BackHo >> July BackHo will cheese and July will go 12hatch and be lax on scouting. BackHo << July Sumo powar BackHo << July 7th month of the year BackHo << July Tushin BackHo -- July
On July 04 2008 16:02 Roffles wrote: Dude chill, there's 2 hours and 30 minutes till it starts. Stream may or may not be provided then. Just relax until then.
Yeah 2hrs and 30mn before it starts and NO ONE MADE A THREAD I was so hurt BackHo needs some attention even if the outcome is basically set in stone..lol 6-10 PvZ record poor backho.
I really do think July is going to take this round, but unfortunately I think he had a much greater chance against Luxury than against Best. Oh well, there's still a chance he can get that mouse...
On July 04 2008 17:14 B1nary wrote: It'll be o_O if Backho actually wins the entire thing. Biggest wtf in progamer history.
imho, I think its more likely backho would win... its just that everyone likes July more than Backho.
What makes you think that? the first/2nd/last maps are in zerg's favor, backho's lowest record comes from his PvZ, and from previous encounters July outplayed him straight up in a huge macro/micro rape, was never even close.
Yeah sure Jaedong would make one hell of a PvZ partner, but if having a solid teammate was completely influential, then why has Nada's team sucked so much in the early years, especially Silver's pitiful ZvT?
Backho doesn't have "it". He doesn't have a killer enigma, a crafty style, nor the mental aptitude (see his recent breakdown vs Haran).
He is another Frozean, another Ever)P(TT, and a Child.
Wow, guys, best pictures/Photoshops I have seen for a hype in a while. They all made me laugh loud. And even though my mind says July will rape, something feels just wrong. I (like most) thought BackHo would go down 0-2 in his ODT group, than 0-2 in the Bisu-Mind-Much Death Group, then get owned by JangBi. And there he is. BackHo is the Upset King. I won't bury him that fast.
On July 04 2008 17:14 B1nary wrote: It'll be o_O if Backho actually wins the entire thing. Biggest wtf in progamer history.
backho winning this series would be biggest wtf ever but beating best in his pet matchup would be immediently surpass it as most wtf moment in bw history
On July 04 2008 17:14 B1nary wrote: It'll be o_O if Backho actually wins the entire thing. Biggest wtf in progamer history.
backho winning this series would be biggest wtf ever but beating best in his pet matchup would be immediently surpass it as most wtf moment in bw history
Hahaha I want to see how far backho goes with his upset streak.
I wonder how they think of him in Korea though. I feel that much of the hate here comes from his ridiculous name...
With such a mediocre winning percentage, it proves July tends to win games he prepares and studies for instead of people like Flash who can win no matter the circumstances
On July 04 2008 18:48 Exhale85 wrote: this is an unusual build from July who is usually a low-res zerg.
Actually this build is completely standard on maps like this. Lurk rush to hold the wide open third before lot rush timing, early ups, turtle while taking another hatch into hive rushcrackling. Finish with ultras.
If hes massing sair, then get early ovie speed upgrade and mass upded hydras(speed/range).
Backho books it and just runs straight past the mass of hydras looking to 7oclock for an expo by July and splitting to attack july's expo and 3 gets 3... 4 5 dorone kills
backho distracts JUlys hydra force bya ttakcing the expos goes back to take the gas expo outside his main zealot temp teamo moving out a few storms go off and ooh backho making way but MORE HYDRAS oh jeez thats alot
july pushing forward tobackhos undefended expo and splits Backho's force from his expo at 11 and takes it out as backho sense his forces to 3olcokc to trade epxos but is stopped and GG's when is met with defenses
Some of July's reaction timing was slow, I dunno if he'll be able to match up with Best if he keeps up with these sluggish antics. I'm concerned actually :/
On July 04 2008 19:07 QuietIdiot wrote: Some of July's reaction timing was slow, I dunno if he'll be able to match up with Best if he keeps up with these sluggish antics. I'm concerned actually :/
let him get warmed up its only game 1 and backho is really to stressful an opponent to draw it out of u
July's reaction seemed fine to me. He spotted the DT in his base quick and didn't lose a single drone. That was one of the few times he really needed it
On July 04 2008 19:08 Exhale85 wrote: July's reaction seemed fine to me. He spotted the DT in his base quick and didn't lose a single drone. That was one of the few times he really needed it
july moving out with hydras struaght o backhos base with the hydra alin and backho has lef tot kill the expo! he got baited july revealed that expo on purpose!!!!!
They are tourists in Seoul, see a lot of teenagers being excited for something in a mall and then they somehow find out they can attend a free sports match. These people go to Korea for culture. And esports is pretty unique in Korea.
Same reason why the belgium minister of technology made a business visit.
OH MAN wow thats crazy planing by july down goes the nat nexus and thats going to ggg soon walling with lurkers to killt he zealots with the leftover hydras
Backho trying to recover the nexus at his mineral only is done july is moving out with ol hydras and lurk to finish the job, backho picking off OL's with sairs
On July 04 2008 19:21 QuietIdiot wrote: LOOOL PISS POOR GAME SENSE FOR BACKHO
CHRIST
Well july did basically shut down backhos scouting with nicely timed scourge and constant management of them. Checking the base, looking for stray sairs etc. Makes it a lot harder to adapt. If you can't scout "game sense" is just an educated guess. It's very easy to be very wrong against a good zerg player.
who would expect backho to win on those two maps? seriously july played nice the second game, but all the credits to backho and the fact that he is so dumb... its good to see a decent play from tushin again but he has absolutely no chance against best
On July 04 2008 19:19 Showtime! wrote: Is there any reason why I cannot get yaoyuan.com up? Says the live.php isn't found nor can I get the webpage to come up. Fucking weird.
On July 04 2008 19:27 disciple wrote: who would expect backho to win on those two maps? seriously july played nice the second game, but all the credits to backho and the fact that he is so dumb... its good to see a decent play from tushin again but he has absolutely no chance against best
We'll see how that works out for you. July definitely stands a chance against Best and I'm sure it will be a close close series, maybe even going to game 5.
On July 04 2008 19:19 Showtime! wrote: Is there any reason why I cannot get yaoyuan.com up? Says the live.php isn't found nor can I get the webpage to come up. Fucking weird.
On July 04 2008 19:27 disciple wrote: who would expect backho to win on those two maps? seriously july played nice the second game, but all the credits to backho and the fact that he is so dumb... its good to see a decent play from tushin again but he has absolutely no chance against best
I wouldn't be too sure about that. Best's PvZ is good, but not spectacular. July has a decent chance of taking it.
On July 04 2008 19:21 QuietIdiot wrote: LOOOL PISS POOR GAME SENSE FOR BACKHO
CHRIST
Well july did basically shut down backhos scouting with nicely timed scourge and constant management of them. Checking the base, looking for stray sairs etc. Makes it a lot harder to adapt. If you can't scout "game sense" is just an educated guess. It's very easy to be very wrong against a good zerg player.
There were many factors that attack was piss poor.
If he did assume he would kill the expansion, he should've weighed in the possible counters. The moment he didn't see any units there is the moment backho should've moved back and positioned his army to either retreat or to take on incoming defenses. He did neither and went back and forth trying to figure what to do next.
He built up a surmountable sair force, he probably gambled and assumed mutas would be the likely counter to his zeal raid, AND he went +1 upgrades for air, so that was huge. All that gas should've been invested in an earlier templar tech, and he was punished for being too conservative. A single speed zealot could've just ran by the front of july's expo and saw those hydras, let alone scout many variables to july's midgame unit combination.
His tactics in PvZ so far have been tic-tac-toe, and I find it sad/humorous.
On July 04 2008 19:19 Showtime! wrote: Is there any reason why I cannot get yaoyuan.com up? Says the live.php isn't found nor can I get the webpage to come up. Fucking weird.
I'm on the yaoyuan stream and it's working fine
Me too. Do they close it when it's full or something?
I hope Backho wasn't kidding himself thinking he had a chance here.
On July 04 2008 19:27 disciple wrote: who would expect backho to win on those two maps? seriously july played nice the second game, but all the credits to backho and the fact that he is so dumb... its good to see a decent play from tushin again but he has absolutely no chance against best
I wouldn't be too sure about that. Best's PvZ is good, but not spectacular. July has a decent chance of taking it.
and july has the experience of 4 finals Best hasnt
On July 04 2008 19:21 QuietIdiot wrote: LOOOL PISS POOR GAME SENSE FOR BACKHO
CHRIST
Well july did basically shut down backhos scouting with nicely timed scourge and constant management of them. Checking the base, looking for stray sairs etc. Makes it a lot harder to adapt. If you can't scout "game sense" is just an educated guess. It's very easy to be very wrong against a good zerg player.
There were many factors that attack was piss poor.
If he did assume he would kill the expansion, he should've weighed in the possible counters. The moment he didn't see any units there is the moment backho should've moved back and positioned his army to either retreat or to take on incoming defenses. He did neither and went back and forth trying to figure what to do next.
He built up a surmountable sair force, he probably gambled and assumed mutas would be the likely counter to his zeal raid, AND he went +1 upgrades for air, so that was huge. All that gas should've been invested in an earlier templar tech, and he was punished for being too conservative. A single speed zealot could've just ran by the front of july's expo and saw those hydras, let alone scout many variables to july's midgame unit combination.
His tactics in PvZ so far have been tic-tac-toe, and I find it sad/humorous.
Yeah I was thinking similarly. When there was absolutely nothing but a hatchery there, he could have left 2/3 zeals there, and taken on the (assumed) incoming defenses in a better position. When they didn't show, he could have figured out where they were going.
I meant specifically Bisu's performance + execution of his tactics. They're so high level that even he has trouble duplicating his old performance, and no one has been able to out perform his PvZ (at its height, mind you) since. Kal and Best come close but you can tell they can't execute the same agressive gorilla tactics (dt drops, dts sneaking in, reaver sair) that bisu pulled off with such ease.
On July 04 2008 19:27 disciple wrote: who would expect backho to win on those two maps? seriously july played nice the second game, but all the credits to backho and the fact that he is so dumb... its good to see a decent play from tushin again but he has absolutely no chance against best
I wouldn't be too sure about that. Best's PvZ is good, but not spectacular. July has a decent chance of taking it.
I dont hail best's pvz, just saying july's play doesnt say anything atm...to say it right no toss has figured out yet how to play hwarangdo ( or how is it called) vs rock and vs backho ,july had cheap wins, andromeda is decent ZvP map as well. Lets not give away the golden mouse to july in front, he has the balanced maps yet to play
Backho looks like he is having trouble grasping the basics of PvZ needed to make it to the finals of a starleague. People who aren't well rounded in all 3 matchups don't deserve to play for a Starleague Title
On July 04 2008 19:36 Exhale85 wrote: I meant specifically Bisu's performance + execution of his tactics. They're so high level that even he has trouble duplicating his old performance, and no one has been able to out perform his PvZ (at its height, mind you) since. Kal and Best come close but you can tell they can't execute the same agressive gorilla tactics (dt drops, dts sneaking in, reaver sair) that bisu pulled off with such ease.
That's because zergs expect it and are much better at defending against this.
well gomplayer, duam player, yy.com (get a blank page -- yes in explorer -.-;, stream mmses and TVAnts don't work, so bleh I don't know. licks balls o well july has it in the bag but it would have been nice to see him rape him.
I don't think July is much of an underdog vs BeSt actually...
That being said even though I'm a huge BeSt fan (he is Kingdom's heir after all... who's my like my 2nd all time favourite player after Boxer), I love July and I could be happy with either outcome in a BeSt vs July final, as long as it's not a 3-0 one sided rape from one of the players. I've said it time and time again (and others have said it before me): Backho simply does not belong in an OSL final. I think he can do 1-3 at most.
Bisu's latest PvP losses were when he screwed his hand, though. All of his PvP games outside of the hand injury have been wins, and he also smashed Pure with an injured hand and pushed Free playing well to his usual amazing goon/storm management. He's no Best, but his PvP is plenty enough to beat Jangbi.
Backho's so lucky pulling that off without the probes. 3 probes = kill sunk while zealots clean up lings. Usually if you don't bring them you'd be fucked
Rushing has all the sudden become cheesing I guess. Oh noes, what has the world come to. Sounds like I'm not missing much by this series unless Backho can push it to a game 5.
On July 04 2008 19:53 ctang wrote: how was building two gate at his own base all across the map considered cheesing? is this no rush 10 minutes or something?
I agree. July was just sorely unprepared to the point that it looked like 9/9 proxy gate or something. Did July even scout?
Anyway, I don't think it was too terrible a strategy by Backho, since there's so much emphasis on those assimilators to cripple your opponent's ability to play.
On July 04 2008 19:56 Showtime! wrote: Well the guy used to be really good + Show Spoiler +
in 2002 ;p
, Not to mention, he was in Canada not to long ago.
I talked with a friend about the korean scene not so long ago. The guy doesnt play starcraft for 5-6 years now, so he is not quite in dept of the things, but he surprised me with the question " Is ChRh still playin?" ... ChRh is a living legend maybe one of the few gamers taking the hole way from 1.01
On July 04 2008 19:59 Letmelose wrote: It was cheese. One of the most aggressive builds a protoss can do. If it works, why not use it? It caught the likes of Jaedong and July off guard.
Are you just trying to say retarded stuff on purpose to aggravate people
On July 04 2008 20:00 Showtime! wrote: There is too much hate towards players like lomo and backho considering they're underdogs. Some of you guys ought to lighten up:D
pretty sure most people like lomo. but i agree with you on backho
spire is done and backho has very few defense NO CANNONS AT HIS MAIN this is game over if he doesnt get any cannons and even ith cannons this is july we're talking about the cannos wont be done int ime!!
templar is out theyeres 2 but its too late!! cannos warped int oo slow and the cannons are down this is so over for backho trying to send out 4 zealots to harrras but oH A NICE STORM BY BACKHO but its not enough to kill all the mutas 3 goons manage to get rid of the mutalaisks all ver low hp
On July 04 2008 19:56 Showtime! wrote: Well the guy used to be really good + Show Spoiler +
in 2002 ;p
, Not to mention, he was in Canada not to long ago.
I talked with a friend about the korean scene not so long ago. The guy doesnt play starcraft for 5-6 years now, so he is not quite in dept of the things, but he surprised me with the question " Is ChRh still playin?" ... ChRh is a living legend maybe one of the few gamers taking the hole way from 1.01
Yeah man, he is a cool cat. A few of my friends got the chance to meet him when he stayed in Canada. No disrespect. He was a very good random player, though I'd say his Terran was best back in the day. His zerg wasn't bad either.
BAcK HO WIN PLEASE!!!!! I wanna see a PvP final! ZErg has won 6 titles for the last dozen of months, you can't just let them have another chance to grab another big title.
On July 04 2008 20:00 Showtime! wrote: There is too much hate towards players like lomo and backho considering they're underdogs. Some of you guys ought to lighten up:D
pretty sure most people like lomo. but i agree with you on backho
votes were pretty lopsided for flash and after reading the entire thread because I crashed for the night, it sounded like there were far more haters lol.
sure, some said they were pulling for the guy but they voted flash in the end. smart choice! ;p
he's wasting stom on single lurkers spreading out his units alot , july sending in more lings to harras surrounding the goons! storm after storm isnt enough GUARDIANS POUNDING BACKHOS NAT
july adding more and more hatcerys backho moving in to killt he 120clock expo it looks ok a bad storm by backho right nto of the hatchery allt he lings are dead buyt backhos nat nexus is gone but his 3rd iss tillr unning
july adding more and more hatceries backho ignoring the guardians tearing apart his nat as he pushes to July's 3rd expo, a nice daarkswarm agains the goons a storm killing of fmost of the lings! defiler dies too!
No, July just showed he can still bang like the rest of them.
His aggressive zerg is very entertaining to watch and I'm glad he's back in form. Hopefully now he'll get that golden mouse many of us have been waiting for. If he pulls this off he has surpassed Savior in my book.
wow, i'm surprised backho got so many votes considering lomo only had what 76-78. Thought it would have been less.
This pleases me. Hope July can reload and focus on cracking Best. His aggresive style might work very well against a mid-->lategame macro beast like BeSt.
othello is not that bad for PvZ as andromeda and hwarandgo so I guess Best got lucky with the map pool, as much a protoss can be "lucky" versus zerg with those maps
On July 04 2008 20:35 HaXxorIzed wrote: That's the best map-pool Best could have hoped for. Andromeda is where he can apply what Stork/Bisu did, while Othello/Troy are his to take.
yeah,but he will be under pressure because the must-win maps for him are first and second to play
change your fucking profile icon then. It isn't hard, but I think you are only allowed to change it once.
It's a double-edged sword. He could have more confidence going in because he really likes those two maps best in the map pool, so it could be the opposite.
I'm almost inclined to pick Best to catch up in the LB, but Lomo really made me slide and I'm still very far behind. I usually go over 80% when it comes to voting in BoS in LB =[
As a matter a fact I did. You forgot to assess Best's stats on those maps. He has a very good ratio. Sometimes it isn't all about the Z-V-P ratio for all players. Best should love the maps and order. His chances just went up slightly.
On July 04 2008 20:50 disciple wrote: well, I guess if BeSt wins it will be more than deserved , cause he played all the MU to get there and July completely skipped the ZvT
To be fair the only PvT BeSt has played this OSL is against NaDa. Not like he vs'ed very many T's himself. July beat Mind and someother T in this OSL although it was BO wins...
On July 04 2008 20:50 disciple wrote: well, I guess if BeSt wins it will be more than deserved , cause he played all the MU to get there and July completely skipped the ZvT
To be fair the only PvT BeSt has played this OSL is against NaDa. Not like he vs'ed very many T's himself. July beat Mind and someother T in this OSL although it was BO wins...
I really dont question best's PvT skills, he shows what he can in the PL
i am quite confident in sayin that if jangbi faced july, the result wuld hav been very different.. but then again, it'd b best vs jangbi which is boring pvp finals so i guess it worked well in da end
I will vote for July. ZvP seemed imba to me in the last months, especially toss is weak in the early game. Best will have to work hard and be lucky to be able to get in middle game in a good situation. But if he succeeds to do this, he should be fine.
Ah bollocks! BeSt looked so bloody strong on Othello vs Luxury. It's better than 2x Troy, but it's definately not good for mr sumozerg.
PvZ wise Othello is the most balanced map of the current OSL map pool, so I'm really happy they picked it as the one to be played twice.
Pretty much... it isn't Troy or Hwrangdro twice that's for sure. Way better than the semifinal map pools, although it didn't seem to make a difference in either case... :>
Wow, BackHo put on a really pathetic performance in this match. It's rare to see a game that makes me think "wow, this progamer has awful micro" but that's what my impression was of game four when BackHo seemed to be sending random units to attack July here and there while allowing his nat to be toasted by guardians.
Not really sure what he was doing out there, he seemed totally unprepared for this series from the moment that lame reaver-zealot attack died to July's mutas in game one.
*sigh* as a BeSt fan I wanted BackHo to go through, but now BeSt will have more of a challenge with July. This will make for a very exciting series and I'm glad the map pool has no Hwarangdo or Andromeda x2.
On July 05 2008 08:41 Woyn wrote: A ZvZ finals would be interesting
There were no ZvZ finals in OSL at all...well, in fact in 1999 in Progamer Korea Open, which was positioned as the first OSL, there was a ZvZ final: FreeMuRa vs TheBoy...but it was not the absolutely "real" OSL, as I think.
On July 05 2008 11:00 CDRdude wrote: Which games are worth watching?
1,2, and 4. 3 was a little bit disappointing, but forgivable.
3 was on a gay map. But the loser played quite meh that game. + Show Spoiler +
But July raped him the other 3 games, so it's all good
Umm the reason it was a 'gay map' was because it was the only map here Zerg didnt have a winning record on lol. Aside from the fact that July could rape BackHo(or something of the sort) on any map, without the Zerg favoring, I think BackHo should be applauded for putting up a good fight with July and fighting it down to the wire, even in unsurmountable odds :D
July's game sense is unreal. He is miles ahead of BackHo and most likely Best in that department. He has straight up just been around longer. You can't fake or fabricate the kind of skill needed to beat July. I'll give some credit to Best, he is much farther along than most players and actually poses a decent threat, but July is a Starcraft grandpa compared to him. These new kids are so mechanical, grinding out the micro and macro faster and more efficient than ever before, but it's the overall wisdom they have to find. Simple things like July's game-ending counter in game 2 prove it over and over. I can't wait for these finals... Golden Mouse, JULY FIGHTING.
On July 04 2008 19:37 Exhale85 wrote: Backho looks like he is having trouble grasping the basics of PvZ needed to make it to the finals of a starleague. People who aren't well rounded in all 3 matchups don't deserve to play for a Starleague Title
Like July's zvt? By today's standard, his zvt is a lot worse than Backho's pvz. Backho is a more complete player that he is allowed to play on the A team for single. The less wellrounded like July play 2v2s. July lucked out with the tournament draw. Luck happens. July will likely take the Golden Mouse.
On July 04 2008 19:37 Exhale85 wrote: Backho looks like he is having trouble grasping the basics of PvZ needed to make it to the finals of a starleague. People who aren't well rounded in all 3 matchups don't deserve to play for a Starleague Title
Like July's zvt? By today's standard, his zvt is a lot worse than Backho's pvz. Backho is a more complete player that he is allowed to play on the A team for single. The less wellrounded like July play 2v2s. July lucked out with the tournament draw. Luck happens. July will likely take the Golden Mouse.
Lies, Backho plays 2v2 with ToSky as well. So what if he got a lucky draw? He still managed to take games off Mind and Jaedong Killer (Frozean) to get to later stages of OSL.
On July 04 2008 19:37 Exhale85 wrote: Backho looks like he is having trouble grasping the basics of PvZ needed to make it to the finals of a starleague. People who aren't well rounded in all 3 matchups don't deserve to play for a Starleague Title
Like July's zvt? By today's standard, his zvt is a lot worse than Backho's pvz. Backho is a more complete player that he is allowed to play on the A team for single. The less wellrounded like July play 2v2s. July lucked out with the tournament draw. Luck happens. July will likely take the Golden Mouse.
Lies, Backho plays 2v2 with ToSky as well. So what if he got a lucky draw? He still managed to take games off Mind and Jaedong Killer (Frozean) to get to later stages of OSL.
My mistake on the 2v2 bit. I keep confusing Free and backho, the have the same squinty eye, bowel haircut, & protruding mouth. lol. I still stand that backho's pvz is better than July's zvt as well as being more well rounded. My post was just a response to Exhale85's comment, "People who aren't well rounded in all 3 matchups don't deserve to play for a Starleague Title"
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Daigomi/Banner__Ever_OSL_2008.jpg)
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BackHo -vs- 
July![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8f/S2300039.JPG)
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