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Moletrap
United States1297 Posts
It's likely IMO that they'll end up in the winners match for their group together. Then the very next day is the conclusion of their OSL quarterfinal! Plus they are both in the starting lineup for their teams that are very close in the proleague standings. My random thought... could be the start of a rivalry? (I made sure not to spoil their game last night but I can't vouch for any responses.) | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
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Hittegods
Stockholm4641 Posts
game against Jaedong. | ||
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + like the game last night. That was pure pwnage. | ||
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
For some reason, I feel that Light is the best Terran to have a chance against Jaedong. I think Light's excellent late game matches up well against Jaedong's play. Of course, Light has absolutely atrocious early game play... which is a problem. But I like Light's 1-rax CC against Jaedong's 3-hatch. Hmmm you know what would help this discussion? What if there were some sort of record-keeping site where I could see what their head-to-head results were? Maybe if that site also had VODs so I could watch their matches and analyze the matchup? That site would rock | ||
Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
On November 24 2007 12:58 Sunyveil wrote: Boxer is 20-12 against Yellow (according to TLPD anyway), people say that's a rivalry. I think Light v. Jaedong will just result in Light getting ripped to shreds time after time if they play each other several times, though. + Show Spoiler + like the game last night. That was pure pwnage. TLPD is by no means comprehensive. The real overall rec is more like 23-21; it's quite close. | ||
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
On November 24 2007 13:04 Last Romantic wrote: TLPD is by no means comprehensive. The real overall rec is more like 23-21; it's quite close. I see. I figured that was a little too tilted in Boxer's favor, but he's known for coming out on top in the most important matches Anyway, I still think Light (or any terran other than Sheis) is going to have a tough time standing toe-to-toe with Jaedong for any extended period of time. | ||
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
According to fomos.kr 29 - 26 if you take out All-star and Superfight | ||
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
On November 24 2007 13:02 HonestTea wrote: I've been pushing this angle for a while. For some reason, I feel that Light is the best Terran to have a chance against Jaedong. I think Light's excellent late game matches up well against Jaedong's play. Of course, Light has absolutely atrocious early game play... which is a problem. But I like Light's 1-rax CC against Jaedong's 3-hatch. Hmmm you know what would help this discussion? What if there were some sort of record-keeping site where I could see what their head-to-head results were? Maybe if that site also had VODs so I could watch their matches and analyze the matchup? That site would rock i totally totally totally agree. light has one of the strongest mid to late game terran games i've ever seen. However, light tries to get super cute early game for some reason. I think he needs to really really work on those cute openings, or just stick to his solid fast expo plays. then he'll start demolishing them zergs! ^_^ | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On November 24 2007 12:58 Sunyveil wrote: Boxer is 20-12 against Yellow (according to TLPD anyway), people say that's a rivalry. I think Light v. Jaedong will just result in Light getting ripped to shreds time after time if they play each other several times, though. + Show Spoiler + like the game last night. That was pure pwnage. TLPD isnt as accurate, the farther back you go i think the official record is like 35-32 or something in boxer's favor | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
On November 24 2007 12:46 IdrA wrote: dunno if it will really count as a rivalry unless light can win a game once in a while Haha this is what I was gonna say. I havent seen much of light lately but he just seems to get owned hardcore a lot | ||
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Moletrap
United States1297 Posts
On November 24 2007 13:40 IdrA wrote: hes an excellent player, but his dumb openings will never work vs a z as solid as jaedong and the one straight up game i remember them (on tau cross in a proleague match) jaedong just tore him up with muta micro-> lurk ling macro That's what Jaedong does in general to terrans, heh. I agree with whoever it was that Light probably has one of the best chances against Jaedong.. partly because he's just been playing really really well, lately. He got totally ridiculously owned by Kwanro a couple times recently, but Kwanro can be such a beast when he has a good day that you can't really blame him for it. Maybe I just haven't seen enough games of his, but... doesn't Light do decently well with his openings? I mean.. he blocks off with marines or whatever, like is normal... Unlike the terran that Jaedong played in MST (Ruin) that for some reason didn't make a blockade and his marines just got owned by lings real quick. I also like the 1rax to cc thing... with a good scout he can make sure the zerg is doing the normal thing and 3 hatching so he doesn't really need more than 2 marines behind the blockade for a while. Plenty of time to get another cc and some econ. Especially good on all these maps with an expansion on the same ridge as the main (Katrina, Persona, etc). I liked how FBH used it to go mass econ on Savior in Proleague... | ||
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
However, Light has an even more amazing ability to come back from bad situations in the mid and late game. This is because he has excellent fundamentals (ie=macro and micro), very good positioning/map control sense, and a one-of-a-kind ability to know how to hit his opponent where it hurts while slowly gaining the upper hand. Light makes these wonderful decisions that force his opponent to engage in losing battles consistantly. It's almost like he plays better when he's behind. I want him to just give up the cute shit and play to get to late game as safely as possible. He can throw a few twists into his game, like early ebay, or two-fac/SK mix up, but he needs to stop fucking around in the early game to become championship caliber. Light needs to realize that he doesn't need to play like Nada. Sea is Nada. Light is the spiritual successor to oov, and he should play like it. | ||
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IaniAniaN
Canada555 Posts
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fonger
United Kingdom1218 Posts
Perhaps one of the reasons he tries these "cute" openers, as they may well have worked well in practice games. | ||
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GunsofthePatriots
South Africa991 Posts
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IaniAniaN
Canada555 Posts
On November 24 2007 16:34 fonger wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but with July gone from MBC, it seems that Light just doesn't have any top-tier Zergs to practice against. Saint, Shark and Hyun stand out as names I recognize somewhat, but don't strike me as effective practice material when you're facing players like Jaedong in the field. Perhaps one of the reasons he tries these "cute" openers, as they may well have worked well in practice games. There's nothing baring them from playing with people outside their teams, hell I recently read an old interview where Savior said he practiced with Sea[Shield] for his OSL finals game. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17733 Posts
On November 24 2007 13:40 IdrA wrote: hes an excellent player, but his dumb openings will never work vs a z as solid as jaedong and the one straight up game i remember them (on tau cross in a proleague match) jaedong just tore him up with muta micro-> lurk ling macro Probably because of Light's failed bunker rush and jaedong's muta harass I really enjoyed jaedong vs light on arcadia 2. Light played awesome in that game and still lost. | ||
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fonger
United Kingdom1218 Posts
On November 24 2007 17:24 IaniAniaN wrote: There's nothing baring them from playing with people outside their teams, hell I recently read an old interview where Savior said he practiced with Sea[Shield] for his OSL finals game. Yeah, but you're talking about the OSL finals. This Ro8 OSL game is (according to TLPD) the only time they've played each other televised outside of proleague. More than likely (in my uneducated opinion), the vast majority of practice time he's put in has been with teammates. Basically, I find it unlikely that any non-MBC Zerg would have spent much (if any) time helping Light practice his cute valk build against them. | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Apparently Light has won a game on Monty for PL R2 but honestly aside from them meeting each other frequently (which I guess counts for something), nothing has happened yet to suggest any sort of rivalry. Well, I guess we'll see with time. | ||
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Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On November 24 2007 13:04 Last Romantic wrote: TLPD is by no means comprehensive. The real overall rec is more like 23-21; it's quite close. TLPD has all the official games as recorded by KeSPA, plus a few recent unofficial/exhibition ones which are not taken into account for stats. In that sense, 19-12 is their "official" record As for Light vs Jaedong, I also think Light's only (slight) chance is to survive until late game, but Jaedong usually rapes Terrans during midgame in the worst case. What a fucking monster. | ||
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joohyunee
Korea (South)1087 Posts
On November 25 2007 00:49 PoP wrote: TLPD has all the official games as recorded by KeSPA, plus a few recent unofficial/exhibition ones which are not taken into account for stats. In that sense, 19-12 is their "official" record As for Light vs Jaedong, I also think Light's only (slight) chance is to survive until late game, but Jaedong usually rapes Terrans during midgame in the worst case. What a fucking monster. Wow.. didn't know TLPD took all that into account 0.o can't believe the amount of work you put into it Pop =D | ||
Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
Unfortunately I don't think UpMagiC could take a game from JD. | ||
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Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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Moletrap
United States1297 Posts
On November 24 2007 20:30 thedeadhaji wrote: They've met 4 times so far, and each time the game was important, Jaedong has prevailed. First the elimination game in 2006 PL R2 playoffs on Arcadia, then 2007 PL R1 playoffs on Tau, and now in OSL (and the last two were just utter rape). Apparently Light has won a game on Monty for PL R2 but honestly aside from them meeting each other frequently (which I guess counts for something), nothing has happened yet to suggest any sort of rivalry. Well, I guess we'll see with time. Well everyone considers Bisu and Savior rivals even though they've ONLY met in the OSL Finals a couple seasons ago. I just see Jaedong ruining Light's chances in both starleagues at the same time and Jaedong getting pissed and wanting revenge (like Hwasin wanted revenge against Bisu) | ||
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On November 25 2007 05:37 f10esqftw wrote: Well everyone considers Bisu and Savior rivals even though they've ONLY met in the OSL Finals a couple seasons ago. I just see Jaedong ruining Light's chances in both starleagues at the same time and Jaedong getting pissed and wanting revenge (like Hwasin wanted revenge against Bisu) I don't really think that Savior ever had any rivals. Maybe Nal_rA, and their holy wars. But those were rather one-sided affairs. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On November 25 2007 05:37 f10esqftw wrote: Well everyone considers Bisu and Savior rivals even though they've ONLY met in the OSL Finals a couple seasons ago. I just see Jaedong ruining Light's chances in both starleagues at the same time and Jaedong getting pissed and wanting revenge (like Hwasin wanted revenge against Bisu) First of it was MSL finals for GOM 2006, not OSL. Secondly, they faced each other shortly thereafter in Superfight Race Wars, when once again Bisu crushed Savior on a beta version of Geometry which made the intensity of their "head to head" encounters concrete. While they haven't met since then until this week's osl, the fact that bisu effective "dethroned" savior from his absolute domination of the pro scene when everyone expected bisu to lose 0-3 after vacationing in Thailand or wherever dramatically increased the expectation and interest in their relationship. And as someone mentioned above, it is very true that quite frankly we dont give a shit until both players in a so called "rivalry" have actually accomplished anything. Light and Jaedong havent dont anything in individual leagues. Jaedong is an invaluable player in proleague, but his track record ends there. Light is an important but replaceable proleague player for mbc. Even if something memorable happens this osl, we aren't likely to perceive them as rivals, I'd reckon. It'd have to be later on in the tournament, or there'd have to be some sort of parity in their games. | ||
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IaniAniaN
Canada555 Posts
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EpiK
Korea (South)5757 Posts
On November 24 2007 12:46 IdrA wrote: dunno if it will really count as a rivalry unless light can win a game once in a while qft.. they need to be relatively the same skill level in order to be rivals. | ||
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MoNKeYSpanKeR
United States2869 Posts
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
On November 25 2007 11:47 MoNKeYSpanKeR wrote: Can someone explain why in the katrina OSL game jaedong killed his evo chamber instead of the neutral structure when coming out of his base? That was kind of confusing. lol good point, but maybe he just didn't think about it. It really didn't end up making any difference | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17733 Posts
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Try
United States1293 Posts
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Moletrap
United States1297 Posts
On November 25 2007 08:39 thedeadhaji wrote: First of it was MSL finals for GOM 2006, not OSL. Secondly, they faced each other shortly thereafter in Superfight Race Wars, when once again Bisu crushed Savior on a beta version of Geometry which made the intensity of their "head to head" encounters concrete. While they haven't met since then until this week's osl, the fact that bisu effective "dethroned" savior from his absolute domination of the pro scene when everyone expected bisu to lose 0-3 after vacationing in Thailand or wherever dramatically increased the expectation and interest in their relationship. And as someone mentioned above, it is very true that quite frankly we dont give a shit until both players in a so called "rivalry" have actually accomplished anything. Light and Jaedong havent dont anything in individual leagues. Jaedong is an invaluable player in proleague, but his track record ends there. Light is an important but replaceable proleague player for mbc. Even if something memorable happens this osl, we aren't likely to perceive them as rivals, I'd reckon. It'd have to be later on in the tournament, or there'd have to be some sort of parity in their games. A: Shit, my bad. B: Fair enough. Good point. | ||
jhNz
Germany2762 Posts
On November 24 2007 16:33 IaniAniaN wrote: Any Light games that you'd recommend watching? He sounds pretty solid, but not making the kind of gigantic splashes that Hwasin or, Flash have. this one was cool: light vs hwasin @ persona - osl 2007  | ||
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