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Russian Federation905 Posts
On June 23 2011 17:02 lutarez wrote:
Nice predictions.
Say what you will about him, but GGnore is the boss. lol
Also lets keep it fun and respectful guys.
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On June 23 2011 16:31 Sovetsky Soyuz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 16:17 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 23 2011 09:54 KMJ wrote:On June 23 2011 09:50 red4ce wrote:On June 23 2011 07:56 tube wrote:
jaedong is why i don't consider flash bonjwa Tough luck. 2010 happened. You can't un-become a bonjwa from struggling after your period of dominance, otherwise there wouldn't be any bonjwas. There could only be one bonjwa - Savior. You know what bonjwa means right? To be bonjwa means there is totally no dispute. Flash had a good year. Not bonjwa. Jaedong was there with him all the way. EDIT: Oh yes! Great work with the thread GGnore "Flash had a good year." Is probably the single greatest understatement in broodwar history. It's like saying Oov was okay vs zerg and Nada was alright at winning titles. On June 23 2011 15:20 qrs wrote:On June 22 2011 21:01 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 22 2011 21:00 Kyuki wrote:On June 22 2011 20:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Absolutely the worst game I've ever seen flash play, skillwise. You could argue that for most matches that Flash wins his opponent plays the worst game of his life. That's what happens when you get dominated, you get offsync. Considering how this game went, I think Flash actually did a really good job. Flash doesn't play worse because he's playing Jaedong, Flash literally just played completely lost that entire game and it was pathetic to watch. If you told me Skyhigh was playing that game I would not have blinked because that's the exact quality of output he had. Flash did an atrocious job and was so far below his skill level that I'm embarrassed. In his interview, Jaedong said:
First of all, Flash played a tremendous game. We seem to have a difference of opinion on our hands. Progamers commend their opponents in spite of the way they play, news at 11? Flash himself said he wasn't playing as good as usual (in as much as you want to believe him about his wrist problems), but I guess Jaedong knows more than Flash about Flash. On June 23 2011 15:31 Sovetsky Soyuz wrote:On June 23 2011 15:20 qrs wrote:On June 22 2011 21:01 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 22 2011 21:00 Kyuki wrote:On June 22 2011 20:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Absolutely the worst game I've ever seen flash play, skillwise. You could argue that for most matches that Flash wins his opponent plays the worst game of his life. That's what happens when you get dominated, you get offsync. Considering how this game went, I think Flash actually did a really good job. Flash doesn't play worse because he's playing Jaedong, Flash literally just played completely lost that entire game and it was pathetic to watch. If you told me Skyhigh was playing that game I would not have blinked because that's the exact quality of output he had. Flash did an atrocious job and was so far below his skill level that I'm embarrassed. In his interview, Jaedong said:
First of all, Flash played a tremendous game. We seem to have a difference of opinion on our hands. Between a progamer and an keyboard warrior fanboy, you know who to believe Most of your posts are insulting, rude, or lacking in content. I'm asking you to have some respect for others before it becomes a consistent problem. Your irrational fanboyism is the consistent problem. Why can't you just accept the truth. In retrospect you can say Flash dominated. But as it happened, JD and Flash were equals in every one of those Finals. Check out the LR threads and point out non JD or Flash fans who seriously believe it was going to be a one-sided domination. Facts. And please drop the attitude. You're not running a kindergarten here. You don't have to be aggressive if someone tells the truth that is contrary to your fanboy opinion.
It doesn't matter whether or not people thought it'd be close or one sided. What matters is that Flash won three straight finals against Jaedong, was unquestionably the best player on the planet for a significant period of time, and only the most ridiculous of fanboys would have disputed it.
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On June 23 2011 11:49 KMJ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 11:34 Release wrote:On June 23 2011 10:23 tube wrote:
no im just saying when someone is still standing toe-to-toe with you at the top, you're not a bonjwa Flash made 6 finals. JD made 4. Flash won 4 titles. JD won 1. Flash's team won WL and PL finals. JD's team did not. Flash got most wins in PL. JD did not. It's impossible to say anyone at any time has ever been toe to toe with Flash's 2010 record. It's so great to see JD and Flash going to a potential JvF final again. Or, if you are objective about it, you can look at it this way. Jaedong and Flash met at all the significant SLs in the last couple years. Flash victories all came at JD's slump, yet JD managed to stay right on top with him. JD has the winningest record in BW. Most importantly, in terms of Bonjwa, if one is not alone up there or if there is even the slightest doubt or reservation about one's claim to Bonjwa, he is not Bonjwa. Ma Bonjwa was. During his reign people can honestly say no one can defeat him (although he lost a few games here and there of course - that's the thing, reputation!) JD always has a good chance of beating him. Flash may have won many titles, but JD was like that 2008-2009 also. TLDR: Flash = Not bonjwa.
...So basically, if Jaedong's not in it, it isn't a significant final in your eyes, and when Jaedong makes it to a final and doesn't win, he's slumping. Good to know you're being objective about it.
P.S. Jaedong's being playing for almost exactly a year longer than Flash, and only has 30 more wins. He's also two years older.
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On June 23 2011 17:14 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 16:31 Sovetsky Soyuz wrote:On June 23 2011 16:17 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 23 2011 09:54 KMJ wrote:On June 23 2011 09:50 red4ce wrote:On June 23 2011 07:56 tube wrote:
jaedong is why i don't consider flash bonjwa Tough luck. 2010 happened. You can't un-become a bonjwa from struggling after your period of dominance, otherwise there wouldn't be any bonjwas. There could only be one bonjwa - Savior. You know what bonjwa means right? To be bonjwa means there is totally no dispute. Flash had a good year. Not bonjwa. Jaedong was there with him all the way. EDIT: Oh yes! Great work with the thread GGnore "Flash had a good year." Is probably the single greatest understatement in broodwar history. It's like saying Oov was okay vs zerg and Nada was alright at winning titles. On June 23 2011 15:20 qrs wrote:On June 22 2011 21:01 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 22 2011 21:00 Kyuki wrote:On June 22 2011 20:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Absolutely the worst game I've ever seen flash play, skillwise. You could argue that for most matches that Flash wins his opponent plays the worst game of his life. That's what happens when you get dominated, you get offsync. Considering how this game went, I think Flash actually did a really good job. Flash doesn't play worse because he's playing Jaedong, Flash literally just played completely lost that entire game and it was pathetic to watch. If you told me Skyhigh was playing that game I would not have blinked because that's the exact quality of output he had. Flash did an atrocious job and was so far below his skill level that I'm embarrassed. In his interview, Jaedong said:
First of all, Flash played a tremendous game. We seem to have a difference of opinion on our hands. Progamers commend their opponents in spite of the way they play, news at 11? Flash himself said he wasn't playing as good as usual (in as much as you want to believe him about his wrist problems), but I guess Jaedong knows more than Flash about Flash. On June 23 2011 15:31 Sovetsky Soyuz wrote:On June 23 2011 15:20 qrs wrote:On June 22 2011 21:01 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 22 2011 21:00 Kyuki wrote:On June 22 2011 20:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Absolutely the worst game I've ever seen flash play, skillwise. You could argue that for most matches that Flash wins his opponent plays the worst game of his life. That's what happens when you get dominated, you get offsync. Considering how this game went, I think Flash actually did a really good job. Flash doesn't play worse because he's playing Jaedong, Flash literally just played completely lost that entire game and it was pathetic to watch. If you told me Skyhigh was playing that game I would not have blinked because that's the exact quality of output he had. Flash did an atrocious job and was so far below his skill level that I'm embarrassed. In his interview, Jaedong said:
First of all, Flash played a tremendous game. We seem to have a difference of opinion on our hands. Between a progamer and an keyboard warrior fanboy, you know who to believe Most of your posts are insulting, rude, or lacking in content. I'm asking you to have some respect for others before it becomes a consistent problem. Your irrational fanboyism is the consistent problem. Why can't you just accept the truth. In retrospect you can say Flash dominated. But as it happened, JD and Flash were equals in every one of those Finals. Check out the LR threads and point out non JD or Flash fans who seriously believe it was going to be a one-sided domination. Facts. And please drop the attitude. You're not running a kindergarten here. You don't have to be aggressive if someone tells the truth that is contrary to your fanboy opinion. It doesn't matter whether or not people thought it'd be close or one sided. What matters is that Flash won three straight finals against Jaedong, was unquestionably the best player on the planet for a significant period of time, and only the most ridiculous of fanboys would have disputed it.
The context of the argument here is about being bonjwa. You may dominate but the fact of the matter is, as I and DarkMatter said earlier, Flash did not have that aura of invincibility (the true definition of bonjwa) in all the past Finals. All those times Everyone but the most rabid fanboys believe that it was never going to be onesided, for Flash or Jaedong.
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On June 23 2011 16:31 Sovetsky Soyuz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 16:17 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 23 2011 09:54 KMJ wrote:On June 23 2011 09:50 red4ce wrote:On June 23 2011 07:56 tube wrote:
jaedong is why i don't consider flash bonjwa Tough luck. 2010 happened. You can't un-become a bonjwa from struggling after your period of dominance, otherwise there wouldn't be any bonjwas. There could only be one bonjwa - Savior. You know what bonjwa means right? To be bonjwa means there is totally no dispute. Flash had a good year. Not bonjwa. Jaedong was there with him all the way. EDIT: Oh yes! Great work with the thread GGnore "Flash had a good year." Is probably the single greatest understatement in broodwar history. It's like saying Oov was okay vs zerg and Nada was alright at winning titles. On June 23 2011 15:20 qrs wrote:On June 22 2011 21:01 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 22 2011 21:00 Kyuki wrote:On June 22 2011 20:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Absolutely the worst game I've ever seen flash play, skillwise. You could argue that for most matches that Flash wins his opponent plays the worst game of his life. That's what happens when you get dominated, you get offsync. Considering how this game went, I think Flash actually did a really good job. Flash doesn't play worse because he's playing Jaedong, Flash literally just played completely lost that entire game and it was pathetic to watch. If you told me Skyhigh was playing that game I would not have blinked because that's the exact quality of output he had. Flash did an atrocious job and was so far below his skill level that I'm embarrassed. In his interview, Jaedong said:
First of all, Flash played a tremendous game. We seem to have a difference of opinion on our hands. Progamers commend their opponents in spite of the way they play, news at 11? Flash himself said he wasn't playing as good as usual (in as much as you want to believe him about his wrist problems), but I guess Jaedong knows more than Flash about Flash. On June 23 2011 15:31 Sovetsky Soyuz wrote:On June 23 2011 15:20 qrs wrote:On June 22 2011 21:01 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 22 2011 21:00 Kyuki wrote:On June 22 2011 20:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Absolutely the worst game I've ever seen flash play, skillwise. You could argue that for most matches that Flash wins his opponent plays the worst game of his life. That's what happens when you get dominated, you get offsync. Considering how this game went, I think Flash actually did a really good job. Flash doesn't play worse because he's playing Jaedong, Flash literally just played completely lost that entire game and it was pathetic to watch. If you told me Skyhigh was playing that game I would not have blinked because that's the exact quality of output he had. Flash did an atrocious job and was so far below his skill level that I'm embarrassed. In his interview, Jaedong said:
First of all, Flash played a tremendous game. We seem to have a difference of opinion on our hands. Between a progamer and an keyboard warrior fanboy, you know who to believe Most of your posts are insulting, rude, or lacking in content. I'm asking you to have some respect for others before it becomes a consistent problem. Your irrational fanboyism is the consistent problem. Why can't you just accept the truth. In retrospect you can say Flash dominated. But as it happened, JD and Flash were equals in every one of those Finals. Check out the LR threads and point out non JD or Flash fans who seriously believe it was going to be a one-sided domination. Facts. And please drop the attitude. You're not running a kindergarten here. You don't have to be aggressive if someone tells the truth that is contrary to your fanboy opinion.
You insult me constantly and I've never been so much as a bit rude to you. All I'm asking is for some common respect instead of mindless insults.
No one predicted Flash would dominate Jaedong last year, but it did happen and it's why everyone and their mothers were calling him Bonjwa afterwards. If they were equal then Flash wouldn't have won 3 straight, I'm sorry. But it wasn't just a "good" year, it was the best year of any broodwar player ever, and that's why people so much as dared to give him such a controversial namesake. I can't believe we're arguing this to this day, Savior, Oov, Nada and Boxer are no less the kings that they were because they eventually got worse.
On June 23 2011 17:23 KMJ wrote:
The context of the argument here is about being bonjwa. You may dominate but the fact of the matter is, as I and DarkMatter said earlier, Flash did not have that aura of invincibility (the true definition of bonjwa) in all the past Finals. All those times Everyone but the most rabid fanboys believe that it was never going to be onesided, for Flash or Jaedong.
I'm just wondering if you were even around here when Flash was going on his run last year. There were constant threads about how invincible Flash was, and the exact reason people gave Flash the nod over Jaedong for the silly bonjwa title was entirely because of the aura of invincibility he had. You can't just say "Well I never thought he was a bonjwa" the second he falls on hard times (Hard times being winning an MSL I guess). I understand a Jaedong fan wouldn't have the same mindset as most because they'd think Jaedong was gonna win every one of those, so maybe the aura of domination thing didn't apply to you, but it certainly did to the community at large.
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On June 23 2011 17:23 KMJ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 17:14 GolemMadness wrote:On June 23 2011 16:31 Sovetsky Soyuz wrote:On June 23 2011 16:17 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 23 2011 09:54 KMJ wrote:On June 23 2011 09:50 red4ce wrote:On June 23 2011 07:56 tube wrote:
jaedong is why i don't consider flash bonjwa Tough luck. 2010 happened. You can't un-become a bonjwa from struggling after your period of dominance, otherwise there wouldn't be any bonjwas. There could only be one bonjwa - Savior. You know what bonjwa means right? To be bonjwa means there is totally no dispute. Flash had a good year. Not bonjwa. Jaedong was there with him all the way. EDIT: Oh yes! Great work with the thread GGnore "Flash had a good year." Is probably the single greatest understatement in broodwar history. It's like saying Oov was okay vs zerg and Nada was alright at winning titles. On June 23 2011 15:20 qrs wrote:On June 22 2011 21:01 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 22 2011 21:00 Kyuki wrote:On June 22 2011 20:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Absolutely the worst game I've ever seen flash play, skillwise. You could argue that for most matches that Flash wins his opponent plays the worst game of his life. That's what happens when you get dominated, you get offsync. Considering how this game went, I think Flash actually did a really good job. Flash doesn't play worse because he's playing Jaedong, Flash literally just played completely lost that entire game and it was pathetic to watch. If you told me Skyhigh was playing that game I would not have blinked because that's the exact quality of output he had. Flash did an atrocious job and was so far below his skill level that I'm embarrassed. In his interview, Jaedong said:
First of all, Flash played a tremendous game. We seem to have a difference of opinion on our hands. Progamers commend their opponents in spite of the way they play, news at 11? Flash himself said he wasn't playing as good as usual (in as much as you want to believe him about his wrist problems), but I guess Jaedong knows more than Flash about Flash. On June 23 2011 15:31 Sovetsky Soyuz wrote:On June 23 2011 15:20 qrs wrote:On June 22 2011 21:01 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 22 2011 21:00 Kyuki wrote:On June 22 2011 20:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Absolutely the worst game I've ever seen flash play, skillwise. You could argue that for most matches that Flash wins his opponent plays the worst game of his life. That's what happens when you get dominated, you get offsync. Considering how this game went, I think Flash actually did a really good job. Flash doesn't play worse because he's playing Jaedong, Flash literally just played completely lost that entire game and it was pathetic to watch. If you told me Skyhigh was playing that game I would not have blinked because that's the exact quality of output he had. Flash did an atrocious job and was so far below his skill level that I'm embarrassed. In his interview, Jaedong said:
First of all, Flash played a tremendous game. We seem to have a difference of opinion on our hands. Between a progamer and an keyboard warrior fanboy, you know who to believe Most of your posts are insulting, rude, or lacking in content. I'm asking you to have some respect for others before it becomes a consistent problem. Your irrational fanboyism is the consistent problem. Why can't you just accept the truth. In retrospect you can say Flash dominated. But as it happened, JD and Flash were equals in every one of those Finals. Check out the LR threads and point out non JD or Flash fans who seriously believe it was going to be a one-sided domination. Facts. And please drop the attitude. You're not running a kindergarten here. You don't have to be aggressive if someone tells the truth that is contrary to your fanboy opinion. It doesn't matter whether or not people thought it'd be close or one sided. What matters is that Flash won three straight finals against Jaedong, was unquestionably the best player on the planet for a significant period of time, and only the most ridiculous of fanboys would have disputed it. The context of the argument here is about being bonjwa. You may dominate but the fact of the matter is, as I and DarkMatter said earlier, Flash did not have that aura of invincibility (the true definition of bonjwa) in all the past Finals. All those times Everyone but the most rabid fanboys believe that it was never going to be onesided, for Flash or Jaedong.
Did you read the threads? Did you see the non-stop posts about how Brood War was figured out, terran was completely overpowered, Flash was breaking a record every other time he played a game, 3-1 team deficits in winner's league were EXPECTED to be won by Flash, etc? Jaedong has an enormous fan base; why would threads be filled with people saying that he had no chance?
You're being completely ridiculous. You're basing whether or not someone should be considered a bonjwa based on what some people were saying, yet completely ignoring the fact that after Flash beat Jaedong for the third straight final, EVERYONE was declaring him to be bonjwa.
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On June 23 2011 17:22 GolemMadness wrote:
...So basically, if Jaedong's not in it, it isn't a significant final in your eyes, and when Jaedong makes it to a final and doesn't win, he's slumping. Good to know you're being objective about it.
me: Jaedong and Flash met at all the significant SLs in the last couple years.
What part of "and" don't you understand to put words in my mouth. You're blind or you can't read. Moreover, would you consider Great vs Hydra a significant SL? Stork and Fantasy, yes, their both up there.
P.S. Jaedong's being playing for almost exactly a year longer than Flash, and only has 30 more wins. He's also two years older.[/QUOTE]
I said it before. Statistics. Facts. Actual Events. Record.
I'm not speculating about possibilities or conjectures. I'm simply stating the record. And Flash fans seem to have a problem that Jaedong is ahead on that part. Sorry. Facts, plain and simple.
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Lol I thought Flash was like beyond bonjwa... like God or something? No? 
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On June 23 2011 17:32 KMJ wrote:
I said it before. Statistics. Facts. Actual Events. Record.
I'm not speculating about possibilities or conjectures. I'm simply stating the record. And Flash fans seem to have a problem that Jaedong is ahead on that part. Sorry. Facts, plain and simple.
The only record that matters is titles, Flash is ahead!
Narrow minded view points on superiority benefits no one, fucking Casy is ahead against Jaedong in head to head record. Head to Head includes an entire career and doesn't necessarily determine the better player right now. Jaedong clearly has Flash's number right now for whatever reason you want to say, but that doesn't suddenly nullify everything Flash has accomplished in the past year and a half. That's 5 titles vs 1. There's only 4 players who've won 5 or more titles-- Flash, Jaedong, Nada and Oov. It took Nada many years to get his fifth title and even more to win his sixth. It took Oov over 2 year to win 5. Jaedong? 2007-2010. While Flash did win his first title in 2008, he also just won 5 titles in about a year and a half from the start of Ever 09 till this most recent MSL. Undoubtedly the most insane run by any player in broodwar history and I don't know what other cold hard facts you need.
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On June 23 2011 17:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I'm just wondering if you were even around here when Flash was going on his run last year. There were constant threads about how invincible Flash was, and the exact reason people gave Flash the nod over Jaedong for the silly bonjwa title was entirely because of the aura of invincibility he had. You can't just say "Well I never thought he was a bonjwa" the second he falls on hard times (Hard times being winning an MSL I guess). I understand a Jaedong fan wouldn't have the same mindset as most because they'd think Jaedong was gonna win every one of those, so maybe the aura of domination thing didn't apply to you, but it certainly did to the community at large.
Better, I was in Korea watching his games live whenever I can. FYI, bonjwa is about current status, not retrospect. I will correct you and say that Flash NEVER had that aura of invincibility in all those finals. It was only afterwards, after Korean Air OSL the discussion started. But when it was time to prove if he is indeed bonjwa, guess what? He lost left and right, didnt even qualify for MSL, and continues to perform sub-par to this day. We have no problem if you say Flash has 6 golds, but "Bonjwa" is a privileged title and not taken lightly, especially if you know what it means and not just know about it here in the forums.
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On June 23 2011 17:37 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 17:32 KMJ wrote:
I said it before. Statistics. Facts. Actual Events. Record.
I'm not speculating about possibilities or conjectures. I'm simply stating the record. And Flash fans seem to have a problem that Jaedong is ahead on that part. Sorry. Facts, plain and simple. The only record that matters is titles, Flash is ahead!
How you dodge. I talk about most wins and bring up a record no one is even arguing. Lame.
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On June 23 2011 17:40 KMJ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 17:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I'm just wondering if you were even around here when Flash was going on his run last year. There were constant threads about how invincible Flash was, and the exact reason people gave Flash the nod over Jaedong for the silly bonjwa title was entirely because of the aura of invincibility he had. You can't just say "Well I never thought he was a bonjwa" the second he falls on hard times (Hard times being winning an MSL I guess). I understand a Jaedong fan wouldn't have the same mindset as most because they'd think Jaedong was gonna win every one of those, so maybe the aura of domination thing didn't apply to you, but it certainly did to the community at large. Better, I was in Korea watching his games live whenever I can. FYI, bonjwa is about current status, not retrospect. I will correct you and say that Flash NEVER had that aura of invincibility in all those finals. It was only afterwards, after Korean Air OSL the discussion started. But when it was time to prove if he is indeed bonjwa, guess what? He lost left and right, didnt even qualify for MSL, and continues to perform sub-par to this day. We have no problem if you say Flash has 6 golds, but "Bonjwa" is a privileged title and not taken lightly, especially if you know what it means and not just know about it here in the forums.
What? Flash was considered the best player in the world going into those finals, winning double titles was what he had to do to prove he was the real deal in are modern level of expectation. You're playing heavy revisionist history. And Bonjwa is most often a retrospective, what are you talking about? All of the bonjwas received the title retrospectively, besides Savior. Is Oov suddenly not a bonjwa because we had to look back at his accomplishment to apply the title?
On June 23 2011 17:43 KMJ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 17:37 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 23 2011 17:32 KMJ wrote:
I said it before. Statistics. Facts. Actual Events. Record.
I'm not speculating about possibilities or conjectures. I'm simply stating the record. And Flash fans seem to have a problem that Jaedong is ahead on that part. Sorry. Facts, plain and simple. The only record that matters is titles, Flash is ahead! How you dodge. I talk about most wins and bring up a record no one is even arguing. Lame.
Yeah, and so now I can't bring up titles? Only you are allowed to bring up cold hard facts as a determinate for a player's dominance? Jaedong's played more games than Flash, of course he has more wins. Flash has a better winrate over a clearly representative sample size. All things retaining course, Flash will pass up Jaedong in winrate assuming they retire after similar career length.
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On June 23 2011 17:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 17:40 KMJ wrote:On June 23 2011 17:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I'm just wondering if you were even around here when Flash was going on his run last year. There were constant threads about how invincible Flash was, and the exact reason people gave Flash the nod over Jaedong for the silly bonjwa title was entirely because of the aura of invincibility he had. You can't just say "Well I never thought he was a bonjwa" the second he falls on hard times (Hard times being winning an MSL I guess). I understand a Jaedong fan wouldn't have the same mindset as most because they'd think Jaedong was gonna win every one of those, so maybe the aura of domination thing didn't apply to you, but it certainly did to the community at large. Better, I was in Korea watching his games live whenever I can. FYI, bonjwa is about current status, not retrospect. I will correct you and say that Flash NEVER had that aura of invincibility in all those finals. It was only afterwards, after Korean Air OSL the discussion started. But when it was time to prove if he is indeed bonjwa, guess what? He lost left and right, didnt even qualify for MSL, and continues to perform sub-par to this day. We have no problem if you say Flash has 6 golds, but "Bonjwa" is a privileged title and not taken lightly, especially if you know what it means and not just know about it here in the forums. What? Flash was considered the best player in the world going into those finals, winning double titles was what he had to do to prove he was the real deal in are modern level of expectation. You're playing heavy revisionist history.
BONJWA. No one is talking about who is the best or who has the most titles. Disgusting. Ask your mom to teach you how to read and then come back here so we are on the same level.
User was warned for this post
User was banned for this post.
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LOL continue guys. BW sideshow is fun :p
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On June 23 2011 17:47 KMJ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 17:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 23 2011 17:40 KMJ wrote:On June 23 2011 17:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I'm just wondering if you were even around here when Flash was going on his run last year. There were constant threads about how invincible Flash was, and the exact reason people gave Flash the nod over Jaedong for the silly bonjwa title was entirely because of the aura of invincibility he had. You can't just say "Well I never thought he was a bonjwa" the second he falls on hard times (Hard times being winning an MSL I guess). I understand a Jaedong fan wouldn't have the same mindset as most because they'd think Jaedong was gonna win every one of those, so maybe the aura of domination thing didn't apply to you, but it certainly did to the community at large. Better, I was in Korea watching his games live whenever I can. FYI, bonjwa is about current status, not retrospect. I will correct you and say that Flash NEVER had that aura of invincibility in all those finals. It was only afterwards, after Korean Air OSL the discussion started. But when it was time to prove if he is indeed bonjwa, guess what? He lost left and right, didnt even qualify for MSL, and continues to perform sub-par to this day. We have no problem if you say Flash has 6 golds, but "Bonjwa" is a privileged title and not taken lightly, especially if you know what it means and not just know about it here in the forums. What? Flash was considered the best player in the world going into those finals, winning double titles was what he had to do to prove he was the real deal in are modern level of expectation. You're playing heavy revisionist history. BONJWA. No one is talking about who is the best or who has the most titles. Disgusting. Ask your mom to teach you how to read and then come back here so we are on the same level.
I added more to that statement but if you're going to degrade this into senseless insults then we're done here.
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On June 23 2011 17:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Yeah, and so now I can't bring up titles? Only you are allowed to bring up cold hard facts as a determinate for a player's dominance? Jaedong's played more games than Flash, of course he has more wins. Flash has a better winrate over a clearly representative sample size. All things retaining course, Flash will pass up Jaedong in winrate assuming they retire after similar career length.
Well, he did mention he was talking about most wins. Yours is another topic completely. Sorry TTT, would love to side with you but he made it clear from the start.
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On June 23 2011 17:53 whiterabb1t wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 17:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Yeah, and so now I can't bring up titles? Only you are allowed to bring up cold hard facts as a determinate for a player's dominance? Jaedong's played more games than Flash, of course he has more wins. Flash has a better winrate over a clearly representative sample size. All things retaining course, Flash will pass up Jaedong in winrate assuming they retire after similar career length. Well, he did mention he was talking about most wins. Yours is another topic completely. Sorry TTT, would love to side with you but he made it clear from the start.
Actually the conversation was just your bog standard "aura of domination" "bonjwa" blah blah etc to start. Bringing up most wins is just an extension of that, so I brought up most titles to point out how both arguments are silly.
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flash had the advantage in maps in those SLs, i demand a fighting spirit bo5
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On June 23 2011 11:49 KMJ wrote:
JD has the winningest record in BW.
On June 23 2011 12:01 Mumei wrote:
And how does Jaedong have the winningest record when he's ~4% behind Flash? Unless you just mean sheer quantity of wins, in which case he's just 40 wins ahead, which isn't significant at all considering Jaedong's headstart.
On June 23 2011 12:21 KMJ wrote:
Like I said, statistics are statistics. Not the "how" or "why" but the "what", and what it is is that Jaedong is the winningest BW player ever.
100 or so post of more or less the same thing...
On June 23 2011 17:32 KMJ wrote:
I said it before. Statistics. Facts. Actual Events. Record.
I'm not speculating about possibilities or conjectures. I'm simply stating the record. And Flash fans seem to have a problem that Jaedong is ahead on that part. Sorry. Facts, plain and simple.
On June 23 2011 17:37 TwoToneTerran wrote:
The only record that matters is titles, Flash is ahead!
TTT, You were the one who jumped in. Clearly they were arguing about the most wins, with Mumei arguing that JD played longer and KMJ arguing that he is only stating the record. You have good intentions but you were arguing another topic, or just plainly on a different premise.
Either way, this bickering is really unnecessary. Please stop everyone.
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EPT
