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just watched the vods!! gotta love bisu, so cute~~ skt1 forever. gl in group D bisu
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Japan11286 Posts
On April 11 2011 18:38 micromegas wrote:
Disappointing to say the least. s2 played well and so did Bisu but, like several people pointed out already, SKT seems to almost exclusively rely on the theoretical 'right' build for whichever opponent they're playing. And of course on Bisu's ability to take home the decisive one-kill against opponents like Jaedong and Flash. In short: they're a competent and boring team, but I guess that's enough to deserve a victory.
Is there anything wrong with preparing builds & strategies? Should teams not prepare for matches because it makes them win? Belligerent or well organised armies going to war without any prep or strategy is something one sees in movies. Also it's not like KT didn't prepare.
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Russian Federation3329 Posts
On April 11 2011 19:07 Gpax300 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 18:38 micromegas wrote:
Disappointing to say the least. s2 played well and so did Bisu but, like several people pointed out already, SKT seems to almost exclusively rely on the theoretical 'right' build for whichever opponent they're playing. And of course on Bisu's ability to take home the decisive one-kill against opponents like Jaedong and Flash. In short: they're a competent and boring team, but I guess that's enough to deserve a victory. So if you know that using a certain strategy/plan will increase your chance of winning then why not use it? And how is that boring? Or you just prefer to have matches with two players play standard games into macro mode so that a fundamentally better player will always win all the time? I know that it hurts and you're disappointed to be on a losing side but this kind of argument just makes no sense and is logically very wrong.
very true... i mean... both teams, KT even more so, had time to practice and create builds for every possible situation... i bet they were expecting SKT, but they had 3 whole weeks to practice and prepare while SKT only had one week for KT
they both had the same chances... using the predictability of the other player and punishing his greedy builds that he somehow has gotten away with all this time is perfectly normal i think... in fact, it's even advisable, so the other player changes too~
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On April 11 2011 18:38 micromegas wrote:
Disappointing to say the least. s2 played well and so did Bisu but, like several people pointed out already, SKT seems to almost exclusively rely on the theoretical 'right' build for whichever opponent they're playing. And of course on Bisu's ability to take home the decisive one-kill against opponents like Jaedong and Flash. In short: they're a competent and boring team, but I guess that's enough to deserve a victory.
I think this is exactly why they are NOT boring but very entertaining to watch, since they rely on strategical purposes to overwhelm their opponents and this pleases my RTS mind
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KT just seemed really unenthusiastic and were not trying their best. imo
KT needs to stop relying on flash 90% of the time.
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but the irony is that KT did not rely on Flash for more than 90% of their games in Winner's League (by "rely" I refer to KT falling apart as a whole with Flash as the only reason they would win a game.)
It was SKT that had to be salvaged by Bisu for a majority of its matches in WL.
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On April 11 2011 20:30 c3rberUs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 18:38 micromegas wrote:
Disappointing to say the least. s2 played well and so did Bisu but, like several people pointed out already, SKT seems to almost exclusively rely on the theoretical 'right' build for whichever opponent they're playing. And of course on Bisu's ability to take home the decisive one-kill against opponents like Jaedong and Flash. In short: they're a competent and boring team, but I guess that's enough to deserve a victory. Is there anything wrong with preparing builds & strategies? Should teams not prepare for matches because it makes them win? Belligerent or well organised armies going to war without any prep or strategy is something one sees in movies. Also it's not like KT didn't prepare.
No, there is not, and yeah, why wouldn't they?
But seriously, you're putting words into my mouth here. The only point here is that I think that SKT as a team are boring and play boring Starcraft. That's my opinion as far as I never think they ever really do anything unexpected and because I think the players are generally uninspiring and sometimes less than likeable individuals. And no matter what you or I might think, they rely very heavily on Bisu to finish off matches against the top level players. So, all in all, uninspiring.
I only stated that they're boring, and please note the words "competent" and "deserve a victory" towards the end.
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On April 11 2011 21:45 Bisu-Fan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 19:07 Gpax300 wrote:On April 11 2011 18:38 micromegas wrote:
Disappointing to say the least. s2 played well and so did Bisu but, like several people pointed out already, SKT seems to almost exclusively rely on the theoretical 'right' build for whichever opponent they're playing. And of course on Bisu's ability to take home the decisive one-kill against opponents like Jaedong and Flash. In short: they're a competent and boring team, but I guess that's enough to deserve a victory. So if you know that using a certain strategy/plan will increase your chance of winning then why not use it? And how is that boring? Or you just prefer to have matches with two players play standard games into macro mode so that a fundamentally better player will always win all the time? I know that it hurts and you're disappointed to be on a losing side but this kind of argument just makes no sense and is logically very wrong. very true... i mean... both teams, KT even more so, had time to practice and create builds for every possible situation... i bet they were expecting SKT, but they had 3 whole weeks to practice and prepare while SKT only had one week for KT they both had the same chances... using the predictability of the other player and punishing his greedy builds that he somehow has gotten away with all this time is perfectly normal i think... in fact, it's even advisable, so the other player changes too~
Well, "hurts" might be stretching it, but I'm certainly a bit disappointed with the low entertainment value of the games (not counting the last one).
There is no "logic" to my argument because I'm not trying to argue at all. You're trying to make it blatantly obvious that the finals was not a standard-macro-best-player-hauls-it-home-kinda-game and that I somenhow ought to agree with that, but I don't.
Again, I don't like SKT for several reasons, and I really like to stress the fact that I never claimed their victory on the 9th to be unfair or even undeserved. Just boring.
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On April 12 2011 00:08 micromegas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 20:30 c3rberUs wrote:On April 11 2011 18:38 micromegas wrote:
Disappointing to say the least. s2 played well and so did Bisu but, like several people pointed out already, SKT seems to almost exclusively rely on the theoretical 'right' build for whichever opponent they're playing. And of course on Bisu's ability to take home the decisive one-kill against opponents like Jaedong and Flash. In short: they're a competent and boring team, but I guess that's enough to deserve a victory. Is there anything wrong with preparing builds & strategies? Should teams not prepare for matches because it makes them win? Belligerent or well organised armies going to war without any prep or strategy is something one sees in movies. Also it's not like KT didn't prepare. No, there is not, and yeah, why wouldn't they? But seriously, you're putting words into my mouth here. The only point here is that I think that SKT as a team are boring and play boring Starcraft. That's my opinion as far as I never think they ever really do anything unexpected and because I think the players are generally uninspiring and sometimes less than likeable individuals. And no matter what you or I might think, they rely very heavily on Bisu to finish off matches against the top level players. So, all in all, uninspiring. I only stated that they're boring, and please note the words "competent" and "deserve a victory" towards the end.
What exactly is "boring" about SKT? Is it fantasy's wide range of strategies from bio mech, to 2 port wraith, to valk? Is it the best vulture harass ever? Is it ssak who uses unconventional strategies to push the best of the game to the brink if not beating them? Is it paralyze being a complete baller in different ways for each of his games? Or is it bisu showing that PvZ is imbalanced in favor of P time and time again? SKT has the deepest and most diverse team (save possibly hite. It's arguable). And ok bisu is needed to take out high level players (atm) but what team has 2 players that can consistently top S class players? Fantasy has a better chance to take out a flash/jaedong than any other second player.
I guess in summary: what do other teams have that make them not "boring"?
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Russian Federation3329 Posts
On April 12 2011 00:26 hacklebeast wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 00:08 micromegas wrote:On April 11 2011 20:30 c3rberUs wrote:On April 11 2011 18:38 micromegas wrote:
Disappointing to say the least. s2 played well and so did Bisu but, like several people pointed out already, SKT seems to almost exclusively rely on the theoretical 'right' build for whichever opponent they're playing. And of course on Bisu's ability to take home the decisive one-kill against opponents like Jaedong and Flash. In short: they're a competent and boring team, but I guess that's enough to deserve a victory. Is there anything wrong with preparing builds & strategies? Should teams not prepare for matches because it makes them win? Belligerent or well organised armies going to war without any prep or strategy is something one sees in movies. Also it's not like KT didn't prepare. No, there is not, and yeah, why wouldn't they? But seriously, you're putting words into my mouth here. The only point here is that I think that SKT as a team are boring and play boring Starcraft. That's my opinion as far as I never think they ever really do anything unexpected and because I think the players are generally uninspiring and sometimes less than likeable individuals. And no matter what you or I might think, they rely very heavily on Bisu to finish off matches against the top level players. So, all in all, uninspiring. I only stated that they're boring, and please note the words "competent" and "deserve a victory" towards the end. What exactly is "boring" about SKT? Is it fantasy's wide range of strategies from bio mech, to 2 port wraith, to valk? Is it the best vulture harass ever? Is it ssak who uses unconventional strategies to push the best of the game to the brink if not beating them? Is it paralyze being a complete baller in different ways for each of his games? Or is it bisu showing that PvZ is imbalanced in favor of P time and time again? SKT has the deepest and most diverse team (save possibly hite. It's arguable). And ok bisu is needed to take out high level players (atm) but what team has 2 players that can consistently top S class players? Fantasy has a better chance to take out a flash/jaedong than any other second player. I guess in summary: what do other teams have that make them not "boring"?
I guess he's just saying, personally, he doesn't find all of what you just said (which I wholeheartedly agree with) fun at all...
But then can I ask you what you do find to be fun Starcraft to watch???
Just curious~
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Fantasy and "not really do anything unexpected" do not compute.
And wasn't the whole point of Bisu's build over Flash to be something he normally never faces, aka unexpected? Does not compute.
I believe you that you do not like watching SKT1, but you're either lying to us or lying to yourself about the true reasons.
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Define "boring" Starcraft pls. You expect every progamers to risk in a finals by playing unorthodox build like those in " Cool and Unsual Starcraft"
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KT's planning of the matches and players was horrible. SKT won nothing there, KT coaches blew it with terrible decisions. Action first isn't necessarily bad, but trying to snipe S2 on the second set with a Zerg didn't seem like a good idea, why not send Stats on Fortress? Sending him one set later on a terrible map was a mistake. So we have 2 unspectacular ZvZs, followed by S2 summoning Shine to display some ugly ZvP all-in that's equally unspectacular. That leaves us with Flash out on a Terran graveyard that should have been taken out of the map rotation long ago. The Marine micro was impressive and Bisu played well with his Zeals, but really, he didn't have much to do past that point, he simply rode the map advantage he had. Quite unspectacular. Terrible finals, KT's planning was horrible, SKT's play was painful to watch and the whole pre-match hype makes it even more lackluster. Such a sad day to be a BW enthusiast.
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On April 12 2011 05:54 Zamkis wrote:
KT's planning of the matches and players was horrible. SKT won nothing there, KT coaches blew it with terrible decisions. Action first isn't necessarily bad, but trying to snipe S2 on the second set with a Zerg didn't seem like a good idea, why not send Stats on Fortress? Sending him one set later on a terrible map was a mistake. So we have 2 unspectacular ZvZs, followed by S2 summoning Shine to display some ugly ZvP all-in that's equally unspectacular. That leaves us with Flash out on a Terran graveyard that should have been taken out of the map rotation long ago. The Marine micro was impressive and Bisu played well with his Zeals, but really, he didn't have much to do past that point, he simply rode the map advantage he had. Quite unspectacular. Terrible finals, KT's planning was horrible, SKT's play was painful to watch and the whole pre-match hype makes it even more lackluster. Such a sad day to be a BW enthusiast.
Yes, it is sad when your the one carrying the losing banner. The T1 fans loves these kinds of play by our team. This is what separates them from the other team. A very, very sad day.
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On April 11 2011 18:38 micromegas wrote:
Disappointing to say the least. s2 played well and so did Bisu but, like several people pointed out already, SKT seems to almost exclusively rely on the theoretical 'right' build for whichever opponent they're playing. And of course on Bisu's ability to take home the decisive one-kill against opponents like Jaedong and Flash. In short: they're a competent and boring team, but I guess that's enough to deserve a Victory.
WL is like the final exam its either step up or go home a failure. So whenever you have an exam to Study for, do you take Anytime to prepare for the exam? If you say no your a hypocrite or your a freaking genus. Pick One 
On April 12 2011 05:54 Zamkis wrote:
KT's planning of the matches and players was horrible. SKT won nothing there, KT coaches blew it with terrible decisions. Action First isn't necessarily bad, but trying to snipe s2 on the second set with a Zerg didn't seem like a good idea, why not send Stats on Fortress? Sending him One set later on a terrible map was a mistake. So we have 2 unspectacular ZvZs, followed by s2 summoning Shine to display some ugly ZvP all-in that's equally unspectacular. That leaves us with Flash out on a Terran graveyard that should have been taken out of the map rotation long ago. The MarinE micro was impressive and Bisu played well with his Zeals, but Really, he didn't have much to do past that Point, he simply rode the map advantage he had. Quite unspectacular. Terrible finals, KT's planning was horrible, SKT's play was painful to watch and the whole pre-match hype makes it even more lackluster. Such a sad day to be a BW enthusiast.
You cant blame KT coaching. They probably sent out Crazy-Hydra to take down s2 in hopes of bringing out, Bisu to take down Crazy-Hydra. KT coach's were probably going to use Stats to snipe Bisu if he come out to take down Crazy-Hydra. But s2 did so well it didnt work. Sad thing was I think SKT didnt even think s2 would take down Stats. Stats was mind fuked hard by that cancel lair. Even if stats wouldve sent out another probe to scout I believe s2 had scatter his zerg to deny scouting information. Plus that is not a Shine all-in. Most Shine all-ins require multiple hydra burst and even if he's failed he still tries to hydra burst. I also think Flash got mind fuked. He thought bisu would advance from the bridge and had placed most of his tanks and mines at the bridge. Little did he know that Bisu would come from the small ramp and destroy Flash's army. If flash would've turtle for his 3rd he would've probably increased his winning chances to 70% (we all know most of the time when flash gets his 3rd up and running its flash almost guarantee auto win).
It seems Flash is losing his star sense. The one thing that separates him from all the other high level player such as Jaedong and Fantasy. We all saw how dominate Jaedong when he had the same star sense as flash.
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On April 11 2011 11:59 aimaimaim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 11:08 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 10:58 Doraemon wrote:On April 11 2011 05:14 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 03:51 dukethegold wrote:On April 11 2011 02:35 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 01:23 aimaimaim wrote:On April 11 2011 00:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On April 10 2011 23:34 infinity2k9 wrote:On April 10 2011 22:25 ibreakurface wrote:
[quote]
If you blindly do something hoping to get an advantage, and risk getting a disadvantage, it's gimmicky. Whether it's a 14cc or BBS. Bisu didn't rely on mechanics or micro, just a BO advantage.
I cannot believe how one sided people manage to see this. Flash went for a BLIND Rax CC with no bunker in a series when they are 3-1 behind, instead of playing a safe FD. How is that not a risk exactly? Bisu was modest in the interview cause even against FD his build would have been still fine and go into a normal game, Flash was the one doing the risky eco build. And how did he not rely on micro when he took the scouted decision to continue aggressive zealot pressure? And then there's people trying to stretch that Aztec is the worst TvP map ever somehow despite the fact Flash Rax CC's quite often and could have had the identical result elsewhere. Due to low ground mains getting up on the natural ridge for T when pushing is excellent, it definitely has it's upsides and if anything Flash got a favorable starting position to push from as opposed to straight down. Bisu going gate first on the top of the ramp is just a smart decision not some massive all-out risk like some are trying to suggest. If Flash was seriously worried about the map as if it was Bloody Ridge why not 2fac then or something, is he not confident he can beat Bisu in a micro battle ala HBR again? The arguments here are like saying 'wow Outsider imba ZvT remove it!' after Flash gets crippled by early ling pressure due to 14CC and dies later to mutas. And yes i agree with the person above that it was one of those typical games that often happens between Flash/Jaedong/Bisu where the eco advantage rolls into a win for certain. But Flash made the game losing decision in this case. 1gate Nex was not do or die. On April 10 2011 23:08 okum wrote:
It was cheese. Of a very fine quality. No it just wasn't, simple as that. How you can think a gate then nex is cheese i have no idea. People don't have to allow Terran's to get the best eco build possible with no reaction. On April 10 2011 23:03 Biff The Understudy wrote:
[quote]
Agree.
The only thing which can be said about Bisu's build, is that it's a one shot build. Won't ever work again. He used it in a very important game, and that's really SKT1 style (startegic builds well prepared for one precise game), so congratz to him.
Flash microed his marines absolutely amazingly too, which makes Bisu's performance even more impressive. Building a gate first at natural on a low ground main map is not one shot; And clearly not even a bad build regularly if Terrans are going to Rax CC in so many games. If it turns out to be FD just don't build more zealots and transition to normal play. How would he be 'miles' behind from having 1 zealot produced (cause the scout would see if it was worth continuing with the play) when the Nex is still up straight away. Streaming zealots in PvT isn't precisely the thing to do unless you really know what your opponent is doing.Even building a couple of zealots, considering that Gate Nex is inferior economically to Rax FE would put him really far behind. Bisu said in an interview days ago he had a counter build. Flash has just been dumb to do exactly what he expected. Bisu knew Flash was gonna Rax FE Bisu knew his zealot micro is great S-class level Bisu can still make goons if he saw a safer build IDK why flash fans (not you :p) insists that it was cheese or it was the map. Why can't they see Flash's fault? Fantasy is 4-1 in this map, with games from stork and snow. And to think this was the finals, flash should have at least prepared for the worst case scenario. And knowing T1, they have build orders for every possible out come, they know how to double their chances of winning. Why wasn't KT prepared? Why was flash unprepared? Flash was under prepared because he had to prepare for everything. Bisu only had to practice vT for a snipe since he has other players to back him up, like fantasy. Flash has to be prepared for pretty much every matchup on the last 4 maps.. Somehow you ignored the fact that SKT had to claw its way to the final while KT sat home looking pretty with very generous amount of practice time. I doubt flash practiced vP on aztec, or thought he had to. That's all I have to say. lol so he spent those extra 2 weeks thinking he wouldn't be sent before set 4? ? He knew he wouldn't be sent out in any of the 1st 3 games, and there was a very slim chance of him playing the 4th. I don't get your point. This is a competitive scene. Flash has to be prepared for the finals, their coaching staff should have made preparations for flash in case of snipe, because there is a 100% that there will be a snipe. If you blame aztec, again, let's compare Flash vs Fantasy then. Fantasy is a 4-1 on Aztec. Why is that? BECAUSE HE WAS PREPARED. Being lazy was Flash's problem, not Bisu's, not T1, not s2's not the map. Accept it, he was out-played by the team. Ask yourself this instead, WHY DID KT RELIED ON FLASH?Then you will understand why Flash was defeated by Bisu, Why T1 defeated KT.
Yes this is a competitive scene, yes he needs to be prepared, yes flash should be prepared for a snipe. You are refusing to see that this is a TEAM competition though. The coaching staff assumed, and this is a fairly good assumption imo, that flash wouldn't have to except the snipe on aztec. KT probably expected to get at least one kill in the 1st 3 games, ruining the ability for SKT to snipe flash on aztec.
Disclaimer: Theorycrafting ^
The point I'm trying to make is, don't be so quick to call flash lazy, he could have spent 2 weeks practicing the wrong games/match-ups.
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On April 12 2011 09:11 ibreakurface wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 11:59 aimaimaim wrote:On April 11 2011 11:08 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 10:58 Doraemon wrote:On April 11 2011 05:14 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 03:51 dukethegold wrote:On April 11 2011 02:35 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 01:23 aimaimaim wrote:On April 11 2011 00:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On April 10 2011 23:34 infinity2k9 wrote:
[quote]
I cannot believe how one sided people manage to see this. Flash went for a BLIND Rax CC with no bunker in a series when they are 3-1 behind, instead of playing a safe FD. How is that not a risk exactly? Bisu was modest in the interview cause even against FD his build would have been still fine and go into a normal game, Flash was the one doing the risky eco build. And how did he not rely on micro when he took the scouted decision to continue aggressive zealot pressure?
And then there's people trying to stretch that Aztec is the worst TvP map ever somehow despite the fact Flash Rax CC's quite often and could have had the identical result elsewhere. Due to low ground mains getting up on the natural ridge for T when pushing is excellent, it definitely has it's upsides and if anything Flash got a favorable starting position to push from as opposed to straight down. Bisu going gate first on the top of the ramp is just a smart decision not some massive all-out risk like some are trying to suggest.
If Flash was seriously worried about the map as if it was Bloody Ridge why not 2fac then or something, is he not confident he can beat Bisu in a micro battle ala HBR again? The arguments here are like saying 'wow Outsider imba ZvT remove it!' after Flash gets crippled by early ling pressure due to 14CC and dies later to mutas.
And yes i agree with the person above that it was one of those typical games that often happens between Flash/Jaedong/Bisu where the eco advantage rolls into a win for certain. But Flash made the game losing decision in this case. 1gate Nex was not do or die.
[quote]
No it just wasn't, simple as that. How you can think a gate then nex is cheese i have no idea. People don't have to allow Terran's to get the best eco build possible with no reaction.
[quote]
Building a gate first at natural on a low ground main map is not one shot; And clearly not even a bad build regularly if Terrans are going to Rax CC in so many games. If it turns out to be FD just don't build more zealots and transition to normal play. How would he be 'miles' behind from having 1 zealot produced (cause the scout would see if it was worth continuing with the play) when the Nex is still up straight away. Streaming zealots in PvT isn't precisely the thing to do unless you really know what your opponent is doing.Even building a couple of zealots, considering that Gate Nex is inferior economically to Rax FE would put him really far behind. Bisu said in an interview days ago he had a counter build. Flash has just been dumb to do exactly what he expected. Bisu knew Flash was gonna Rax FE Bisu knew his zealot micro is great S-class level Bisu can still make goons if he saw a safer build IDK why flash fans (not you :p) insists that it was cheese or it was the map. Why can't they see Flash's fault? Fantasy is 4-1 in this map, with games from stork and snow. And to think this was the finals, flash should have at least prepared for the worst case scenario. And knowing T1, they have build orders for every possible out come, they know how to double their chances of winning. Why wasn't KT prepared? Why was flash unprepared? Flash was under prepared because he had to prepare for everything. Bisu only had to practice vT for a snipe since he has other players to back him up, like fantasy. Flash has to be prepared for pretty much every matchup on the last 4 maps.. Somehow you ignored the fact that SKT had to claw its way to the final while KT sat home looking pretty with very generous amount of practice time. I doubt flash practiced vP on aztec, or thought he had to. That's all I have to say. lol so he spent those extra 2 weeks thinking he wouldn't be sent before set 4? ? He knew he wouldn't be sent out in any of the 1st 3 games, and there was a very slim chance of him playing the 4th. I don't get your point. This is a competitive scene. Flash has to be prepared for the finals, their coaching staff should have made preparations for flash in case of snipe, because there is a 100% that there will be a snipe. If you blame aztec, again, let's compare Flash vs Fantasy then. Fantasy is a 4-1 on Aztec. Why is that? BECAUSE HE WAS PREPARED. Being lazy was Flash's problem, not Bisu's, not T1, not s2's not the map. Accept it, he was out-played by the team. Ask yourself this instead, WHY DID KT RELIED ON FLASH?Then you will understand why Flash was defeated by Bisu, Why T1 defeated KT. Yes this is a competitive scene, yes he needs to be prepared, yes flash should be prepared for a snipe. You are refusing to see that this is a TEAM competition though. The coaching staff assumed, and this is a fairly good assumption imo, that flash wouldn't have to except the snipe on aztec. KT probably expected to get at least one kill in the 1st 3 games, ruining the ability for SKT to snipe flash on aztec. Disclaimer: Theorycrafting ^ The point I'm trying to make is, don't be so quick to call flash lazy, he could have spent 2 weeks practicing the wrong games/match-ups.
Let me put it this way.
How many times have Flash beat some from a disadvantage and won? How many unfavored terran maps he has played and won? You were trying to point out it was a BO advantage when or a Map imbalance because KT didn't EXPECT Flash to play 5th set.
It's the 5th set, weather or not it was a s2 only 2 or 1 win, or stats to win 1 game, the Aztec map will still be played. It's predictability. Stats beat Bisu during the 09-10 PL Finals because Bisu was predictable. Flash was predictable during that game. You see no fault in your player/team while blame everything on the map, and the preparation of the opposing team. T1 were very diligent and they were expecting a good fight from KT. Why not blame Action, CH, Stats for their slack off?
Because you are a fanboy. A blind fanboy.
Fantasy won on Aztec against Snow and Stork with great PvTs. If Flash wasn't lazy, shouldn't he have practiced on Aztec for safe measure? You know, COOK UP SOMETHING NEW!?
But why didn't he?
He used the same build he constantly uses. Why did he do that? When they know it's the finals and they should have made preparations in case of a snipe on a P-favored map.
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On April 12 2011 09:26 aimaimaim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 09:11 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 11:59 aimaimaim wrote:On April 11 2011 11:08 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 10:58 Doraemon wrote:On April 11 2011 05:14 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 03:51 dukethegold wrote:On April 11 2011 02:35 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 01:23 aimaimaim wrote:On April 11 2011 00:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:
[quote]
Streaming zealots in PvT isn't precisely the thing to do unless you really know what your opponent is doing.
Even building a couple of zealots, considering that Gate Nex is inferior economically to Rax FE would put him really far behind. Bisu said in an interview days ago he had a counter build. Flash has just been dumb to do exactly what he expected. Bisu knew Flash was gonna Rax FE Bisu knew his zealot micro is great S-class level Bisu can still make goons if he saw a safer build IDK why flash fans (not you :p) insists that it was cheese or it was the map. Why can't they see Flash's fault? Fantasy is 4-1 in this map, with games from stork and snow. And to think this was the finals, flash should have at least prepared for the worst case scenario. And knowing T1, they have build orders for every possible out come, they know how to double their chances of winning. Why wasn't KT prepared? Why was flash unprepared? Flash was under prepared because he had to prepare for everything. Bisu only had to practice vT for a snipe since he has other players to back him up, like fantasy. Flash has to be prepared for pretty much every matchup on the last 4 maps.. Somehow you ignored the fact that SKT had to claw its way to the final while KT sat home looking pretty with very generous amount of practice time. I doubt flash practiced vP on aztec, or thought he had to. That's all I have to say. lol so he spent those extra 2 weeks thinking he wouldn't be sent before set 4? ? He knew he wouldn't be sent out in any of the 1st 3 games, and there was a very slim chance of him playing the 4th. I don't get your point. This is a competitive scene. Flash has to be prepared for the finals, their coaching staff should have made preparations for flash in case of snipe, because there is a 100% that there will be a snipe. If you blame aztec, again, let's compare Flash vs Fantasy then. Fantasy is a 4-1 on Aztec. Why is that? BECAUSE HE WAS PREPARED. Being lazy was Flash's problem, not Bisu's, not T1, not s2's not the map. Accept it, he was out-played by the team. Ask yourself this instead, WHY DID KT RELIED ON FLASH?Then you will understand why Flash was defeated by Bisu, Why T1 defeated KT. Yes this is a competitive scene, yes he needs to be prepared, yes flash should be prepared for a snipe. You are refusing to see that this is a TEAM competition though. The coaching staff assumed, and this is a fairly good assumption imo, that flash wouldn't have to except the snipe on aztec. KT probably expected to get at least one kill in the 1st 3 games, ruining the ability for SKT to snipe flash on aztec. Disclaimer: Theorycrafting ^ The point I'm trying to make is, don't be so quick to call flash lazy, he could have spent 2 weeks practicing the wrong games/match-ups. Let me put it this way. How many times have Flash beat some from a disadvantage and won? How many unfavored terran maps he has played and won? You were trying to point out it was a BO advantage when or a Map imbalance because KT didn't EXPECT Flash to play 5th set. It's the 5th set, weather or not it was a s2 only 2 or 1 win, or stats to win 1 game, the Aztec map will still be played. It's predictability. Stats beat Bisu during the 09-10 PL Finals because Bisu was predictable. Flash was predictable during that game. You see no fault in your player/team while blame everything on the map, and the preparation of the opposing team. T1 were very diligent and they were expecting a good fight from KT. Why not blame Action, CH, Stats for their slack off? Because you are a fanboy. A blind fanboy.Fantasy won on Aztec against Snow and Stork with great PvTs. If Flash wasn't lazy, shouldn't he have practiced on Aztec for safe measure? You know, COOK UP SOMETHING NEW!? But why didn't he? He used the same build he constantly uses. Why did he do that? When they know it's the finals and they should have made preparations in case of a snipe on a P-favored map.
You are disrespectful and hypocritical to say the least. I won't waste anymore of my time on you.
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On April 12 2011 11:11 ibreakurface wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 09:26 aimaimaim wrote:On April 12 2011 09:11 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 11:59 aimaimaim wrote:On April 11 2011 11:08 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 10:58 Doraemon wrote:On April 11 2011 05:14 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 03:51 dukethegold wrote:On April 11 2011 02:35 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 01:23 aimaimaim wrote:
[quote]
Bisu knew Flash was gonna Rax FE
Bisu knew his zealot micro is great S-class level
Bisu can still make goons if he saw a safer build
IDK why flash fans (not you :p) insists that it was cheese or it was the map. Why can't they see Flash's fault?
Fantasy is 4-1 in this map, with games from stork and snow. And to think this was the finals, flash should have at least prepared for the worst case scenario. And knowing T1, they have build orders for every possible out come, they know how to double their chances of winning. Why wasn't KT prepared? Why was flash unprepared? Flash was under prepared because he had to prepare for everything. Bisu only had to practice vT for a snipe since he has other players to back him up, like fantasy. Flash has to be prepared for pretty much every matchup on the last 4 maps.. Somehow you ignored the fact that SKT had to claw its way to the final while KT sat home looking pretty with very generous amount of practice time. I doubt flash practiced vP on aztec, or thought he had to. That's all I have to say. lol so he spent those extra 2 weeks thinking he wouldn't be sent before set 4? ? He knew he wouldn't be sent out in any of the 1st 3 games, and there was a very slim chance of him playing the 4th. I don't get your point. This is a competitive scene. Flash has to be prepared for the finals, their coaching staff should have made preparations for flash in case of snipe, because there is a 100% that there will be a snipe. If you blame aztec, again, let's compare Flash vs Fantasy then. Fantasy is a 4-1 on Aztec. Why is that? BECAUSE HE WAS PREPARED. Being lazy was Flash's problem, not Bisu's, not T1, not s2's not the map. Accept it, he was out-played by the team. Ask yourself this instead, WHY DID KT RELIED ON FLASH?Then you will understand why Flash was defeated by Bisu, Why T1 defeated KT. Yes this is a competitive scene, yes he needs to be prepared, yes flash should be prepared for a snipe. You are refusing to see that this is a TEAM competition though. The coaching staff assumed, and this is a fairly good assumption imo, that flash wouldn't have to except the snipe on aztec. KT probably expected to get at least one kill in the 1st 3 games, ruining the ability for SKT to snipe flash on aztec. Disclaimer: Theorycrafting ^ The point I'm trying to make is, don't be so quick to call flash lazy, he could have spent 2 weeks practicing the wrong games/match-ups. Let me put it this way. How many times have Flash beat some from a disadvantage and won? How many unfavored terran maps he has played and won? You were trying to point out it was a BO advantage when or a Map imbalance because KT didn't EXPECT Flash to play 5th set. It's the 5th set, weather or not it was a s2 only 2 or 1 win, or stats to win 1 game, the Aztec map will still be played. It's predictability. Stats beat Bisu during the 09-10 PL Finals because Bisu was predictable. Flash was predictable during that game. You see no fault in your player/team while blame everything on the map, and the preparation of the opposing team. T1 were very diligent and they were expecting a good fight from KT. Why not blame Action, CH, Stats for their slack off? Because you are a fanboy. A blind fanboy.Fantasy won on Aztec against Snow and Stork with great PvTs. If Flash wasn't lazy, shouldn't he have practiced on Aztec for safe measure? You know, COOK UP SOMETHING NEW!? But why didn't he? He used the same build he constantly uses. Why did he do that? When they know it's the finals and they should have made preparations in case of a snipe on a P-favored map. You are disrespectful and hypocritical to say the least. I won't waste anymore of my time on you.
Because I side with T1? I'm not a really big bisu fan. While you really deny the good thing why T1 won the finals. I don't have against anyone here, just pointing out why you can't accept the fact that KT/Flash was outsmarted by T1. You downplay someones achievement because he beat your player.
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Finally watched all the VODs, highlight of the match was oov's hair for sure
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EPT
