Having already conquered the metagame of two mirror matchups in Ribbon's No Spire ZvZ tour and Ribbon's 1 Factory TvT Tour we now put our focus on deconstructing PvP with a fun spin. After removing one of the most retarded units in BroodWar in this round of Ribbon's tours, no one will be able to call another Protoss girly.
That's right, no distance shooting or impossible Tempest possible here folks. We've taken out the stapled opening of a matchup with unchanged variance for the better portion of BW's life. Doing so, we're positive that not only will the gameplay change, but that the games will be better as a direct result.
* No Dragoons * Invite Only * 8 Players * Single Elimination * Best of 5 Rounds * Best of 7 Finals
All games will be played Sunday, December 2nd starting at 19CET on Fish server in Op Ribbon. The cast will begin the same day of the following week, Sunday, December 9th beginning at 17CET on Hacklebeast's stream.
Round of 8: New Ground Zero, Neo Chain Reaction, New Sniper Ridge, Neo Jade, and Neo Outlier Semi-Finals: Neo Outlier, Destination, Icarus, Neo Jade, and New Sniper Ridge Third and Fourth: New Sniper Ridge, Neo Chain Reaction, New Ground Zero, Neo Outlier, and Destination Finals: Destination, Neo Outlier, Neo Jade, New Ground Zero, Neo Chain Reaction, New Sniper Ridge, and Neo Outlier
The first invites to respond were admitted to the bracket, while the rest will be on the reserve list. Do not be discouraged, in every tournament a reserve player is used.
The Bracket SJ.Jumper <Best of 5> SJ.dOTY Yan <Best of 5> SJ.Mazur LancerX <Best of 5> sas.LocDog reps)Defi <Best of 5> Fox.WandS
* All Players are subject to administrative discretion.
* Do not build any dragoons.
* All replays must be sent to RibbonsMirror@gmail.com immediately after the completion of a round. The winner must send in both wins and losses. Failure to do so will result in replacement.
* All games must be played on Fish Server using Mini-Launcher or ChaosLauncher.
* No Korean IP addresses.
* WalkOvers for entire sets will be based on a 7 minute timer. For a best of 3, 21 minutes. Best of 5, 35 minutes, etc. Since this wasn't clear last tournament, if a player pauses or goes afk, you cannot unpause or expect a walkover for 7 minutes.
* This is a one day tournament. The only match that will even be considered for postponement will be the finals.
The more I think about it the cooler this restriction is.
Why can't you normally get more than 2 reavers? Because normal people don't have the micro to keep them safe from goons.
Why can't you normally go pure zealot/archon? Because the goons will pick off too many of them before they get in range.
Why do we never see a stargate? Because goons brutally counter anything that it could make.
Literally every unit you can make as protoss gets significantly stronger because of no goons (except for DTs being about the same, maybe only a little better, and corsairs are the same i.e. totally useless)
On November 22 2012 13:39 hacklebeast wrote: The more I think about it the cooler this restriction is.
Why can't you normally get more than 2 reavers? Because normal people don't have the micro to keep them safe from goons.
Why can't you normally go pure zealot/archon? Because the goons will pick off too many of them before they get in range.
Why do we never see a stargate? Because goons brutally counter anything that it could make.
Literally every unit you can make as protoss gets significantly stronger because of no goons (except for DTs being about the same, maybe only a little better, and corsairs are the same i.e. totally useless)
its going to be a lot of PvZ style openings because there are no goons so you can FE really easily. The follow up gonna be 3robo reavers into some long camping and then carriers... at least thats how i see pvp without goons
On November 22 2012 14:23 dRaW wrote: its going to be a lot of PvZ style openings because there are no goons so you can FE really easily. The follow up gonna be 3robo reavers into some long camping and then carriers... at least thats how i see pvp without goons
Feel like their health allows zealots to runby not sure tho
On November 22 2012 14:23 dRaW wrote: its going to be a lot of PvZ style openings because there are no goons so you can FE really easily. The follow up gonna be 3robo reavers into some long camping and then carriers... at least thats how i see pvp without goons
I think somebody should test it out because I'm pretty sure its a lot harder to keep zealots out of your base since they have a lot more health.
Soo assuming Ps figure out that they can just FFE will people just start 12 nexing without cannons and just overwhelm the opponent with zealots if they try to attack (Because of the opponents big investment into cannons).
Assuming that blocking a 2 gate with probes and 2 cannons is enough it would turn into a
12 nex<2 gate<FFE<12nex kind of metagame-ish thing. And Reaver builds fit somewhere in there, but the question is how exactly do you counter Shuttle reaver (Corsair* xD?) Are people just gonna Bisu build?
The zealots will simply overwhelm 1 gate tech builds as there aren't any dragoons to micro, and 1 gate reaver or even SCOUTS (mother fucking yes SCOUTS) builds will probably straight up rape any FFE attempts. Finally, FFE with good cannon placement should be able to stop any double-gate zealot rushes and eventually get ahead in both economy and tech.
On November 22 2012 18:18 EngrishTeacher wrote: The zealots will simply overwhelm 1 gate tech builds as there aren't any dragoons to micro, and 1 gate reaver or even SCOUTS (mother fucking yes SCOUTS) builds will probably straight up rape any FFE attempts. Finally, FFE with good cannon placement should be able to stop any double-gate zealot rushes and eventually get ahead in both economy and tech.
If there's a scout in your base, build a forge and a cannon. In the time that takes, the scout will kill upwards of three probes. They have no great DPS.
One solitary scout just on the map will be a bitch to deal with, though. They can take 3 storms, with no dodging, and archons will be hard to use against them (Scouts take 9 hits from an archon to die, presuming Archons do explosive). They have terrible DPS, but they're going to be so hard to kill.
The zealots will simply overwhelm 1 gate tech builds as there aren't any dragoons to micro, and 1 gate reaver or even SCOUTS (mother fucking yes SCOUTS) builds will probably straight up rape any FFE attempts. Finally, FFE with good cannon placement should be able to stop any double-gate zealot rushes and eventually get ahead in both economy and tech.
build: see PvZ make sufficient cannons +simcity >> any 1 base build go 3robos -> speed shuttle ninja expands -> cannons everywhere Shuttle drops snipe main bases camp till 4-5base -> carrier and arbiter + DAs (feedback/mind control/etc)
I dont see why anyone would make 2gate zealot openings when they cant do anything against cannons and the whole reason you dont simcity pvp is because goons will just kill it...
On November 22 2012 10:27 quirinus wrote: Lol, we might get to see scouts used now! :D
[10/5/2012 12:23:48 AM] Defi: even fast scouts are ok xD
Hah, some people know that scouts are op!
On November 22 2012 12:12 TheSpectruM wrote: scouts to counter shuttle reaver?
That, but most importantly, imagine mutas, but stronger, faster and with no mobile ground counter (marines). GG probes
On November 23 2012 07:17 dRaW wrote: build: see PvZ make sufficient cannons +simcity >> any 1 base build go 3robos -> speed shuttle ninja expands -> cannons everywhere Shuttle drops snipe main bases camp till 4-5base -> carrier and arbiter + DAs (feedback/mind control/etc)
I dont see why anyone would make 2gate zealot openings when they cant do anything against cannons and the whole reason you dont simcity pvp is because goons will just kill it...
No carriers, scouts just RAPE carriers. Scouts counter shuttles and everything air, and if your opponent goes fe and you go 1g stargate you can just harass them like crazy with scouts.
Instead of sair reaver go scout reaver? xD Don't feel like FFE would work I think 2 gate zealots the zealots could just run by the cannons...would have to test it out first tho...
The zealots will simply overwhelm 1 gate tech builds as there aren't any dragoons to micro, and 1 gate reaver or even SCOUTS (mother fucking yes SCOUTS) builds will probably straight up rape any FFE attempts. Finally, FFE with good cannon placement should be able to stop any double-gate zealot rushes and eventually get ahead in both economy and tech.
build: see PvZ make sufficient cannons +simcity >> any 1 base build go 3robos -> speed shuttle ninja expands -> cannons everywhere Shuttle drops snipe main bases camp till 4-5base -> carrier and arbiter + DAs (feedback/mind control/etc)
I dont see why anyone would make 2gate zealot openings when they cant do anything against cannons and the whole reason you dont simcity pvp is because goons will just kill it...
I don't know about you man, but at C+/B- iccup 1 base reavers will straight up rape any FE attempts given relatively efficient play and equal skill levels. I heard scarabs are pretty good against static defense yo, and last time I checked that includes cannons
Without goons, shuttle/reaver becomes even more OP as there aren't any moving anti-air to deal with it. the 1-basing player will get out reavers so much faster than the FE player, and either pop so many probes or just straight-up bust the natural before you can get out a cosair or your own reavers.
Basically use zealots until you tech to shuttle reaver to own ground forces...from there scouts are ultimate anti air here...scout reaver wutchu gonna do...
The idea of making a shuttle is easily countered by sairs. They're fast, effective, and having a support unit for shuttles takes too long to counter defensive sairs. Unless it's a 4 dt drop (sup LocDog), I doubt shuttles are going to be very effective in this tour in matches where one player decides to make 4+ defensive sairs a game.
You're the hero BW needs, though you're not the one it deserves.
what?
You don't know Batman (hint: replace BW with Gotham City)?^^
@Ribbon Would be nice if you made one public tour like this. Would really love it. You could make it 2 stages. First open bracket until Ro16 and from there like this tournament (closed "semi-invite" Tournament). I would love it
Could also make it semi open and semi invite. 16 invites and 16 open bracket players, so you get a Ro32 or something.
On November 24 2012 01:13 Toasterbaked wrote: Forge expand and corsair/reaver on double robos?
Corsairs rape scouts..
I'm thinking double robo instead of stargate since corsairs are a pretty bad investment early and can't shoot reavers. Also shuttle speed allows for safe harass.
On November 24 2012 01:13 Toasterbaked wrote: Forge expand and corsair/reaver on double robos?
Corsairs rape scouts..
Depends on the numbers involve. A scout beats a sair 1-on-1, as it has a lot more health/shields and out DPSes a sair even accounting for corsairs having faster attacks an a favorable size. Sairs beat scouts in larger numbers due to splash, but there's really not need to stack scouts in the first place, since the only anti-air you have besides your own scouts (corsairs, archons, and storm) is splash damage
And even if you win the air war with corsairs (they are cheaper!), now you're stuck with useless corsairs. Scouts at least shoot down.
On November 24 2012 01:13 Toasterbaked wrote: Forge expand and corsair/reaver on double robos?
Corsairs rape scouts..
Depends on the numbers involve. A scout beats a sair 1-on-1, as it has a lot more health/shields and out DPSes a sair even accounting for corsairs having faster attacks an a favorable size. Sairs beat scouts in larger numbers due to splash, but there's really not need to stack scouts in the first place, since the only anti-air you have besides your own scouts (corsairs, archons, and storm) is splash damage
And even if you win the air war with corsairs (they are cheaper!), now you're stuck with useless corsairs. Scouts at least shoot down.
On November 24 2012 01:13 Toasterbaked wrote: Forge expand and corsair/reaver on double robos?
Corsairs rape scouts..
Depends on the numbers involve. A scout beats a sair 1-on-1, as it has a lot more health/shields and out DPSes a sair even accounting for corsairs having faster attacks an a favorable size. Sairs beat scouts in larger numbers due to splash, but there's really not need to stack scouts in the first place, since the only anti-air you have besides your own scouts (corsairs, archons, and storm) is splash damage
And even if you win the air war with corsairs (they are cheaper!), now you're stuck with useless corsairs. Scouts at least shoot down.
You could dweb, but I agree that scouts > cors.
Lol play the gamr a bit. Just a bit and I'm sure you'll find out the correct answer.
On November 22 2012 13:39 hacklebeast wrote: The more I think about it the cooler this restriction is.
Why can't you normally get more than 2 reavers? Because normal people don't have the micro to keep them safe from goons.
Why can't you normally go pure zealot/archon? Because the goons will pick off too many of them before they get in range.
Why do we never see a stargate? Because goons brutally counter anything that it could make.
Literally every unit you can make as protoss gets significantly stronger because of no goons (except for DTs being about the same, maybe only a little better, and corsairs are the same i.e. totally useless)
Corsairs will be one of the most important unit!!!
On November 22 2012 13:39 hacklebeast wrote: The more I think about it the cooler this restriction is.
Why can't you normally get more than 2 reavers? Because normal people don't have the micro to keep them safe from goons.
Why can't you normally go pure zealot/archon? Because the goons will pick off too many of them before they get in range.
Why do we never see a stargate? Because goons brutally counter anything that it could make.
Literally every unit you can make as protoss gets significantly stronger because of no goons (except for DTs being about the same, maybe only a little better, and corsairs are the same i.e. totally useless)
Corsairs will be one of the most important unit!!!
You're drunk! xD What corsairs lol... SCOUTS. Scouts will be epic. How can you defend against a reaver with corsairs? Do you attack it with zealots or probes? rofl both are sooooo efficient against it. ;P (yea you could attack it with a reaver, but that hardly seems a wise idea) Also, what will you do with corsairs when there's no shuttles around? (at the beginning)
I've made a few wicked builds by theorycrafting, have to test them out, but they should work. Can't wait to see if anyone comes up with anything similar. :D
On November 22 2012 13:39 hacklebeast wrote: The more I think about it the cooler this restriction is.
Why can't you normally get more than 2 reavers? Because normal people don't have the micro to keep them safe from goons.
Why can't you normally go pure zealot/archon? Because the goons will pick off too many of them before they get in range.
Why do we never see a stargate? Because goons brutally counter anything that it could make.
Literally every unit you can make as protoss gets significantly stronger because of no goons (except for DTs being about the same, maybe only a little better, and corsairs are the same i.e. totally useless)
Corsairs will be one of the most important unit!!!
You're drunk! xD What corsairs lol... SCOUTS. Scouts will be epic. How can you defend against a reaver with corsairs? Do you attack it with zealots or probes? rofl both are sooooo efficient against it. ;P (yea you could attack it with a reaver, but that hardly seems a wise idea) Also, what will you do with corsairs when there's no shuttles around? (at the beginning)
I've made a few wicked builds by theorycrafting, have to test them out, but they should work. Can't wait to see if anyone comes up with anything similar. :D
you have teorycrafted... well i played a few games with wands :p corsairs > scauts sorry quir buahahahah
Do you have a million sairs? Good... Now, my son, you will go carriers because you can.
Who knew not building goons would be this good?
Edit: Hey, you know what you can do with a million sair? DWeb. The whole map. Or a battery of cannons. Or you could not be mainstream and not dweb. And this game badly needs arbiters now.
Edit2: I can't believe he lost that game. He had it won and with heroic effort he managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory ~_~.
On December 10 2012 02:24 Kittan wrote: Do you have a million sairs? Good... Now, my son, you will go carriers because you can.
Who knew not building goons would be this good?
Edit: Hey, you know what you can do with a million sair? DWeb. The whole map. Or a battery of cannons. Or you could not be mainstream and not dweb. And this game badly needs arbiters now.
He's just sitting on 40 Dwebs and some carriers trying to figure out how to deal with six cannons
Edit: And he loses the game never quite figuring it out :|
Edit: I call shenanigans. Not only were the gates not placed behind the minerals, one of the gates was cancelled. Pah! Edit2: Yan vs WandS g3... man, are you serious? HAHAHAHAHA Wow big decisions and 'big' plays :D Edit3: Hot cannon on cannon action! Book your tickets now but remember to bring an ID along.
Just out of curiosity. Is this the last Ribbon tour or are we going to see different variations of mirror match ups or are we going to see a specific match up (With each player playing a different race each set to avoid PvT-TvP-PvT etc)?
Although it's a lot harder to think of restrictions for both races and still make it interesting.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w421/vegason123/ribbonmirrortours.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w421/vegason123/nodragoon_header.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w421/vegason123/nodragoon_format.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w421/vegason123/nodragoon_invites.jpg)
SJ.dOTY
LRM)Semih
LRM)DragOn
sas.LocDog
SJ.Mazur
LancerX![[image loading]](http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w421/vegason123/nodragoon_prize.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w421/vegason123/nodragoon_rules.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w421/vegason123/nodraggon_results.jpg)
GL to all!
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