[SPL] SKT vs KT - Page 84

On April 26 2011 04:06 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Ok, it's not a cheese. It's an original and very agressive opening, designed to exploit a weakness in the raxFE trendy build. It worked exceptionnaly well, because Flash scouted opposite side while being on close position.

Had Flash been crossed position or scouuted him, he would have seen the stream of zealot and bunker'd up.

All credit go to Bisu for this game. But it doesn't say much more than the fact that he micro'ed amazingly and has a lot of creativity. Saying that this shows he is better than Flash, and that despite the two brutal rape of the MSL, is just absurd.

On April 26 2011 04:40 Holgerius wrote:
I do not want to see ''A>B, B>C, therefore A>C'' arguments. They're absolutely terrible and you can reach all kinds of ridiculous conclusions with them.

On April 26 2011 04:54 chisuri wrote:

I specifically state that I don't want to use that arguments, I just want to question the ABSOLUTE SUPERIORITY of Flash over Bisu if he lost to someone who has been losing to Bisu for quite a while now. You should REALLY CONSIDER that. Bisu lost 2 games to Flash in 1 day, maybe he couldn't prepare. Maybe he had a day off (hell, Flash and JD and Stork all have some days off). And he did win Flash 1 game on another day. So yeah, it's not objective to base everything on the MSL games. Moreover, If you insist, Flash > Bisu in MSL, he definitely > Bisu this month. Then JD >>>>>> Flash in MSL, Flash lost to slumping Best lol noob, JD definitely > Flash this month. Then Bisu > JD in some recent games and JD is dropping game in PL now, he definitely > JD this month. Then who is the #1?
We should consider other results, some is comparative, I know, but it's better than your reasoning "take MSL and ignore everything else, that's my perception etc...". Then how can we decide the order of top 3: JD, Bisu, Flash?

On April 26 2011 05:04 Murderotica wrote:

At least one PR writer wrote that it is determined by "force" or how scary it would be to face one of the players in a match. Flash is scary to face in all MUs. Same with Jaedong. Bisu is not nearly as scary in PvP as Flash is in TvP or Jaedong is in ZvP right now with his slumping record, for example. That is why Bisu hasn't been #1 on PR in years - he never seems indomitable, except maybe in PvZ sometimes, and sometimes in PvP (more towards the earlier years of his career).

On April 26 2011 05:15 chisuri wrote:

So the writer is facing Bisu JD and Flash in the game to sense and compare their forces, rite? Because I don't know another way to do that. If he still "senses" something, I very doubt that it's his preference, which is very biased. Flash is scary in TvP? Yeah, he lost to Bisu and slumping Best in this month and was dropping game to other Protoss recently. He got raped by JD and recently showed some weaknesses vs Zergs. The Force is not strong in this one. JD is scary in ZvP? He lost to Bisu, which is understandable but recently Snow and Stork are causing him some difficulties. And Snow is not THAT good based on his results. So I don't know how to sense his force but...yeah he is not invincible, especially in ZvZ. Maybe you should try to sense the force of PL's championship and solid PL's performance and even good display in the MSL?

On April 26 2011 05:15 chisuri wrote:

So the writer is facing Bisu JD and Flash in the game to sense and compare their forces, rite? Because I don't know another way to do that. If he still "senses" something, I very doubt that it's his preference, which is very biased. Flash is scary in TvP? Yeah, he lost to Bisu and slumping Best in this month and was dropping game to other Protoss recently. The Force is not strong in this one. JD is scary in ZvP? He lost to Bisu, which is understandable but recently Snow and Stork are causing him some difficulties. And Snow is not THAT good based on his results. So I don't know how to sense his force but...yeah he is not invincible, especially in ZvZ. So maybe you can sense the force of PL's championship and solid PL's performance and even good display in the MSL?

On April 26 2011 05:24 Murderotica wrote:

So you are saying you would rather face Flash or Jaedong than Bisu right now, if you were a progamer?

On April 26 2011 05:15 chisuri wrote:

So the writer is facing Bisu JD and Flash in the game to sense and compare their forces, rite? Because I don't know another way to do that. If he still "senses" something, I very doubt that it's his preference, which is very biased. Flash is scary in TvP? Yeah, he lost to Bisu and slumping Best in this month and was dropping game to other Protoss recently. He got raped by JD and recently showed some weaknesses vs Zergs. The Force is not strong in this one. JD is scary in ZvP? He lost to Bisu, which is understandable but recently Snow and Stork are causing him some difficulties. And Snow is not THAT good based on his results. So I don't know how to sense his force but...yeah he is not invincible, especially in ZvZ. Maybe you should try to sense the force of PL's championship and solid PL's performance and even good display in the MSL?

On April 26 2011 05:55 saltywet wrote:
2011 mapmakers decided to make maps protoss favored, thus bisu, stork and all these protosses increased their winrate so much, and terrans and zergs winrates decrease. i think protosses have >50% winrate for both matchups this season, and zergs have <50% winrate for both matchups this season to prove it. yet jaedong and flash still manage to beat bisu and these protosses in BO matches on protoss favored maps. and not complain about map imba like a certain lil bitch (bisu)

On April 26 2011 05:15 chisuri wrote:

So the writer is facing Bisu JD and Flash in the game to sense and compare their forces, rite? Because I don't know another way to do that. If he still "senses" something, I very doubt that it's his preference, which is very biased. Flash is scary in TvP? Yeah, he lost to Bisu and slumping Best in this month and was dropping game to other Protoss recently. He got raped by JD and recently showed some weaknesses vs Zergs. The Force is not strong in this one. JD is scary in ZvP? He lost to Bisu, which is understandable but recently Snow and Stork are causing him some difficulties. And Snow is not THAT good based on his results. So I don't know how to sense his force but...yeah he is not invincible, especially in ZvZ. Maybe you should try to sense the force of PL's championship and solid PL's performance and even good display in the MSL?

On April 26 2011 06:02 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:
@ kamikami: Jaedong > Bisu on Benzene, which is 48% ZvP. (though yeah, this is pretty close to 50%, but still)

On April 26 2011 08:37 Seraphic wrote:
Oh please, we ALL know Bisu has always been odd in his strength compared to other Toss players. That's why everyone still consider him the best. You're not the most decorated Protoss player in BW without doing something right.

He is still considered S-class to most players. Flash is still obviously better, and just because JD won vs Flash this time, won't count again if they met up again in MSL.

Just ask yourselves, when was the last time, the LAST time ANY Protoss won a Starleague? It goes all the way back to 09 w/ 6 Dragons. Since then, it was all Flash and JD with little Hydra & Effort in the middle. Stork and Bisu gives the Protoss there best chance to win, and yet they both have their weakness that seems to be the only reason why they aren't able to get there anymore. (Except for Stork, but getting 3-0ed by Fantasy is...uh... head scratcher.)

So please stop saying Bisu lost his mojo. If Bisu was not in the Group of (D)eath, I'm almost certain he could have passed to at least round 8. He is, beyond anyone, I noticed seems to be fairly unlucky when it comes to Starleagues. Don't think it helps that the past winner (Hydra) and runner-up (Great) were Zergs. If they said they weren't afraid of Bisu then they wouldn't have throw the group together in the first place.