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On February 13 2019 07:37 RJGooner wrote:
Officially a Last anti-fan now. Hope he gets crushed in the Ro.8. Two stupid cheesy games that knock out players on the caliber of Soulkey and Snow. What a shame.
You should not disrespect Last! He was named AlphaGo for a good reason and has won very little considering the level of play he reached. Recently his wrists collapsed so he is probably forced to go for cheese/decisive early pushes; I don't think he's especially happy to do so but he was effective today.
I feel sorry for Snow as he deserved to go through after such a good game against Soulkey.
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On February 13 2019 07:37 RJGooner wrote:
Officially a Last anti-fan now. Hope he gets crushed in the Ro.8. Two stupid cheesy games that knock out players on the caliber of Soulkey and Snow. What a shame.
It was Snow who cheesed Last on gladiator Ro16 game 5 ASL season 5. Can't think of an instance of Soulkey cheesing Last. Maybe he should. In any event, Last is one of the best macro terrans there is, and somehow it's the end of the world that he's cheesing more?
Last has been getting good results even when it's scouted. In MPL season 2, Flash scouted his center rax and Last prevailed rather quickly. Jaedong had to turn off his image b/c he was crying from happiness. But Last can macro it up if needed. I kinda miss the pre 1-1-1 vs zerg with the mech switch. But whatever, I'm not hating him for changing to something that seems to work.
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On February 13 2019 07:37 RJGooner wrote:
Officially a Last anti-fan now. Hope he gets crushed in the Ro.8. Two stupid cheesy games that knock out players on the caliber of Soulkey and Snow. What a shame.
No... shameful response from Soulkey, he had the perfect scout and reacted horribly. 12 pool was a free win. I'm not a PvT expert so I won't judge Snow's reaction too much but it seems a bit shaky aswell.
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Soulkey deserved to get knocked out by playing subpar. Snow put up a goodfight but deserved to get knocked out also. Looking forward to see Calm’s builds he prepares for ro8. He seems to be a player like Shuttle that just fights the good fight regardless of slim odds to advance. And yes I figure Effort has a better chance to win against Larva and Calm than Soulkey before he got eliminated. Effort has said that Mini is his hardest Protoss opponent.
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For me, it's not that I'm mad at Last as such. I understand his dispositions, and of course it's okay to cheese. It's just not what I want to see in ASL. First of all because I like long games and second of all because we get deprived of watching the better players play. I'd so much rather have had SoulKey or Snow advance in the tournament than this version of Last.
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On February 13 2019 12:03 JackyVSO wrote:
For me, it's not that I'm mad at Last as such. I understand his dispositions, and of course it's okay to cheese. It's just not what I want to see in ASL. First of all because I like long games and second of all because we get deprived of watching the better players play. I'd so much rather have had SoulKey or Snow advance in the tournament than this version of Last.
I second this. Last seems to have lost so much of his mechanical proves in short time. It is really painfull to watch how his struggle to win. It gives impression that he should just quit and take care his health before military.
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There should be a prize for best and most beautiful game in ASL like in chess sometimes. It would easily go for Snow in that pvz against Soulkey. I'm so sad he didn't make it.
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On February 13 2019 07:37 RJGooner wrote:
Officially a Last anti-fan now. Hope he gets crushed in the Ro.8. Two stupid cheesy games that knock out players on the caliber of Soulkey and Snow. What a shame.
Your opinion seem to focus on the wrong things. What is wrong when the games are short? In the end it is like this in every game, long or short - the played that makes less mistakes wins. To decide to play a rather aggressive build is a risk in and of itself, it's an all-in move, you know. Sometimes the risk is rewarded, sometimes it is not. Who forced Soulkey to make the hatchery first? Was it Last? I do not think so. He played in a bizarre way and lost, it totally makes sense.
Who forced Snow to go Nexus first? I know the map begs for it but then again, it's a desperate map for Terran so Terran decides to play low eco and aggressively and does not want to deal with late game full blown protoss army commanded by the current best PvT player on a P>>T map. I do not think this decision is weird from Last, not at all.
On February 13 2019 12:03 JackyVSO wrote:
we get deprived of watching the better players play. I'd so much rather have had SoulKey or Snow advance in the tournament than this version of Last.
Would you care to explain to me how, if they were the better players of the day, they failed to win and to qualify to Ro8? Is not that which matters in a tournament - who is the better player on the day and not who won x% of games in the past vs who? Reality is what it is - Last played better than both SK and Snow this day and he took it. When SK destroyed him in KSL was it, then SK played better. But today Last prevailed thus he was the better played of the day.
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Folks, I also did not like Last's cheese and I really wanted long games, but honestly, Soulkey and Snow deserve to be kicked out. Soulkey second game was the biggest "facepalm" situation I've seen so far after closely watching games for 2 years now. Both of them knew that Last is extremely tricky and both of them started with second base? And all these drones roaming around outside of his base? Artosis and Tastless coud not even comment it, it was such mess.
I'm really curios what Effort will do, if him and Last will finally meet again.
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I just went over ASL Ro16 Group B videos. Soulkey definitely deserves the loss in Loser's match for not making a Spawning pool before hatchery.
Soulkey and ZerO said some comments about hatchery first. They were saying if Zerg goes pool first and Terran goes 8 rax into 1-1-1, then it's more a terran win, but I disagree with this. I play zerg as well, quite high MMR and play all races in 2v2 games.
The difference of 12 pool and 12 hatchery is only 2 larvae. If Terran plays standard 1-1-1, then 12 pool has no benefit to make any table turn, but 8 rax small marine cheese? Definitely worth to not have extra 2 larvae and defend the cheese without any economic loss(Drone drill defense).
+ Show Spoiler +Btw, a lot of people know in the Korean SC community that ZerO is a big whiner over there.
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I blame the format of the tournament, at that phase games being Bo1 is a fucking shame. If you want to cheese your way out than do it in Bo3, full me once shame on you, full me twice, shame on me. If not the whole group at least the two matches that decide who will qualify, the 3rd and the 5th games should be Bo3 imo. And its not only the cheeses, there are maps that can be quite unfair in one deciding game
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compare Last current gameplay on stream with that of a couple of years ago, the mechanical regression is real. you can easily eat a small economic disadvantage and just play safe knowing Last's chances of auto-capitulating increases the longer the game goes.
aw i thought the army has improved his mentality a bit, turns out ZerO still his same old self.
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Snow played remarkably well but then taking a third vs 2 gates opening and that far on top of that is really looking for troubles
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On February 13 2019 20:49 M2 wrote:
I blame the format of the tournament, at that phase games being Bo1 is a fucking shame. If you want to cheese your way out than do it in Bo3, full me once shame on you, full me twice, shame on me. If not the whole group at least the two matches that decide who will qualify, the 3rd and the 5th games should be Bo3 imo. And its not only the cheeses, there are maps that can be quite unfair in one deciding game
I disagree with you.
There is and has been plenty of tournaments with with bo3 /bo5 /bo7 ...
It is good to have one that until Ro8 is just bo1.
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very fun games.. im sad for snow
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^ Block Chain is the best map for 12 Nexus and 3 Hatcheries before pool. That's why the cheese is used so much. StarCraft is the best mind game.
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On February 13 2019 11:53 Alpha-NP- wrote:
And yes I figure Effort has a better chance to win against Larva and Calm than Soulkey before he got eliminated
I'm not so sure about that. If Calm is actually back, his ZvZ is fearsome. It's been his best matchup, historically.
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TLADT24920 Posts
This was a fantastic group all around. Calm vs Last and Snow vs Soulkey were just great. Loved Snow's reavers control. Even though I'm a Last fan, I was rooting for both Soulkey and/or Snow to beat him when he went for a proxy rax twice. I was a bit mad afterwards, however, I think Last did what it takes to win and that's how it should be.
Furthermore, it's the fault of SK and Snow for how they played. SK went hatch first when he scouted the proxy rax, his fault 100%. Last played it well with his positioning to come out on top. As for Snow, nexus first even on Chain Block is still risky and you just know that Last is not at his prime anymore with his wrists so why would you even do it? Why not go a bit safe and play for the longer game being one of the best PvT players?
Well played by Last and huge congrats to Calm beating both Last and Snow.
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On February 13 2019 20:38 LaStScan wrote:
Soulkey and ZerO said some comments about hatchery first. They were saying if Zerg goes pool first and Terran goes 8 rax into 1-1-1, then it's more a terran win, but I disagree with this. I play zerg as well, quite high MMR and play all races in 2v2 games.
You disagree with the opinion of two of the top5 zergs in the world? I think I’ll agree with Soulkey/ZerO this time.
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EPT
