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[ASL19] Grand Finals - Page 40

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Recommended Games
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Poll: Recommend Soulkey vs BeSt Game 1?

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27 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Soulkey vs BeSt Game 1?

(Vote): Yes
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EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1598 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-29 18:19:45
May 29 2025 18:06 GMT
#781
Snow's recent success with reaver micro in no way makes him the best protoss of all time. Still far behind the likes of Bisu, Jangbi, Mini, etc if you're talking about all time best. Even if you're talking about current best Protoss, Mini is still ahead of him.
BulgarianToss
Profile Joined May 2011
Bulgaria487 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-29 18:25:16
May 29 2025 18:24 GMT
#782
On May 29 2025 23:41 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2025 23:36 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
On May 29 2025 06:46 TMNT wrote:
Oh and by the way, our top foreign Zerg here thinks this is a concept that should be made fun of:
You are saying a guy with MASSIVE LEAD can really lose the game in 40 seconds. ^^

40 seconds, everybody. 40 secs in BW.
Never mind 40s, I'll give you 4s: hold position Lurkers, Templar snipe, legendary spider mines , vultures in undefended base... please chip in with examples everyone.

Speaks like a noob.

Do you remember when you say stuff like oh protoss 2 loses workers in early game doing 1 gate is a already over

Don't remember saying this btw. Citation please ? Or is it another made up "Snow is the best Protoss ever" of yours?


SnOw is the best protoss ever. But also the one protoss without premier wins. Best =/= most accomplished. Anyone can quote me on that whenever they want because I consider it an objective fact based on largely the online but also the offline results from the past two years. Soulkey is just standing in his way and stealing his spotlight. No other player has managed to match Soulkey as well as SnOw has, except Light coming close to it. Most competition happens online, so I think we should put more focua on online performance to determine our power rankings and such.

Shame on you RJ ^^

[image loading]
[image loading]


Man, whatever happened to JangBi? I feel like he never made a return after Kespa was shut down. That being said, this reminded me of one of the greatest hype videos ever made just before the last ever OSL final took place back in 2012 by one of my favourite english casters NukeTheStars -

.
We thought it was over, but it never truly was <3!
music is the best thing in the world
townhouse
Profile Joined June 2018
United States27 Posts
May 29 2025 20:11 GMT
#783
Jangbi left at the perfect time. Had 2 legendary runs back-to-back and rode off into the sunset. If he came back he'd be just another Protoss like Bisu is now.

Also, does anyone know what the deal with Snow's coughing is? Been constantly coughing on stream and even during ASL matches for awhile now...
"We're here on Earth to fart around" - Vonnegut
Artas1984
Profile Joined August 2018
135 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-29 20:14:53
May 29 2025 20:14 GMT
#784
Best - a centaur? WTF... Everyone knows he is a gorilla. Anyway...

The greatest ever ASL was when Flash went random - nothing will top that, but this ASL19 might just be the "second Best" ever.
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
Chad3072 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-29 22:55:31
May 29 2025 22:48 GMT
#785
There is so much nuanced discussion that could be had between smarter players and fans of Brood War that enhances the viewing experience of these tournaments, but it always devolves into a small group of people going back and forth and none of it is ever interesting to read. It's basically written and signed validation for the people who criticize and over-generalize gaming communities.
I'd much rather watch Congo where at least the violent apes get fucking owned in the end. Here it's just like pressing start on a single player game where I'm face-checking a brick wall over and over.
It's no big secret why many smart and interesting people stopped posting on forums a long time ago. What could be an oasis in a desert is just bad in a different way.

BTW, if one group of balance whiners somehow conclusively defeats the other group in an argument, literally nothing happens. And if something were to happen, the game would be ruined. So all of this back and forth isn't just annoying and uninteresting, it's potentially harmful. And also flares up my epcot-globe-sized hemorrhoids.
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Profile Joined December 2023
Netherlands1014 Posts
May 29 2025 23:26 GMT
#786
On May 30 2025 03:24 BulgarianToss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2025 23:41 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
On May 29 2025 23:36 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
On May 29 2025 06:46 TMNT wrote:
Oh and by the way, our top foreign Zerg here thinks this is a concept that should be made fun of:
You are saying a guy with MASSIVE LEAD can really lose the game in 40 seconds. ^^

40 seconds, everybody. 40 secs in BW.
Never mind 40s, I'll give you 4s: hold position Lurkers, Templar snipe, legendary spider mines , vultures in undefended base... please chip in with examples everyone.

Speaks like a noob.

Do you remember when you say stuff like oh protoss 2 loses workers in early game doing 1 gate is a already over

Don't remember saying this btw. Citation please ? Or is it another made up "Snow is the best Protoss ever" of yours?


SnOw is the best protoss ever. But also the one protoss without premier wins. Best =/= most accomplished. Anyone can quote me on that whenever they want because I consider it an objective fact based on largely the online but also the offline results from the past two years. Soulkey is just standing in his way and stealing his spotlight. No other player has managed to match Soulkey as well as SnOw has, except Light coming close to it. Most competition happens online, so I think we should put more focua on online performance to determine our power rankings and such.

Shame on you RJ ^^

[image loading]
[image loading]


Man, whatever happened to JangBi? I feel like he never made a return after Kespa was shut down. That being said, this reminded me of one of the greatest hype videos ever made just before the last ever OSL final took place back in 2012 by one of my favourite english casters NukeTheStars -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVvT53zYyXk .
We thought it was over, but it never truly was <3!


Janbgi streamed until august 2017. He stopped for reasons I dont know.
JDON MY SOUL!
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium4953 Posts
May 29 2025 23:49 GMT
#787
Jangbi was a right person at the right time kinda thing.
Mini is the infinite untapped potential that gets too much ahead of himself.
Bisu is trying to relive passed glory
Stork is grandfather aura
Free is let's hang out
Kal is the guy that trips just before the finish line but knows how to put up a fight with the best
Snow is prep and fine motor skills, surgeon style
Best is plow em with my snowplow
Rain is idgaf prodigy
Taxes are for Terrans
ShowTheLights
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Korea (South)1702 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-30 01:04:37
May 30 2025 01:04 GMT
#788
BeSt was the protagonist of this season.

Bad ending.

No chance he makes it back to a finals ever again. Not after this heartbreak. A player like BeSt needed EVERYTHING to go right to get here and I just cant see that happening again unforunately
•••Acer.MMA••• <> KT_Puzzle <> JinAir•GreenWings_CoCa <> CJ_herO <> Axiom CranK & Ryung <> IM_Seed <> IM_Squirtle <> le' ToD <> Innovation <> ROOT_CatZ <> inuh! <> Chobra <> SKT1_Fantasy
ShowTheLights
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Korea (South)1702 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-30 01:05:43
May 30 2025 01:05 GMT
#789
On May 30 2025 08:49 Uldridge wrote:
Jangbi was a right person at the right time kinda thing.
Mini is the infinite untapped potential that gets too much ahead of himself.
Bisu is trying to relive passed glory
Stork is grandfather aura
Free is let's hang out
Kal is the guy that trips just before the finish line but knows how to put up a fight with the best
Snow is prep and fine motor skills, surgeon style
Best is plow em with my snowplow
Rain is idgaf prodigy


lmao Rain's description so true

unfortunately with how discouraged he looked in the RO16 and RO8 this season I doubt he ever taps into that potential again. he is truly the only one who can beat Soulkey
•••Acer.MMA••• <> KT_Puzzle <> JinAir•GreenWings_CoCa <> CJ_herO <> Axiom CranK & Ryung <> IM_Seed <> IM_Squirtle <> le' ToD <> Innovation <> ROOT_CatZ <> inuh! <> Chobra <> SKT1_Fantasy
bochs
Profile Joined February 2022
114 Posts
May 30 2025 01:25 GMT
#790
On May 30 2025 08:26 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
Janbgi streamed until august 2017. He stopped for reasons I dont know.

Rumor has it that Jangbi's family owns a successful business, so Jangbi likely took the helm over from his parents. Maybe jinjin can confirm.
mtcn77
Profile Joined September 2013
Turkey627 Posts
May 30 2025 06:33 GMT
#791
On May 30 2025 10:04 ShowTheLights wrote:
BeSt was the protagonist of this season.

Bad ending.

No chance he makes it back to a finals ever again. Not after this heartbreak. A player like BeSt needed EVERYTHING to go right to get here and I just cant see that happening again unforunately

I cannot believe how people don't see how Best revolutionised PvZ with his DA play in ASL15 Ro8. That was 4 seasons ago. Do you remember how he dispatched Action that season? He is also the match of Stork in crazy berserking in PvT. He is really the match of Soulkey who himself reinvented queens.
Turrican
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
May 30 2025 06:46 GMT
#792
On May 30 2025 15:33 mtcn77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2025 10:04 ShowTheLights wrote:
BeSt was the protagonist of this season.

Bad ending.

No chance he makes it back to a finals ever again. Not after this heartbreak. A player like BeSt needed EVERYTHING to go right to get here and I just cant see that happening again unforunately

I cannot believe how people don't see how Best revolutionised PvZ with his DA play in ASL15 Ro8. That was 4 seasons ago. Do you remember how he dispatched Action that season? He is also the match of Stork in crazy berserking in PvT. He is really the match of Soulkey who himself reinvented queens.


Best never revolutionized anything. People only associate DA with him because he does it more than others. In fact SoulKey is hyper-aware of it and easily outplays Best's DA by always having two groups of mutas.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
mtcn77
Profile Joined September 2013
Turkey627 Posts
May 30 2025 07:00 GMT
#793
On May 30 2025 15:46 Magic Powers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2025 15:33 mtcn77 wrote:
On May 30 2025 10:04 ShowTheLights wrote:
BeSt was the protagonist of this season.

Bad ending.

No chance he makes it back to a finals ever again. Not after this heartbreak. A player like BeSt needed EVERYTHING to go right to get here and I just cant see that happening again unforunately

I cannot believe how people don't see how Best revolutionised PvZ with his DA play in ASL15 Ro8. That was 4 seasons ago. Do you remember how he dispatched Action that season? He is also the match of Stork in crazy berserking in PvT. He is really the match of Soulkey who himself reinvented queens.


Best never revolutionized anything. People only associate DA with him because he does it more than others. In fact SoulKey is hyper-aware of it and easily outplays Best's DA by always having two groups of mutas.

We would see about that in a corner base map with zero maneuverability for mutalisks. SK didn't beat Best using mutalisks. Best made a mistake by expanding into SK's 3 oclock direction.
Turrican
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
May 30 2025 07:33 GMT
#794
On May 30 2025 16:00 mtcn77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2025 15:46 Magic Powers wrote:
On May 30 2025 15:33 mtcn77 wrote:
On May 30 2025 10:04 ShowTheLights wrote:
BeSt was the protagonist of this season.

Bad ending.

No chance he makes it back to a finals ever again. Not after this heartbreak. A player like BeSt needed EVERYTHING to go right to get here and I just cant see that happening again unforunately

I cannot believe how people don't see how Best revolutionised PvZ with his DA play in ASL15 Ro8. That was 4 seasons ago. Do you remember how he dispatched Action that season? He is also the match of Stork in crazy berserking in PvT. He is really the match of Soulkey who himself reinvented queens.


Best never revolutionized anything. People only associate DA with him because he does it more than others. In fact SoulKey is hyper-aware of it and easily outplays Best's DA by always having two groups of mutas.

We would see about that in a corner base map with zero maneuverability for mutalisks. SK didn't beat Best using mutalisks. Best made a mistake by expanding into SK's 3 oclock direction.


I'm not talking about why Best did or didn't win games. I'm talking about your claim. DA is not Best's invention, he just likes to use it.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Profile Joined December 2023
Netherlands1014 Posts
May 30 2025 08:04 GMT
#795
On May 30 2025 15:46 Magic Powers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2025 15:33 mtcn77 wrote:
On May 30 2025 10:04 ShowTheLights wrote:
BeSt was the protagonist of this season.

Bad ending.

No chance he makes it back to a finals ever again. Not after this heartbreak. A player like BeSt needed EVERYTHING to go right to get here and I just cant see that happening again unforunately

I cannot believe how people don't see how Best revolutionised PvZ with his DA play in ASL15 Ro8. That was 4 seasons ago. Do you remember how he dispatched Action that season? He is also the match of Stork in crazy berserking in PvT. He is really the match of Soulkey who himself reinvented queens.


Best never revolutionized anything. People only associate DA with him because he does it more than others. In fact SoulKey is hyper-aware of it and easily outplays Best's DA by always having two groups of mutas.

Best actually made shuttle templar popular vs terran. But vs zerg he didnt set a trend.
JDON MY SOUL!
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1699 Posts
May 30 2025 08:10 GMT
#796
On May 30 2025 10:04 ShowTheLights wrote:
BeSt was the protagonist of this season.

Bad ending.

No chance he makes it back to a finals ever again. Not after this heartbreak. A player like BeSt needed EVERYTHING to go right to get here and I just cant see that happening again unforunately

I like to hold onto the hope that he can return and go again. Yes he's an emotional player, but also incredibly skilled and got where he got this season on grit and ability. So why not again? I don't know. I wouldn't count him out. I was cheering for him so hard - I watched half the finals, then slept, and spent all night dreaming of different ways the games could go 😅 so I know it's hard to get past the disappointment. But really, why not? Why can't he go again?
EleGant[AoV]
mtcn77
Profile Joined September 2013
Turkey627 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-30 08:36:01
May 30 2025 08:35 GMT
#797
On May 30 2025 16:33 Magic Powers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2025 16:00 mtcn77 wrote:
On May 30 2025 15:46 Magic Powers wrote:
On May 30 2025 15:33 mtcn77 wrote:
On May 30 2025 10:04 ShowTheLights wrote:
BeSt was the protagonist of this season.

Bad ending.

No chance he makes it back to a finals ever again. Not after this heartbreak. A player like BeSt needed EVERYTHING to go right to get here and I just cant see that happening again unforunately

I cannot believe how people don't see how Best revolutionised PvZ with his DA play in ASL15 Ro8. That was 4 seasons ago. Do you remember how he dispatched Action that season? He is also the match of Stork in crazy berserking in PvT. He is really the match of Soulkey who himself reinvented queens.


Best never revolutionized anything. People only associate DA with him because he does it more than others. In fact SoulKey is hyper-aware of it and easily outplays Best's DA by always having two groups of mutas.

We would see about that in a corner base map with zero maneuverability for mutalisks. SK didn't beat Best using mutalisks. Best made a mistake by expanding into SK's 3 oclock direction.


I'm not talking about why Best did or didn't win games. I'm talking about your claim. DA is not Best's invention, he just likes to use it.

Yes it is. Watch this game and tell me if there ever was a pro who used DAs like he does. He shuts zerg swarm dead in its tracks.
Turrican
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
May 30 2025 08:55 GMT
#798
On May 30 2025 17:35 mtcn77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2025 16:33 Magic Powers wrote:
On May 30 2025 16:00 mtcn77 wrote:
On May 30 2025 15:46 Magic Powers wrote:
On May 30 2025 15:33 mtcn77 wrote:
On May 30 2025 10:04 ShowTheLights wrote:
BeSt was the protagonist of this season.

Bad ending.

No chance he makes it back to a finals ever again. Not after this heartbreak. A player like BeSt needed EVERYTHING to go right to get here and I just cant see that happening again unforunately

I cannot believe how people don't see how Best revolutionised PvZ with his DA play in ASL15 Ro8. That was 4 seasons ago. Do you remember how he dispatched Action that season? He is also the match of Stork in crazy berserking in PvT. He is really the match of Soulkey who himself reinvented queens.


Best never revolutionized anything. People only associate DA with him because he does it more than others. In fact SoulKey is hyper-aware of it and easily outplays Best's DA by always having two groups of mutas.

We would see about that in a corner base map with zero maneuverability for mutalisks. SK didn't beat Best using mutalisks. Best made a mistake by expanding into SK's 3 oclock direction.


I'm not talking about why Best did or didn't win games. I'm talking about your claim. DA is not Best's invention, he just likes to use it.

Yes it is. Watch this game and tell me if there ever was a pro who used DAs like he does. He shuts zerg swarm dead in its tracks.
https://youtu.be/watch?v=fiXDOyBSLGQ&t=2880s


All of the top protoss players have done it the way he does it. The only reason why you don't see it from them is because zerg players are generally cautious enough to not move their whole army in one singular clump right into a heavily fortified protoss base. Action decided to be funny and we got a hilarious moment. There's nothing revolutionary about that.
What you're showing us is not a highlight of Best, but a low point of Action. You're just perceiving it differently because you don't know what it looks like when a zerg player actually plays the game well.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
mtcn77
Profile Joined September 2013
Turkey627 Posts
May 30 2025 08:59 GMT
#799
On May 30 2025 17:55 Magic Powers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2025 17:35 mtcn77 wrote:
On May 30 2025 16:33 Magic Powers wrote:
On May 30 2025 16:00 mtcn77 wrote:
On May 30 2025 15:46 Magic Powers wrote:
On May 30 2025 15:33 mtcn77 wrote:
On May 30 2025 10:04 ShowTheLights wrote:
BeSt was the protagonist of this season.

Bad ending.

No chance he makes it back to a finals ever again. Not after this heartbreak. A player like BeSt needed EVERYTHING to go right to get here and I just cant see that happening again unforunately

I cannot believe how people don't see how Best revolutionised PvZ with his DA play in ASL15 Ro8. That was 4 seasons ago. Do you remember how he dispatched Action that season? He is also the match of Stork in crazy berserking in PvT. He is really the match of Soulkey who himself reinvented queens.


Best never revolutionized anything. People only associate DA with him because he does it more than others. In fact SoulKey is hyper-aware of it and easily outplays Best's DA by always having two groups of mutas.

We would see about that in a corner base map with zero maneuverability for mutalisks. SK didn't beat Best using mutalisks. Best made a mistake by expanding into SK's 3 oclock direction.


I'm not talking about why Best did or didn't win games. I'm talking about your claim. DA is not Best's invention, he just likes to use it.

Yes it is. Watch this game and tell me if there ever was a pro who used DAs like he does. He shuts zerg swarm dead in its tracks.
https://youtu.be/watch?v=fiXDOyBSLGQ&t=2880s


All of the top protoss players have done it the way he does it. The only reason why you don't see it from them is because zerg players are generally cautious enough to not move their whole army in one singular clump right into a heavily fortified protoss base. Action decided to be funny and we got a hilarious moment. There's nothing revolutionary about that.
What you're showing us is not a highlight of Best, but a low point of Action. You're just perceiving it differently because you don't know what it looks like when a zerg player actually plays the game well.

It is interesting to be citing the game as Action's low point when I have watched all game to see an Action victory. You guys really don't see eye to eye with the viewpoints you present. No zerg sees fault in zerg perspective, it is always the next strike that will break the protoss front.
Turrican
TMNT
Profile Joined January 2021
3019 Posts
May 30 2025 09:00 GMT
#800
mtcn doesn't differentiate between concepts. Earlier he just proved it by associating giving up a game with throwing, prediction with analysis. Now he thinks getting some good maestroms = revolutionize PvZ. When people talk about a trend he talks about one single game. With that way of thinking of course he considers best most skilled and most accomplished the same concept, hence his claim about Shuttle.

That's why it's so difficult to keep up with his thoughts. Whether that is his intention or not, it makes him troll-like and just distracts the thread further and further.

People can agree or disagree with me but I presented well articulated thoughts about the games in the finals and semifinals. It's the shitposts from the Zerg fans like mtcn, eon and sziky that downgrades the thread quality.


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