On December 23 2008 22:31 miseiler wrote: Bisu might have the best PvZ overall, but Jaedong is the only zerg right now. Free's aggressive style is better suited to beating Jaedong.
I've said this before and I still stand by the claim that Free's pvz is overrated as shit. His wins vs JD were flukes and if JD played as well as he did today against bisu he would surely have beat free. Also bisu being passive? Bisu's main problem that game was probably being too aggressive with his shuttle and delaying his third. JD was just prepared for his shuttle play, and had his hydralisks planted in the right spots. Bisu is still the greatest pvzer of all time and to suggest that the result would've been different if Free were in bisu's place is just stupid.
This. Bisu has the best PvZ of all time
Dude, you are forgetting the ORIGINAL Zerg killer.
I have to disagree with you there. Two points to consider.
1. Bisu revolutionized PvZ play. You get brownie points for that. 2. Anytime's zerg dominance came AFTER Bisu's incredible 3-0 of Savior and introduced the Bisu build.
I know Bisu kind of gets overrated by some, but I don't think it's a stretch to say he is the PvZ master.
Incorrect
Bisu did not revolutionize PvZ, the whole forge expand build was known way before his time, and his corsair-DT harass style was invented by Nal_ra and Daezang, no brownie points for you I am afraid.
Secondly, WTF are you talking about? Were you even here when Anytime won So1? Anytime's zerg dominance started before Bisu even was in the big leagues, he took out pretty much all the big zergs such as Yellow and July. He did the infamous DT rush vs Yellow which was a pimpest play. Anytime was the zerg killer in pre-savior era.
Seriously what is it with these stupid noobs who don't know anything about Starcraft history, blabbering like they know any shit at all.
"Anytime was the zerg killer in pre-savior era." haha says the guy who previously stated that "Seriously what is it with these stupid noobs who don't know anything about Starcraft history, blabbering like they know any shit at all"
it was just hype for bisu, i agree that he didnt do anything new, though maybe his short lived dominance is what people thought meant he was 'revolutionary'.
Someone on TL needs to write a definitive guide to SC history on who revolutionized what, where, when and how. Day[9] can write the zerg section. gogogo.
I havent watched the game yet, but by the comments it sounds very similar to that game on bluestorm jaedong played vs bisu a while ago. It seems to me that bisu is taking a really bad approach to try to beat jaedong. Now i dont follow the pro scene as any of you might. However, all this harass and multitask everywhere? its jaedongs playground. That game on bluestorm, despite the harass being some of the best ive ever seen, even doing moderate damage while bisu was able to grab an expansion or 2 of his own and even making the game really good, was a terrible idea to try to apply on jaedong imo.
How did the game end? With jaedong having half the map with a monstrous army. And bisu with probably an even better econ than jaedong but with only few ammounts of high tech units (dts, hts and reavers) which while probably seem an amazing counter against hydra, they simply cannot fight hydralisks, the protoss needs an army of low tier units and by the time bisu got around to making it, it was already too late.
Probably this way of playing, this mass harassing everywhere while setting up his econ and after that try to actually make an army works against most other zergs, but it will definitely not work against jaedong.
On December 25 2008 15:48 Cloud wrote: I havent watched the game yet, but by the comments it sounds very similar to that game on bluestorm jaedong played vs bisu a while ago. It seems to me that bisu is taking a really bad approach to try to beat jaedong. Now i dont follow the pro scene as any of you might. However, all this harass and multitask everywhere? its jaedongs playground. That game on bluestorm, despite the harass being some of the best ive ever seen, even doing moderate damage while bisu was able to grab an expansion or 2 of his own and even making the game really good, was a terrible idea to try to apply on jaedong imo.
How did the game end? With jaedong having half the map with a monstrous army. And bisu with probably an even better econ than jaedong but with only few ammounts of high tech units (dts, hts and reavers) which while probably seem an amazing counter against hydra, they simply cannot fight hydralisks, the protoss needs an army of low tier units and by the time bisu got around to making it, it was already too late.
Probably this way of playing, this mass harassing everywhere while setting up his econ and after that try to actually make an army works against most other zergs, but it will definitely not work against jaedong.
Yeah, even though the 4Gate 2Archon timing rush's impact on Destination has been lessened, I've still never seen it fail except in Tempest vs Juni, but that was Tempest's fault. Like he played really bad.
On December 25 2008 15:02 Magic84 wrote: JD is the best player in the world. kespa ranks and PR suck.
kespa didnt sanction first season of gom when JD won that tournament so his real achievement is underlabeled in kespa and ELO. I think its a tad unfair to sanction and take into account 2nd season of gom and future ones but not consider the first one
On December 25 2008 15:02 Magic84 wrote: JD is the best player in the world. kespa ranks and PR suck.
kespa didnt sanction first season of gom when JD won that tournament so his real achievement is underlabeled in kespa and ELO. I think its a tad unfair to sanction and take into account 2nd season of gom and future ones but not consider the first one
It is fair.BTW JD is not best player in the world.
On December 27 2008 09:44 Avidkeystamper wrote: These statements are completely subjective.
Best player in the world aint. Lol
Yes. lol. That's the whole point of 'Best'. Do you ever wonder why there would be so many arguments over it if it wasn't?
Differing opinions doesn't make a matter subjective. Subjective is differing opinons being completely valid. Morality is subjective. There is no universal morality. There is a reality however, and while not all may agree on who is best, there is one who is best, even if not universally accepted. In other words, there are those know someone is best, and there are those who disagree- and are wrong.
On December 27 2008 09:44 Avidkeystamper wrote: These statements are completely subjective.
Best player in the world aint. Lol
Yes. lol. That's the whole point of 'Best'. Do you ever wonder why there would be so many arguments over it if it wasn't?
Differing opinions doesn't make a matter subjective. Subjective is differing opinons being completely valid. Morality is subjective. There is no universal morality. There is a reality however, and while not all may agree on who is best, there is one who is best, even if not universally accepted. In other words, there are those know someone is best, and there are those who disagree- and are wrong.
So the fact that the first season of GOM doesn't count for rankings is fair, objectively?
EPT![[image loading]](http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/6681/2008070213025362mj9.jpg)
