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100% agree with gngfn there. Only thing more unbelievable than how bad balanced TvP Medusa is are people who try to deny it.
Just look at two BO3s - Mind vs Kal in GOM and Leta vs BestGod in OSL. Both Terrans got crushed on Medusa but completely ouperformed their opponents on rest of the maps.
On January 13 2009 14:49 gngfn wrote:
Mind is also one of the smartest players, well-known for coming up with studied strategies that perfectly suit the maps he's playing on.
That was perfectly obvious in game 1 vs Kal on Neo Requiem. This map is also a total bitch in TvP, but Mind's BO worked great here. How come he wasn't able to think out anything on Medusa? Maybe there isn't anything to think out in the first place...
Leta vs BestGod is selfexplanatory. In his last ten games, BestGod won only against go.go (who is terrible vs P) and against Leta on Medusa.
But what really drives me crazy isn't the fact that Medusa is such a shitty map. Even the best mapmaker can do a terrible map once in a while. But why the hell is Medusa used over and over again? In Proleague, in GOM, in current OSL, in last MSL. Why? Why haven't anybody made Medusa 1.1 already and tried to fix same balance problems?
Do people expect Terrans will go M&M and Battlecruisers there or what?
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KTF should use their money to buy another team ace for R3. Flash can't 4-0 every match and Luxury can't zvp.
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Dont want to blame it on maps but it would be nice if center for medusa was buildable.
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On January 13 2009 12:31 Atrioc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 12:18 IdrA wrote:
no part of that post made sense
zergs will start beating mech as soon as they get their heads out of their asses
terrans can still win with mnm
theres not plenty of good zergs. theres 2
its not an era of t>z, its a new build that hasnt been worked out yet Seems a bit hypocritical./suspect to make a ton of posts saying how difficult TvP is and then completely disregard any evidence that the same difficulty exists for ZvT.
indeed it would
thats why i didnt disregard evidence, i pointed out that the 'evidence' he was referencing was invalid.
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Do any of you really know what you are talking about or do you like big text walls?
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Losing PvT on Medusa is a shame. Nearly impossible to lose.
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On January 13 2009 21:52 Zoler wrote:
Losing PvT on Medusa is a shame. Nearly impossible to lose.
shut the f...
Retarted statement really.
Is the map really that imbalanced ? To me it seems more like bisu has figured out how to beat flahs strategy: Try to harrass from the beginning on and trade units. Even if you lose more units thant the Terran it wont matter as long as u keep him quite low on units, too. In the meantime you take the map while trading units until u have massive gateways and can produce many groups of units fast...
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and what i forgot: Bisus play recently. vs Terran and especially those games vs flash where in my opinion just starcraft on almost another level..
quite pushing the game.. I think this is pretty close to what we can call perfect play..
I dont think any big improvements are possible when i look at these games..
really.. Bisu just played great..
Id say the map was the least deciding factor.. and if it played a bigger role
let me assure u: Not as big as many flash fans here want it to be..
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Why is Bisu such a fucking pimp?
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rofl at everyone trying to downplay the map. And others completely ignoring the map imbalance and just talking about ZvT.
Yeah because TvZ is "imba" that means Flash losing to Bisu on an imbalanced TvP map makes Bisu that much more pimp. The people posting about why Medusa is imbalanced actually give sound arguments for why the map sucks ass... the people ignoring the map balance just talk about ZvT and how perfect Bisu played.
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It's just retarted to blame the map. I'm 100% sure there is no map which has such a big impact on any match up right now, that if u A) come up with the perfect strategy/ counter B) Play as close to perfect as possible C) your opponent doesnt play like a god .. cant win.
Bisu played so good. It's not like the map was the main factor for his win. It just was not.
And I just want people to accept this:
Additionally: How long did people blame many many maps on PvZ being so horribly hard for the P ?
Until Bisu came up and revolutionized this match up thats what the majority did..
Dont get too fast on calling a map horribly imbalanced just because the first few games ( under 50 games ) are showing a certrain trend..
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[ ]flash lost because he didnt practice
[ ]flash lost because he had fever
[ ]flash lost because medusa is imba (despite he beat bisu twice on it)
[x]flash lost because bisu played better
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On January 13 2009 21:52 Zoler wrote:
Losing PvT on Medusa is a shame. Nearly impossible to lose.
Q_Q Gives horrid PvT players like me a chance. Shame I don't ever play this map, I must start! :-D
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On January 14 2009 02:50 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
[ ]flash lost because he didnt practice
[ ]flash lost because he had fever
[ ]flash lost because medusa is imba (despite he beat bisu twice on it)
[x]flash lost because bisu played better
#2
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On January 14 2009 02:50 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
[ ]flash lost because he didnt practice
[ ]flash lost because he had fever
[ ]flash lost because medusa is imba (despite he beat bisu twice on it)
[x]flash lost because bisu played better
agreed, but that one time where he beat Bisu was through a backdoor cheese which will only work once.
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On January 14 2009 02:50 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
[ ]flash lost because he didnt practice
[ ]flash lost because he had fever
[ ]flash lost because medusa is imba (despite he beat bisu twice on it)
[x]flash lost because bisu was protoss
agreed, P >>>>>>> T >>>>>> Z
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This made me lol:
Medusa has so many different elements combining to make TvP almost impossible that Protoss can do almost anything on the map and still win.
And then in the very next paragraph:
Before the TLPD crew starts quoting Flash's amazing 6-0 record on the map prior to this game, maybe you should take into account that of those six wins, one was a bunker rush cheese against Bisu, two were against Rock, one was against Jaehoon, who attempted some kind of inexplicable DT opening, and one was versus SangHo, who went two-base carriers.
I thought the Protoss could do anything on the map and still win?
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On January 14 2009 07:40 Sentenal wrote:This made me lol: Show nested quote +Medusa has so many different elements combining to make TvP almost impossible that Protoss can do almost anything on the map and still win. And then in the very next paragraph: Show nested quote +Before the TLPD crew starts quoting Flash's amazing 6-0 record on the map prior to this game, maybe you should take into account that of those six wins, one was a bunker rush cheese against Bisu, two were against Rock, one was against Jaehoon, who attempted some kind of inexplicable DT opening, and one was versus SangHo, who went two-base carriers. I thought the Protoss could do anything on the map and still win?
can do "almost" anything not anything
and it was a combination of both significant map imbalance and bisu's phenomenal play, flash defended superbly against bisus dual shuttle play
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....
ktf willingly sent flash out on medusa. they must have felt comfortable with the disadvantages of the map.
who knows what the fuck will happen if they meet again on a different map, but from their last 4 games it's pretty clear that bisu is just playing the matchup better right now.
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EPT
