EPT[ASL8] Ro8 Day2 Sharp vs Action - Page 7
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TonDan
65 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
Action is a really good Zerg who has been super solid for a long time. If he stinks it up next round, okay, have at it. I think he should be congratulated though. He's been grinding and earned it. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19398 Posts
On August 08 2019 05:02 KamMoye wrote: Massive haters. Aggression leads to scrappy games. Scrappy games are by definition mistake filled. This was a fun, if not great, series. Refreshing from the typical macro v macro affairs. If this is the type of response to mixing it up, no wonder players are just defensive all the time. Sharp's play style wants to mix it up and get you off your timings, playing spontaneously. That's the point. Action is a really good Zerg who has been super solid for a long time. If he stinks it up next round, okay, have at it. I think he should be congratulated though. He's been grinding and earned it. I completely agree with you. I finished the games and came to the thread thinking I watched the most fun series in a long time. Mistakes were made, but these games were a nailbiter. I'm sure more people enjoyed these games then let on. There are lots of great posters in this forum that are critical of players, but I rather enjoy hearing their viewpoints even if they aren't my own. | ||
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hiro protagonist
1294 Posts
To be fair, the only mistake during the series that was ‘unforgivable’ was the mad rally of drones to sharpers Natural. It kept happening even after action caught it. Otherwise, the games were such nail biters that both players needed to do thing as fast as they could just to stay alive. Of course there we gonna be mistakes in those situations | ||
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fearthequeen
United States790 Posts
Call it nerves, lack of preparation, bad day, whatever. That said, I really like Action as the dark horse for the rest of the tourney. Usually helps confidence/focus to pull out a series win in that fashion. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27473 Posts
On August 08 2019 06:34 BisuDagger wrote: I completely agree with you. I finished the games and came to the thread thinking I watched the most fun series in a long time. Mistakes were made, but these games were a nailbiter. I'm sure more people enjoyed these games then let on. There are lots of great posters in this forum that are critical of players, but I rather enjoy hearing their viewpoints even if they aren't my own. It’s far preferable for two good players to have a sloppy day and give us an enjoyable series than for one player to show up and the other not. Ideally we get two guys bringing their A game, it requires some alignment of the stars (or brackets) alas, given how many players have relative Achilles Heels matchup wise. I do love me some weird Starcraft games, feels sometimes it pushes players into weird scenarios and they have to think on their feet. Who was it that forGG played in the last couple of months in TvP? Crazy weird base trade but really edge of the seat stuff. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1145 Posts
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Malinor
Germany4758 Posts
On August 08 2019 06:34 BisuDagger wrote: I completely agree with you. I finished the games and came to the thread thinking I watched the most fun series in a long time. Mistakes were made, but these games were a nailbiter. I'm sure more people enjoyed these games then let on. There are lots of great posters in this forum that are critical of players, but I rather enjoy hearing their viewpoints even if they aren't my own. Scrappy games are super fun if the players are playing good StarCraft or it is some Ro32 game. This is a Ro8 game, the level of play is just not what I expect at this stage. Actually, I take this back, it is the level of play I expect unfortunately. No matter how much love I have for the game, it is clear to see that these are just ex-pro players, 10 years older without a good training environment. Watching some new strategies is fun, the execution not so much. edit: There are still pleasent surprises out there, like Snow's PvT. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1145 Posts
On August 08 2019 14:36 Malinor wrote: Scrappy games are super fun if the players are playing good StarCraft or it is some Ro32 game. This is a Ro8 game, the level of play is just not what I expect at this stage. Actually, I take this back, it is the level of play I expect unfortunately. No matter how much love I have for the game, it is clear to see that these are just ex-pro players, 10 years older without a good training environment. Watching some new strategies is fun, the execution not so much. edit: There are still pleasent surprises out there, like Snow's PvT. Most of the remaining active bw players are playing the best bw of their life, and that include Action and Sharp. May be not in their last bo5, but they are playing better than they were in the kespa era and this is not even close. | ||
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Malinor
Germany4758 Posts
On August 08 2019 16:22 TornadoSteve wrote: Most of the remaining active bw players are playing the best bw of their life, and that include Action and Sharp. May be not in their last bo5, but they are playing better than they were in the kespa era and this is not even close. This is most certainly not the case. And I am always in shock when I realize that some people on TL honestly believe that. Strategically players might be close or even have improved. But the execution is very lackluster. The quality of games, especially in the Ro24 and Ro16 is nothing what it was in the KESPA-era. I guess we just have to disagree, which is fine. | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19398 Posts
On August 08 2019 18:23 Malinor wrote: This is most certainly not the case. And I am always in shock when I realize that some people on TL honestly believe that. Strategically players might be close or even have improved. But the execution is very lackluster. The quality of games, especially in the Ro24 and Ro16 is nothing what it was in the KESPA-era. I guess we just have to disagree, which is fine. Just a hypothesis, but here's another take on level of play. In part you can blame the constant map rotations as a reason why the level of play isn't there. Back when you had a team environment, you had B-teamers and coaches studying the maps at the same time. So even if the maps rotated constantly, you had a whole brigade behind you to help analyze the maps as quickly as possible so you can settle in and focus on execution of your builds. Every season of ASL brings a whole new rotation of maps that are very different from the previous seasons. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing a nice rotating map pool, but if the ASL kept more maps the same between seasons within each calendar year then we would start to see more consistent and higher level play. The counter argument to maps could be that KSL uses ladder maps and we still see lower level play for most of the group stage games. I think the KSL problem has been that it generally doesn't end up with the best 16 players available. Repeatedly, we see pros that sit out on the KSL so they can be healthy for the ASL. Therefore, without the top 16 best available players we can't really expect the highest level of games before the round of 8 or possible until the round of 4. | ||
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superjoppe
Sweden3694 Posts
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Jaeyun
United States202 Posts
The era of streaming has the meta evolving way more rapidly than back in the day, where pros were practicing amongst themselves in team houses. Trying to keep up with the variation in strategy today at the highest of levels, especially in TvZ, is infinitely more difficult to the variation back then. Even if variation existed back then, it was not optimized to the dot. When a new build or trend comes out, you can literally watch the build order on their streams and devise strategies to counteract it - you can tell the sloppiness of some of these strategies, on top of some weird maps, as a function of lack of time/preparation and tournament nerves. If you let TvZ run its course where virtually every Terran just opens 5Rax +1, you would have a much higher frequency of solid games. A lot of people are cheesing and trying to mind-game each other and the meta in those early rounds so the quality appears to be poor. | ||
TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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fearthequeen
United States790 Posts
On August 09 2019 03:22 TaardadAiel wrote: Don't get me wrong, Snow is for me at least in better overall shape than Rain (excluding PvP), but Action's ZvP is really strong. I'd consider Snow vs Action one of the closest matches the current scene has to offer. Yep. Snow vs Action may well be a worst matchup vs best matchup scenario. Not to mention the map stats are favoring z>p so far. Plenty of reasons for Action to be the favorite there. | ||
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Cryoc
Germany915 Posts
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fearthequeen
United States790 Posts
On August 09 2019 07:22 Cryoc wrote: Action has a 5-10 record in ZvP in ASL compared to his now 9-3 record in ZvT, so ZvP is hardly his best matchup in offline leagues. I hope he wins vs Snow, but that doesn't seem too likely. Good point. Where did you find these stats? | ||
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Ideas
United States8182 Posts
Action vs snow should be great, although pretty hard to tell how it will go IMO. Snow is favored on paper IMO but action seems pretty great at preparing builds and snow has a penchant for randomly failing hard in pvz (but when he's on he's one of the pvz there is right now). I generally always cheer for zerg but I can't think of a more epic final for this ASL than snow vs flash, so I'm hoping they both pull through. | ||
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