EPTOn July 16 2011 13:19 night terrors wrote:
Watch this go 3-3 and Zero take the ace.
Watch this go 3-3 and Zero take the ace.
[SPL] PO,KT Rolster vs Woongjin Stars Day 1 - Page 81
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night terrors
China1284 Posts
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xXFireandIceXx
Canada4296 Posts
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Winechu
Singapore1186 Posts
On July 17 2011 01:24 mishimaBeef wrote: anyone know where i can watch flash vs zero? Check the Small VOD thread, they're already uploaded. Flash vs. Zero was so sick, I was thoroughly entertained even though Flash lost. Kudos to Zero who prepared such a great strategy and executed it so well. Stats vs. Hon_Sin Free vs. Action Flash vs. Soulkey were decent and fun games to watch too. Overall a great series. KT came close, hope they can put up a better series tomorrow and win! | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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maximuspita
1093 Posts
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almond
115 Posts
On July 17 2011 01:44 Xiphos wrote: Flash vs ZerO was meh for me....it was just a BO win for ZerO (I might be biased here because I open up my ZvT 70% of the time using Lurkers) and Terran just didn't know what to do! But this is what am I talking about with ZvT, open 50% with Lurkers and the other 50% with Mutalisks to switch gameplays in order the Terran on their feet. Flash took it for granted thinking that ZerO would go Mutas. Throughout the game, never for one second I thought ZerO is in trouble. Even if there wasn't a stop Lurkers, Flash still wouldn't have breached into ZerO's natural with 2 Sunkens + 6 Lurkers. Ok first of all the 4 rax +1 build does not lose to 3 hatch lurker. Second, the lack of turrets would suggest that Flash knew that Zero was opening lurkers. Lastly, you have to keep in mind that Zero had no 3rd. It was pretty much an all in strat with all the gas he spent on speed and drop. If it hadn't been for the stop lurkers, Flash would pretty much have free reign over the centre of the map. Zero took a gamble with stop lurkers, and it paid off. No doubt the game would have been a lot different otherwise. When was the last time you've seen tier 2 speed ovie drops in zvt? Zero pulled it off and it was a great game. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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almond
115 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On July 17 2011 02:08 koreasilver wrote: 5rax < lurker opening, this isn't all too hard to understand. That's a really inaccurate statement. It is not an autowin in any way, and definitely not vs someone with as good anti-lurker micro with MnM as Flash has. | ||
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DMXD
United States4064 Posts
Plus I seen flash's 4/5 rax destroy lurker openings before. | ||
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xarthaz
1704 Posts
On July 16 2011 16:34 tomatriedes wrote: Every other map in proleague is statistically terran-favored at the moment. I can't believe people are whining because one single map is favoring zerg. Agreed. And even Icarus is 47%-48% for Terran, so hardly a battle royale. It is pure heroism that zergs are doing that they are doing in the face of these tough maps, Zero being the best of them. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On July 17 2011 02:15 Holgerius wrote: That's a really inaccurate statement. It is not an autowin in any way, and definitely not vs someone with as good anti-lurker micro with MnM as Flash has. It's obviously not auto-win, but it really isn't that hard to see that 3rax and 4rax fare better against lurker openings. The +1 5rax builds are designed specifically for muta openings. Anyone who's watched BW for the past two years knows that Flash has chewed up lurker openings like they're nothing, yeah, but just about everyone should also agree that opening 5rax is about the worst case scenario against a lurker opening (barring valk openings). There is a large difference between 4rax and 5rax openings; they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath, really. | ||
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pylonsalad
Canada649 Posts
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almond
115 Posts
On July 17 2011 02:34 koreasilver wrote: It's obviously not auto-win, but it really isn't that hard to see that 3rax and 4rax fare better against lurker openings. The +1 5rax builds are designed specifically for muta openings. Anyone who's watched BW for the past two years knows that Flash has chewed up lurker openings like they're nothing, yeah, but just about everyone should also agree that opening 5rax is about the worst case scenario against a lurker opening (barring valk openings). There is a large difference between 4rax and 5rax openings; they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath, really. Who's saying otherwise? One guy says it's BO loss. I said no, it's not BO loss. You come in and say lurker>5 rax. Why is that relevant if you don't mean it as BO loss? Who doesn't know earlier tech is better vs lurkers? I cant tell whether he made factory before or after lifting and starting nat rax production. If he stopped to make factory it's closer to a 4rax build for all purposes. Regardless, my point stands. | ||
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Hero.SP
Chile711 Posts
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On July 16 2011 15:51 Fionn wrote: Remember when Action was supposed to be KT's zerg powerhouse when he came over?  Remember when ForGG ? Remember Luxury ? | ||
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mmdmmd
722 Posts
On July 17 2011 02:05 almond wrote: Ok first of all the 4 rax +1 build does not lose to 3 hatch lurker. Second, the lack of turrets would suggest that Flash knew that Zero was opening lurkers. Lastly, you have to keep in mind that Zero had no 3rd. It was pretty much an all in strat with all the gas he spent on speed and drop. If it hadn't been for the stop lurkers, Flash would pretty much have free reign over the centre of the map. Zero took a gamble with stop lurkers, and it paid off. No doubt the game would have been a lot different otherwise. When was the last time you've seen tier 2 speed ovie drops in zvt? Zero pulled it off and it was a great game. The way I see this game is, Zero won because he was able to denied the scouting. This is the single most important event in this game. So to me this is more of a BO win than "3 Hatch lurk vs 5rax". As soon as the first batch of lurkers morphed, the caster immediately predicted that it will be a drop by counting the lurker number(six). If the caster can tell, so can Flash. But he simply does not have enough information. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On July 17 2011 02:42 pylonsalad wrote: 5 rax build does not lose to lurker openings if T can contain the Z on 2 bases. Flash's mistake was simply approaching too close to Zero's choke and getting caught by hold lurkers. If he simply sat back and held a soft-contain, Zero would find it hard to secure a 3rd. It wasn't a BO win. Zero won through tactics and Flash not being his usual perfect-starsense self. That area he put his marines basically was where you would position your marines if you were going to hold a soft contain because if you go further back then you create a leak. Zero didn't win just because of the openings, since Flash is one of those players that can close the gap from a deficit moreso than any other player, but Zero did have an advantageous opening. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On July 17 2011 02:34 koreasilver wrote: It's obviously not auto-win, but it really isn't that hard to see that 3rax and 4rax fare better against lurker openings. The +1 5rax builds are designed specifically for muta openings. Anyone who's watched BW for the past two years knows that Flash has chewed up lurker openings like they're nothing, yeah, but just about everyone should also agree that opening 5rax is about the worst case scenario against a lurker opening (barring valk openings). There is a large difference between 4rax and 5rax openings; they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath, really. Seeing that Flash has actually beaten lurker openings with valk openings it's not a stretch to say he could most definitely beat it with 5 Rax.  I don't think Flash would allow a Zerg to move out of his base at all in most games with these openings. The lings + the stop lurkers fucked that all up though in this game. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On July 17 2011 03:02 mmdmmd wrote: The way I see this game is, Zero won because he was able to denied the scouting. This is the single most important event in this game. So to me this is more of a BO win than "3 Hatch lurk vs 5rax". As soon as the first batch of lurkers morphed, the caster immediately predicted that it will be a drop by counting the lurker number(six). If the caster can tell, so can Flash. But he simply does not have enough information. The thing that bothered me the most if when flash's Scan went online, the Ob didn't show where the scan landed. Was it scaned at natural and main? Natural + third hatchery? Third hatchery + the main? Its important to know whether flash saw the hydra den or not. | ||
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