On May 30 2025 18:00 TMNT wrote: mtcn doesn't differentiate between concepts. Earlier he just proved it by associating giving up a game with throwing, prediction with analysis. Now he thinks getting some good maestroms = revolutionize PvZ. When people talk about a trend he talks about one single game. With that way of thinking of course he considers best most skilled and most accomplished the same concept, hence his claim about Shuttle.
That's why it's so difficult to keep up with his thoughts. Whether that is his intention or not, it makes him troll-like and just distracts the thread further and further.
People can agree or disagree with me but I presented well articulated thoughts about the games in the finals and semifinals. It's the shitposts from the Zerg fans like mtcn, eon and sziky that downgrades the thread quality.
And you are the funny dude who thinks just because Snow won SOME GAMES in PvT matchup he is the prince that was promised. No, that is still Best and I bet we will see more of him in the future. PS: it is also ironic to be gaslighting three other members with a trolling accusation while flamebaiting with words like "shitposting" in the same post.
On May 30 2025 10:04 ShowTheLights wrote: BeSt was the protagonist of this season.
Bad ending.
No chance he makes it back to a finals ever again. Not after this heartbreak. A player like BeSt needed EVERYTHING to go right to get here and I just cant see that happening again unforunately
I cannot believe how people don't see how Best revolutionised PvZ with his DA play in ASL15 Ro8. That was 4 seasons ago. Do you remember how he dispatched Action that season? He is also the match of Stork in crazy berserking in PvT. He is really the match of Soulkey who himself reinvented queens.
Best never revolutionized anything. People only associate DA with him because he does it more than others. In fact SoulKey is hyper-aware of it and easily outplays Best's DA by always having two groups of mutas.
We would see about that in a corner base map with zero maneuverability for mutalisks. SK didn't beat Best using mutalisks. Best made a mistake by expanding into SK's 3 oclock direction.
I'm not talking about why Best did or didn't win games. I'm talking about your claim. DA is not Best's invention, he just likes to use it.
Yes it is. Watch this game and tell me if there ever was a pro who used DAs like he does. He shuts zerg swarm dead in its tracks.
All of the top protoss players have done it the way he does it. The only reason why you don't see it from them is because zerg players are generally cautious enough to not move their whole army in one singular clump right into a heavily fortified protoss base. Action decided to be funny and we got a hilarious moment. There's nothing revolutionary about that. What you're showing us is not a highlight of Best, but a low point of Action. You're just perceiving it differently because you don't know what it looks like when a zerg player actually plays the game well.
It is interesting to be citing the game as Action's low point when I have watched all game to see an Action victory. You guys really don't see eye to eye with the viewpoints you present. No zerg sees fault in zerg perspective, it is always the next strike that will break the protoss front.
Out of curiosity, can you or anyone else explain to me what mtcn's trying to say in this post? Like, break down sentence by sentence.
Because I can't for the life of me figure out what he means. It's like the first and second parts of the sentences are not related, all 3 sentences are also not related to each other, and all 3 of them are also not a response to what the other person said.
On May 30 2025 18:00 TMNT wrote: mtcn doesn't differentiate between concepts. Earlier he just proved it by associating giving up a game with throwing, prediction with analysis. Now he thinks getting some good maestroms = revolutionize PvZ. When people talk about a trend he talks about one single game. With that way of thinking of course he considers best most skilled and most accomplished the same concept, hence his claim about Shuttle.
That's why it's so difficult to keep up with his thoughts. Whether that is his intention or not, it makes him troll-like and just distracts the thread further and further.
People can agree or disagree with me but I presented well articulated thoughts about the games in the finals and semifinals. It's the shitposts from the Zerg fans like mtcn, eon and sziky that downgrades the thread quality.
And you are the funny dude who thinks just because Snow won SOME GAMES in PvT matchup he is the prince that was promised. No, that is still Best and I bet we will see more of him in the future. PS: it is also ironic to be gaslighting three other members with a trolling accusation while flamebaiting with words like "shitposting" in the same post.
Snow is the ultimate PvT player. Cross-spawn? Easy win. Near-spawn? Now his opponent has a chance - if they're called Light or Flash, otherwise they need a build order advantage. I can't even begin to describe how good Snow is in PvT and you clearly haven't watched most of his games. All day he runs circles around terran players. You call that "some games"? He's been eating terrans for breakfast for years. He even has a trademark "villain laughter" that he's famous for whenever his reaver lands a shot. Every single terran player is afraid of him. Zerg players are lucky to have an inherent advantage. If they didn't, he'd be mopping the floor with them.
Best is a good 2nd tier protoss, he should not be underestimated. But he's not on Snow's level.
On May 30 2025 10:04 ShowTheLights wrote: BeSt was the protagonist of this season.
Bad ending.
No chance he makes it back to a finals ever again. Not after this heartbreak. A player like BeSt needed EVERYTHING to go right to get here and I just cant see that happening again unforunately
I cannot believe how people don't see how Best revolutionised PvZ with his DA play in ASL15 Ro8. That was 4 seasons ago. Do you remember how he dispatched Action that season? He is also the match of Stork in crazy berserking in PvT. He is really the match of Soulkey who himself reinvented queens.
Best never revolutionized anything. People only associate DA with him because he does it more than others. In fact SoulKey is hyper-aware of it and easily outplays Best's DA by always having two groups of mutas.
We would see about that in a corner base map with zero maneuverability for mutalisks. SK didn't beat Best using mutalisks. Best made a mistake by expanding into SK's 3 oclock direction.
I'm not talking about why Best did or didn't win games. I'm talking about your claim. DA is not Best's invention, he just likes to use it.
All of the top protoss players have done it the way he does it. The only reason why you don't see it from them is because zerg players are generally cautious enough to not move their whole army in one singular clump right into a heavily fortified protoss base. Action decided to be funny and we got a hilarious moment. There's nothing revolutionary about that. What you're showing us is not a highlight of Best, but a low point of Action. You're just perceiving it differently because you don't know what it looks like when a zerg player actually plays the game well.
It is interesting to be citing the game as Action's low point when I have watched all game to see an Action victory. You guys really don't see eye to eye with the viewpoints you present. No zerg sees fault in zerg perspective, it is always the next strike that will break the protoss front.
Out of curiosity, can you or anyone else explain to me what mtcn's trying to say in this post? Like, break down sentence by sentence.
Because I can't for the life of me figure out what he means. It's like the first and second parts of the sentences are not related, all 3 sentences are also not related to each other, and all 3 of them are also not a response to what the other person said.
While we have our differences, I fully agree with you. I can't understand half of what mtcn says. I'm not trying to be mean, just speaking facts.
On May 30 2025 18:00 TMNT wrote: mtcn doesn't differentiate between concepts. Earlier he just proved it by associating giving up a game with throwing, prediction with analysis. Now he thinks getting some good maestroms = revolutionize PvZ. When people talk about a trend he talks about one single game. With that way of thinking of course he considers best most skilled and most accomplished the same concept, hence his claim about Shuttle.
That's why it's so difficult to keep up with his thoughts. Whether that is his intention or not, it makes him troll-like and just distracts the thread further and further.
People can agree or disagree with me but I presented well articulated thoughts about the games in the finals and semifinals. It's the shitposts from the Zerg fans like mtcn, eon and sziky that downgrades the thread quality.
Mate, if you truly want to be the sane one then be the bigger person and be the first to put your gun down, and this can all end.
On May 30 2025 18:00 TMNT wrote: mtcn doesn't differentiate between concepts. Earlier he just proved it by associating giving up a game with throwing, prediction with analysis. Now he thinks getting some good maestroms = revolutionize PvZ. When people talk about a trend he talks about one single game. With that way of thinking of course he considers best most skilled and most accomplished the same concept, hence his claim about Shuttle.
That's why it's so difficult to keep up with his thoughts. Whether that is his intention or not, it makes him troll-like and just distracts the thread further and further.
People can agree or disagree with me but I presented well articulated thoughts about the games in the finals and semifinals. It's the shitposts from the Zerg fans like mtcn, eon and sziky that downgrades the thread quality.
Mate, if you truly want to be the sane one then be the bigger person and be the first to put your gun down, and this can all end.
I feel like I need and have the rights to defend myself first and expose their hostility. Especially when these people even made up things about what I said. If you don't have a response, lies become truths.
On May 30 2025 18:00 TMNT wrote: mtcn doesn't differentiate between concepts. Earlier he just proved it by associating giving up a game with throwing, prediction with analysis. Now he thinks getting some good maestroms = revolutionize PvZ. When people talk about a trend he talks about one single game. With that way of thinking of course he considers best most skilled and most accomplished the same concept, hence his claim about Shuttle.
That's why it's so difficult to keep up with his thoughts. Whether that is his intention or not, it makes him troll-like and just distracts the thread further and further.
People can agree or disagree with me but I presented well articulated thoughts about the games in the finals and semifinals. It's the shitposts from the Zerg fans like mtcn, eon and sziky that downgrades the thread quality.
And you are the funny dude who thinks just because Snow won SOME GAMES in PvT matchup he is the prince that was promised. No, that is still Best and I bet we will see more of him in the future. PS: it is also ironic to be gaslighting three other members with a trolling accusation while flamebaiting with words like "shitposting" in the same post.
Snow is the ultimate PvT player. Cross-spawn? Easy win. Near-spawn? Now his opponent has a chance - if they're called Light or Flash, otherwise they need a build order advantage. I can't even begin to describe how good Snow is in PvT and you clearly haven't watched most of his games. All day he runs circles around terran players. You call that "some games"? He's been eating terrans for breakfast for years. He even has a trademark "villain laughter" that he's famous for whenever his reaver lands a shot. Every single terran player is afraid of him. Zerg players are lucky to have an inherent advantage. If they didn't, he'd be mopping the floor with them.
Best is a good 2nd tier protoss, he should not be underestimated. But he's not on Snow's level.
Lol he is a Ro2 protoss and Snow hasn't been in Ro2 like what, ASL 8?
On May 30 2025 18:00 TMNT wrote: mtcn doesn't differentiate between concepts. Earlier he just proved it by associating giving up a game with throwing, prediction with analysis. Now he thinks getting some good maestroms = revolutionize PvZ. When people talk about a trend he talks about one single game. With that way of thinking of course he considers best most skilled and most accomplished the same concept, hence his claim about Shuttle.
That's why it's so difficult to keep up with his thoughts. Whether that is his intention or not, it makes him troll-like and just distracts the thread further and further.
People can agree or disagree with me but I presented well articulated thoughts about the games in the finals and semifinals. It's the shitposts from the Zerg fans like mtcn, eon and sziky that downgrades the thread quality.
And you are the funny dude who thinks just because Snow won SOME GAMES in PvT matchup he is the prince that was promised. No, that is still Best and I bet we will see more of him in the future. PS: it is also ironic to be gaslighting three other members with a trolling accusation while flamebaiting with words like "shitposting" in the same post.
Snow is the ultimate PvT player. Cross-spawn? Easy win. Near-spawn? Now his opponent has a chance - if they're called Light or Flash, otherwise they need a build order advantage. I can't even begin to describe how good Snow is in PvT and you clearly haven't watched most of his games. All day he runs circles around terran players. You call that "some games"? He's been eating terrans for breakfast for years. He even has a trademark "villain laughter" that he's famous for whenever his reaver lands a shot. Every single terran player is afraid of him. Zerg players are lucky to have an inherent advantage. If they didn't, he'd be mopping the floor with them.
Best is a good 2nd tier protoss, he should not be underestimated. But he's not on Snow's level.
Lol he is a Ro2 protoss and Snow hasn't been in Ro2 like what, ASL 8?
On May 30 2025 18:00 TMNT wrote: mtcn doesn't differentiate between concepts. Earlier he just proved it by associating giving up a game with throwing, prediction with analysis. Now he thinks getting some good maestroms = revolutionize PvZ. When people talk about a trend he talks about one single game. With that way of thinking of course he considers best most skilled and most accomplished the same concept, hence his claim about Shuttle.
That's why it's so difficult to keep up with his thoughts. Whether that is his intention or not, it makes him troll-like and just distracts the thread further and further.
People can agree or disagree with me but I presented well articulated thoughts about the games in the finals and semifinals. It's the shitposts from the Zerg fans like mtcn, eon and sziky that downgrades the thread quality.
And you are the funny dude who thinks just because Snow won SOME GAMES in PvT matchup he is the prince that was promised. No, that is still Best and I bet we will see more of him in the future. PS: it is also ironic to be gaslighting three other members with a trolling accusation while flamebaiting with words like "shitposting" in the same post.
Snow is the ultimate PvT player. Cross-spawn? Easy win. Near-spawn? Now his opponent has a chance - if they're called Light or Flash, otherwise they need a build order advantage. I can't even begin to describe how good Snow is in PvT and you clearly haven't watched most of his games. All day he runs circles around terran players. You call that "some games"? He's been eating terrans for breakfast for years. He even has a trademark "villain laughter" that he's famous for whenever his reaver lands a shot. Every single terran player is afraid of him. Zerg players are lucky to have an inherent advantage. If they didn't, he'd be mopping the floor with them.
Best is a good 2nd tier protoss, he should not be underestimated. But he's not on Snow's level.
Lol he is a Ro2 protoss and Snow hasn't been in Ro2 like what, ASL 8?
He's been destroying every terran player out there. Only Light can (somewhat) compete with him.
Okay. If SK beats all the Terrans, now what? See, PvT is just one matchup. That is what you don't understand. Also, I've NEVER been interested in watching Snow. I much rather watch Best do an Arbiter stasis bust with his huge ground army. Oh, he can also play other matchups more favourably.
On May 30 2025 18:00 TMNT wrote: mtcn doesn't differentiate between concepts. Earlier he just proved it by associating giving up a game with throwing, prediction with analysis. Now he thinks getting some good maestroms = revolutionize PvZ. When people talk about a trend he talks about one single game. With that way of thinking of course he considers best most skilled and most accomplished the same concept, hence his claim about Shuttle.
That's why it's so difficult to keep up with his thoughts. Whether that is his intention or not, it makes him troll-like and just distracts the thread further and further.
People can agree or disagree with me but I presented well articulated thoughts about the games in the finals and semifinals. It's the shitposts from the Zerg fans like mtcn, eon and sziky that downgrades the thread quality.
And you are the funny dude who thinks just because Snow won SOME GAMES in PvT matchup he is the prince that was promised. No, that is still Best and I bet we will see more of him in the future. PS: it is also ironic to be gaslighting three other members with a trolling accusation while flamebaiting with words like "shitposting" in the same post.
Snow is the ultimate PvT player. Cross-spawn? Easy win. Near-spawn? Now his opponent has a chance - if they're called Light or Flash, otherwise they need a build order advantage. I can't even begin to describe how good Snow is in PvT and you clearly haven't watched most of his games. All day he runs circles around terran players. You call that "some games"? He's been eating terrans for breakfast for years. He even has a trademark "villain laughter" that he's famous for whenever his reaver lands a shot. Every single terran player is afraid of him. Zerg players are lucky to have an inherent advantage. If they didn't, he'd be mopping the floor with them.
Best is a good 2nd tier protoss, he should not be underestimated. But he's not on Snow's level.
Lol he is a Ro2 protoss and Snow hasn't been in Ro2 like what, ASL 8?
He's been destroying every terran player out there. Only Light can (somewhat) compete with him.
Okay. If SK beats all the Terrans, now what? See, PvT is just one matchup. That is what you don't understand. Also, I've NEVER been interested in watching Snow. I much rather watch Best do an Arbiter stasis bust with his huge ground army. Oh, he can also play other matchups more favourably.
The only zerg player who consistently has a leg up on Snow is SoulKey with a 54% winrate. All other zerg players have a negative winrate against Snow. You can look it up on his page. Even Queen stands at 46%
On May 30 2025 18:00 TMNT wrote: mtcn doesn't differentiate between concepts. Earlier he just proved it by associating giving up a game with throwing, prediction with analysis. Now he thinks getting some good maestroms = revolutionize PvZ. When people talk about a trend he talks about one single game. With that way of thinking of course he considers best most skilled and most accomplished the same concept, hence his claim about Shuttle.
That's why it's so difficult to keep up with his thoughts. Whether that is his intention or not, it makes him troll-like and just distracts the thread further and further.
People can agree or disagree with me but I presented well articulated thoughts about the games in the finals and semifinals. It's the shitposts from the Zerg fans like mtcn, eon and sziky that downgrades the thread quality.
And you are the funny dude who thinks just because Snow won SOME GAMES in PvT matchup he is the prince that was promised. No, that is still Best and I bet we will see more of him in the future. PS: it is also ironic to be gaslighting three other members with a trolling accusation while flamebaiting with words like "shitposting" in the same post.
Snow is the ultimate PvT player. Cross-spawn? Easy win. Near-spawn? Now his opponent has a chance - if they're called Light or Flash, otherwise they need a build order advantage. I can't even begin to describe how good Snow is in PvT and you clearly haven't watched most of his games. All day he runs circles around terran players. You call that "some games"? He's been eating terrans for breakfast for years. He even has a trademark "villain laughter" that he's famous for whenever his reaver lands a shot. Every single terran player is afraid of him. Zerg players are lucky to have an inherent advantage. If they didn't, he'd be mopping the floor with them.
Best is a good 2nd tier protoss, he should not be underestimated. But he's not on Snow's level.
Lol he is a Ro2 protoss and Snow hasn't been in Ro2 like what, ASL 8?
He's been destroying every terran player out there. Only Light can (somewhat) compete with him.
Okay. If SK beats all the Terrans, now what? See, PvT is just one matchup. That is what you don't understand. Also, I've NEVER been interested in watching Snow. I much rather watch Best do an Arbiter stasis bust with his huge ground army. Oh, he can also play other matchups more favourably.
The only zerg player who consistently has a leg up on Snow is SoulKey with a 54% winrate. All other zerg players have a negative winrate against Snow. You can look it up on his page. Even Queen stands at 46%
Even Queen> queen isn't a current title contender. Something happens to pros that are past their prime. They miss the decisiveness that got them there. He doesn't have it. PS: I told this before. The only zerg I look for is True. What he did was bold. 7 pool zerg, it was a very daring optimiser build. Snow buckles under the pressure the instant he tries a cannon rush, that Best does most out of every protoss player. You need a trump card to win, even retired pros can play straight. That doesn't win games.
It is so ironic you guys are arguing against somebody who has better odds at guessing the next challenger. Best>Snow>Light. You kept arguing the opposite, sorry but I'm right. I won't change my line. PS: the irony is I back my prediction with results and you with unofficial one of a million other ladder matches.
See what eon did right there. Another troll post. Probably doesn't really violate any rules to warrant a ban, but posters with behavior like this should at least be warned..
Btw Soma is 63% against Snow.
Another thing I don't quite understand is that the order of P>T>Z>P seems like it's generally accepted as common knowledge in the BW community for years, so it's actually weird here that our top foreign Zergs don't agree with that. Maybe influence of getting beaten by top amateur Korean Protoss on ladder so they find the matchup more difficult for Z than P?
On May 30 2025 20:56 TMNT wrote: See what eon did right there. Another troll post. Probably doesn't really violate any rules to warrant a ban, but posters with behavior like this should at least be warned..
Btw Soma is 63% against Snow.
Another thing I don't quite understand is that the order of P>T>Z>P seems like it's generally accepted as common knowledge in the BW community for years, so it's actually weird here that our top foreign Zergs don't agree with that. Maybe influence of getting beaten by top amateur Korean Protoss on ladder so they find the matchup difficult?
Man i knew you will bring Soma. You are so predictable lol. What guarantes you that Soma will do well vs Snow after 2 years of absance ? Do you see how you always need to try to accomodate everything for no reason. FlaSh comeback and Snow is destroying him right ? And call me crazy but FlaSh is way more stronger and feared than Soma.
Anyway i truly dont wanna keep shit posting the ASL thread. At the end of the day is you crying always that your player is getting destroyed by someone better but lets blame balance.
You know you do that. It even looks that im hating on Snow when im not. I always told that the guy is truly insane but when it comes to high stakes he underperform badly. There are decades with this precedent but you blindly ignore that and just bring zerg imbalanced for no reason.
On May 30 2025 18:00 TMNT wrote: mtcn doesn't differentiate between concepts. Earlier he just proved it by associating giving up a game with throwing, prediction with analysis. Now he thinks getting some good maestroms = revolutionize PvZ. When people talk about a trend he talks about one single game. With that way of thinking of course he considers best most skilled and most accomplished the same concept, hence his claim about Shuttle.
That's why it's so difficult to keep up with his thoughts. Whether that is his intention or not, it makes him troll-like and just distracts the thread further and further.
People can agree or disagree with me but I presented well articulated thoughts about the games in the finals and semifinals. It's the shitposts from the Zerg fans like mtcn, eon and sziky that downgrades the thread quality.
Mate, if you truly want to be the sane one then be the bigger person and be the first to put your gun down, and this can all end.
I feel like I need and have the rights to defend myself first and expose their hostility. Especially when these people even made up things about what I said. If you don't have a response, lies become truths.
Everyone here with a brain can see that eon and sziky are just blatantly trolling, you don't need to expose them.
On May 30 2025 18:00 TMNT wrote: mtcn doesn't differentiate between concepts. Earlier he just proved it by associating giving up a game with throwing, prediction with analysis. Now he thinks getting some good maestroms = revolutionize PvZ. When people talk about a trend he talks about one single game. With that way of thinking of course he considers best most skilled and most accomplished the same concept, hence his claim about Shuttle.
That's why it's so difficult to keep up with his thoughts. Whether that is his intention or not, it makes him troll-like and just distracts the thread further and further.
People can agree or disagree with me but I presented well articulated thoughts about the games in the finals and semifinals. It's the shitposts from the Zerg fans like mtcn, eon and sziky that downgrades the thread quality.
Mate, if you truly want to be the sane one then be the bigger person and be the first to put your gun down, and this can all end.
I feel like I need and have the rights to defend myself first and expose their hostility. Especially when these people even made up things about what I said. If you don't have a response, lies become truths.
Everyone here with a brain can see that eon and sziky are just blatantly trolling, you don't need to expose them.
I agree it's pretty obvious, the issue is that they're allowed to fill up the thread with it, no repercussions. I used to get warned/banned for far less.
On May 30 2025 18:00 TMNT wrote: mtcn doesn't differentiate between concepts. Earlier he just proved it by associating giving up a game with throwing, prediction with analysis. Now he thinks getting some good maestroms = revolutionize PvZ. When people talk about a trend he talks about one single game. With that way of thinking of course he considers best most skilled and most accomplished the same concept, hence his claim about Shuttle.
That's why it's so difficult to keep up with his thoughts. Whether that is his intention or not, it makes him troll-like and just distracts the thread further and further.
People can agree or disagree with me but I presented well articulated thoughts about the games in the finals and semifinals. It's the shitposts from the Zerg fans like mtcn, eon and sziky that downgrades the thread quality.
Mate, if you truly want to be the sane one then be the bigger person and be the first to put your gun down, and this can all end.
I feel like I need and have the rights to defend myself first and expose their hostility. Especially when these people even made up things about what I said. If you don't have a response, lies become truths.
Everyone here with a brain can see that eon and sziky are just blatantly trolling, you don't need to expose them.
Maybe, but u know There were many antecedents for this but of course, ignore that :D
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/IFno0L4.png)
lol
