: Andromeda is a good map for m&m, I don't think Nada is going mech. The thing with Chupung is that defending your expo there from muta harass is hard while on Andromeda you can cover your expo from your main. I think Nada will go for a 1 barracks cc build.
On February 10 2009 18:33 Zzoram wrote: man the MBC commentators are jokes
how do you know? do you even speak korean?
You don't really have to know korean to understand MARINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA GEEEEEEEEEGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
On February 10 2009 18:52 ZoW wrote: Holy crap effort is good... he saw that small opening nada left and just went all out ...
T_T Savior vs nada will have to wait
On February 10 2009 18:51 Shikyo wrote: Really, really good play by Effort.
On February 10 2009 18:54 Ash wrote: holy fucking shit ... effort is good. CJ is a sick team in this format
Guys, I hate to break it to you, but countering an empty Terran natural when Terran moves out is a D+ level play. Don't get your panties in a knot. Nada simply made an EXTREMELY silly mistake. That didn't make Effort good, it made Nada temporarily bad.
Uh Effort is kinda better than savior you know....well I suppose equal is more fair, savior having more experience and effort having better technical abilities.
On February 10 2009 18:54 Ash wrote: holy fucking shit ... effort is good. CJ is a sick team in this format
Guys, I hate to break it to you, but countering an empty Terran natural when Terran moves out is a D+ level play. Don't get your panties in a knot. Nada simply made an EXTREMELY silly mistake. That didn't make Effort good, it made Nada temporarily bad.
also after analyzing the replay, the commentators said that nada messed up because he needed to attacking with proper timing right before ultralisks popped but his supply got stuck. so he needed to make a decision whether to move out now or miss his timing window. obviously we saw what happened
On February 10 2009 18:57 mog87 wrote: Uh Effort is kinda better than savior you know....well I suppose equal is more fair, savior having more experience and effort having better technical abilities.
On February 10 2009 18:54 Ash wrote: holy fucking shit ... effort is good. CJ is a sick team in this format
Guys, I hate to break it to you, but countering an empty Terran natural when Terran moves out is a D+ level play. Don't get your panties in a knot. Nada simply made an EXTREMELY silly mistake. That didn't make Effort good, it made Nada temporarily bad.
Efforts mutalisk harrass was really good, and the counter's timing was good as well, as well as everything else, as was his macro and drone timing, as was his hatchery timing and defense of the expansion. Yawn.
Forgot to mention, his muta pulling was great as well.
On February 10 2009 19:00 ZoW wrote: But even if Nada stayed in his base, Ultras were about 2 minutes away. What could he have done? He would have gotten run over anyways...
He missed his timing window, the analysis is above. Still seems like it's mostly a self-implosion (albeit one enabled by effort's really solid play).
On February 10 2009 18:52 ZoW wrote: Holy crap effort is good... he saw that small opening nada left and just went all out ...
T_T Savior vs nada will have to wait
On February 10 2009 18:51 Shikyo wrote: Really, really good play by Effort.
On February 10 2009 18:54 Ash wrote: holy fucking shit ... effort is good. CJ is a sick team in this format
Guys, I hate to break it to you, but countering an empty Terran natural when Terran moves out is a D+ level play. Don't get your panties in a knot. Nada simply made an EXTREMELY silly mistake. That didn't make Effort good, it made Nada temporarily bad.
Efforts mutalisk harrass was really good, and the counter's timing was good as well, as well as everything else, as was his macro and drone timing, as was his hatchery timing and defense of the expansion. Yawn.
Effort's mutalisk harrass was progamer level. Nothing above. The build was good and well executed and the defense of the expansion was also strong.
That being said, winning the game the way he did simply didn't display anything spectacular to warrant such comments. He didn't do anything special, he just abused a huge mistake by Nada.
On February 10 2009 18:54 Ash wrote: holy fucking shit ... effort is good. CJ is a sick team in this format
Guys, I hate to break it to you, but countering an empty Terran natural when Terran moves out is a D+ level play. Don't get your panties in a knot. Nada simply made an EXTREMELY silly mistake. That didn't make Effort good, it made Nada temporarily bad.
I don't see it that way. I think Nada realized he was taking a risk, but he probably thought he had to since he was up against 4 base hive zerg still with almost all his mutalisks.
Did Effort even see that Nada moved almost his entire army toward the bottom left corner? It looked to me like Nada tried to get out as quickly as he can so he wouldn't be seen. Effort might have just gotten phenomenally lucky to attack at just the right time.
On February 10 2009 18:52 ZoW wrote: Holy crap effort is good... he saw that small opening nada left and just went all out ...
T_T Savior vs nada will have to wait
On February 10 2009 18:51 Shikyo wrote: Really, really good play by Effort.
On February 10 2009 18:54 Ash wrote: holy fucking shit ... effort is good. CJ is a sick team in this format
Guys, I hate to break it to you, but countering an empty Terran natural when Terran moves out is a D+ level play. Don't get your panties in a knot. Nada simply made an EXTREMELY silly mistake. That didn't make Effort good, it made Nada temporarily bad.
I don't see it that way. I think Nada realized he was taking a risk, but he probably thought he had to since he was up against 4 base hive zerg still with almost all his mutalisks.
Did Effort even see that Nada moved almost his entire army toward the bottom left corner? It looked to me like Nada tried to get out as quickly as he can so he wouldn't be seen. Effort might have just gotten phenomenally lucky to attack at just the right time.
There were a few issues. He got supply stuck. He was probably relying on fresh troops to enforce his defense and it turned out he got supply stuck.
If Effort didn't see Nada move out, then he was extremely lucky. If he did see Nada move out, it wouldn't take a progamer to see that as a time to attack.
He was against 3 gas fast hive, no lurkers. Which means there is a huge timing to push. Nada got supply stuck and moved out at a silly time and lost his main.
On February 10 2009 18:52 ZoW wrote: Holy crap effort is good... he saw that small opening nada left and just went all out ...
T_T Savior vs nada will have to wait
On February 10 2009 18:51 Shikyo wrote: Really, really good play by Effort.
On February 10 2009 18:54 Ash wrote: holy fucking shit ... effort is good. CJ is a sick team in this format
Guys, I hate to break it to you, but countering an empty Terran natural when Terran moves out is a D+ level play. Don't get your panties in a knot. Nada simply made an EXTREMELY silly mistake. That didn't make Effort good, it made Nada temporarily bad.
Efforts mutalisk harrass was really good, and the counter's timing was good as well, as well as everything else, as was his macro and drone timing, as was his hatchery timing and defense of the expansion. Yawn.
Effort's mutalisk harrass was progamer level. Nothing above. The build was good and well executed and the defense of the expansion was also strong.
That being said, winning the game the way he did simply didn't display anything spectacular to warrant such comments. He didn't do anything special, he just abused a huge mistake by Nada.
Actually, the muta harrass was better than many progamers I've seen. In any case, it's silly to assume I'd judge the game just by the moment he won the game, although that was really well performed as well. And it definitely warrants such comments in my opinion.
On February 10 2009 18:52 ZoW wrote: Holy crap effort is good... he saw that small opening nada left and just went all out ...
T_T Savior vs nada will have to wait
On February 10 2009 18:51 Shikyo wrote: Really, really good play by Effort.
On February 10 2009 18:54 Ash wrote: holy fucking shit ... effort is good. CJ is a sick team in this format
Guys, I hate to break it to you, but countering an empty Terran natural when Terran moves out is a D+ level play. Don't get your panties in a knot. Nada simply made an EXTREMELY silly mistake. That didn't make Effort good, it made Nada temporarily bad.
I don't see it that way. I think Nada realized he was taking a risk, but he probably thought he had to since he was up against 4 base hive zerg still with almost all his mutalisks.
Did Effort even see that Nada moved almost his entire army toward the bottom left corner? It looked to me like Nada tried to get out as quickly as he can so he wouldn't be seen. Effort might have just gotten phenomenally lucky to attack at just the right time.
There were a few issues. He got supply stuck. He was probably relying on fresh troops to enforce his defense and it turned out he got supply stuck.
If Effort didn't see Nada move out, then he was extremely lucky. If he did see Nada move out, it wouldn't take a progamer to see that as a time to attack.
He was against 3 gas fast hive, no lurkers. Which means there is a huge timing to push. Nada got supply stuck and moved out at a silly time and lost his main.
The timing against the haran build (Mutalisk into Ultra) is not easy to hit. Especially on Andromeda where bases are far apart its really hard for Terran to use the small timing window you have. I'm not saying this because I'm a NaDa fanboy. He clearly made the wrong decision with moving out and leaving nothing behind. He could have stayed in his base and maybe abuse drops and tanks on his cliff to defend against ultra. I don't know.
EffOrt won because he played better and with less mistakes. GG.
So....why did RorO spend all of his time chasing zerglings around the middle of the map when he could have been dancing in and out of spore fire and devastating EffOrt's economy? Seems like he just waited around to die.
I could have swore effort was fucked when his ling attack failed miserably accomplishing nothing. I guess it was just 1 hatch vs 2 and he still had superior ling count and the mutas literally were like at 8 for roro, 0 for effort, and roro couldn't do ANYTHING with them.
lol they keep on sending out Zergs, I guess they want to keep Mind in reserve and have no confidence in their protoss line up against efforts ZvP. Its a bit sad really.
On February 10 2009 19:23 NahLGaE wrote: theyre really freaking saving mind arent they? --a
its all kill time for effort ;o
I agree, I think this strategy of saving the best player for last is almost riskier than taking a chance at him losing early/getting sniped. I mean, by the time Mind gets into the booth EffOrt is going to be riding a surge in confidence and have 3 warmup games under his belt...I think if WL has taught me one thing, it's that most Progamers play way, way better when they have had a few games to warm up and get into their "zone". sAviOr mentioned this specifically in his interview after CJ's last match.
On February 10 2009 19:26 Choros wrote: Almost every time I have seen spore colonies zvz the spore colony going player has lost. You gotta be good to get away with resorting to spores imo.
And every time a player loses their nex/cc they lose. You gotta be good to get away with losing your nex imo.
On February 10 2009 19:27 o[twist] wrote: Even if they didn't want to use Mind they could have thrown Pure or Hero or Baby or someone.
maybe they dont think anyone else can beat effort cept in zvz. hoping they can get him with a somewhat more luck or throwup based zvz than others possibly? ;o still pretty odd to send out zvz in tau...
On February 10 2009 19:35 x89titan wrote: another bo win
wtf are you talking about? effort had the advantageous build by far because he went quick lair and keke didn't send his lings directly because he was scared of a direct 9ps build. effort was just too greedy and didn't get lings early enough.
On February 10 2009 19:35 x89titan wrote: another bo win
wtf are you talking about? effort had the advantageous build by far because he went quick lair and keke didn't send his lings directly because he was scared of a direct 9ps build. effort was just too greedy and didn't get lings early enough.
Maybe insufficient lings is a "build order" though
He needed a tech switch to mutas somehow after taking down the armory, I almost expected to see a spire half-finished. Not sure why that game lasted that long, probably because of his mom.
why does everyone seem to make a big deal out of teams resting players when they have starleague matches coming up? it might be a reason, but why? if these guys are playing like 30 games a day or something in practice, what's one tv match? i can understand it in extreme cases like flash, but if cj plays iris over savior for the final game assuming they need it, that seems to be insane
On February 10 2009 20:16 benjammin wrote: serious question:
why does everyone seem to make a big deal out of teams resting players when they have starleague matches coming up? it might be a reason, but why? if these guys are playing like 30 games a day or something in practice, what's one tv match? i can understand it in extreme cases like flash, but if cj plays iris over savior for the final game assuming they need it, that seems to be insane
maybe idra can shed some light on this
Stress of having to win
Loss of confidence if they lose
Less time to practice if they split their practice time
If they don't, they'll be even less prepared for the proleague match
On February 10 2009 20:16 benjammin wrote: serious question:
why does everyone seem to make a big deal out of teams resting players when they have starleague matches coming up? it might be a reason, but why? if these guys are playing like 30 games a day or something in practice, what's one tv match? i can understand it in extreme cases like flash, but if cj plays iris over savior for the final game assuming they need it, that seems to be insane
maybe idra can shed some light on this
It's not that they're being rested, it's that they've been practicing for the starleague and not PL.
sign said something about he just got his paycheck and then i couldnt read the rest quickly enough. i assume its something like he bet it all on mind or he's willing to give it all up or something like that >< meh cant pause live lol >>
On February 10 2009 20:16 benjammin wrote: serious question:
why does everyone seem to make a big deal out of teams resting players when they have starleague matches coming up? it might be a reason, but why? if these guys are playing like 30 games a day or something in practice, what's one tv match? i can understand it in extreme cases like flash, but if cj plays iris over savior for the final game assuming they need it, that seems to be insane
maybe idra can shed some light on this
It's not necessarily about rest as in like, physical rest that an athlete might want. There's the issue of momentum (which might be especially relevant in Savior's case), and also not diverting a player practicing the same matchup and map for possibly days in a row (especially seeing as how MSL is only playing 1 game this week). Plus, perhaps CJ doesn't want to show UpMagic ANYTHING about Savior's current ZvT playstyle.
On February 10 2009 20:22 NahLGaE wrote: sign said something about he just got his paycheck and then i couldnt read the rest quickly enough. i assume its something like he bet it all on mind or he's willing to give it all up or something like that >< meh cant pause live lol >>
Mind's vultures run into an undefended nat forcing the scvs away, Mind lays some mines before fleeing from some vultures and a sieged tank. Mind looks to be ahead.
mind has his 3rd up and running, skyhigh sends 3 tanks to siege it up and somehow keeps them alive against a control group of vultures trying to get up the ramp
mind again trying to break the push, but skyhighs wraith continue to annoy him. mind brings a bunch of goliath and finally kill the wraith. skyhigh expoing at 11
but skyhigh sends 2 dropships worth of units to siege it right back up again... which turns into 5 tanks and 2 gols total mind had built a cc to float to the top right main and is using it to spot,
Wow CJ is becoming a very strong team!!! Even without Savior, Xellos, Iris, Darkelf and Much it is damn strong! This new generation of CJ players (Kwanro, Effort and Skyhigh) is worth CJ elders.
On February 10 2009 21:16 Bifur wrote: Wow CJ is becoming a very strong team!!! Even without Savior, Xellos, Iris, Darkelf and Much it is damn strong! This new generation of CJ players (Kwanro, Effort and Skyhigh) is worth CJ elders.
On February 10 2009 21:16 Bifur wrote: Wow CJ is becoming a very strong team!!! Even without Savior, Xellos, Iris, Darkelf and Much it is damn strong! This new generation of CJ players (Kwanro, Effort and Skyhigh) is worth CJ elders.
The only teams that can beat CJ are SKT, KTF, and Hwaseung it seems. They didn't play yet and CJ is still undefeated but those are the only ones who will be able to at least have a chance of beat them...
On February 11 2009 01:35 o3.power91 wrote: The only teams that can beat CJ are SKT, KTF, and Hwaseung it seems. They didn't play yet and CJ is still undefeated but those are the only ones who will be able to at least have a chance of beat them...
u don`t know...starcraft is gettin` really unpredictable. Maybe Mumyung decides he's had enough of it and all-kills CJ
On February 11 2009 01:35 o3.power91 wrote: The only teams that can beat CJ are SKT, KTF, and Hwaseung it seems. They didn't play yet and CJ is still undefeated but those are the only ones who will be able to at least have a chance of beat them...
u don`t know...starcraft is gettin` really unpredictable. Maybe Mumyung decides he's had enough of it and all-kills CJ
In the greatest of luck Mumyung can probably only beat maximum 2 players from CJ , but him beating anyone at CJ's level is highly impossible .
CJ is by far the most stacked up team in PL right now with all players A - class and above , and are perfectly capable of killing eny S - class players Savior semi all - killing OGN and their ACEs and also estro were a little problem for him either . With Savior back in form their zerg line - up seems the strongest with Savior Effort and Kwanro , their terran line - up is no joke either with Iris and Skyhigh i would say the only thing keeping them back is Much being in a slump and Movie filling in for him decently well . If he gets his shit back together and starts raping in PvT and PvP no one can touch CJ in PL . Even if someone on CJ losses there are like 5 potential good players in PL backing him up .
Good to see the best case scenario come true: NaDa gets one win closer to 100 proleague victories (he's at 94 now) and CJ still wins the match in the end.
I think the reason CJ is doing well is that they have a pretty deep lineup. They've got two great zergs (Effort, Savior), two solid Terrans (Iris, Skyhigh) and Movie for Protoss.
On February 11 2009 05:41 Shiznick wrote: I think the reason CJ is doing well is that they have a pretty deep lineup. They've got two great zergs (Effort, Savior), two solid Terrans (Iris, Skyhigh) and Movie for Protoss.
On February 11 2009 01:35 o3.power91 wrote: The only teams that can beat CJ are SKT, KTF, and Hwaseung it seems. They didn't play yet and CJ is still undefeated but those are the only ones who will be able to at least have a chance of beat them...
Yeah, fOru, Rage, and Sunny get out of ACE in like two months, so Much has been scaling back in his playtime lately, just like XellOs did before he got accepted into ACE. I'd be astonished if he turned out to be a major contributor through the rest of the season, and I expect he'll be #1 on the list for new Air Force recruits this spring.
On February 11 2009 05:41 Shiznick wrote: I think the reason CJ is doing well is that they have a pretty deep lineup. They've got two great zergs (Effort, Savior), two solid Terrans (Iris, Skyhigh) and Movie for Protoss.
EPT![[image loading]](http://data.fuskbugg.se/skalman01/proleaguefinal.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/9.jpg)
VS ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/7.jpg)
Kwanro < Sin Chupung-Ryeong > 
NaDa
![[image loading]](http://www.mymym.com/gfx/nada-savior-osl1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.playsc.com/bbs/attachments/ext_jpg/nada_Z5ytBoY6OMZM.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://earthscience.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/tornado.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/EHSRM/EMERGENCY/tornado_warning.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.mymym.com/gfx/savior-wall-small.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.seven22.org/Resources56543522221/Images/010808/TransitionMySaviorLives.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk128/KnightOfNi17/nal_kekesbest.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/7498/faceplant065qm.jpg)
