On December 29 2008 17:46 AttackZerg wrote: After jaedong vs bisu last week, I feel so so so bad for hyvaa. No mortal zerg is going to beat bisu.
Neo Requiem isn't really a standard map though. Not certain it fits Bisu's comfort zone PvZ.
Bisu is one of those bastard protoss that are even better on unique maps. He finds the smallest things to abuse, times his builds perfectly, and more or less auto-wins.
If hyvaa makes it far enough at some point a shuttle full of dts+ zealots should find its way into his main or third base, effectively ending his game prematurely.
[P]SangHo > [P]BeSt - I say it! SangHo got some advice from NoNy. [Z]maGma > [Z]s2 - maGma ez! [Z]hyvaa < [P]Bisu - no comment [T]Really < [T]FanTaSy - FanTaSy is like Samson - the longer his hair is, the better he plays. Unless he had gotten a haircut, he'll rape Really. [P]SangHo > [P]BeSt/[P]Bisu/[T]FanTaSy
Just realized that Best is only 5:5 in his last ten PvP. Who would believe it a couple months ago... So I guess Sangho has better shot on this that many people would think.
G_G me being a new member, so I'll try to condense my posts better....
So after Sangho kills a nice pocket of Best's probes, he engages at Best's nat. He has more goons than Best, but Best's reaver placement/micro is good enough to hold. Best's nat is up before Sangho's...
After a small break, Best pushes out with shuttle, x2 reavers and armies engage at Sangho's nat. Best with good reaver shots forces a retreat by killing off Sangho's reaver.
With more goons and reavers, Best forces a GG from Sangho.
They must be really shooting themselves for trading away july and not treating him better since hes now since he left gone 8-4 in PL and got himself an osl title.
and... I'm back after my computer decided to freeze...
s2 goes greater spire as hive finishes and has multiple spore colonies defending his bases as magma accumulates a massive mutalisk force. s2 morphs to devourers
You know, this is kind of strangely on the fringe of viability. Get enough devos your spores start racking up huge damage on the muta... devos are almost impossible to kill with spores sitting there. Then again, the other zerg could just expand.
On December 29 2008 19:20 KreaGata wrote: What a wild game.
More like a boring unexpected game...
Yeah, pretty boring. Perhaps I should have said bizarre.
Boring?!?!?!?1 That was one of the most exciting ZvZ's... save jaedong vs savior one from way back and any match jaedong plays but this one tops the zvz's in proleague (in terms of seeing actual thought process rather than better micro/apm)
On December 29 2008 19:20 KreaGata wrote: What a wild game.
More like a boring unexpected game...
Yeah, pretty boring. Perhaps I should have said bizarre.
Boring?!?!?!?1 That was one of the most exciting ZvZ's... save jaedong vs savior one from way back and any match jaedong plays but this one tops the zvz's in proleague (in terms of seeing actual thought process rather than better micro/apm)
Boring in the sense that although it went hive tech, it was obvious that magma had a decisive advantage the whole time.
On December 29 2008 19:30 KreaGata wrote: Yes, just because ZvZ reaches hive tech doesn't make it exciting. Both players played a boring game, and not much interesting happened.
On December 29 2008 19:20 KreaGata wrote: What a wild game.
More like a boring unexpected game...
Yeah, pretty boring. Perhaps I should have said bizarre.
Boring?!?!?!?1 That was one of the most exciting ZvZ's... save jaedong vs savior one from way back and any match jaedong plays but this one tops the zvz's in proleague (in terms of seeing actual thought process rather than better micro/apm)
Boring in the sense that although it went hive tech, it was obvious that magma had a decisive advantage the whole time.
Yes you do have a point there but S2 DID have an advantage at one point (but i'm also pretty tipsy at the moment) but it's good to see more and more zergs try to d against mutas and try to reach a higher tech than usual... I've been seeing more (not frequently but more) lately... and this is the most tech i've seen in zvz except for non proleague matches
On December 29 2008 19:20 KreaGata wrote: What a wild game.
More like a boring unexpected game...
Yeah, pretty boring. Perhaps I should have said bizarre.
Boring?!?!?!?1 That was one of the most exciting ZvZ's... save jaedong vs savior one from way back and any match jaedong plays but this one tops the zvz's in proleague (in terms of seeing actual thought process rather than better micro/apm)
Boring in the sense that although it went hive tech, it was obvious that magma had a decisive advantage the whole time.
Yes you do have a point there but S2 DID have an advantage at one point (but i'm also pretty tipsy at the moment) but it's good to see more and more zergs try to d against mutas and try to reach a higher tech than usual... I've been seeing more (not frequently but more) lately... and this is the most tech i've seen in zvz except for non proleague matches
Just to make the long story short... I'm glad it wasn't mutas/scourge vs muta/scourge..... Or lings vs lings.... or lings vs mutas! that is all.... I'm glad zvz in progames has somewhat evolved.... though it may be only this match I for see more longterm zvz matches
No idea about spell damage, but I heard that every acid spore adds -1 armor, and you can have up to 9 acid spores on a single unit for a total of -9. Never tested it though
183 was a typo. I meant 112 + 9*8 = 184. And I just tested it, and it does 184 damage to a unit with 9 spores. Testing spore + irradiate will be much harder.
On December 29 2008 19:25 darktreb wrote: Did you know - if a unit has acid spores on it it will take more spell damage (like Psi Storm does more)
i thought psi storm ignored armour anyway. how much more damage does it do?
Don't remember exactly, I think it maxes out at like 189 with 9 spores. The reason is that Acid Spores are applied in a weird way that's not quite exactly the same as minus armor. Psi Storm is applied in 9 waves of like 12 damage or something like that and so each wave gets +1 for each spore, so in theory it should max out at 9*(12+9) = 189
EDIT: Never mind, got a few numbers wrong and person above me did the testing. Psi Storm does 8 waves of 14 for 112 base and so it can gain at most 8*9 = 72 for 184 total
On December 29 2008 19:41 LonelyMargarita wrote: Speaking of lag...Daum sports endlessly buffering for others? It gets up to about 24% then starts over, ad nauseum.
you need to refresh the page, and make sure the innitial buffering doesn't take more than three seconds.
On December 29 2008 19:41 LonelyMargarita wrote: Speaking of lag...Daum sports endlessly buffering for others? It gets up to about 24% then starts over, ad nauseum.
Once this happens, you just have to keep refreshing until you hit a good stream.
On December 29 2008 19:41 LonelyMargarita wrote: Speaking of lag...Daum sports endlessly buffering for others? It gets up to about 24% then starts over, ad nauseum.
Hey so while we're between games, I'm super curious about something. I'm new to the pro scene, and I was wondering why at the beginning of the games the commentator has to ally themselves with one of the players (and sometimes neither?) Sorry if this is obvious, I'm new!
sadstuffs, I can't get my stream to work. =( I always used to use Corinthos' but since he started hosting them on that site they don't work for me anymore.
On December 29 2008 19:50 KizZBG wrote: I'm confused what could have hyvaa done? What is zerg supposed to do on this map? (yeah my SC knowledge is piss poor :p)
On December 29 2008 19:51 SteveStyle wrote: Hey so while we're between games, I'm super curious about something. I'm new to the pro scene, and I was wondering why at the beginning of the games the commentator has to ally themselves with one of the players (and sometimes neither?) Sorry if this is obvious, I'm new!
The commentators only ally one player if it is a mirror match-up.
After allying a player, the circle on selected units/buildings turn yellow (vs. red), and this better distinguishes the two players playing the same race.
On December 29 2008 19:50 KizZBG wrote: I'm confused what could have hyvaa done? What is zerg supposed to do on this map? (yeah my SC knowledge is piss poor :p)
hard to say vs bisu, 2gating is really strong here
you have to abuse speedlings, run in there and make his zlots stay in his base while expanding
exp to the back like hyvaa did doesn't help you in units till muta
On December 29 2008 20:00 whatusername wrote: so can anyone tell me why really is good
Define "good". He's good in that he wins majority of game, and given that he plays A LOT and generally play Ace. The latter is fairly important because it's an unknown factor and you have to practice extra for it(unless your team is loaded and can afford to save a player just for ace).
No one thinks Really is star, but he's definitely a big reason why ESTRO isn't horrible this year.
oh come ON, Fantasy's been SO unlucky with everything here. Every single mine he planted to lure goliaths into turned out to be duds and got picked off by goliaths. Fantasy deserves this game.
On December 29 2008 20:09 GinNtoniC wrote: oh come ON, Fantasy's been SO unlucky with everything here. Every single mine he planted to lure goliaths into turned out to be duds and got picked off by goliaths. Fantasy deserves this game.
WHAT?
isn't that the OPPOSITE?
really's killing mines like crazy he needs to win this?
On December 29 2008 20:09 GinNtoniC wrote: oh come ON, Fantasy's been SO unlucky with everything here. Every single mine he planted to lure goliaths into turned out to be duds and got picked off by goliaths. Fantasy deserves this game.
wtf how is that unlucky? really did a great job not being too hasty stepping on mines and shit
On December 29 2008 20:18 Manifesto7 wrote: Fantasy really played with much more inspiration early on though. His mines did nothing, which was unfortunate.
laying mines and hoping ur opponent will walk into them is not that inspirational
really tried that recently too and it didn't work, since tank waay outranges vults
I can't understand why magma become so popular at TL recently. He hasn't shown anaything inspiring so far excpet that one good game against slumping Hwasin... It would be suicide to send magma there.
On December 29 2008 20:18 Manifesto7 wrote: Fantasy really played with much more inspiration early on though. His mines did nothing, which was unfortunate.
laying mines and hoping ur opponent will walk into them is not that inspirational
okay wtf, there were at least three mines that could have exploded, but really's units lucked out the last millisecond.
There's no "skill" involved when the difference is that small.
I think Really's cookie-cutter style is not going to cut it against Best or Bisu, and thought ESTRO should've sent Magma or Sangho. But hey, hopefully Really can surprise me and get a win.
On December 29 2008 20:14 ondik wrote: A match against estro going to ace? Seriously, SKT T1? My fanheart is hurt.
Loosing against Really isn't a real shame and they have to play a zerg . If only s2 could have played Really.
Yeah, bad thing we practiacally start every match 0-1, hope TheZerg can catch up soon, otherwise it will turn out to be a very bad trade. Anyway I can't believe the zerg line-up is sucking so hard.. Maybe they should hire some good retired zerg to coach them or buy few promising zerg players.
Bright side - we gonna totally own in 3rd period of season which is coming soon. I can't imagine losing to other team than Lecaf and Khan with KOTH format.
On December 29 2008 20:14 ondik wrote: A match against estro going to ace? Seriously, SKT T1? My fanheart is hurt.
Loosing against Really isn't a real shame and they have to play a zerg . If only s2 could have played Really.
Yeah, bad thing we practiacally start every match 0-1, hope TheZerg can catch up soon, otherwise it will turn out to be a very bad trade. Anyway I can't believe the zerg line-up is sucking so hard.. Maybe they should hire some good retired zerg to coach them or buy few promising zerg players.
Bright side - we gonna totally own in 3rd period of season which is coming soon. I can't imagine losing to other team than Lecaf and Khan with KOTH format.
I think that's the fourth quarter.
edit:
Since it's BO7, you need at least 3 good players to carry the team forward, and there's only two for lecaf (well, okay, 2.5 if you count backho). But with the way Jaedong is headed, he'd just take out any team regardless who's sent his way.
On December 29 2008 20:25 ondik wrote: Bright side - we gonna totally own in 3rd period of season which is coming soon. I can't imagine losing to other team than Lecaf and Khan with KOTH format.
WAIT WAIT WAIT WTF
They are doing MBC teamleague formate to finish the season? THEY REALLY LISTENED TO ME AT LONG LAST?
I'm sorry if it was already mentioned, but how exactly do you refresh with the daum player? When pressing F5 some menu pops up and I don't know what to do there Is there a refresh-button I missed?
I'm not sure I like that format. Really takes away the point of having depth on your team. And places more emphasis on players who can handle all three matchups.
Of course, reducing appearances by the likes of hyuk is a good thing though...
On December 29 2008 20:31 Mandalor wrote: I'm sorry if it was already mentioned, but how exactly do you refresh with the daum player? When pressing F5 some menu pops up and I don't know what to do there Is there a refresh-button I missed?
Back in the days when I used daum, i'd just close + reopen -_-
On December 29 2008 20:33 baubo wrote: I'm not sure I like that format. Really takes away the point of having depth on your team. And places more emphasis on players who can handle all three matchups.
Of course, reducing appearances by the likes of hyuk is a good thing though...
No you really need depth actually. Teams snipe so much better in this format, and you get to see players play all their matchups. I love it.
On December 29 2008 20:30 Manifesto7 wrote: Jesus I take a break for 6 months and kESPA finds a brain.
err team elimination is fun but bad for PL
there's gonna be so little diversity and mass blend games
Erm, the MBC teamleague was teh greatest team league ever. I think you are full of shit.
no you're full of shit
it's gonna come down to who has the highest ranked players and how many each team
this PL format, with all races played is way WAY better as a whole
Hey guess what, if you had watched the MBC teamleague, you would know how wrong you are. Every thread I see you in you are contradicting people. It is really annoying. I suggest you stop. You are already a once banned user.
On December 29 2008 20:30 Manifesto7 wrote: Jesus I take a break for 6 months and kESPA finds a brain.
err team elimination is fun but bad for PL
there's gonna be so little diversity and mass blend games
Erm, the MBC teamleague was teh greatest team league ever. I think you are full of shit.
no you're full of shit
it's gonna come down to who has the highest ranked players and how many each team
this PL format, with all races played is way WAY better as a whole
Hey guess what, if you had watched the MBC teamleague, you would know how wrong you are. Every thread I see you in you are contradicting people. It is really annoying. I suggest you stop. You are already a once banned user.
I KNOW the all-kill format, I already said it's fun to watch
but you can't distribute a top player in every team now can you?
On December 29 2008 20:33 baubo wrote: I'm not sure I like that format. Really takes away the point of having depth on your team. And places more emphasis on players who can handle all three matchups.
Of course, reducing appearances by the likes of hyuk is a good thing though...
No you really need depth actually. Teams snipe so much better in this format, and you get to see players play all their matchups. I love it.
This. TK that comes to mind is rA back then (vs. Soul, IIRC) and watching him play every MU was amazing. Chances of a TK are still relatively low regardless of player skill, so depth really is a requirement for this format IMO. Let's say someone snipes Jaedong and fOrGG against Lecaf, how would Lecaf recover?
On December 29 2008 20:30 Manifesto7 wrote: Jesus I take a break for 6 months and kESPA finds a brain.
err team elimination is fun but bad for PL
there's gonna be so little diversity and mass blend games
Erm, the MBC teamleague was teh greatest team league ever. I think you are full of shit.
no you're full of shit
it's gonna come down to who has the highest ranked players and how many each team
this PL format, with all races played is way WAY better as a whole
Hey guess what, if you had watched the MBC teamleague, you would know how wrong you are. Every thread I see you in you are contradicting people. It is really annoying. I suggest you stop. You are already a once banned user.
I KNOW the all-kill format, I already said it's fun to watch
but you can't distribute a top player in every team now can you?
sigh. if you knew it, you would know it isn't about sending a star player out for 7 games each day. just watch the game.
On December 29 2008 20:33 baubo wrote: I'm not sure I like that format. Really takes away the point of having depth on your team. And places more emphasis on players who can handle all three matchups.
Of course, reducing appearances by the likes of hyuk is a good thing though...
No you really need depth actually. Teams snipe so much better in this format, and you get to see players play all their matchups. I love it.
I hope that's the case. Because I think it's very possible for situations where a Flash or a Jaedong can just mop up. It just has to favor teams with a super-ace like KTF as opposed to a more balanced team like MBC.
On December 29 2008 20:33 baubo wrote: I'm not sure I like that format. Really takes away the point of having depth on your team. And places more emphasis on players who can handle all three matchups.
Of course, reducing appearances by the likes of hyuk is a good thing though...
No you really need depth actually. Teams snipe so much better in this format, and you get to see players play all their matchups. I love it.
I hope that's the case. Because I think it's very possible for situations where a Flash or a Jaedong can just mop up. It just has to favor teams with a super-ace like KTF as opposed to a more balanced team like MBC.
It's way too hard to practise all three MUs on three different maps.
this format with all races rq really is the best one for team league, it shows so much of each team's race/MU strength and not over-reliance on one player. although mixing it up is good
On December 29 2008 20:33 baubo wrote: I'm not sure I like that format. Really takes away the point of having depth on your team. And places more emphasis on players who can handle all three matchups.
Of course, reducing appearances by the likes of hyuk is a good thing though...
No you really need depth actually. Teams snipe so much better in this format, and you get to see players play all their matchups. I love it.
I hope that's the case. Because I think it's very possible for situations where a Flash or a Jaedong can just mop up. It just has to favor teams with a super-ace like KTF as opposed to a more balanced team like MBC.
It`s practically impossible to mop up. The koth format is brilliant and very entertaining...Every player can be sniped, even nowadays every player loses from time to time on a known map against a known opponent...although it will hurt lecaf
On December 29 2008 20:33 baubo wrote: I'm not sure I like that format. Really takes away the point of having depth on your team. And places more emphasis on players who can handle all three matchups.
Of course, reducing appearances by the likes of hyuk is a good thing though...
No you really need depth actually. Teams snipe so much better in this format, and you get to see players play all their matchups. I love it.
I hope that's the case. Because I think it's very possible for situations where a Flash or a Jaedong can just mop up. It just has to favor teams with a super-ace like KTF as opposed to a more balanced team like MBC.
It`s practically impossible to mop up. The koth format is brilliant and very entertaining...Every player can be sniped, even nowadays every player loses from time to time on a known map against a known opponent...although it will hurt lecaf
On December 29 2008 21:02 benjammin wrote: lol what
do you think best was legitimately trying to take an expansion or trying to embarass really in a game that was over
after what gogo did to him and after everything he said in the interview about beeing bm, i would never think that he would make an ownage nex
Q: You built Nexus in the opponent's secondary base. 도재욱: He (go.go) has been doing the similar things to me, so I intended to copy him. He often builds a lot of command centers even when he is winning the game. I wanted him to know how I was dissatisfied with that. Originally I wanted to recall probes, but I couldn't afford to.
Q: Did you prepare your ceremony? 도 재욱: No, I didn't. But when I saw him (go.go), I suddenly wanted to do that. I avenged other progamers who have been insulted by him.
Q: Is there anything else you'd like to say? 도 재욱: I have something to say to Kim Changhee. I think it is not cool to hurt other progamers' feelings both ingame and out, especially when you are also a progamer. It's good to set the tone before a game, but it is not right to build a command center in the opponent's base. I want him to show a more mature and polite attitude on Battle.net, too.
On December 29 2008 21:07 benjammin wrote: surprising how all the people defending a pretty dick move have T1 logos
I hate Best, and I'm not much of an SKT1 fan, but it's not BM to expand when you're winning. You shouldn't lower your play just because you're winning, you shouldn't stop giving the game your all just because you're winning. He opened the expo and took it, to secure that section of the map as his.
If I can add my 2cents I would say it was bm as well. Best added a pylon even before he took down that base and then immidiately takes the spot with nexus even though he is on 8 bases and is just raping Really's 3 o'clock. Well. he surely knew he won the game by that point.
Anyway, there is no reason to argue that passionately about that. ANyone can have different opinion.
Yes, expanding when you're ahead is 2nd nature to all progamers. But when you have half the map and your opponent is working on just a couple of bases, it's pretty obvious that you DON'T need to expand anymore. This isn't a case of a mid-game push where you expand at the same time, only to realize that your push was stronger than expected and gets a GG. Best KNOWS he has the game won.
That said, I don't really have a problem with it. If the losing player doesn't like that stuff, then he shouldn't get his ass kicked in the first place.
On December 29 2008 21:14 Lebesgue wrote: If I can add my 2cents I would say it was bm as well. Best added a pylon even before he took down that base and then immidiately takes the spot with nexus even though he is on 8 bases and is just raping Really's 3 o'clock. Well. he surely knew he won the game by that point.
Anyway, there is no reason to argue that passionately about that. ANyone can have different opinion.
On December 29 2008 21:24 PoP wrote: It's not "his base". It's a damn mineral spot.
There are many things that are useless to do when you're that ahead. It doesn't mean doing them is BM.
Exactly! You don't hear people crying BM when someone recalls into someone's base for the killing blow when they could have just as easily attack-moved into the base, or throwing up dark swarms when they're clearly not needed.
apparently Best and Really have played each other twice before. Did anything happen during those two games? (there's no vods in the TLPD, only results)
They've won some but lost a SHITLOAD of ace matches this season and the one before. They're slowly stepping up though, next year will be really good for them.
whether it can be defined as bm or not, it's not should-be-banned thing at all. if you get hurt by it, still blame yourself loser and take a revenge in a game next time.
On December 29 2008 20:57 Naib wrote: In yo face Nexus.
2-man team GO!
2 man team? thats something u made up on your own isnt it lol
Well, I'll try to explain. Most of the T1 players (especially zerg) results are total crap, Best and Bisu on the other hand are carrying the team on their shoulders. Thus, 2-man team, you know, a metaphor.
On December 29 2008 20:33 baubo wrote: I'm not sure I like that format. Really takes away the point of having depth on your team. And places more emphasis on players who can handle all three matchups.
Of course, reducing appearances by the likes of hyuk is a good thing though...
No you really need depth actually. Teams snipe so much better in this format, and you get to see players play all their matchups. I love it.
I hope that's the case. Because I think it's very possible for situations where a Flash or a Jaedong can just mop up. It just has to favor teams with a super-ace like KTF as opposed to a more balanced team like MBC.
It`s practically impossible to mop up. The koth format is brilliant and very entertaining...Every player can be sniped, even nowadays every player loses from time to time on a known map against a known opponent...although it will hurt lecaf
On December 29 2008 21:14 Lebesgue wrote: If I can add my 2cents I would say it was bm as well. Best added a pylon even before he took down that base and then immidiately takes the spot with nexus even though he is on 8 bases and is just raping Really's 3 o'clock. Well. he surely knew he won the game by that point.
What's wrong in placing a pylon at the spot where you intend to expand? The fact that Really's cc was still standing there didn't matter, BeSt harassed this base a lot throughout the game and wanted to capture it so that Really won't be able to take it back that easily in the case he won't GG right away and will try to stall for time (it's an ace match after all, in many of them people are staying in the game despite the odds although they've clearly lost it some time ago).
On December 29 2008 23:17 Naib wrote: Well, I'll try to explain. Most of the T1 players (especially zerg) results are total crap, Best and Bisu on the other hand are carrying the team on their shoulders. Thus, 2-man team, you know, a metaphor.
I hope that wasn't too deep to understand, sir.
The T1 Terrans aren't bad, its just that they all seem to be slumping this season. Canata prior to this season has been fairly consistent in TvT, keeping close to a historical 65% winrate in that matchup (and winning 8 of the 9 TvTs he played LAST PL season). Midas has been a solid performer on the T1 team for a while, its just that this season, things don't seem to be working out. And Fantasy, while maybe not on the level of Bisu/Best or other S-class players like Jaedong/Flash/Stork, is certainly capable of taking games off those players, and winning against lower-level players.
Honestly, discounting the zergs, T1's lineup shouldn't be thinner than, say, Samsung KHAN's. KHAN plays some combination of Stork, Jangbi, Firebathero, and Frozean almost every match. While Firebathero has certainly been showing stellar play in his two good matchups, I wouldn't say that Fantasy and Midas are worse than Frozean. The difference is that KHAN has two zergs that can win matches some of the time, Odin and Great.
Best and Bisu have most of T1's PL game wins, but that doesn't make T1 a two-man team. Their Terrans have performed well in the past, and should do so again once they can get their act together.
On December 29 2008 21:14 Lebesgue wrote: If I can add my 2cents I would say it was bm as well. Best added a pylon even before he took down that base and then immidiately takes the spot with nexus even though he is on 8 bases and is just raping Really's 3 o'clock. Well. he surely knew he won the game by that point.
By that logic it would be bm too to keep fighting even if know that you have most probably already lost the game.
On December 29 2008 21:51 3 Lions wrote: apparently Best and Really have played each other twice before. Did anything happen during those two games? (there's no vods in the TLPD, only results)
Not in particular. They were both in the same match - first on Katrina in the 2set? and then once again in the ace on Othello.
The game on Katrina was somewhat of a coming out party for Really. At that point BeSt was red-hot and nobody expected him to drop a game to a young Terran on a Protoss-favored macro map like Katrina. However, Really played a near-perfect game - trumping BeSt's signature arbiter use with some excellent EMPs. I remember former eSTRO coach Daniel Lee mentioning this game specifically during a commentary with Artosis - he was obviously proud of Really for this showing.
BeSt was probably disappointed for losing straight-up on Katrina to an unproven player, and returned in the ace game of that match to take on Really (once again) on Othello. He went for 1-gate robo, crushed Really's first push (I think it was FD) and then owned the defenseless Terran main. At the time, I thought that game was a brilliant display of BeSt's ability to change styles at the drop of a hat - one second he's duking it out in a macro war, and when that doesn't work he turns to unexpectedly aggressive play.
During those two games there was no sign of bad blood from either player, but you can see why both of them would want to make a statement in their game last night. The stakes were high (once again) and both players wanted to avenge a loss from last season - BeSt to prove that his PvT is now truly unstoppable and Really to prove that his game vs. BeSt on Katrina was not a fluke.
I haven't watched the VOD yet, but it sounds like the guys who are calling BeSt's final expo bm are just being idiots. Unless you're actually warping nexuses inside your enemy's nat/base, it can't be considered bm. I should add that BeSt is certainly not the type to be showy or offensive for no good reason. He'll let his play do the talking
While I'm on the subject, here are some stats for Do Jaewook in 2008:
71-27 (72.4%) wtf Best winstreak: 11 games (current winstreak is 8 games)
vP: 23-7 (76.7%) Best vP winstreak: 16 games (all-time record)
vT: 22-6 (78.5%) Best vT winstreak: 9 games (currently 13/his last 14)
On December 29 2008 21:51 3 Lions wrote: apparently Best and Really have played each other twice before. Did anything happen during those two games? (there's no vods in the TLPD, only results)
Not in particular. They were both in the same match - first on Katrina in the 2set? and then once again in the ace on Othello.
The game on Katrina was somewhat of a coming out party for Really. At that point BeSt was red-hot and nobody expected him to drop a game to a young Terran on a Protoss-favored macro map like Katrina. However, Really played a near-perfect game - trumping BeSt's signature arbiter use with some excellent EMPs. I remember former eSTRO coach Daniel Lee mentioning this game specifically during a commentary with Artosis - he was obviously proud of Really for this showing.
BeSt was probably disappointed for losing straight-up on Katrina to an unproven player, and returned in the ace game of that match to take on Really (once again) on Othello. He went for 1-gate robo, crushed Really's first push (I think it was FD) and then owned the defenseless Terran main. At the time, I thought that game was a brilliant display of BeSt's ability to change styles at the drop of a hat - one second he's duking it out in a macro war, and when that doesn't work he turns to unexpectedly aggressive play.
During those two games there was no sign of bad blood from either player, but you can see why both of them would want to make a statement in their game last night. The stakes were high (once again) and both players wanted to avenge a loss from last season - BeSt to prove that his PvT is now truly unstoppable and Really to prove that his game vs. BeSt on Katrina was not a fluke.
I haven't watched the VOD yet, but it sounds like the guys who are calling BeSt's final expo bm are just being idiots. Unless you're actually warping nexuses inside your enemy's nat/base, it can't be considered bm.
ok thanks for the clarification. I agree. Unless a hatchery/nexus/cc is built in the main or at the nat, its is not BM. I remember savior once built a hatchery under Nada's floating CC in the ODT, and there were no cries of foul.
If best can get his PvZ on the same level as his other two matchups (he has Bisu to learn from, wtf is he waiting for) he will truly be the best Protoss out there imo
On December 30 2008 06:19 InFiNitY[pG] wrote: If best can get his PvZ on the same level as his other two matchups (he has Bisu to learn from, wtf is he waiting for) he will truly be the best Protoss out there imo
Best Protoss out there? How about best SC player of all time? His other two MUs are consistently in the upper 70% (check the 2008 stats above), for any player to have all three MUs in the HIGH 70s is unheard of, even oov didn't manage it in all matchups during his reign of terror.
Even with "lackluster" (and by lackluster I mean ~50% winrate against the best Zergs out there) performance against Zerg, BeSt's 2008 record is still above 70% wins. That is insane.
I do agree though, BeSt should be learning from Bisu. I think the main problem with PvZ is that it's so contrary to his style of play - much more micro and harass-style play is required, unlike in PvP or PvT where he can play solid defense and build his eco. Another major mistake is his obsession with sair-reaver - BeSt, dude, you don't have the control to pull that off. Just stick to templar tech please!
On December 29 2008 21:55 KizZBG wrote: Nothing really happened. I remember Really dmatrixing a mine in the game he won but that's nothing.
lol dude that's an awesome move
can you imagine if someone dmatrixed a mine as it's triggered then it killed a whole bunch of stuff? that'd work in tvp lategame if you got a keen eye for which mine to dmatrix
On December 29 2008 21:51 3 Lions wrote: apparently Best and Really have played each other twice before. Did anything happen during those two games? (there's no vods in the TLPD, only results)
Not in particular. They were both in the same match - first on Katrina in the 2set? and then once again in the ace on Othello.
On December 29 2008 21:51 3 Lions wrote: apparently Best and Really have played each other twice before. Did anything happen during those two games? (there's no vods in the TLPD, only results)
Not in particular. They were both in the same match - first on Katrina in the 2set? and then once again in the ace on Othello.
the ace was on wuthering heights
Ah, good call IdrA. My memory fails me
Lesson learned: way, way too many twilight maps these days.
On December 29 2008 21:51 3 Lions wrote: apparently Best and Really have played each other twice before. Did anything happen during those two games? (there's no vods in the TLPD, only results)
Not in particular. They were both in the same match - first on Katrina in the 2set? and then once again in the ace on Othello.
the ace was on wuthering heights
Ah, good call IdrA. My memory fails me
Lesson learned: way, way too many twilight maps these days.
LoL, just look at TLPD. It was on WHeights or just search it on youtube. I watched both games on youtube.If cannot recognize couple twilight maps, i dont have idea what to say
EPT
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SangHo (P) < Medusa > 
maGma (Z) < Sin Chupung-Ryeong > 
Really (T) < Neo Harmony > Fantasy (T)
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