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On January 17 2017 22:48 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2017 22:34 [[Starlight]] wrote:On January 17 2017 22:28 classicyellow83 wrote:On January 17 2017 22:26 [[Starlight]] wrote:On January 17 2017 22:10 classicyellow83 wrote:
Imagine winning a really hard series to see people just shit on you instead of congratulating you. That does indeed suck, but still... find it hard to believe that Flash would give up all the money/exposure he gets from participation just because a few trolls leave dumb comments for him. He makes, what, 400-500k USD per year right now, mostly streaming but a significant chunk of it from competition exposure/hype – which also affects his streaming views? Yeah... I think I could take a few obnoxious comments if ignoring 'em and just keeping on keeping on nets me an additional 100k or so USD per year. We all should have such problems, yes?  He doesn't need any more exposure. It didn't hurt Bisu's view nor his income when he didn't participate. It's not the matter of needing it, it's that he can get *even MORE* if he's relevant/winning top competitions against the best players in the world, aka hype. I heart Flash a TON (yes, even more than JD), but if he's not in ASL3, I will be paying a lot more attention to whoever's in it while it's going on than I will to Flash. There's nothing like big-stage competition. edit - oh, and reading your revised comment, I suspect the ASL1 top finishers didn't really benefit much from their showings because they didn't beat anyone big, just each other. Wanna become a star, beat a star, and in a big televised match in front of a studio audience. IMO. You might be overestimating how much extra doing well in ASL even nets these guys. Unless you get first or second, which is no guarantee even for Flash, you might lose just as much from lost streaming time as you hide strats. Granted, I think players get a lot of extra balloons from fans when they win, but this isn't a no brainer "extra $100K" kind of thing.
Don't forget the prize money on top of the other benefits. About $20K USD for winning ASL2, and it looks like there's going to be 2-3 ASLs a year going forward now?
Of course, it would be a bit boring if Flash won every one of 'em...
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So if I'm reading it right, FlaSh and the top dogs make good money but everyone else is scraping by.
Thanks for posting the money stats!
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Also re: comments like "just ignore trolls" forget that Flash isn't one of those genre-savvy kids on the Internet. He only plays games and manages his stream. So he, like every other people who doesn't spend at least 12 hours per day on the web would be inclined to take these msg/comments quite seriously.
No, he doesn't know "memes". ffs, he doesn't even know there was a Win 10.
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I mean it really depends what the end goal for the bw scene is. What is realistic? Having a good streaming scene with some tournaments here and there?
Or trying to get it rolling again with more than ASL and maybe even enough motivation for newcomers.
For the latter TBLS need to support the tournament scene as much as they can i think.
No idea how realistic any of this is btw, just a thought.
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Germany3128 Posts
On January 17 2017 22:56 IntoTheheart wrote:
So if I'm reading it right, FlaSh and the top dogs make good money but everyone else is scraping by.
Thanks for posting the money stats!
well in the end you need one high roller fan and you will probably get by. Though obviously the top dogs make some insane amounts of money, while people with no fans prior to the amateur scene (e.g. B-teamers, or complete newcomers) will not make much
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I think we can mostly agree that while cool to watch, the traditional KeSPA organized teams are probably a thing of the past. That being said, I'm down for a streaming-based sort of platform for competitive BW since I believe that's what AOE2 uses and it works well for them!
On January 17 2017 22:58 TheNewEra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2017 22:56 IntoTheheart wrote:
So if I'm reading it right, FlaSh and the top dogs make good money but everyone else is scraping by.
Thanks for posting the money stats! well in the end you need one high roller fan and you will probably get by. Though obviously the top dogs make some insane amounts of money, while people with no fans prior to the amateur scene (e.g. B-teamers, or complete newcomers) will not make much
I guess this ties well with my post - it feels like (but I don't know shit so keep that in mind, folks) if the actual competitive scene (online/offline) isn't a huge amount of players without new blood coming in, it certainly wouldn't grow. The question I think is whether or not these streaming platforms allow for new blood to make being a BW streamer/player successful.
Before we had KeSPA teams which allowed you to make s o m e money if you were good, and then you had a shot at the bigger contracts and OSL/MSL. Since as I'm sure everyone here knows, #passion is great but you need to make it financially sustainable as well. We used to not have player streams and just roll with salaries, but times have changed.
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On January 17 2017 22:53 TheNewEra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2017 22:48 IntoTheheart wrote:On January 17 2017 22:47 Terrorbladder wrote:On January 17 2017 22:38 IntoTheheart wrote:On January 17 2017 22:37 [[Starlight]] wrote:On January 17 2017 22:36 letian wrote:On January 17 2017 22:35 thezanursic wrote:
I got the impression that Korean fans prefer JD over Flash, is this the case? of course, JD gets all the grills because he is cute :D JD's not that handsome. But that brooding manner of his pulls the chicks in, yes. I want tips on practicing that... asking for a friend. On January 17 2017 22:34 TwoToneTerran wrote:On January 17 2017 22:32 IntoTheheart wrote:
As shitty as it is for me to say this, TwoToneTerran I don't watch/play enough BW to even know what an "instant classic" is besides the hype/story. That's not something to be ashamed of. Everyone starts somewhere. Thanks! :D I definitely think it's a bit awkward if you go check out my shitposting record though, a lot of BW stuff where I just spammed STOOORRRKKKUUUU when he built carriers. Which was a lot. But that was for hype more than game understanding. lol if you don't have good facial aesthetics then brooding just makes you look creepy protip: be handsome Yeah...... so I'm toast, got it! On January 17 2017 22:48 darktreb wrote:On January 17 2017 22:34 [[Starlight]] wrote:On January 17 2017 22:28 classicyellow83 wrote:On January 17 2017 22:26 [[Starlight]] wrote:On January 17 2017 22:10 classicyellow83 wrote:
Imagine winning a really hard series to see people just shit on you instead of congratulating you. That does indeed suck, but still... find it hard to believe that Flash would give up all the money/exposure he gets from participation just because a few trolls leave dumb comments for him. He makes, what, 400-500k USD per year right now, mostly streaming but a significant chunk of it from competition exposure/hype – which also affects his streaming views? Yeah... I think I could take a few obnoxious comments if ignoring 'em and just keeping on keeping on nets me an additional 100k or so USD per year. We all should have such problems, yes? He doesn't need any more exposure. It didn't hurt Bisu's view nor his income when he didn't participate. It's not the matter of needing it, it's that he can get *even MORE* if he's relevant/winning top competitions against the best players in the world, aka hype. I heart Flash a TON (yes, even more than JD), but if he's not in ASL3, I will be paying a lot more attention to whoever's in it while it's going on than I will to Flash. There's nothing like big-stage competition. edit - oh, and reading your revised comment, I suspect the ASL1 top finishers didn't really benefit much from their showings because they didn't beat anyone big, just each other. Wanna become a star, beat a star, and in a big televised match in front of a studio audience. IMO. You might be overestimating how much extra doing well in ASL even nets these guys. Unless you get first or second, which is no guarantee even for Flash, you might lose just as much from lost streaming time as you hide strats. Granted, I think players get a lot of extra balloons from fans when they win, but this isn't a no brainer "extra $100K" kind of thing. Do we know what the finances of being a BW streamer actually look like? I know that on Twitch there are certain things like donations and subs where you split part of the sub with Twitch, but I don't know much/anything about BW straemers. for example http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/512299-top-10-earners-of-july
Wow, and yup... $37K USD for Flash in streaming revenue in just the month of July alone(!)
Dunno if that's before or after Afreeca's cut, which is 20% for a partner BJ like Flash is.
Then there's revenue on top of it from ads, sponsorships, and now, tourneys for him. Pretty freakin' nice, eh?
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Germany3128 Posts
On January 17 2017 22:59 IntoTheheart wrote:I think we can mostly agree that while cool to watch, the traditional KeSPA organized teams are probably a thing of the past. That being said, I'm down for a streaming-based sort of platform for competitive BW since I believe that's what AOE2 uses and it works well for them! Show nested quote +On January 17 2017 22:58 TheNewEra wrote:On January 17 2017 22:56 IntoTheheart wrote:
So if I'm reading it right, FlaSh and the top dogs make good money but everyone else is scraping by.
Thanks for posting the money stats! well in the end you need one high roller fan and you will probably get by. Though obviously the top dogs make some insane amounts of money, while people with no fans prior to the amateur scene (e.g. B-teamers, or complete newcomers) will not make much I guess this ties well with my post - it feels like (but I don't know shit so keep that in mind, folks) if the actual competitive scene (online/offline) isn't a huge amount of players without new blood coming in, it certainly wouldn't grow. The question I think is whether or not these streaming platforms allow for new blood to make being a BW streamer/player successful. Before we had KeSPA teams which allowed you to make s o m e money if you were good, and then you had a shot at the bigger contracts and OSL/MSL. Since as I'm sure everyone here knows, #passion is great but you need to make it financially sustainable as well. We used to not have player streams and just roll with salaries, but times have changed.
I think it would be good for newcomers if we had like 4 or 5 smaller clans in the scene instead of the 2 big ones and then some kind of clan league.
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Clan leagues would definitely be super watchable.
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On January 17 2017 23:05 TheNewEra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2017 22:59 IntoTheheart wrote:I think we can mostly agree that while cool to watch, the traditional KeSPA organized teams are probably a thing of the past. That being said, I'm down for a streaming-based sort of platform for competitive BW since I believe that's what AOE2 uses and it works well for them! On January 17 2017 22:58 TheNewEra wrote:On January 17 2017 22:56 IntoTheheart wrote:
So if I'm reading it right, FlaSh and the top dogs make good money but everyone else is scraping by.
Thanks for posting the money stats! well in the end you need one high roller fan and you will probably get by. Though obviously the top dogs make some insane amounts of money, while people with no fans prior to the amateur scene (e.g. B-teamers, or complete newcomers) will not make much I guess this ties well with my post - it feels like (but I don't know shit so keep that in mind, folks) if the actual competitive scene (online/offline) isn't a huge amount of players without new blood coming in, it certainly wouldn't grow. The question I think is whether or not these streaming platforms allow for new blood to make being a BW streamer/player successful. Before we had KeSPA teams which allowed you to make s o m e money if you were good, and then you had a shot at the bigger contracts and OSL/MSL. Since as I'm sure everyone here knows, #passion is great but you need to make it financially sustainable as well. We used to not have player streams and just roll with salaries, but times have changed. I think it would be good for newcomers if we had like 4 or 5 smaller clans in the scene instead of the 2 big ones and then some kind of clan league.
Yeah that would be nice indeed! It is up to the players to create these kind of things to help the scene in the long run. (and no i don't wanna imply they don't do anything, i simply do not know enough about the korean scene outside of ASL)
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https://s.fishbattle.net/server_info
Fish seems to still be doing quite well - hitting 12k players on average per day. Which if you think about it, isn't too bad all things considered. I really wonder how well BW as a game will do ifwhen Blizzard releases Brood War HD.
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The two clans are run by the two biggest bw bjs - terror and britney. I rememeber reading that britney was sharing some of his cash with members of the clan. So that is good. Players in the range of having 20-50 regular viewers on afreeca needs some extra cash to be able to sustain playing bw without a dayjob.
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On January 17 2017 22:58 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I mean it really depends what the end goal for the bw scene is. What is realistic? Having a good streaming scene with some tournaments here and there?
Or trying to get it rolling again with more than ASL and maybe even enough motivation for newcomers.
For the latter TBLS need to support the tournament scene as much as they can i think.
No idea how realistic any of this is btw, just a thought.
I think a lot of ppl want Proleague to come back. Could it? Maybe, but given that you'd likely have medium-sized team sponsors instead of the 'big guys' (like Samsung, Korean Air, etc), and that the star players (or even guys like Larva, lol) make VERY good money off of streaming and probably wouldn't want to give that up for the amount of $$ their teams would be willing to pay them... how then would that be made to work out?
Would the teams be willing to have players who were part-time team members/part-time streamers? aka Flash or Jaedong or even a lot of the non-stars practice with the team for like a few hours, and then they go and stream for themselves in the evening? Or perhaps the team practices themselves get monetized as streaming, except for 'secret practices' in the run up to matches?
Dunno. The economic model/incentivization that would work for everyone would be very interesting to see.
(And on top of all this... what if they did a Reality TV show with the teams/players? Stork's dates and Terror's Bomb Shelter Studio™ on top of BW and the hype-uuuu of constant competition... I'd watch, even with subtitles).
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Over 300,000 viewers today. =)
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Much respect for Flash, I honestly think he broke the game already for TvZ. But the insane mechanics and drills to reach his levels make T still beatable for the rest of the mortals. Even in his streams, he only loses when he makes careless mistakes, does something new or opponent gets lucky. The guy is unbeatable right now in bo5 when takes it seriously. His skill can break whatever momentum or confidence his opponent can muster. I used to watch a lot of his earlier streams since coming back and it was refreshing to see BEST and Effort rape him in 1 or 2 sets of Bo7 and 5 games, but eventually now I feel he's even better than he was at his prime in 2011 while all the other guys near his level have gotten slightly(Jaedong, Effort) or much, much worse (Bisu, Stork). Unless people like Hero and Last can make that giant leap or Jangbi and Fantasy return, it's going to be tough to make things interesting for people other than older, hardcore fans
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This fucked up situation with Flash and trolls puts him nearly bursting into tears after winning game 5 in a different perspective. Flash really doesn't deserve to be treated like this. Well at least he's rich as fuck, unlike mindless terran-haters.
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On January 17 2017 23:15 classicyellow83 wrote:
Over 300,000 viewers today. =)
Awesome. And a very fun fact to bring up the next time some slack-jawed yokel says, "Hurh durh, isn't Brood War a 'dead gaem'??" 
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Finals are TvT and the opponents are not FBH or Fantasy
oh god.
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On January 17 2017 23:18 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2017 23:15 classicyellow83 wrote:
Over 300,000 viewers today. =) Awesome. And a very fun fact to bring up the next time some slack-jawed yokel says, "Hurh durh, isn't Brood War a 'dead gaem'??"
At the same time LoL league and Overwatch League was on Afreeca and ASL totally destroyed them both.
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nah, everybody got worse including Flash, so Flash still looked good in comparison. However understanding of the game definitely went up (this also goes for every1).
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EPT
