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On December 11 2016 21:16 Harem wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 21:05 tanngard wrote:
I have never experienced a darker time for zerg...and zero not competing despite him just winning Thrill starleague.. I hope Zero join in on the next one, because he is sorely needed. ? Zero would just choke and fail like he always does. Zerg has been godawful and irrelevant without Killer.
???
Before Shuttle won last season, Zerg won the three big starleagues prior to that. And take a look at this list: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Leagues/Post-KeSPA_Tournaments
If anything it is Protoss that is suffering and Zero is the online king along with Sea. And i did not say that Zero would win the whole tournament, because like you say he has problems with pulling it all the way in the big leagues on stage, but the point is that we would want more zergs in the ro16 and later on.
Edit: Zerg won two season prior to last one, not three.
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On December 11 2016 21:20 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 21:15 eekmice wrote:On December 11 2016 21:07 Archaeo wrote:On December 11 2016 21:02 Miragee wrote:On December 11 2016 20:59 Archaeo wrote:
I despise protoss so much... Yeah? Soulkey just didn't play very good. I mean Movie didn't play great, either, but he was mostly solid. I have never been a fan of this "turtle all the way into late game" style by zerg. It doesn't work very well because protoss has all the time in the world to expand (which movie didn't) and get a sick reaver/storm/archon army up and running. Turtling was pretty necessary given that Movie had a lot of gateways off two base. In fact, that's the usual reaction ZvP if you see that protoss is delaying their third. It was reactionary, he couldn't play any other way. Hence, the 1000 sunkens to defend. exactly this. it's clearly evident that some people haven't played even b-c iccup/pgt level. soulkey scouted all the possible expos and movie only had 2 bases. wtf do you think he's doing? building probes? he's doing a fucking one big army timing push to secure his 3rd with hts and a few zeals. You need some army to flank though. Sunkens don't win you the game. Hell, they don't even let you defend your base once reavers are out.
Yeah those two 31/28 kill Reavers looked like they did a number. Don't think I've seen Reavers get that many free shots/kills in a pro game before.
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Soulkey -. -...
Jaedong better save the swarm ffs
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On December 11 2016 21:08 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 21:03 Maks wrote:
so much pressure on jaedong and by.hero now Wouldn't it be funny if Jaedong was the only Zerg in the Ro16, and yet he took the whole thing?
Only 2 terrans in Ro16 at Blizzcon in SC2 this year yet one of them took it. I suppose not all hope is lost.
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I for one, really enjoyed todays group. Realy exciting games and props to terror for his performance against Flash!
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He really needed some mutas or hydras to kill the reavers to hold the third, that small choke point with the roundabout pathing from the main was super bad for lings, especially with the 1111111111111 sunkens blocking everything up. He probably overbuilt sunkens too (I mean come on, there was two behind the mineral line at the third; wtf are they going to do).
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On December 11 2016 21:20 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 21:15 eekmice wrote:On December 11 2016 21:07 Archaeo wrote:On December 11 2016 21:02 Miragee wrote:On December 11 2016 20:59 Archaeo wrote:
I despise protoss so much... Yeah? Soulkey just didn't play very good. I mean Movie didn't play great, either, but he was mostly solid. I have never been a fan of this "turtle all the way into late game" style by zerg. It doesn't work very well because protoss has all the time in the world to expand (which movie didn't) and get a sick reaver/storm/archon army up and running. Turtling was pretty necessary given that Movie had a lot of gateways off two base. In fact, that's the usual reaction ZvP if you see that protoss is delaying their third. It was reactionary, he couldn't play any other way. Hence, the 1000 sunkens to defend. exactly this. it's clearly evident that some people haven't played even b-c iccup/pgt level. soulkey scouted all the possible expos and movie only had 2 bases. wtf do you think he's doing? building probes? he's doing a fucking one big army timing push to secure his 3rd with hts and a few zeals. You need some army to flank though. Sunkens don't win you the game. Hell, they don't even let you defend your base once reavers are out.
yes his army comp or lack thereof was piss poor. but his decision to play defensive was 100% correct which is what you were arguing. at that timing when toss comes out is when they have +2 weapon upgrade which means that zerg units melt unless you have adrenaline upgrade and a few more upgrades done.
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hero the last hope,jaedong still very far to be a real contender.
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On December 11 2016 21:16 sparklyresidue wrote:
Lots of Protoss! And they say BW is different than SC2! Not so much, it would seem!
But seriously folks...
Awesome to see Flash going through! Hoping Jaedong can do the same when him time comes.
History of BW is a history of hummilating defeats for a Protoss.
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On December 11 2016 21:10 BrosephBrostar wrote:
How did SK run out of gas when he was on 4 base? Even though all the drones died at one shouldn't he at least have had enough to make more than 5 mutas?
I dunno... I think he didn't even have an extractor in his lower right base IIRC, for some reason.
So that plus a lot of dead drones, plus needlessly throwing away a lot of high-gas scourge and mutas.
Still can't figure out why his scourge just 'froze' like deer in headlights in front of that corsair group. 
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Wow, that last game of the group was so intense. I cannot believe that Movie actually managed to win.
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TBLS not disappointing so far. I hope Jaedong will also 2-0 his group.
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On December 11 2016 21:30 eekmice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 21:20 Miragee wrote:On December 11 2016 21:15 eekmice wrote:On December 11 2016 21:07 Archaeo wrote:On December 11 2016 21:02 Miragee wrote:On December 11 2016 20:59 Archaeo wrote:
I despise protoss so much... Yeah? Soulkey just didn't play very good. I mean Movie didn't play great, either, but he was mostly solid. I have never been a fan of this "turtle all the way into late game" style by zerg. It doesn't work very well because protoss has all the time in the world to expand (which movie didn't) and get a sick reaver/storm/archon army up and running. Turtling was pretty necessary given that Movie had a lot of gateways off two base. In fact, that's the usual reaction ZvP if you see that protoss is delaying their third. It was reactionary, he couldn't play any other way. Hence, the 1000 sunkens to defend. exactly this. it's clearly evident that some people haven't played even b-c iccup/pgt level. soulkey scouted all the possible expos and movie only had 2 bases. wtf do you think he's doing? building probes? he's doing a fucking one big army timing push to secure his 3rd with hts and a few zeals. You need some army to flank though. Sunkens don't win you the game. Hell, they don't even let you defend your base once reavers are out. yes his army comp or lack thereof was piss poor. but his decision to play defensive was 100% correct which is what you were arguing. at that timing when toss comes out is when they have +2 weapon upgrade which means that zerg units melt unless you have adrenaline upgrade and a few more upgrades done.
Sorry if I worded that badly. I wasn't arguing against playing defensive. I was arguing against the 100 % turtle style with a billion sunkens. Like, he didn't even had the chance to apply any pressure or flank or anything. All he could do was to wait until Movie attacks and see if he breaks through or not, which is a bad plan imho. Zerg's only advantage in these kinds of scenarios is that they are very mobile while having decent defensive option. A few sunkens + lurkers can be a big hurdle that take some time to take down; time enough for flanks, reinforcements etc. He build far too many sunkens though (probably around 10-15 per natural) and thus didn't have any army to move to the other natural for when the protoss decides to flip flop between the naturals.
So my point is you need to have a few sunkens+lurkers+some units at your nat and as soon as the protoss attacks you have to move in your flank from behind to get the goons/HTs/Reavers while all those units are busy attacking sunkens.
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On December 11 2016 21:54 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 21:10 BrosephBrostar wrote:
How did SK run out of gas when he was on 4 base? Even though all the drones died at one shouldn't he at least have had enough to make more than 5 mutas? I dunno... I think he didn't even have an extractor in his lower right base IIRC, for some reason. So that plus a lot of dead drones, plus needlessly throwing away a lot of high-gas scourge and mutas. Still can't figure out why his scourge just 'froze' like deer in headlights in front of that corsair group.
it's a normal thing with scourge. They fly to the target, stop, then accelerate again to suicide into them, it happens a lot of times against units that aren't moving.
If you watch closely, you will notice that the zergs oftentimes try to flank the early corsair(s) for the reason of scourge being a bit funny. It's also the reason why a corsair can fly all the way from the zerg base to his natural/main to be protected by cannons, despite the scourge being slightly faster than corsairs. The scourge will simply not just always immediately suicide into them when they catch up but instead do this stopping and whatnot
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I like how the results in the OP are very 2009 LR thread style  . Feels right
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On December 11 2016 21:06 Glioburd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 21:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
do u think zerg winning all game long then this race we all know decides to do an 1a 2a 3a and zerg is dead ... When you start to say such nonsense it's time to stop posting.
cool story http://imgur.com/jyY1Heq
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On December 12 2016 01:12 Vasoline73 wrote:I like how the results in the OP are very 2009 LR thread style . Feels right
yes and i love this way so much,i dont like at all everything linked to liqupedia tt
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On December 12 2016 01:23 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 21:06 Glioburd wrote:On December 11 2016 21:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
do u think zerg winning all game long then this race we all know decides to do an 1a 2a 3a and zerg is dead ... When you start to say such nonsense it's time to stop posting. cool story http://imgur.com/jyY1Heq
zerg wasn't winning all game, and literally all Movie had to do was kill sunkens, there isn't much to it. This was sunken defense 2000.
I don't get why soulkey didn't make lurkers, it's a pain to break sunkens+a bunch of lurkers
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On December 12 2016 01:23 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 21:06 Glioburd wrote:On December 11 2016 21:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
do u think zerg winning all game long then this race we all know decides to do an 1a 2a 3a and zerg is dead ... When you start to say such nonsense it's time to stop posting. cool story http://imgur.com/jyY1Heq
I've seen the game, thanks. Don't worry, not understanding BW isn't that much a big deal if you can rely on your mechanics. Good luck to you.
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EPT
