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On February 14 2007 14:35 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2007 12:25 One Page Memory wrote:On February 14 2007 12:19 Byyk wrote:
To conclude if Savior beats all terrans on the such bad maps that is the prove that He is the best player of all time.
GoGoGo Savior! All-time? You mean all-fucking-time? Maybe 2-3 years later, when Savior takes another 5-6 titles - yeah, but now - NO! And no misunderstandings - I am a Nada fan, but clearly Savior is better nowadays. he has shown teh most skill out of any player in history. think of it this way, back when they were playing baseball with 160 lb guys, did the records mean as much?
ya they did because it was strictly skill back then( and really it is now, but a lot of people get passed up because of their size which is retarded to me, baseball is definately a "skill" sport, being athletic and big means nothing if you arent good.
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The final result of this semi must have been 3-0 for Nada. Just because the first two games ran too fast (few minutes each) which upset the fans, when Nada took a huge lead in the middle of game 3 he thought of doing smth miracle for the benefit of all of us, it's losing it :D . The genius went a bit too far when giving Casy game 4 also before took it seriously again and finished final game of a would-be totally boring bo5 haha
Sorry Casy's fans, just joke : )
A die-hard fan of "Nothing"
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On February 14 2007 20:18 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2007 14:35 oneofthem wrote:On February 14 2007 12:25 One Page Memory wrote:On February 14 2007 12:19 Byyk wrote:
To conclude if Savior beats all terrans on the such bad maps that is the prove that He is the best player of all time.
GoGoGo Savior! All-time? You mean all-fucking-time? Maybe 2-3 years later, when Savior takes another 5-6 titles - yeah, but now - NO! And no misunderstandings - I am a Nada fan, but clearly Savior is better nowadays. he has shown teh most skill out of any player in history. think of it this way, back when they were playing baseball with 160 lb guys, did the records mean as much? ya they did because it was strictly skill back then( and really it is now, but a lot of people get passed up because of their size which is retarded to me, baseball is definately a "skill" sport, being athletic and big means nothing if you arent good. well now a different example then, 100 meter sprint.
assuming tournament wins are skill based, all it means to win a tournament is that you were better than those who participated in teh tournament. given the amount of training and strategic evolution in progaming, i'd say that the current scene is much tougher than it was back then.
in any case, saying "who's the best" is pretty vague (to say the least) if one were to say "nada won teh most tourneys/dominated for the longest time/was elite for the longest time" then there would be no problem, and i dont think one would have a problem with something like "savior would win any/most player in history consistently"
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On February 14 2007 20:06 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2007 18:34 muramasa wrote:
There simply isn't room for two "major" leagues, one of them has to be less prestigious than the other. Compare SC to major league sports in North America; there's one big time league. There are things like the CFL and the WHL and shit like that, but they're small potatoes and casual fans don't give a shit about them. That's basically the position the MSL is in.
The MSL generally has better balanced maps, just as good players (if not better), and a better tournament format. They'll continue to get raped in the ratings by OGN because they've already been designated to being the "minor" league.
Did the OGN Starleagues start up before the MSL or something? I haven't been watching since the begining. i wouldn't quite compare the OSL to the NFL and the MSL to the CFL, yes the OSL is more prestigious but not THAT much more, the CFL is basically not even worth mentioning
It's not really a league though; it's tournaments with qualification stages. So the analogy doesn't hold water.
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I don't think it's a great analogy either. But the fact is they're both televised sports (I think we all agree on this) on several times a week. A casual fan isn't going to tune in to watch 20 hours of SC a week, so for them there's only room to follow one league. And from what Korean posters here say, the people choose to watch the OSL over the MSL for whatever reasons.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On February 14 2007 21:50 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2007 20:18 Sadist wrote:On February 14 2007 14:35 oneofthem wrote:On February 14 2007 12:25 One Page Memory wrote:On February 14 2007 12:19 Byyk wrote:
To conclude if Savior beats all terrans on the such bad maps that is the prove that He is the best player of all time.
GoGoGo Savior! All-time? You mean all-fucking-time? Maybe 2-3 years later, when Savior takes another 5-6 titles - yeah, but now - NO! And no misunderstandings - I am a Nada fan, but clearly Savior is better nowadays. he has shown teh most skill out of any player in history. think of it this way, back when they were playing baseball with 160 lb guys, did the records mean as much? ya they did because it was strictly skill back then( and really it is now, but a lot of people get passed up because of their size which is retarded to me, baseball is definately a "skill" sport, being athletic and big means nothing if you arent good. well now a different example then, 100 meter sprint. assuming tournament wins are skill based, all it means to win a tournament is that you were better than those who participated in teh tournament. given the amount of training and strategic evolution in progaming, i'd say that the current scene is much tougher than it was back then. in any case, saying "who's the best" is pretty vague (to say the least) if one were to say "nada won teh most tourneys/dominated for the longest time/was elite for the longest time" then there would be no problem, and i dont think one would have a problem with something like "savior would win any/most player in history consistently"
your statements are virtually identical to the arguments that I have seen when comparing differnt eras of baseball (steriods era, the "lowered" mound era, the negro league era) or golf (tiger woods-2000, jack nicklaus-1970, ben hogan-1950, bobby jones-1920).
This kind of argument never works
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On February 14 2007 05:05 SuperJongMan wrote:
Day~~ Thank you for coming to my defence.
Now we can cry together.
Tissue?
Add me too 
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On February 14 2007 22:23 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2007 21:50 oneofthem wrote:On February 14 2007 20:18 Sadist wrote:On February 14 2007 14:35 oneofthem wrote:On February 14 2007 12:25 One Page Memory wrote:On February 14 2007 12:19 Byyk wrote:
To conclude if Savior beats all terrans on the such bad maps that is the prove that He is the best player of all time.
GoGoGo Savior! All-time? You mean all-fucking-time? Maybe 2-3 years later, when Savior takes another 5-6 titles - yeah, but now - NO! And no misunderstandings - I am a Nada fan, but clearly Savior is better nowadays. he has shown teh most skill out of any player in history. think of it this way, back when they were playing baseball with 160 lb guys, did the records mean as much? ya they did because it was strictly skill back then( and really it is now, but a lot of people get passed up because of their size which is retarded to me, baseball is definately a "skill" sport, being athletic and big means nothing if you arent good. well now a different example then, 100 meter sprint. assuming tournament wins are skill based, all it means to win a tournament is that you were better than those who participated in teh tournament. given the amount of training and strategic evolution in progaming, i'd say that the current scene is much tougher than it was back then. in any case, saying "who's the best" is pretty vague (to say the least) if one were to say "nada won teh most tourneys/dominated for the longest time/was elite for the longest time" then there would be no problem, and i dont think one would have a problem with something like "savior would win any/most player in history consistently" your statements are virtually identical to the arguments that I have seen when comparing differnt eras of baseball (steriods era, the "lowered" mound era, the negro league era) or golf (tiger woods-2000, jack nicklaus-1970, ben hogan-1950, bobby jones-1920). This kind of argument never works it works for the people who argue them and buy them, wonder why.
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Braavos36402 Posts
"it works for the people who argue them and buy them"
with that logic you can justify just about anything
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On February 14 2007 23:02 Hot_Bid wrote:
"it works for the people who argue them and buy them"
with that logic you can justify just about anything it obviously is not a justification, just an opportunity to ask why.
I would think it has more content than "This kind of argument never works"
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
I dont really want to write a 10 page paper on why comparing different eras in sports is unjustified. Sportswriters across the country have already done this many times, and if you were so inclined, you could easily find sources for yourself ascelon
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On February 14 2007 23:16 thedeadhaji wrote:
I dont really want to write a 10 page paper on why comparing different eras in sports is unjustified. Sportswriters across the country have already done this many times, and if you were so inclined, you could easily find sources for yourself ascelon well yes i already outlined that comparisons are limited. so i am only disagreeing with the meaningfulness of certain comparisons between different eras, and not others. i think thought experiments that take a contemporary player and puts him in a historical situation are meaningful because they capture the irreducible mechanics of the game in ways that a simple tournament result does not.
i think baseball research is the most mature sports research and there are serious works done on what sort of meaningful comparisons can be made between players or teams of different eras, and there are quite a few good arguments for quite a few comparisons.
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5404 Posts
Regardless of baseball, eras, 10 page papers, arguing, analogies, buying, and getting opportunities to say why... Savior has to consistently dominate more than just this OSL to be considered the best of all time.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
well i would agree, and i think the question of "best of all time" is meaningless to a large degree.
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You cant get the best of all time by dominating a ''sport''/''bw'' for a short time. You have to get the most titles and play at the very top for the longest time possible and that is exactly what NaDa did and still does and what savior does and is probably still going to do for a while. If savior plays like this 2 or even more years and gets like 2 or even 3 more osl titels and some other titles he can be called best gamer of all time.
For me the phrase 'best gamer of all time' has to be very objective. So i basicaly would call it ''the player who won the most tournaments and stayed near or at the very top of his sports for the longest time''. The first part is pretty easily to determine.. the 2nd is a bit vague.. and not so objective..
but savior has A LOT of still to do in order to get the best bw player of all time. EVen NaDa who is the MOST SUCCESSFULL of all time isnt clearly the best of all time, because Boxers still too much hof a legend..
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I think the final is gonna be decided by destiny. Things like maps and skill will take no part in it.
After reading the thread about Savior going for the MSL/OSL slam, it seems as though Savior was destined to win it all, fighting against all odds and fighting against the maps.
In the other corner, you have Nada, who shattered the hearts of Protoss fans everywhere by breaking the legend of the fall, then coming back next season and spitting at the OSL curse right in the face.
No matter how much analysis we do, we cannot predict what fate has in store for these two gamers.
PS: Iris better not win
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Excellent post, Purind. Best post in this thread, and it reflects the same feelings I have about this OSL.
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That picture of Casy is just TOO funny hahahahahaha
Lim Yo Han spirit hahaha Whoever drew that is my new idol :D
I will be cheering for NaDa though, as he is my favorite player ^^
Gogogooggo Lee Y Y!!!!!!!!
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On February 15 2007 12:21 Sacajawea wrote:
Excellent post, Purind. Best post in this thread, and it reflects the same feelings I have about this OSL.
No, *insert random flame*
best post in the thread was definitely the first one.
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EPT
