EPT[ASL4] Ro16 Group B - Page 14
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On September 27 2017 02:08 _Animus_ wrote: I can honestly say ive never seen a post from you that wasnt aggressive and whiny.Larva vs Shine was the worst korean zvz ive seen. Next game lack of micro for Hero less shocking than that of Shine. Games like these yet again convince me of how lower the level of play is compared to kespa days. I remember the interest i was watching kespa zvz, all the tactical maneuvers all that clutch micro, thinking about what every player see and whats the opportunities they might use for attack, a game fast and action packed where units can suddenly appear from the shadows and do a deadly act . Now with no young and crisp players, we get to see oldies get slower and slower. I liked how Hero outbuild the bag of builds and after shine and effort out i feel alot more safe for the protoss contingent, i think shine and effort are way dangerous non zvz players than larva and hero. Have to say esportsjohn and flashftw did top professional cast here. Its actually the first time i watch them instead of tastosis. I had too much of Tastosis lack of understanding, talking about other things and making guesses. If you hadnt watched the games esportsjohn/flashftw combo is the choice to understand and keep track of all the events happening. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
EffOrt shouldn't have taken that risk seeing it's close positions. No love here for by.hero? If he meets FlaSh he is dead but vs. Bisu will be a really neat ro8 match. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On September 27 2017 03:37 Shinokuki wrote: pros have said their game knowledge improved vastly and some have even said they improved overall. Flash thinks his 2017 form can beat 2010 last part, really? Flash said that? Interesting. I'm aware of the game knowledge aspect. After all, even when the KeSPA era ended, there was still lots of competition during the Sonic days so pros had time to study the game even more. Having said that, I never thought that Flash would say that he can beat his 2010 self. | ||
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TT1
Canada10012 Posts
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traxamillion
104 Posts
Shine more dangerous than Larva in ZvP and ZvT Animus? Lol what? Shine isn't in the top 20 and Larva is a top 5 maybe top 3 player | ||
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Amanebak
Czech Republic528 Posts
On September 27 2017 03:55 [AS]Rattus wrote: esportsjohn not bitching around all the time anymore? watched one stream a few weeks ago where he basically talked about the superiority of sc2 the whole tournament. No. The cast was great, as always is. In the good mood and funny before games, thoughtful during games. I am so amazed by Larva. I believed he killed himself by making the all zerg group. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10253 Posts
On September 27 2017 03:55 [AS]Rattus wrote: esportsjohn not bitching around all the time anymore? watched one stream a few weeks ago where he basically talked about the superiority of sc2 the whole tournament. For as long as ive known john he has never said that sc2 was a better game and ive known him for months. | ||
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
On September 27 2017 03:37 Shinokuki wrote: pros have said their game knowledge improved vastly and some have even said they improved overall. Flash thinks his 2017 form can beat 2010 Flash is from planet improvement, hes most dominant player in history. I mean what most players fail is on execution. Micro and macro sucks so often, multitasking and awareness are not at that level they used to be at their younger age, just watch jin air osl or proleague from that time. Their play was pretty clean. Remember shuttle vs sharp ASL finals? It was so sloppy series. There were a reason for progamers after age of 24 start to decline and retire and younger players take their place, team houses produced good players and veterans couldnt cope with their performance, excluding stork and bisu who were super good veterans. On September 27 2017 04:14 LRM)TechnicS wrote: I respectfully disagree. Larva vs Shine was as fine of a match as you would expect coming from a relatively quick 9p mirror bos. Larva's lings maneuver was fine, the micro on both player's part was fine (except for that shine attack with his initial lings even though Larva faked some sort of a gasfirst or 12pool build with 4 lings) and for this kind of a game development the game was fine overall imho. Game 2, absolutely clutch micro performance from hero begining with the millisecond split of the 2 scourges to hit effort's first 2 mutas that almost won him the game and given his bo disadvantage I think he performed fine enough. I haven't watched the other 3 games, but all in all I would refrain from generalizing as broad on the state of the korean pro scene based on these 5 games howerver bad or good they seemingly went. Shine was not microing his drones vs larva lings and lost them super easy from what i saw. And second game apart from that perfect scourge hit, it looked to me that effort outmicroed hero and really made him look bad, his drones and overlords were scattered at random places too. Game 3 and 4 are definitely more interesting IMO. On September 27 2017 05:31 traxamillion wrote: Players are better now than they were during kespa. They've been building on what they did there. Look at Larva as the prime example. Shine more dangerous than Larva in ZvP and ZvT Animus? Lol what? Shine isn't in the top 20 and Larva is a top 5 maybe top 3 player Do you know last ASL season finals was Shine vs Flash? Maybe larva had gone a way up, but does he ever go further than Ro8 in any offline tournament? I consider Soulkey as the best macro zerg and a top tier player if he performs on the level of the last ASL, his play was incredible. He crushed Flash in the teamleague finals and lost 2-3 in close series in ASL. | ||
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scvs
Peru19 Posts
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RealityIsKing
613 Posts
His macro is insane. He loses the game to Flash too often due to drops after gaining advantage on streams. If he improves his map awareness, beating Flash is easy. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
On September 27 2017 07:02 RealityIsKing wrote: I think Larva can take out Flash. His macro is insane. He loses the game to Flash too often due to drops after gaining advantage on streams. If he improves his map awareness, beating Flash is easy. I dont follow streams much, but that might be the case. Its the same scenario how flash beat Soulkey in ASL. Maybe larva takes same approach. And its the best IMO because you cant depend to all in flash, timing attacks dont work. Shine was the prime example, he hit the wall every time with his agressive builds even tho they worked so great against everyone else. Soulkey macro style was the closest to beating Flash in a zvt series. | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
Soulkey and Effort are by far the scariest zergs all around in my opinion; larva however has been great on stream recently. Shine I didn't follow, but doesn't seem to have the chops of the rest of the gang. And yea, JD is always awesome, but his form is not as timeless. The game vs Sharp was a fine example. | ||
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pinkbowtie1
23 Posts
On September 26 2017 23:14 TT1 wrote: It's funny how Soulkey is like the exact opposite of EffOrt. His mechanics won't wow you but he's insanely smart. Idk man his consistent magic triangles in ZvZ always wows me | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On September 27 2017 06:30 _Animus_ wrote: Do you know last ASL season finals was Shine vs Flash? Maybe larva had gone a way up, but does he ever go further than Ro8 in any offline tournament? I consider Soulkey as the best macro zerg and a top tier player if he performs on the level of the last ASL, his play was incredible. He crushed Flash in the teamleague finals and lost 2-3 in close series in ASL. Larva only really made the jump sometime in the last six months. It wasn't until May that the Larva progress report thread was even made. Larva one year ago was nothing special, it was a dramatic jump starting towards the beginning of this year and continuing till now. This is the first round of ASL we have seen with a Larva that is actually "good". And make no mistake, the Larva of stream is exceptionally good. Much better than EffOrt. Larva is CREAMING everyone not named FlaSh including Last. His last two months he is over 75% WR against Last. Over 60% against Bisu. Same cannot be said for Effort. Or anyone else. FlaSh is FlaSh, and still does well vs Larva (i believe around 60% in spon matches). I won't say Larva is going to win, but in my mind there is no question Larva is by FAR the best chance for a zerg ASL title. On September 27 2017 03:13 iFU.pauline wrote: Effort FUCKING SHIT~!~!! getting ruined by those noobs FUCK!!! no effort, so flash won asl4 gg. Lol. Look, EffOrt is damn good, and one of my favorite zergs...but he isn't on the level of Larva in ZvT or ZvP at all. I really wanted Larva and EffOrt through for zerg chances, but Larva over EffOrt gives us a much greater chance of a zerg victory than anyone else. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On September 26 2017 23:14 TT1 wrote: It's funny how Soulkey is like the exact opposite of EffOrt. His mechanics won't wow you but he's insanely smart. Hmm. For EffOrt that reads as "his smarts won't wow you, but he has insane mechanical skill". I strongly disagree. EffOrt is a pretty damn good tactical player, his ling movements especially stand out. He has a way of using his way to move lings around to draw other players into bad positions that is absolutely uncanny. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On September 27 2017 10:02 L_Master wrote: Larva only really made the jump sometime in the last six months. It wasn't until May that the Larva progress report thread was even made. Larva one year ago was nothing special, it was a dramatic jump starting towards the beginning of this year and continuing till now. This is what amazes me about Larva. Losing over and over to Flash must have been like some kind of Dragon Ball Z training. | ||
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traxamillion
104 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On September 27 2017 10:12 traxamillion wrote: Shine beat a sick bisu bit I give him credit last season for some good inventive play. Still 1 tourney is a small sample size. Effort is clearly better when you look at the body of work including spon. I don't think anyone would argue that Shine > EffOrt. EffOrt is clearly the better player. | ||
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