EPT
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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Empyrean
16998 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8290 Posts
Light and Soma on my LB, tho i heard speed has a very strong tvt... | ||
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Simplistik
2049 Posts
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Simplistik
2049 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11058 Posts
Wouldn't hate Larva Soma tbh. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands953 Posts
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RogerChillingworth
3008 Posts
Anyways, this group should be really fun. When there's 4 Protoss in the ro4, I'm excited to hear how soma is gonna win the whole thing. Go soma though. | ||
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Toshinou-Kyouko
Philippines296 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5129 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5129 Posts
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RogerChillingworth
3008 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5129 Posts
On September 16 2025 19:44 RogerChillingworth wrote: Speed more like...Speed 2 Quite the disaster | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
On September 16 2025 19:44 RogerChillingworth wrote: Speed more like...Speed 2 light put it on cruise control. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
3008 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21800 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5129 Posts
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Zergxhx
China165 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13113 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
as in tastosis coined it during a soma game | ||
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gravity
Australia1926 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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gravity
Australia1926 Posts
didn't matter though | ||
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gravity
Australia1926 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21800 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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RogerChillingworth
3008 Posts
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RogerChillingworth
3008 Posts
Many losses were accrued. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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Kespa1988
47 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44609 Posts
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RogerChillingworth
3008 Posts
i think soma knows though. the Zasz went to his head. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44609 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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SkelA
Macedonia13051 Posts
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SCRVN
80 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia368 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44609 Posts
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Just_a_Moth
Canada1956 Posts
On September 16 2025 20:55 Rainalcar wrote: Poor read from light. If he stayed defensive, he wins. I thought he would break the sunkens. I mean guess he did, but he couldn't any real damage done. | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia368 Posts
On September 16 2025 20:58 Just_a_Moth wrote: I thought he would break the sunkens. I mean guess he did, but he couldn't any real damage done. He knew about 3 creeps. He could have figured it would be more. Soma was very much muta all-in. | ||
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Sorusaba
289 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13113 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5129 Posts
On September 16 2025 21:15 RowdierBob wrote: wtf is Xun always going on about with ‘tempo’? Watch the Korean stream already lol. You will get used to the commentators quickly. | ||
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barcodejester
24 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13113 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5129 Posts
On September 16 2025 18:33 Peeano wrote: If those guys care enough Speed is not winning more than 1 game today. Please make it so. Easy. | ||
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Kespa1988
47 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44609 Posts
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Sorusaba
289 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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SCRVN
80 Posts
On September 16 2025 21:19 konadora wrote: Light vs Larva gonna be tough for Larva imo Light lost to Larva 2 times (at least) in ASLs but I don't remember Light won to Larva any games. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
On September 16 2025 21:19 konadora wrote: Light vs Larva gonna be tough for Larva imo don't know, light has such a slow start when he plays TvZ he might drop a set before he gets serious, hopefully the soma series warmed him up. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
3008 Posts
Dude I'm just waiting for the ro8 bracket drawing. It's like my favorite part. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
On September 16 2025 21:22 BLinD-RawR wrote: don't know, light has such a slow start when he plays TvZ he might drop a set before he gets serious, hopefully the soma series warmed him up. yeah he's been in a slump lately, not really performing in Race Battle and stuff, but his series vs Soma should have locked him in by now | ||
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Simplistik
2049 Posts
Also, Light looks like he's got no confidence in playing TvZ. | ||
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Sorusaba
289 Posts
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TMNT
2838 Posts
Larva certainly cares too much lol. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
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Zergxhx
China165 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
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prion_
76 Posts
On September 16 2025 20:12 BLinD-RawR wrote: correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't soma the reason behind the phrase OgreZergGamer? as in tastosis coined it during a soma game It was Action v. Best | ||
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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prion_
76 Posts
On September 16 2025 21:33 konadora wrote: there's no way Larva is getting with a no pool 3 hatch... on Dominator no less Hmm | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
On September 16 2025 21:25 konadora wrote: yeah he's been in a slump lately, not really performing in Race Battle and stuff, but his series vs Soma should have locked him in by now yeah not liking the way light is looking right now. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
too many stacked irradiates, not active enough with vultures and vessels | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13113 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
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Sorusaba
289 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13113 Posts
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RogerChillingworth
3008 Posts
On September 16 2025 21:53 konadora wrote: ever since Light disappeared for a long time due to his wife complaining, his performance has really dropped LOL. Wives, man. Light really has looked weak for a while. All the Terrans slumping. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
On September 16 2025 21:58 RogerChillingworth wrote: LOL. Wives, man. Light really has looked weak for a while. All the Terrans slumping. Light, Effort etc lol gotta marry right | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21800 Posts
This game is over right? edit: yes, its incredibly over.. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
GG WP to Larva tho, he definitely did not make it easy | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
wasn't effort the problem there? | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13113 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
On September 16 2025 22:05 BLinD-RawR wrote: valks just hanging like dead weight bro just kill some ovies or something 4 or 5 valks jsut doing NOTHING plus horizontal spawn with Terran disadvantageous position and he has no scout or vision at 12? like idk wtf he was doing this game, probably losing to Soma boomed him or something | ||
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barcodejester
24 Posts
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Sorusaba
289 Posts
On September 16 2025 21:00 Sorusaba wrote: Imagine a universe where BarrackS is the only terran in the ro8... IT HAPPENED | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7904 Posts
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SCRVN
80 Posts
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BoesFX
1456 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
iirc the wife had a meltdown or something and threatened to kill herself and stuff? shit was kinda crazy | ||
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
1-1-1 is 100% figured out 8 rax is easily countered a Bisu type of revolution is needed, or they gotta dig into some of the older builds | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1737 Posts
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Toshinou-Kyouko
Philippines296 Posts
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Toshinou-Kyouko
Philippines296 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia368 Posts
Barracks Mini Bisu Effort Snow Larva Soma Best Absolute favorite to win if he can avoid zvz is Soma. | ||
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TMNT
2838 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia368 Posts
On September 16 2025 22:14 TMNT wrote: I've never seen Light showing that much emotion on camera. He's always been a poker face guy. He looks like he's so fed up with Starcraft today. Wouldn't be surprised if he takes another long break after this. You forgot his two infested ccs VS jaedong  | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44609 Posts
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TMNT
2838 Posts
Bisu vs Mini Snow vs Best Rax vs Larva Just for the banter lol | ||
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RogerChillingworth
3008 Posts
On September 16 2025 22:09 konadora wrote: Terrans really need to step up, their play is getting too predictable 1-1-1 is 100% figured out 8 rax is easily countered a Bisu type of revolution is needed, or they gotta dig into some of the older builds So many variations of 1-1-1 though. Need Royal to do a bit better. I think Rush is too predictable. Would have liked to see 1 or 2 of these amateur Terrans make it instead of the seeded laurel-resters, although they play more modern mechanical styles afaik. sSak entering some god mode, Royal, FlaSh, one or two others... would be fine. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
On September 16 2025 22:16 RogerChillingworth wrote: So many variations of 1-1-1 though. Need Royal to do a bit better. I think Rush is too predictable. Would have liked to see 1 or 2 of these amateur Terrans make it instead of the seeded laurel-resters, although they play more modern mechanical styles afaik. sSak entering some god mode, Royal, FlaSh, one or two others... would be fine. Royal can play insanely well on a good day, but he's sooooo damn inconsistent and would often make sure amateur mistakes or micro misplays. he's super hot and cold, he just needs to work on his consistency | ||
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Toshinou-Kyouko
Philippines296 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
last one is Bisu vs Larva | ||
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Zografa
211 Posts
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iFU.pauline
France1614 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia368 Posts
On September 16 2025 22:13 Rainalcar wrote: My guess! Barracks Mini Bisu Effort Snow Larva Soma Best Absolute favorite to win if he can avoid zvz is Soma. Heck I was so close! | ||
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Toshinou-Kyouko
Philippines296 Posts
I am expecting Mini and Soma to win their matchups | ||
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
Snow vs Effort Soma vs Best Bisu vs Larva how i expect things to go, although i do hope Snow and Best to win because i just want to see Protoss win during the fall | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia368 Posts
Snow, at least I hope Soma for sure Bisu Larva is a tossup I'll say Mini Snow Soma Bisu Snow Soma Soma (fuck zvp) | ||
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RogerChillingworth
3008 Posts
Feels like a SnOw or Mini vs soma finals. I'm not complaining. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands953 Posts
On September 16 2025 22:24 Rainalcar wrote: I would expect Mini, but Barracks has a chance. Snow, at least I hope Soma for sure Bisu Larva is a tossup My Predictions: Barracks 45/55 Mini SnOw 60/40 EffOrt Best 40/60 SoMa Bisu 60/40 Larva | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1614 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6635 Posts
Snow vs Effort is actually very dangerous for Snow LOL. Soma vs Best Soma taking it Bisu vs Larva. Bisu is proly very happy right now lol. I think this ASL will go like this Semis Effort/Snow vs Mini Soma vs Bisu Final Mini/Snow vs Soma | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1737 Posts
On September 16 2025 22:09 LightSpectra wrote: I would honestly rather watch a PvP and ZvZ gauntlet than a dozen hydra bust games in a row tbh Sigh | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia368 Posts
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BoesFX
1456 Posts
On September 16 2025 22:28 Rainalcar wrote: Anyone remembers protoss wining a bo7 pvz? Best vs Queen | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia368 Posts
True, nice! Hope remains while the company is true | ||
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TMNT
2838 Posts
If Bisu/Larva can't knock Soma out, he'll eat the Protoss players from the other bracket. Bisu is actually the only Protoss who has a winning record (or maybe it was 50/50) against Soma so he has the best chance. Soma vs Snow is 65/35 in win rate. I think similar for Mini. Btw, Best has no chance. Ironically, if Bisu knocks Soma out and faces Snow/Mini in the finals, well... | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4123 Posts
On September 16 2025 22:43 Rainalcar wrote: True, nice! Hope remains while the company is true Honestly, the Soulkey vs Snow and Best series (and Best vs Queen) from the last season kind of implied that is possible that maybe Protosses actually found a way to battle the Zergs in long BoX series. As someone mentioned, both of the series were 3:2 for the Protoss vs the mother fucking Soulkey with a free win zerg map in the pool. Protoss needed just 1 win out of 4 games to get a championship, however, Soulkey is Soulkey or perhaps ZvP was just ZvP. So in the next round (or couple of rounds) of the current ASL we will actually be able to see if Protosses really stabilized the match up or the last season was more of fluke. | ||
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TMNT
2838 Posts
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pseudosignal
37 Posts
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Shinokuki
United States886 Posts
On September 16 2025 22:06 barcodejester wrote: damn 1 terran in top 8. the era of zerg will continue i suppose. getting kinda boring with zerg dominating everything Zerg dominating?? when only soulkey was able to do it and all the rounds before finals was full of toss/terrans? | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1737 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:05 TMNT wrote: Expect some heated debates here next weeks since we have 3 PvZ series lol. "PvZ is imbalanced" isn't even worth discussing anymore, the statistics speak for themselves. "90% of PvZ games being a hydra bust or cannon/zealot rush fucking sucks" is what we should be talking about | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4123 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:21 LightSpectra wrote: "90% of PvZ games being a hydra bust or cannon/zealot rush fucking sucks" is what we should be talking about What should we talk about it? Its the only all in strat in the whole game which does not hurt the aggressor when it does not work. | ||
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Shinokuki
United States886 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:21 LightSpectra wrote: "PvZ is imbalanced" isn't even worth discussing anymore, the statistics speak for themselves. "90% of PvZ games being a hydra bust or cannon/zealot rush fucking sucks" is what we should be talking about PvZ is really good for P nowadays. There are so many uninformed people saying pvz imba without even playing the games themselves. Lot of zerg pros themselves think zvp is harder than zvt and sometimes feel zvp is a puzzle to still solve. can't wait to prove TMNT wrong when protoss wins 2/3 next week and also people saying zergs are dominating!! It's literally people who grinded who qualified into RO8. Ever since larva came back, he's been grinding crap ton of games and laddering a lot Ever since Effort came back, he's been participating in kleagues religiously everyday Ever since Soma came back, he's had the most amount of games played out of all god tiers Same goes for snow, mini, barracks Light took a break and barely played the past 2 months. So did soulkey. Let's not discredit the grinders who put in the work and tryna blame Z IMBA for some reason lol | ||
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RogerChillingworth
3008 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:21 LightSpectra wrote: "90% of PvZ games being a hydra bust or cannon/zealot rush fucking sucks" is what we should be talking about Definitely better than talking about balance. The map discussion is more interesting to me, though. Maps and adjusting the veto rules in tournaments. If every season we can get solid, interesting maps that encourage meta shifts and offer some cool stuff for players to chew on, I can see a lot of minor issues being solved all at once. | ||
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TMNT
2838 Posts
[B]On September 16 2025 23:27 Shinokuki wrote: can't wait to prove TMNT wrong when protoss wins 2/3 next week That's not how you prove me or anyone else wrong lol. By that same principle, you can say that since Soulkey beat Protoss multiple times to win ASL, ZvP is imba. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1737 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:31 RogerChillingworth wrote: Definitely better than talking about balance. The map discussion is more interesting to me, though. Maps and adjusting the veto rules in tournaments. If every season we can get solid, interesting maps that encourage meta shifts and offer some cool stuff for players to chew on, I can see a lot of minor issues being solved all at once. I'm not clear how a map is supposed to discourage hydra busts without inadvertently screwing TvZ or PvT balance. Like, Pole Star is bad for hydra busting but it's fucking awful for PvT. | ||
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Shinokuki
United States886 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:40 TMNT wrote: That's not how you prove me or anyone else wrong lol. By that same principle, you can say that since Soulkey beat Protoss multiple times to win ASL, ZvP is imba. Soulkey winning was all him basically. He was just so much superior while other zergs failed to make it. All other zergs losing to protoss kinda proves the point. But I'm curious as to how the games will go on these maps. Probably similar to how it went for queen. | ||
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TMNT
2838 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:45 LightSpectra wrote: I'm not clear how a map is supposed to discourage hydra busts without inadvertently screwing TvZ or PvT balance. Like, Pole Star is bad for hydra busting but it's fucking awful for PvT. Don't you mean Knockout with the trend in front of the nat? Polestar seems like a normal map for hydra bust to me. | ||
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iopq
United States953 Posts
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mtcn77
Turkey439 Posts
On September 16 2025 22:59 TMNT wrote: Rain beat Soma in a Bo7 in his first season coming back too. If Bisu/Larva can't knock Soma out, he'll eat the Protoss players from the other bracket. Bisu is actually the only Protoss who has a winning record (or maybe it was 50/50) against Soma so he has the best chance. Soma vs Snow is 65/35 in win rate. I think similar for Mini. Btw, Best has no chance. Ironically, if Bisu knocks Soma out and faces Snow/Mini in the finals, well... I still don't see why nobody roots for Bisu the king. | ||
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88)trAncE
1 Post
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konadora
Singapore66224 Posts
On September 17 2025 00:15 iopq wrote: Where are all the Soma-is-overrated people now? people must be mad for thinking Soma is overrated lmao | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4123 Posts
On September 17 2025 00:15 iopq wrote: Where are all the Soma-is-overrated people now? Well Soma is definitely not overrated, its crazy to think otherwise, however, in regards to these games, he won vs I am coming from a long hiatus Lavra and I don't know what I am doing here today Light. Not exactly a very stable basis for conclusions if you ask me | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey439 Posts
On September 17 2025 01:46 88)trAncE wrote: Bisu will be in final Wohoo! Bisu king will dethrone Larva in an epic battle. | ||
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Just_a_Moth
Canada1956 Posts
On September 17 2025 01:46 88)trAncE wrote: Bisu will be in final Alas... I ain't no Bisu fanboy...but let me tell you something bruh... Light's out.. when the world's dark revolutionaries shine bright. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands953 Posts
On September 17 2025 02:01 M2 wrote: Well Soma is definitely not overrated, its crazy to think otherwise, however, in regards to these games, he won vs I am coming from a long hiatus Lavra and I don't know what I am doing here today Light. Not exactly a very stable basis for conclusions if you ask me Larva has been back since November. Xun and Saiyan WAY OVERSELL their narratives to the point of almost pure fabrication. Saiyan does it less than Xun. Larva has grinded double the amount of games of the next person currently in a Ro8. He had days where he played 30-40 games vs a pro. nobody comes even close. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13980 Posts
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oxKnu
1189 Posts
I have Snow vs Soma in the finals. It's the most likely scenario. Snow is a PvP god so there's not much that can stand in his way if he doesn't fumble badly in PvZ. It's a PvZ so nothing's easy but I think this time around he has enough experience and the maps are also not punishing for P for once. Both Best and Larva have no chance imo. Actually is there a way to bet on these games? I'm serious. Bonus: Barracks is not going to be a complete walkover for Mini, far from it. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4017 Posts
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TMNT
2838 Posts
Mini and Snow are tier 1 while Barracks and Effort are tier 1.5 Bisu is also tier 1 but for Larva it's hard to say where he is now. When he first returned he was a bit of a punching bag for tier 1 players but it's different now. But even if he has regained his full form, he's always been the underdog to Bisu. Best can't win a Bo7 vs Soma that's very clear. | ||
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CHEONSOYUN
535 Posts
just forced light into a high pressure base-trade scenario every game. | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7805 Posts
I’m expecting Barracks to get rolled by Mini 4-1 but I hope I’m wrong and that it’s a close series. All the other series seem 50/50ish to me. Maybe Bisu is favored vs Larva but it’s been a long time since he’s made a deep run in a starleague so…. we’ll see. If you put a gun to my head… Barracks < Mini Snow < Effort Soma < Best Bisu < Larva | ||
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RogerChillingworth
3008 Posts
On September 17 2025 04:09 Vasoline73 wrote: Kind of a crazy Ro8. I’m expecting Barracks to get rolled by Mini 4-1 but I hope I’m wrong and that it’s a close series. All the other series seem 50/50ish to me. Maybe Bisu is favored vs Larva but it’s been a long time since he’s made a deep run in a starleague so…. we’ll see. If you put a gun to my head… Barracks < Mini Snow < Effort Soma < Best Bisu < Larva Gun to your head and you're goin with THAT? Hope it's not loaded, brother. Agreed about Mini vs Barracks though, except I do hope Barracks gets rolled. I hope it's 4 to -1 and Mini wins every game with the first zealot. Literal steaming crater in the studio where the booth used to be. I dno about you guys but ASL keeps my mind off the end of the world. Need 3 of these a year. | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey439 Posts
On September 17 2025 04:09 Vasoline73 wrote: Kind of a crazy Ro8. I’m expecting Barracks to get rolled by Mini 4-1 but I hope I’m wrong and that it’s a close series. All the other series seem 50/50ish to me. Maybe Bisu is favored vs Larva but it’s been a long time since he’s made a deep run in a starleague so…. we’ll see. If you put a gun to my head… Barracks < Mini Snow < Effort Soma < Best Bisu < Larva There is the odd chance he skips templar tech, I give you that. Mini skipped upgrades and didn't skip a beat vs Ssak. So far, only Mini can pull out a "Royal" and win. | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey439 Posts
On September 17 2025 04:55 RogerChillingworth wrote: Gun to your head and you're goin with THAT? Hope it's not loaded, brother. Agreed about Mini vs Barracks though, except I do hope Barracks gets rolled. I hope it's 4 to -1 and Mini wins every game with the first zealot. Literal steaming crater in the studio where the booth used to be. I dno about you guys but ASL keeps my mind off the end of the world. Need 3 of these a year. Are you McAfee camp, or bitcoin camp? Moneros are the end of the world currency! Totootoo! Bitcoin is fluff. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
3008 Posts
On September 17 2025 05:02 mtcn77 wrote: Are you McAfee camp, or bitcoin camp? Moneros are the end of the world currency! Totootoo! Bitcoin is fluff. I'm in the find a place in the woods and read books by dead people camp. BTW I've never seen anyone color pick white in tournament matches, or really any match. Is it banned? White's such a good color in SC. Yellow too. The one redeeming thing about Light today was that yellow Terran OH that was nasty. Was HOT. This thread is about colors now. It also got me thinking we don't have any snow maps. I get it hurts people's eyes but what is life without a snow map. What is life at all. What is love. But srsly. Little spice...little zest. Doesn't hurt. I've got many questions. I could keep going but I'll stop now. or maybe i'll keep going..down here..in the 6 pt....Another question I have is...........WHY.....just why?? No my question is..... why is PvT so bad? ? ?? And why... is protoss so much better than zerg???? | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7805 Posts
On September 17 2025 04:55 RogerChillingworth wrote: Gun to your head and you're goin with THAT? Hope it's not loaded, brother. Agreed about Mini vs Barracks though, except I do hope Barracks gets rolled. I hope it's 4 to -1 and Mini wins every game with the first zealot. Literal steaming crater in the studio where the booth used to be. I dno about you guys but ASL keeps my mind off the end of the world. Need 3 of these a year. Best < Soma and Larva < Bisu are probably safer choices but I’ll look cool for putting my life on the line if my original predictions play out :D. Gotta make life and death interesting… | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey439 Posts
TvT is such a sophisticated matchup like gentlemen firing at each other in turns. Then, Larva comes, skips pool, 3-hatches Light. LOL! PS: damn, I'm such a genius once again. Guessing the build that won a contender. On September 07 2025 00:10 mtcn77 wrote: I disagree. I said it before, mapmakers can't manipulate matchup weights. Best they can do is increase distance in which case better players exploit it better. You get impossible builds like hatchery first. I salute Larva, though. Not even I could guess 3-hatch. Looks like the matchups are indicating that the maps are too big - like I previously indicated. Mapmakers! | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4208 Posts
But we will see about that  | ||
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Ideas
United States8122 Posts
Light is one of those players that seems to rarely perform as well as he should offline (outside of the ASL and KSL seasons that he won lol). | ||
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Highgamer
1418 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/t5Lxdt8/Clam.jpg) Is this some kind of inside-joke or did he just write Calm's name wrong? If s. o. could explain/translate plz. Thx | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5129 Posts
On September 17 2025 06:48 Highgamer wrote: Is this some kind of inside-joke or did he just write Calm's name wrong? If s. o. could explain/translate plz. Thx Not sure if high or not high enough. Anyway... That's the correct spelling. | ||
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Highgamer
1418 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13113 Posts
Snow > Effort (if he can effectively deal with muta HT snipes) Soma > Best (noting Soma’s love for early mutas we may get some interesting DA builds from Best). Bisu <> Larva (I really don’t know about this one. Larva has a great grasp of this matchup, but Bisu looking really solid so far too. I think Larva will play muta heavy and we'll see how Bisu deals with it). In summary, I expect we’ll see lots of mutas. | ||
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Ideas
United States8122 Posts
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Lazyer
United States352 Posts
I'm in on Barracks making it to the finals, then losing. Gotta put my points where my heart is. The four Protosses making it from the Ro24 all the way to Ro8 is amazing, the legend of the fall is here, but I don't know if it'll pull thru for a champ even though it's been years since our last Protoss champion. Barracks > Mini Effort > Snow soma > Best Bisu > Larva Barracks > Effort soma > Bisu soma > Barracks It's soma's ASL!!! He is BACK | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1775 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
On September 17 2025 06:48 Highgamer wrote: Is this some kind of inside-joke or did he just write Calm's name wrong? If s. o. could explain/translate plz. Thx not really an inside joke, at least not outside TL(you'd see people say lolclam whenever he lost), but even kespa would spell Calm as Clam occasionally back in the day. I asked Waxangel for the translation. Clam : 'fake jaedong (soma), keep DMing me if you want to win I'll give you builds' or something like that | ||
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Highgamer
1418 Posts
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gravity
Australia1926 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:45 LightSpectra wrote: I'm not clear how a map is supposed to discourage hydra busts without inadvertently screwing TvZ or PvT balance. Like, Pole Star is bad for hydra busting but it's fucking awful for PvT. I wonder if matchup-specific maps would work? (would need to ban Random of course, but nobody plays that anyway). | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey439 Posts
On September 17 2025 16:34 gravity wrote: I wonder if matchup-specific maps would work? (would need to ban Random of course, but nobody plays that anyway). Maps are too big. Nothing can change that unless we have more 2 and 3 player maps. PS: what was wrong with Eclipse? Perfect map! I recall every game played there last season had excellent game variation. There was the amazing siege tank runby of Light vs Tyson and other amazing base trades I forgot. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands953 Posts
On September 17 2025 09:30 Lazyer wrote: Games today were great, though Light was playing kinda strangely in TvZ. Larva showing he can clean house just as well as when he retired, the 4pool was funny af. I'm in on Barracks making it to the finals, then losing. Gotta put my points where my heart is. The four Protosses making it from the Ro24 all the way to Ro8 is amazing, the legend of the fall is here, but I don't know if it'll pull thru for a champ even though it's been years since our last Protoss champion. Barracks > Mini Effort > Snow soma > Best Bisu > Larva Barracks > Effort soma > Bisu soma > Barracks It's soma's ASL!!! He is BACK you know only two protoss from Ro24 made it to Ro8. The other two were Ro16 seeded. Also Light didnt really play strange. Larva cheesed a fast 3rd and got away with it unpunished. That gave Larva a huge lead. Light had to play from behind and take risks or lose. Risks didnt pay off and he lost. Mini vs Barracks will be fun but is Mini favored. Effort over SnOw is a ballsy prediction. Soma over best seems what everyone is predicting and I too am on this bandwagon. Bisu seems favored vs Larva. But Larva might surprise us again. | ||
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Kraekkling
450 Posts
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DoctorLife
8 Posts
Other than that I'm predicting protoss to win the other three ro8 matches. Then I think Bisu is actually somewhat favored against Soma. I think the most likely Grandfinals at this point is Snow v Bisu, with Snow taking it. | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey439 Posts
Effort > Snow soma > Best Bisu < Larva Roast me. | ||
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kidleaderr
364 Posts
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Miragee
8552 Posts
Those drawings for the Ro8 must have been close to the worst possible outcome for the protoss players, except for Bisu maybe. My predictions are: Barracks<Mini Snow<Effort Soma>Best Bisu>Larva But each match could go either way imho because Mini is so volatile and Bisu tends to suck vs tricky plays... | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands953 Posts
On September 17 2025 23:44 kidleaderr wrote: light has always been one of the most overrated terrans Light seems to need the comfort of his home set-up. With his home set-up and proper activity he is champion material. Offline he seems to fumble but Dont know the exact reason why. Does he overthink? Get nervous? does he lose his mental edge? | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21800 Posts
On September 17 2025 23:44 kidleaderr wrote: This wasn't being overrated. He just completely lost the will to live in that final set.light has always been one of the most overrated terrans kinda sad really. | ||
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TMNT
2838 Posts
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Highgamer
1418 Posts
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iopq
United States953 Posts
On September 16 2025 23:27 M2 wrote: What should we talk about it? Its the only all in strat in the whole game which does not hurt the aggressor when it does not work. What are you talking about? Going all-in muta vs. Terran usually doesn't hurt the Zerg at all, when Terran recovers the Zerg just shrugs and makes a hydra den and queen's nest. The same way a Protoss is FORCED into a bunch of cannons, the Terran is FORCED into a bunch of turrets even if the Zerg does nothing special with muta. By the same token, just throwing zealots at the Zerg usually forces so many lings it pays for itself, even if you kill no drones. Just the lost mining time running them away from the third or natural and zergling losses from having to kill them behind minerals is already worth it. This whole game is about pressuring your opponent while getting ahead behind it. Nobody plays NR 10 anymore | ||
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ahwala
Germany393 Posts
I had soma locked in for the ro8, disappointed by Light's performance, but man, Larva made this day a fucking treat. Great stuff. Looking forward to every single ro8 match; unpredictable for me. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
3008 Posts
On September 17 2025 22:03 Kraekkling wrote: soma is about to enter his bonjwa phase Yea i want soma to win. I love the way his hand shakes after every game. And his overbitie gamerface. Can't not root for him. Just a 16/10 all around. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11058 Posts
On September 18 2025 00:08 Miragee wrote: I cannot believe Larva won 2-0 over Light. Dang. Those drawings for the Ro8 must have been close to the worst possible outcome for the protoss players, except for Bisu maybe. My predictions are: Barracks<Mini Snow<Effort Soma>Best Bisu>Larva But each match could go either way imho because Mini is so volatile and Bisu tends to suck vs tricky plays... I think that's put well. Snow could have lucked into a PvP or PvT but got a PvZ instead. Still he looked damn impressive last season so it has some promise. Mini who knows but could credible collapse to anyone on his day. I still think his PvZ is terrifying. Best isn't that great. Never has been that great. Bisu surprised me with how strong he was. Very curious if that continues. Going Barracks < Mini {Mini is too much though I think decent chance of an upset} Snow > Effort {Heart for my boy. Effort might not be back to his old level yet} Soma > Best {Soma is so scary.} Bisu < Larva {Old man Larva just too much in PvZ} | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4859 Posts
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TMNT
2838 Posts
On September 18 2025 14:40 iopq wrote: What are you talking about? Going all-in muta vs. Terran usually doesn't hurt the Zerg at all, when Terran recovers the Zerg just shrugs and makes a hydra den and queen's nest. The same way a Protoss is FORCED into a bunch of cannons, the Terran is FORCED into a bunch of turrets even if the Zerg does nothing special with muta. By the same token, just throwing zealots at the Zerg usually forces so many lings it pays for itself, even if you kill no drones. Just the lost mining time running them away from the third or natural and zergling losses from having to kill them behind minerals is already worth it. This whole game is about pressuring your opponent while getting ahead behind it. Nobody plays NR 10 anymore What are you talking about actually? I feel like this is a super oversimplification of the game which is either not true or only applicable to low rank games. How can going all in with Mutas vs Terran doesn't hurt the Zerg at all. That's a shocking statement. If you don't trade Mutas with MM/Turrets efficiently, one counter push and they stim past your Sunkens. If you do nothing with your Mutas, they lose value significantly once Irradiate is out. The same dynamics can't be applied in 3H Hydra vs Protoss. Cannons are twice more expensive than Turrets. Terran doesn't have to delay Barracks or lose +1 upgrade for Turrets. If you do nothing with Hydras, they are still the mainstay of your army later. Throwing Zealots at Zerg doesn't usually pay for itself. It's all about whether you can trade efficiently or not, i.e. if you can sneak a Zealot out undetected, or have better positioning/micro. Zergs at the top level don't overbuild Lings for the sake of it like a D ranker. You can find many games at pro level where Protoss is in deep shit later on if their first Zealots get caught without trading well. In a way the Zealots vs Lings dynamics in early game PvZ is similar to the Mutas vs MM/Turrets dynamics in ZvT, i.e. you get the better trade, hence getting ahead, by having better skills than your opponent. You talked as if just by producing some Zealots/Mutas and send them across the map without achieving anything doesn't hurt the Protoss/Zerg. | ||
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Artas1984
131 Posts
Predicted ASL20 finals - footclap chad gamer (Snow) vs. footstar chad gamer (Larva)! | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4208 Posts
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TornadoSteve
1070 Posts
bye | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey439 Posts
On September 18 2025 19:43 TMNT wrote: What are you talking about actually? I feel like this is a super oversimplification of the game which is either not true or only applicable to low rank games. How can going all in with Mutas vs Terran doesn't hurt the Zerg at all. That's a shocking statement. If you don't trade Mutas with MM/Turrets efficiently, one counter push and they stim past your Sunkens. If you do nothing with your Mutas, they lose value significantly once Irradiate is out. The same dynamics can't be applied in 3H Hydra vs Protoss. Cannons are twice more expensive than Turrets. Terran doesn't have to delay Barracks or lose +1 upgrade for Turrets. If you do nothing with Hydras, they are still the mainstay of your army later. Throwing Zealots at Zerg doesn't usually pay for itself. It's all about whether you can trade efficiently or not, i.e. if you can sneak a Zealot out undetected, or have better positioning/micro. Zergs at the top level don't overbuild Lings for the sake of it like a D ranker. You can find many games at pro level where Protoss is in deep shit later on if their first Zealots get caught without trading well. In a way the Zealots vs Lings dynamics in early game PvZ is similar to the Mutas vs MM/Turrets dynamics in ZvT, i.e. you get the better trade, hence getting ahead, by having better skills than your opponent. You talked as if just by producing some Zealots/Mutas and send them across the map without achieving anything doesn't hurt the Protoss/Zerg. You have a huge bias against protoss early game. I have said again and again, those players who don't follow on your lead are the best players of this generation: Mini, Bisu and now Best. I hope you correct your statements. Besides, protoss early game is as dependent on good preparation as timing builds that Larva uses. There is literally ZERO difference at the amount of intuition protoss players have to use, yet Larva is the only player through sheer memorisation and judgement that make the same incredible feats of game preparation and everybody celebrates it since he is zerg. Best almost won last season through zealots alone. Let protoss thrive for God's sake. | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey439 Posts
On September 19 2025 00:29 Artas1984 wrote: Love how Larva proved every caster wrong about his round of 8 outcome! LARVA! Lim Hong Gyu! NR. 1 TOP ZERG - that is how he used to call himself before winning his ASL! Predicted ASL20 finals - footclap chad gamer (Snow) vs. footstar chad gamer (Larva)! I don't have a good read on terran players and most protoss players. Fortunately, terrans have proved me right and totally lost course lately; however Snow is one player that totally skips my radar. How can he play so slow yet so steady? Is he the protoss Boxer? I cannot claim he does wrong since he omits much dragoon pressure, since dragoons are rarely the right unit, however he never had that star sense for me. Much like Soulkey, however Soulkey had a july side, too. Snow is just bland except for his recent carrier play. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13980 Posts
On September 19 2025 05:58 mtcn77 wrote: I don't have a good read on terran players and most protoss players. Fortunately, terrans have proved me right and totally lost course lately; however Snow is one player that totally skips my radar. How can he play so slow yet so steady? Is he the protoss Boxer? I cannot claim he does wrong since he omits much dragoon pressure, since dragoons are rarely the right unit, however he never had that star sense for me. Much like Soulkey, however Soulkey had a july side, too. Snow is just bland except for his recent carrier play. Calling the guy famous for 20 kill reavers bland is certainly a take. | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey439 Posts
On September 19 2025 10:36 Cricketer12 wrote: Calling the guy famous for 20 kill reavers bland is certainly a take. Boxer did as much dropship play as Snow did in his career. You don't see people calling him better than flash do you? | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13980 Posts
On September 19 2025 10:53 mtcn77 wrote: Boxer did as much dropship play as Snow did in his career. You don't see people calling him better than flash do you? You're changing the goalpost. I commented on you calling him bland. Blandness has no correlation to skill level. | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey439 Posts
On September 19 2025 11:12 Cricketer12 wrote: You're changing the goalpost. I commented on you calling him bland. Blandness has no correlation to skill level. I'm going to change the goalpost again if I can remember which game had 22 vs 9 reavers, or the most reavers in a game. It was a battlereports. Reavers are a means to an end. They don't mean any more than Teolbo's loss to Light last season. Reavers lose 3+ probes mining time each. The game I couldn't recall ended with one or both sides running out of minerals. Wish I recalled... | ||
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iopq
United States953 Posts
On September 18 2025 19:43 TMNT wrote: What are you talking about actually? I feel like this is a super oversimplification of the game which is either not true or only applicable to low rank games. How can going all in with Mutas vs Terran doesn't hurt the Zerg at all. That's a shocking statement. If you don't trade Mutas with MM/Turrets efficiently, one counter push and they stim past your Sunkens. If you do nothing with your Mutas, they lose value significantly once Irradiate is out. The same dynamics can't be applied in 3H Hydra vs Protoss. Cannons are twice more expensive than Turrets. Terran doesn't have to delay Barracks or lose +1 upgrade for Turrets. If you do nothing with Hydras, they are still the mainstay of your army later. Throwing Zealots at Zerg doesn't usually pay for itself. It's all about whether you can trade efficiently or not, i.e. if you can sneak a Zealot out undetected, or have better positioning/micro. Zergs at the top level don't overbuild Lings for the sake of it like a D ranker. You can find many games at pro level where Protoss is in deep shit later on if their first Zealots get caught without trading well. In a way the Zealots vs Lings dynamics in early game PvZ is similar to the Mutas vs MM/Turrets dynamics in ZvT, i.e. you get the better trade, hence getting ahead, by having better skills than your opponent. You talked as if just by producing some Zealots/Mutas and send them across the map without achieving anything doesn't hurt the Protoss/Zerg. If you try to attack with hydras and don't kill the protoss and you're still on 20 drones (made two more hatcheries while spending all the gas on hydra) you're dead Just watch any SK game where he tries the all-in attack and protoss had enough not to die - even he can't macro out of it. If you don't ATTACK with the hydra and the Protoss made his +1 offset next to his cannons, that's not an "all-in" at all So let's talk about two different scenarios: 1. Zerg makes 8-12 hydra and immediately drones and goes lair, never jumps on cannons and picks off only the gateway. This is just a bog standard pressure build hoping Protoss makes 7 cannons instead of like 3 2. Zerg makes 30+ hydra and attacks the Protoss cannons - if the Zerg fails to do any damage he's dead. If he trades well and Protoss has to sacrifice probes to live he's even, but he's really looking to kill the Protoss. This is not risk-free at all, it would be crazy to make 30+ hydra and not attack because they won't trade well against storm (you don't have muta sniping templars because you didn't get Lair quick) There's a 1.5 scenario where the Zerg just wants Protoss to make more cannons and to kill the cannons protecting the +1 upgrade, but makes more like 20 hydra. But in this case it's based on micro and positioning, just like getting muta against Terran. If the Protoss loses +1 and has to rebuild cannons, it's a Zerg advantage, if the Zerg runs up into a bad engage with the cannons and doesn't get it anyway, it's Protoss advantaged. In the same way, mass muta can trade well vs. turrets and the Zerg can build mass sunkens against the M&M pressure (like Soma did) or they can make lings and clean up the ball (Soulkey style) at the top level, pros ALWAYS send zealots against Zerg it's considered disadvantaged if you do not do it | ||
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TMNT
2838 Posts
On September 19 2025 15:32 iopq wrote: If you try to attack with hydras and don't kill the protoss and you're still on 20 drones (made two more hatcheries while spending all the gas on hydra) you're dead Just watch any SK game where he tries the all-in attack and protoss had enough not to die - even he can't macro out of it. If you don't ATTACK with the hydra and the Protoss made his +1 offset next to his cannons, that's not an "all-in" at all I mean, yeah, you're dead if you jump on the cannons and don't kill or deal significant damage to Protoss. But the original statement of LightSpectra is technically incorrect (or he doesn't mean it that way) and certainly not what I mean. The correct statement is "it's the only strat in the game with the potential to kill immediately but the aggressor still has the option to back off and transition to a macro game". When you look at it that way, there's certainly no comparable strat. What are the other strats with potential to kill immediately: 4 pool, proxy 9 9, BBS, some variations of 2 Hatch play, some variations of DT rush, 2 Rax, 2 Fac, 3 Gate Goon on 1 base vs T... You can't do one of those builds and go "nah I'm not gonna commit to the all in I'm gonna match him with my macro now". Muta all-in in ZvT is the equivalent of the 3HH version where you jump onto the cannons so you can't say Zerg is still fine with if the Muta all-in doesn't work. But regular Muta opening is not equal to the 3HH version where you back off, for reasons I've said before, plus the most important thing: Protoss doesn't know if Hydras are coming but Terran does know the Mutas are coming (i.e. the tools to survive are already in place for Terran). And I mean, there's a reason that in 20+ years of this game, there's no such thing called a "Muta bust", nor have we seen Mutas killing Terran outright in the same frequency we've seen Hydras busting through a few cannons being warped in. Any attempt to draw similarities is ridiculous. About the different scenarios you laid out. I don't want to go into details (like if Zerg makes x Hydras and Protoss makes y Cannons etc.) but there are for sure more than the 3 scenarios you described, depending on the dynamics of each game and how the early game goes as well. But what's most important is Zerg gets to dictate those scenarios i.e. they get to choose how many Hydras they make. If they sense not enough Cannons, they can go for the kill and if they don't feel like it's possible they can drone up. It's not like the other all-in builds I mentioned above that once you make the buildings, there's no return. You make the point about Hydras dying to storm. Well yeah, as if in 3H Spire into 5H Hydra they don't? Still better to have 30 Hydras to fight Zealots behind sim city and dodge storms using your skill, than have a bunch of stacked Mutas that Terran can render useless in one click. | ||
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iopq
United States953 Posts
On September 19 2025 17:07 TMNT wrote: The correct statement is "it's the only strat in the game with the potential to kill immediately but the aggressor still has the option to back off and transition to a macro game". Making 20 muta vs. Terran is exactly like this, you can be very aggressive with it, or you can put on pressure and transition A quick +1 corsair/zealot timing is also exactly like this, you can either kill the zerg or just supply block him so he can't drone after the attack and don't tell me we don't see wins like this in the ASL | ||
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TMNT
2838 Posts
On September 19 2025 17:45 iopq wrote: Making 20 muta vs. Terran is exactly like this, you can be very aggressive with it, or you can put on pressure and transition A quick +1 corsair/zealot timing is also exactly like this, you can either kill the zerg or just supply block him so he can't drone after the attack and don't tell me we don't see wins like this in the ASL If they are "exactly" like 3H Hydra, why don't we see more Terran/Zerg dying to "Muta bust" and "Zealot bust". If you're using this logic, basically any build where you make units and attack fits the description. Once again, it's super oversimplification. | ||
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