EPTOn February 14 2007 04:46 Hot_Bid wrote:
...game 1 nada had a brilliant build and got a little lucky...
...game 1 nada had a brilliant build and got a little lucky...
BRILLIANT BUILD
Nada has no strategic skills
ok. wtf
OSL Semifinal #1 - Page 31
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
|
PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
BRILLIANT BUILD Nada has no strategic skills ok. wtf | ||
|
[GiTM]-Ace
United States4935 Posts
On February 14 2007 04:46 Hot_Bid wrote: game 1 nada had a brilliant build and got a little lucky game 2 nada dominated game 3 nada was ahead due but casy made a ridiculous comeback game 4 casy dominated game 5 really close but nada multitask pulled him ahead its a mirror matchup, don't see how anyone can say casy was the better player, better players WIN yea lol the better player won.. its not like a map imba or race imba whoever played the best wins  | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Games 1, 2, and first half of game 3 weren't by Casy at all. They were probably by Casy[name] or something instead, someone who tricked his way into that booth. Then like halfway through Casy took over the controls and started playing awesomezorz. NaDa was caught off guard until game 5, when he took that break beforehand and turned on Genius mode and adapted to Casy, winning a pure skill no-luck straightup TvT on that map. | ||
|
siro)
Australia848 Posts
I have nada/savior final. And I don't see how anyone can argue nada's #1 TvT. | ||
|
Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On February 14 2007 04:46 Hot_Bid wrote: game 1 nada had a brilliant build and got a little lucky game 2 nada dominated game 3 nada was ahead due but casy made a ridiculous comeback game 4 casy dominated game 5 really close but nada multitask pulled him ahead its a mirror matchup, don't see how anyone can say casy was the better player, better players WIN They both played great, both with their respective strengths. I would say Casy played a little better. Maybe more beautiful fits what I want to say more than better. He showed a greater TvT understanding. On February 14 2007 04:47 Hot_Bid wrote: thats a pretty narrow definition of "strategically" 99% of the time when people say "player X is strategically better than player Y" they mean builds and overall game strategy not a specific part like "drops" Yeah probably. I couldn't think of a better word, what would've been a more appropriate wording? English isn't my first language. | ||
|
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
| ||
|
Mickey
United States2606 Posts
| ||
|
PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
Seriously.. Game 1 and 2 were hardcore rape by NaDa. Game 3 and 4 were hardcore rape by Casy. Game 5 was close till the end until NaDa won with superior macro. So basicaly : Games 1 and 2 : +2 for nada and game 3 and 4 : +2 for Casy. Game 5 NaDa'S so.. i cant understand how u still think Casys better or understand TvT better or whatever.. Its the same with the anytime vs nada series. Some fags just.. said anytime was better even though he fucked up game 5 and lost to an awesome timing and macro from NaDa and still some said anytime was better than NaDa. Thats just blin bias. Im a NaDa fan, yes , but i would never said NaDa was better than Casy if he lost to Casy cause its totally absurd AND ESPECIALLY absurd after we saw game 1 and 2... whatever.. some people are just blind. Orome u are one of these guys who still cant accept NaDa is godly, even after he wins his 4th OSl arent u ?? n/C.. | ||
|
PanoRaMa
United States5069 Posts
On February 14 2007 04:49 MaGic~PhiL wrote: BRILLIANT BUILD Nada has no strategic skills ok. wtf You seem a bit confused there between the two blue names. But anyway, while it's lucky for NaDa to get his ace map twice in a bo5, isn't it ultimately each player's responsibility to be able to master the maps anyway? The maps rotate every several months, and each new map change a player's true ability is measured additionally by his performance on new maps (aka why immense practice is necessary). In other words, NaDa's superb play on Arkanoid is a by-product of his overall ability, then? | ||
|
Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On February 14 2007 04:44 MaGic~PhiL wrote: And once again some Nada haters manage to twist the truth. Basicaly the same when some ***** said that Anytime was the better player in the final, even though he lost, because he played worse. That ***** was DJEtterStyle, maybe the most knowledge person about progaming on this forum. I won't even quote the rest of that post, it's ridiculous and not in any way what I said. On February 14 2007 04:48 MaGic~PhiL wrote: And game 1 and 2 werent dominant at all, were they !? No i agree actually game 1 and 2 were close as hell and NaDa barely won them.. Game 1 was a build order win. Game 2 was dominant, but Casy was playing badly. In game 4, Nada was playing well, that's what made Casy's domination impressive. This is what I mean with you getting annoying when you start fanboying. You get way too emotional about things. | ||
|
Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
On February 14 2007 04:46 Hot_Bid wrote: game 1 nada had a brilliant build and got a little lucky game 2 nada dominated game 3 nada was ahead due but casy made a ridiculous comeback game 4 casy dominated game 5 really close but nada multitask pulled him ahead its a mirror matchup, don't see how anyone can say casy was the better player, better players WIN this is simple minded bullshit 1) Nada did a standard cheese. This doesn't say much at all. This doesn't say nada was good. This doesn't say nada was bad. I will admit, the cheese had that "nada timing" to it, but nothing else much 2) Nada made a single excellent decision early game: the choice to perform the 7 marine + tank + vulture rush after he saw the fast CC. This decision alone was the only truly "brilliant" move that nada pulled during the game. After that crushing blow, nada simply played solidly and aggressively for the remainder of the game 3) Casy got a bit screwed by Nada's excellent micro early on. Despite being hammered in the face for the rest of the game, numerous key decisions in the last several minutes of the game pulled a brilliant comeback by Casy. Nada didn't exactly make any mistakes, Casy just made vastly superior decisions. For example, Casy opted to sack his natural expansion (his only running expansion) for the opportunity to drop both of Nada's running expos w/ 4 gollies. This was the final, brilliant finishing blow. 4) As Orome stated perfectly, I've never seen such a high level TvT outclassing before. Everything about Casy's play dynamic was exceptional. He demonstrated how sick, well timed aggression can not only win at key moments, but also (assuming you haven't won already) provide excellent opportunities to gain map control and expand. A good example of how casy was controlling nada: Casy built turrets at various spots throughout the map. Casy forced Nada to put his army in various places so precisely that Nada never had the opportunity to kill 1 or 2 lone turrets nearby his main in the center of the map. Pulling any terran player, let alone nada, around like that is a hallmark of a superior player 5) Nada made several solid, consistent decisions which won him this game: he continuously dropped and placed tanks effectively at the @3 natural, negating Casy's midgame expansion opportunities. Moreover, Nada had his classic sick macro throughout the game. Nonetheless, Casy relied on finesseful moves and abusing the center position in odd ways to put pressure on Nada in the early-midgame. Again, we saw in this game how effectively Casy can force his opponent's army to be where he wants it. Had Casy secured the @3 expansion a tad sooner, he would have smashed Nada. Again, we saw very well in the last 3 games the kind of TvT Casy can perform: He knows exactly how and when to attack to force his opponents play. In the first two games, Nada made such well timed/chosen early game attacks, that we didn't get to see Casy shine. In the last game, Casy worked his magic, but couldn't outmacro Nada on 5 gas vs himself on 3. Therefore, although Nada won the series, I feel that Casy is the stronger player. "better players win" my ass. Ever heard of Silver? EAT IT HOT BID | ||
|
PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
| ||
|
Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
On February 14 2007 04:59 Orome wrote: That ***** was DJEtterStyle, maybe the most knowledge person about progaming on this forum. I'd like this title  | ||
|
PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
I mean u can say u liked game 1 and 2 less than 3 and 4 and u can say that was lucky and that pure art, but thats all so subjective. SO why not just go with the truth ? NaDa won a close match vs a TvT Ace but in the end NaDa was barely the one to win and since he didnt do any big faults, but just lost two games to one of the bestTvT's ever i dont think u can say Casy was better or Nada didnt deserve it. Casy played fucking awesome, but nada was just better. | ||
|
SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
Now we can cry together. Tissue? | ||
|
siro)
Australia848 Posts
On February 14 2007 04:59 Day[9] wrote: this is simple minded bullshit 1) Nada did a standard cheese. This doesn't say much at all. This doesn't say nada was good. This doesn't say nada was bad. I will admit, the cheese had that "nada timing" to it, but nothing else much 2) Nada made a single excellent decision early game: the choice to perform the 7 marine + tank + vulture rush after he saw the fast CC. This decision alone was the only truly "brilliant" move that nada pulled during the game. After that crushing blow, nada simply played solidly and aggressively for the remainder of the game 3) Casy got a bit screwed by Nada's excellent micro early on. Despite being hammered in the face for the rest of the game, numerous key decisions in the last several minutes of the game pulled a brilliant comeback by Casy. Nada didn't exactly make any mistakes, Casy just made vastly superior decisions. For example, Casy opted to sack his natural expansion (his only running expansion) for the opportunity to drop both of Nada's running expos w/ 4 gollies. This was the final, brilliant finishing blow. 4) As Orome stated perfectly, I've never seen such a high level TvT outclassing before. Everything about Casy's play dynamic was exceptional. He demonstrated how sick, well timed aggression can not only win at key moments, but also (assuming you haven't won already) provide excellent opportunities to gain map control and expand. A good example of how casy was controlling nada: Casy built turrets at various spots throughout the map. Casy forced Nada to put his army in various places so precisely that Nada never had the opportunity to kill 1 or 2 lone turrets nearby his main in the center of the map. Pulling any terran player, let alone nada, around like that is a hallmark of a superior player 5) Nada made several solid, consistent decisions which won him this game: he continuously dropped and placed tanks effectively at the @3 natural, negating Casy's midgame expansion opportunities. Moreover, Nada had his classic sick macro throughout the game. Nonetheless, Casy relied on finesseful moves and abusing the center position in odd ways to put pressure on Nada in the early-midgame. Again, we saw in this game how effectively Casy can force his opponent's army to be where he wants it. Had Casy secured the @3 expansion a tad sooner, he would have smashed Nada. Again, we saw very well in the last 3 games the kind of TvT Casy can perform: He knows exactly how and when to attack to force his opponents play. In the first two games, Nada made such well timed/chosen early game attacks, that we didn't get to see Casy shine. In the last game, Casy worked his magic, but couldn't outmacro Nada on 5 gas vs himself on 3. Therefore, although Nada won the series, I feel that Casy is the stronger player. "better players win" my ass. Ever heard of Silver? EAT IT HOT BID you say shit like casy got screwed by nada's micro.. what the fuck. Credit to nada for playing well? Nope. Look I can play this game too. Game 4, BO win. Early facts > early CC.. nada defended best possible but lost way too many scv's and could never mount any agression. I admire Casy's play, it's entertaining. But to say it's BETTER, not a chance - as we just witnessed. | ||
|
SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
Casy went in for that 1 vulture advantage and did SO much with it. 1 vulture, 2 marine = 5+ scv kills.... all off 1 rax, 1 fact. Which he followed up with starport to increase damage while catching up expo and then slowly controlling map. Even the vultures and the mines, while the attack failed miseraby, controlled the map with mines. His break out of Nada's mines and preventing Nada's map control was another huge aspect. That's already within the game's first 7 minutes. I'm not in a mood to argue, but the way I see it, I would still re-bet all my liquibet points, and I would still lose another $100 dollars on Casy. It was a bad beat, a suck out. | ||
|
PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
Orome says : ''Game 1 was a build order win. Game 2 was dominant, but Casy was playing badly. In game 4, Nada was playing well, that's what made Casy's domination impressive.'' Orome who are u to decide if NaDa played well in game 4 and Casy sucked in game 1 and 2 ? Seriously !? The difference between the 4 games were, that in game 1 and 2 NaDa strategy ( yes STRATEGY) was just much better and perfectly outplayed Casy. So i wouldnt say Casy was any bad but Nadas strategy and execution was just too good and Casy couldnt have done anything against it, really. Game 4 was indeed amazing by Casy and i was truly stunned , but on the other hand NaDa didnt do much at all got early pressure with Wraiths, lost many stuff and in the end just played weaker. And didnt play as well. So just lets face it : Nada and Casy are both amazing T's and pretty good at TvT. No one can really say who has the better micro/strategy/macro because u would need to analyze the replay to know that, because i.e. in game 4 Casy had much more units which doesnt neceserily have to do something with macro but with advantage due to strategic moves.. So in the end : BOth played amazing both would have deserved it and in the end nada won. So for me the winner of this match is also the better player. At least in this bo5, otherwise the world would be a disc. But oh well.. So u said i got fanboyish and too emotional. So again the question arises : Are u some kind of magician who can see me now typing this ? DO you have any clue which expression im having on my face while writing this ? Do you really think i get angry or mad if someone writes an other opinion than i do ? Im not emotional at all, i m just stating some opinions. | ||
|
One Page Memory
Bulgaria2145 Posts
Wins don't count anyways. All was luck, imba maps, cheese and opponent don't playing as usual. For me I know where Nada must be - number two. K10x | ||
|
PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On February 14 2007 05:09 SuperJongMan wrote: You underestimate game 4's really solid build. Casy went in for that 1 vulture advantage and did SO much with it. 1 vulture, 2 marine = 5+ scv kills.... all off 1 rax, 1 fact. Which he followed up with starport to increase damage while catching up expo and then slowly controlling map. Even the vultures and the mines, while the attack failed miseraby, controlled the map with mines. His break out of Nada's mines and preventing Nada's map control was another huge aspect. That's already within the game's first 7 minutes. I'm not in a mood to argue, but the way I see it, I would still re-bet all my liquibet points, and I would still lose another $100 dollars on Casy. It was a bad beat, a suck out. A bad beat. Lol lets just see the facts and nothing else OK !? Objectivity nothing else.. game 1 : Nada wins clearly game 2 : Nada wins clearly game 3 : Casy wins close game 4 : Casy wíns clearly game 5 : Nada wins close ( could even argue about it being clearly) Everything else : Strategy, macro, micro, decision making, luck, bad luck, state of mind, coolness, teeth is JUST PURE subjetivity and bias. So i simply say : NaDa won. Deserved it and Casy lost, but could have won, as well. Casy isnt the worse player, but in this bo5 NaDa was the better and won. | ||
| ||
