bisu vs. shine... here's to hoping that i'm not gonna cry.
somehow bisu usually manage to choke when it gets closer to finals match... remeber the time when he was about to be the mext bonjwa then he lost to mind in msl finals? then another time when he had the most wins in proleague and performing really well then in ro4 of osl (or was it msl?), he lost to fantasy? oh bisu... pls. win!
On May 17 2017 10:09 usopsama wrote: I am rewatching game 2 and I still can't believe Shine's guardians were able to brute-force their way into the front of Mong's base like that after being scouted. His guardians even had to fly across the map. Crazy.
I have been watching Brood War for ten years and I can't recall a memorable game where a zerg used guardians to brute-force their way into the front of a terran's base like that, after being scouted.
On May 17 2017 02:35 M2 wrote: Why is everyone assuming that Flash is a given finalist? Going through Last and Soulkey does not look so free to me
Because he's pretty much the best player ever to play the game...and it's a lot easier to remember how awesome he was than to look at the momentary glimpses of Last, Soulkey and say that they can even touch the Ultimate Weapon. The only one who's got a shot is BeSt. His PvT is very good, but his PvZ is putrid and he'll probably lose to Soulkey.
In sum, Flash is Flash, 'nuff said.
Last has the best chance, he went 3-0 in ASL1 and Flash was already in very good form. Best and Bisu (and even Soulkey) have Outsider and Andromeda, so without Camelot double map it's absolutely doable. That said, all of them are underdogs of course.
Pretty much. I think Last can actually beat Flash. Not 3-0 of course, maybe 3-1 or 3-2. Regardless, it'll be really intense. Flash might be solid and the GOAT but Last is just as great of a player at the moment and has been keeping up with him in rankings for the last good year or so. Also, not sure how many posters remember but Last's TvT is one of his strong matchups. It's actually amazing to see how he has grown since the SSL days. I'm talking drastic improvements.
His TvT was solid back then to the point where he rode it to the finals while his TvP/Z needed work. I remember back when he lost to Guemchi's forge FE and Kwarno's zerg on Sin Peaks of Baedu in SSL10. I was not impressed with his matchups other than TvT but he's made such a turnaround these last couple of years. If Last beats Flash, I think he has a shot at the finals but there's always a chance that BeSt will become the macro monster he was last season (if he beats SK) or that SK will upset him much like ATB finals. Then there always Bisu (if he beats Shine) or Shine who I wouldn't hesitate to call a monster at series' preparation.
Basically, Last is one of the contenders for top players atm and I think Flash fans should be a bit concerned about him facing Last. I could go on and on... Anyways, for me, there's a great storyline to write about if any of the players win the finals and I'm expecting some intense games (except BeSt vs SK, that might be a stomp unless BeSt pulls off the same form during hero last ASL) so all good :D
You have a lot more faith in Last's TvT than I do. I will admit Last's TvZ is currently monstrous and I don't think there's a Zerg around who could best him in a Bo5 (and watching streams, it might be worse than I'm even letting on) but Flash might have the best TvT in BW history. I know anything can happen in a Bo5, but my intuition is screaming that it'll be a 3-1 victory for Lee Young Ho.
ya, I'm not really doubting Flash's overall ability. I just think that Last is one of the only players atm that can upset Flash and based on their history (ASL1 record and very close sponmatch results over the last five months etc...), he has the capability to pull it off especially with TvT being the matchup that he rode on in the past to get to SSL finals and has only improved it more since then. Either way, I think we're in for some really close and intense games so in the end, we're going to be victorious ^^
On May 17 2017 10:09 usopsama wrote: I am rewatching game 2 and I still can't believe Shine's guardians were able to brute-force their way into the front of Mong's base like that after being scouted. His guardians even had to fly across the map. Crazy.
I have been watching Brood War for ten years and I can't recall a memorable game where a zerg used guardians to brute-force their way into the front of a terran's base like that, after being scouted.
On May 17 2017 02:35 M2 wrote: Why is everyone assuming that Flash is a given finalist? Going through Last and Soulkey does not look so free to me
Because he's pretty much the best player ever to play the game...and it's a lot easier to remember how awesome he was than to look at the momentary glimpses of Last, Soulkey and say that they can even touch the Ultimate Weapon. The only one who's got a shot is BeSt. His PvT is very good, but his PvZ is putrid and he'll probably lose to Soulkey.
In sum, Flash is Flash, 'nuff said.
Last has the best chance, he went 3-0 in ASL1 and Flash was already in very good form. Best and Bisu (and even Soulkey) have Outsider and Andromeda, so without Camelot double map it's absolutely doable. That said, all of them are underdogs of course.
Pretty much. I think Last can actually beat Flash. Not 3-0 of course, maybe 3-1 or 3-2. Regardless, it'll be really intense. Flash might be solid and the GOAT but Last is just as great of a player at the moment and has been keeping up with him in rankings for the last good year or so. Also, not sure how many posters remember but Last's TvT is one of his strong matchups. It's actually amazing to see how he has grown since the SSL days. I'm talking drastic improvements.
His TvT was solid back then to the point where he rode it to the finals while his TvP/Z needed work. I remember back when he lost to Guemchi's forge FE and Kwarno's zerg on Sin Peaks of Baedu in SSL10. I was not impressed with his matchups other than TvT but he's made such a turnaround these last couple of years. If Last beats Flash, I think he has a shot at the finals but there's always a chance that BeSt will become the macro monster he was last season (if he beats SK) or that SK will upset him much like ATB finals. Then there always Bisu (if he beats Shine) or Shine who I wouldn't hesitate to call a monster at series' preparation.
Basically, Last is one of the contenders for top players atm and I think Flash fans should be a bit concerned about him facing Last. I could go on and on... Anyways, for me, there's a great storyline to write about if any of the players win the finals and I'm expecting some intense games (except BeSt vs SK, that might be a stomp unless BeSt pulls off the same form during hero last ASL) so all good :D
You have a lot more faith in Last's TvT than I do. I will admit Last's TvZ is currently monstrous and I don't think there's a Zerg around who could best him in a Bo5 (and watching streams, it might be worse than I'm even letting on) but Flash might have the best TvT in BW history. I know anything can happen in a Bo5, but my intuition is screaming that it'll be a 3-1 victory for Lee Young Ho.
ya, I'm not really doubting Flash's overall ability. I just think that Last is one of the only players atm that can upset Flash and based on their history (ASL1 record and very close sponmatch results over the last five months etc...), he has the capability to pull it off especially with TvT being the matchup that he rode on in the past to get to SSL finals and has only improved it more since then. Either way, I think we're in for some really close and intense games so in the end, we're going to be victorious ^^
On May 17 2017 10:09 usopsama wrote: I am rewatching game 2 and I still can't believe Shine's guardians were able to brute-force their way into the front of Mong's base like that after being scouted. His guardians even had to fly across the map. Crazy.
I have been watching Brood War for ten years and I can't recall a memorable game where a zerg used guardians to brute-force their way into the front of a terran's base like that, after being scouted.
Don't know if it could work again but that was hard for Mong to defend, even if he would have had 1 or 2 more wraiths.
You could also do it this way as well marines > hydras tanks > lurkers wraiths > guardians
Haha true, but guardians out-range wraiths, so wraiths have to get closer and then get killed by hydras. Well at least that's how it worked in that specific game, but yeah it could easily go the other way around :D
On May 17 2017 02:35 M2 wrote: Why is everyone assuming that Flash is a given finalist? Going through Last and Soulkey does not look so free to me
Because he's pretty much the best player ever to play the game...and it's a lot easier to remember how awesome he was than to look at the momentary glimpses of Last, Soulkey and say that they can even touch the Ultimate Weapon. The only one who's got a shot is BeSt. His PvT is very good, but his PvZ is putrid and he'll probably lose to Soulkey.
In sum, Flash is Flash, 'nuff said.
Last has the best chance, he went 3-0 in ASL1 and Flash was already in very good form. Best and Bisu (and even Soulkey) have Outsider and Andromeda, so without Camelot double map it's absolutely doable. That said, all of them are underdogs of course.
Pretty much. I think Last can actually beat Flash. Not 3-0 of course, maybe 3-1 or 3-2. Regardless, it'll be really intense. Flash might be solid and the GOAT but Last is just as great of a player at the moment and has been keeping up with him in rankings for the last good year or so. Also, not sure how many posters remember but Last's TvT is one of his strong matchups. It's actually amazing to see how he has grown since the SSL days. I'm talking drastic improvements.
His TvT was solid back then to the point where he rode it to the finals while his TvP/Z needed work. I remember back when he lost to Guemchi's forge FE and Kwarno's zerg on Sin Peaks of Baedu in SSL10. I was not impressed with his matchups other than TvT but he's made such a turnaround these last couple of years. If Last beats Flash, I think he has a shot at the finals but there's always a chance that BeSt will become the macro monster he was last season (if he beats SK) or that SK will upset him much like ATB finals. Then there always Bisu (if he beats Shine) or Shine who I wouldn't hesitate to call a monster at series' preparation.
Basically, Last is one of the contenders for top players atm and I think Flash fans should be a bit concerned about him facing Last. I could go on and on... Anyways, for me, there's a great storyline to write about if any of the players win the finals and I'm expecting some intense games (except BeSt vs SK, that might be a stomp unless BeSt pulls off the same form during hero last ASL) so all good :D
You have a lot more faith in Last's TvT than I do. I will admit Last's TvZ is currently monstrous and I don't think there's a Zerg around who could best him in a Bo5 (and watching streams, it might be worse than I'm even letting on) but Flash might have the best TvT in BW history. I know anything can happen in a Bo5, but my intuition is screaming that it'll be a 3-1 victory for Lee Young Ho.
ya, I'm not really doubting Flash's overall ability. I just think that Last is one of the only players atm that can upset Flash and based on their history (ASL1 record and very close sponmatch results over the last five months etc...), he has the capability to pull it off especially with TvT being the matchup that he rode on in the past to get to SSL finals and has only improved it more since then. Either way, I think we're in for some really close and intense games so in the end, we're going to be victorious ^^
On May 17 2017 12:38 Essbee wrote:
On May 17 2017 10:09 usopsama wrote: I am rewatching game 2 and I still can't believe Shine's guardians were able to brute-force their way into the front of Mong's base like that after being scouted. His guardians even had to fly across the map. Crazy.
I have been watching Brood War for ten years and I can't recall a memorable game where a zerg used guardians to brute-force their way into the front of a terran's base like that, after being scouted.
Don't know if it could work again but that was hard for Mong to defend, even if he would have had 1 or 2 more wraiths.
You could also do it this way as well marines > hydras tanks > lurkers wraiths > guardians
Haha true, but guardians out-range wraiths, so wraiths have to get closer and then get killed by hydras. Well at least that's how it worked in that specific game, but yeah it could easily go the other way around :D
maybe so but tanks can also be used to target hydras to give wraiths easy access to guardians while the terran pulls back to regroup and get some guardians kills before the next engagement
On May 17 2017 02:35 M2 wrote: Why is everyone assuming that Flash is a given finalist? Going through Last and Soulkey does not look so free to me
Because he's pretty much the best player ever to play the game...and it's a lot easier to remember how awesome he was than to look at the momentary glimpses of Last, Soulkey and say that they can even touch the Ultimate Weapon. The only one who's got a shot is BeSt. His PvT is very good, but his PvZ is putrid and he'll probably lose to Soulkey.
In sum, Flash is Flash, 'nuff said.
Last has the best chance, he went 3-0 in ASL1 and Flash was already in very good form. Best and Bisu (and even Soulkey) have Outsider and Andromeda, so without Camelot double map it's absolutely doable. That said, all of them are underdogs of course.
Pretty much. I think Last can actually beat Flash. Not 3-0 of course, maybe 3-1 or 3-2. Regardless, it'll be really intense. Flash might be solid and the GOAT but Last is just as great of a player at the moment and has been keeping up with him in rankings for the last good year or so. Also, not sure how many posters remember but Last's TvT is one of his strong matchups. It's actually amazing to see how he has grown since the SSL days. I'm talking drastic improvements.
His TvT was solid back then to the point where he rode it to the finals while his TvP/Z needed work. I remember back when he lost to Guemchi's forge FE and Kwarno's zerg on Sin Peaks of Baedu in SSL10. I was not impressed with his matchups other than TvT but he's made such a turnaround these last couple of years. If Last beats Flash, I think he has a shot at the finals but there's always a chance that BeSt will become the macro monster he was last season (if he beats SK) or that SK will upset him much like ATB finals. Then there always Bisu (if he beats Shine) or Shine who I wouldn't hesitate to call a monster at series' preparation.
Basically, Last is one of the contenders for top players atm and I think Flash fans should be a bit concerned about him facing Last. I could go on and on... Anyways, for me, there's a great storyline to write about if any of the players win the finals and I'm expecting some intense games (except BeSt vs SK, that might be a stomp unless BeSt pulls off the same form during hero last ASL) so all good :D
You have a lot more faith in Last's TvT than I do. I will admit Last's TvZ is currently monstrous and I don't think there's a Zerg around who could best him in a Bo5 (and watching streams, it might be worse than I'm even letting on) but Flash might have the best TvT in BW history. I know anything can happen in a Bo5, but my intuition is screaming that it'll be a 3-1 victory for Lee Young Ho.
ya, I'm not really doubting Flash's overall ability. I just think that Last is one of the only players atm that can upset Flash and based on their history (ASL1 record and very close sponmatch results over the last five months etc...), he has the capability to pull it off especially with TvT being the matchup that he rode on in the past to get to SSL finals and has only improved it more since then. Either way, I think we're in for some really close and intense games so in the end, we're going to be victorious ^^
On May 17 2017 12:38 Essbee wrote:
On May 17 2017 10:09 usopsama wrote: I am rewatching game 2 and I still can't believe Shine's guardians were able to brute-force their way into the front of Mong's base like that after being scouted. His guardians even had to fly across the map. Crazy.
I have been watching Brood War for ten years and I can't recall a memorable game where a zerg used guardians to brute-force their way into the front of a terran's base like that, after being scouted.
Don't know if it could work again but that was hard for Mong to defend, even if he would have had 1 or 2 more wraiths.
You could also do it this way as well marines > hydras tanks > lurkers wraiths > guardians
Haha true, but guardians out-range wraiths, so wraiths have to get closer and then get killed by hydras. Well at least that's how it worked in that specific game, but yeah it could easily go the other way around :D
maybe so but tanks can also be used to target hydras to give wraiths easy access to guardians while the terran pulls back to regroup and get some guardians kills before the next engagement
Yep, as I was saying, it could have went the other way around but there were too few tanks and wraiths for this to happen. But yeah, I doubt this could work everytime haha
The three games Shine won were all hugely entertaining, especially game 2 with the bust with the guardians. Camelot is a small map, but it was still crazy to watch Shine fly guardians all the way across the map and just plow into a Terran base like that.
Lol game 4 was improvised when Shine saw Mong didnt destroy buildings. And also he never lost once with the game 2 build. Im calling it again. New zerg META
On May 17 2017 20:38 Ota Solgryn wrote: Lol game 4 was improvised when Shine saw Mong didnt destroy buildings. And also he never lost once with the game 2 build. Im calling it again. New zerg META
Would be too hilarious if guardians, delcared situational units only, ever became a standard in TvZ metagame. Thats why I predict it wont happen.
On May 17 2017 02:35 M2 wrote: Why is everyone assuming that Flash is a given finalist? Going through Last and Soulkey does not look so free to me
Because he's pretty much the best player ever to play the game...and it's a lot easier to remember how awesome he was than to look at the momentary glimpses of Last, Soulkey and say that they can even touch the Ultimate Weapon. The only one who's got a shot is BeSt. His PvT is very good, but his PvZ is putrid and he'll probably lose to Soulkey.
In sum, Flash is Flash, 'nuff said.
Last has the best chance, he went 3-0 in ASL1 and Flash was already in very good form. Best and Bisu (and even Soulkey) have Outsider and Andromeda, so without Camelot double map it's absolutely doable. That said, all of them are underdogs of course.
Pretty much. I think Last can actually beat Flash. Not 3-0 of course, maybe 3-1 or 3-2. Regardless, it'll be really intense. Flash might be solid and the GOAT but Last is just as great of a player at the moment and has been keeping up with him in rankings for the last good year or so. Also, not sure how many posters remember but Last's TvT is one of his strong matchups. It's actually amazing to see how he has grown since the SSL days. I'm talking drastic improvements.
His TvT was solid back then to the point where he rode it to the finals while his TvP/Z needed work. I remember back when he lost to Guemchi's forge FE and Kwarno's zerg on Sin Peaks of Baedu in SSL10. I was not impressed with his matchups other than TvT but he's made such a turnaround these last couple of years. If Last beats Flash, I think he has a shot at the finals but there's always a chance that BeSt will become the macro monster he was last season (if he beats SK) or that SK will upset him much like ATB finals. Then there always Bisu (if he beats Shine) or Shine who I wouldn't hesitate to call a monster at series' preparation.
Basically, Last is one of the contenders for top players atm and I think Flash fans should be a bit concerned about him facing Last. I could go on and on... Anyways, for me, there's a great storyline to write about if any of the players win the finals and I'm expecting some intense games (except BeSt vs SK, that might be a stomp unless BeSt pulls off the same form during hero last ASL) so all good :D
You have a lot more faith in Last's TvT than I do. I will admit Last's TvZ is currently monstrous and I don't think there's a Zerg around who could best him in a Bo5 (and watching streams, it might be worse than I'm even letting on) but Flash might have the best TvT in BW history. I know anything can happen in a Bo5, but my intuition is screaming that it'll be a 3-1 victory for Lee Young Ho.
ya, I'm not really doubting Flash's overall ability. I just think that Last is one of the only players atm that can upset Flash and based on their history (ASL1 record and very close sponmatch results over the last five months etc...), he has the capability to pull it off especially with TvT being the matchup that he rode on in the past to get to SSL finals and has only improved it more since then. Either way, I think we're in for some really close and intense games so in the end, we're going to be victorious ^^
On May 17 2017 12:38 Essbee wrote:
On May 17 2017 10:09 usopsama wrote: I am rewatching game 2 and I still can't believe Shine's guardians were able to brute-force their way into the front of Mong's base like that after being scouted. His guardians even had to fly across the map. Crazy.
I have been watching Brood War for ten years and I can't recall a memorable game where a zerg used guardians to brute-force their way into the front of a terran's base like that, after being scouted.
Don't know if it could work again but that was hard for Mong to defend, even if he would have had 1 or 2 more wraiths.
You could also do it this way as well marines > hydras tanks > lurkers wraiths > guardians
Haha true, but guardians out-range wraiths, so wraiths have to get closer and then get killed by hydras. Well at least that's how it worked in that specific game, but yeah it could easily go the other way around :D
maybe so but tanks can also be used to target hydras to give wraiths easy access to guardians while the terran pulls back to regroup and get some guardians kills before the next engagement
Yep, as I was saying, it could have went the other way around but there were too few tanks and wraiths for this to happen. But yeah, I doubt this could work everytime haha
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zingVda.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EDA1VSc.jpg)
