Translator going to sleep. He promises to have great's interview up within 12 hours. Sorry TL
Jaedong “I think I can make the Ro4 easily barring an upset”
- How does it feels to be up 1-0? ▲ Even as I practiced, I knew I could win today. I made a lot of mistakes and didn't play particularly well today, so I'll be sure to play better next week.
- There was a bloodbath at your 11 o' clock natural. ▲ When the Protoss firsted rushed me, I blocked it without much damage so I had an advantage, but I sustained a lot of damage from his next big rush. It was more dangerous than I thought and I knew not to get overconfident. I took a lot of damage but I saved both Hatcheries and a lot of Drones, so I believed that I could win.
- Your ZvP seems shaky lately ▲ It doesn't seem that way when I practice, but I feel I play sloppy in televised games. I think I can play better if I calm down a bit and focus more. The reason that I knew I was going to win this game was because I played so well in practice.
- Any goals for the next game? ▲ In the separated BoX, I think the first game is crucial. I think it will be pretty easy to prepare for next week's matches, and I think I can win barring any unforeseen circumstances.
- Anything to say? ▲ My team's Protosses helped me a lot, and I want to give a shoutout of thanks to Dear.
Hydra “I could win because I focused on my control”
- Feelings on winning a great comeback? ▲ Firstly, I thought the first game would be very important so I'm happy that I won and I knew that I was on a ZvZ streak but I didn't know it was 9 in a row. I think I can be even more confident from now on.
- It was a nailbiting comeback ▲ I had the worst BO luck but I think I got lucky by focusing on my micro.
- Your scourge usage was excellent. ▲ Because I was behind, I thought that scourges were my only chance and I thought that I could win if I used them in conjunction with Zerglings, so I went in aggressively and I think it worked out well.
- Your looks seems to be improving with your game. ▲ I haven't heard that often, but thanks for saying so.(laughs)
- You're holding an advantage in the BoX. ▲ I haven't played too many BoX, but I think I can prepare easily for the following games because I've won the first game. I think it's a boon for me.
- What if you meet Jaedong in the semi-finals? ▲ I just want to focus on the games in front of me. If I were to say something, because it's ZvZ, it wouldn't matter if it's Jaedong.
- Final words? ▲ Thank you for my teammates for helping me practice, and my team is on a losing streak in Winners' League but it's not like there's any internal troubles, so I want to take this chance to say that we'll end our streak soon and start performing well soon.
♡♥♡ZerO ♥♡♥ "The map order is going to help me get into the Ro4"
Translator bias: Zero gets a blurb
On the 20th, "The Queen's Son’ Kim Myung Woon (Woongjin) got the GG from Song Byung Goo (Samsung Electronics) with perfect play in the PDPop MSL 2010 Ro8 Game 1, held at the LOOX HERO center at Moon-Rae Dong,
Kim Myung Woon dominated the game throughout, and said “Stork had very good momentum but what mattered more was how well I was prepared. Because I have the first victory and the map order favors me, I'm confident I can win the series too."
- You succeeded in drawing first blood against Stork. ▲ I was very confident as I prepared and the soundproof sound (I guess they play some internal sound to mute the sound from outside). The sound was so loud that some of the in-game sounds were being muffled, and I think Stork couldn't concentrate because of that so I don't feel completely happy even though I won.
- You rocked the shit out of that dinosaur today You had very good gameplay today ▲ I really liked this build so I wanted to use it, and because it's a BoX, I tried something different.
- You've shown a relative weakness at BoX in the past. ▲ I didn't think that it was a BoX, and I played like I usually do. I'm slowly fixing these weaknesses, so I think I can do well from now on.
- Stork had amazing momentum before your game. ▲ I knew that, but my condition matters more than the opponent's, so if I prepare well, I think I can beat anyone. Of course, this means that I can also lose to anyone on a given day, but I didn't really think about Stork's momentum.
- Who helped you with the strategy? (For those of you who didn't watch, Zero had a great mindfuck strategy. Go watch now!) ▲ Soulkey and Crazy-Hydra helped me from both sides. I chose the concept as Hydralisks but the coaches helped me too, and although it's an individual league, I think I won because everyone helped me.
- Are you confident in your remaining games? ▲ I like the map order, and if I lost today I would have had an uphill battle, but because I won, I'm confident that I can advance.
- Last words? ▲ A few days ago, it was the birthday of Kim Ji-Soo from the office, but I couldn't call and could only text because I had Proleague that day. I'm sorry, and I wish him a belated birthday.
Another awesome OP, thanks Finale. Although I always spam your threads, I want to let you know that your hard work is always appreciated. Much kudos to you, keep up the great work!
I hope I don't fall asleep tonight, but just in case I do, Hydra and Storkuu must win it alllllllllllllllllll-
On January 20 2011 08:59 Spica wrote: Another awesome OP, thanks Finale. Although I always spam your threads, I want to let you know that your hard work is always appreciated. Much kudos to you, keep up the great work!
I hope I don't fall asleep tonight, but just in case I do, Storkuu must win it alllllllllllllllllll-
On January 20 2011 09:18 BisuDagger wrote: Is it possible that I could see the whole right side winning their game tonight/this morning? Anyway, go Toss!
The thing about ZerO is that his style is what Stork hard counters. ZerO don't really try to do some cheesy stuff but just rely on his superior macro to win the game there which usually is REALLY effective against lesser Protoss players and he has the best lategame management plays. But when Stork gets his way without being disrupted and everything is working according to play, he is just unstoppable.
On January 20 2011 10:08 Xiphos wrote: The thing about ZerO is that his style is what Stork hard counters. ZerO don't really try to do some cheesy stuff but just rely on his superior macro to win the game there which usually is REALLY effective against lesser Protoss players and he has the best lategame management plays. But when Stork gets his way without being disrupted and everything is working according to play, he is just unstoppable.
Valid point, but the first thing I thought when I read the first sentence was "stork is known for countering queens?"
He is the underdog, but not THAT much of an underdog. Snow has less of a chance imo.
Really hoping Stork wins this, so he can have a leg up for next week, when he likely(hoping I don't jinx him) will be practicing PvT all the time. Otherwise, Jaedong, don't care, and great to win.
And to all complaints about woe is terran...
Last MSL Ro8: Flash, Fantasy, Sea, Light, ForGG Last MSL Ro4: Flash, Fantasy, Light Last MSL Winner: Flash
I'll go out on a limb and say terrans shouldn't really be complaining about the MSL. Not when protoss hasn't won a SL for 2+ freaking years.
it's really amazing that even though the leagues run maps favoring each race in a cyclic manner, flash managed to keep winning throughout 2010, sometimes being the only terran doing anything.
On January 20 2011 11:08 ggrrg wrote: I just realized that there isn't a single terran in the ro8. When was the last time that happened!?
On January 18 2011 02:23 Crisium wrote: This is the only MSL Ro8 that has ever had 0 Terran players. It is unprecedented.
Last season had 0 Protoss in the Ro8, but this is the first without Terran. In addition, there is only one other MSL Ro8 without a Protoss: Trigem in 2003. Zerg have been in every Ro8.
It's only the third time a race has had no representative in the MSL Ro8, and the first for Terran.
Go! Jae-drum and Hydra! I noticed that Jae has not lost a game since round of 32. Considering bacchus2009 in which he 3:0'ed luxury at the finals, and his opponents to come in this MSL(except stork). SOMETHING M.I.G.H.T. BE POSSIBLE.
On January 20 2011 14:08 flamewheel wrote: I PROMISE I'LL HAVE MSL POST OUT BEFORE GAMES I'M OVERWORKED
ogogogogogogogogogo
On January 20 2011 11:11 baubo wrote: I'll go out on a limb and say terrans shouldn't really be complaining about the MSL. Not when protoss hasn't won a SL for 2+ freaking years.
that's because protoss stork keeps losing to flash/jd whereas the rest of the protoss suck (or in bisu's case, sucked?)
On January 20 2011 15:04 ]343[ wrote: ... the rest of the protoss suck (or in bisu's case, sucked?)
Stats has an AK, Violet got a 3-kill against OZ, including taking out Jaedong, Jaehoon's doing well and took out Fantasy recently, and Snow and Kal are here alongside Stork; all in all, it's a good season to be Protoss
On January 20 2011 11:11 baubo wrote: I'll go out on a limb and say terrans shouldn't really be complaining about the MSL. Not when protoss hasn't won a SL for 2+ freaking years.
that's because protoss stork keeps losing to flash/jd whereas the rest of the protoss suck (or in bisu's case, sucked?)
Not to mention Bisu/Stork got in the way of the rest of the protoss the most during 6 dragons. Stork cockblocked Best in Incruit/Bacchus 08 Bisu cockblocked Jangbi/Free during Clubday (All protoss semifinals anyone?)
Its a shame the rest of the dragons didn't win a single starleague.
Whatever happens JD, go 3hatch muta 5base hydra or play safe. Please whatever you do, do NOT go 3base hive or some weird queen broodling HT snipe shit. Just own that popped collar guy.
On January 20 2011 17:00 purpose wrote: How are the maps decided for each serie and in what order they come? Why arent all series on the same maps in the same order?
Funny how all maps seem so imb in zvp favour but protoss have been destroying zerg latelly.
I so hope stork wins and also Kal. But the important game is tomorrow for Stork.
Maybe Dante's Peak is most ZvP favored of all these, that's what I think. So, JD absolutely should win on it, or he'll be kinda in trouble.
On this map it's easy for Zerg to attack every Protoss expansion, and very easy to hold their own ones with Lurkers. So we can easily have a 4+ vs 2 base situation.
(In that little commercial) Stork: I have confidence against Zergs lately, so I'll do my best. ZerO: *Smug look on face* I'll defeat all Protosses and show them the real power of the Zerg.
On January 20 2011 18:08 Spica wrote: (In that little commercial) Stork: I have confidence against Zergs lately, so I'll do my best. ZerO: *Smug look on face* I'll defeat all Protosses and show them the real power of the Zerg.
(In that little mini before game interview) Jaedong: Blah blah blah I have confidence against Protosses I'm gonna roflstompz them yo *Sleepy blink blink* Snow: Who knows, maybe I might win... It won't be easy, but I still might have a chance :D *Hopeful look*
Snow still applying a lot of pressure with reaver + speedlots but the speedlots cannot get into the base to help out the reaver. Reaver itself is doing pretty well with 14+ kills. Shuttle is in red hp.
Snow has not started a third though while JD looks like he is getting set for hive tech.
HUGE mistake by Snow as his reaver had no scarabs.
Snow kills a gajillion hydras but is still going to lose to 4 base zerg macro. Well, it's not like he didn't have any chances... he just wasted too many. ~_~
Snow really can't afford to lose this third and he is holding out well. He has cleared all the support for the lurkers and now can scarab them from safety.
JD forced to move his lurkers but now he is streaming in reinforcements and his only goal is to snipe the nexus.
Snow has gotten a DT into JD's main and it's racking up the kills and all the drones at the nat are dead
Jaedong definitely got lucky w/ killing that first Reaver. Judging how close it was when Snow made his push, that one extra reaver would've won the game for Snow
On January 20 2011 18:34 blade55555 wrote: I feel like Jaedong just isn't playing as good as he used too. That game seemed very sloppy compared to how he was playing zvp not long ago :/.
Hoping Jaedong can get his zvp in way better shape for if he plays stork bo5!
On January 20 2011 18:32 Piste wrote: wow snow has gained a new fan. he has awesome micro!
I don't agree, Snow mimicked Stork's style PvZ perfectly except that his shuttle + reaver micro is really inferior to Stork's, which cost him the game (rofl at the scarab-less reaver...)
But I agree he put up a much better fight than expected !
It just goes to show how important the first shuttle was.All game Snow was VERY close to getting a good advantage,but all the time it was barely defended.
I don't know how you can recomend this game. Yes, it was full of battles etc. But booth players played so bad. You can expect such play form Snow, but JD...
On January 20 2011 18:34 blade55555 wrote: I feel like Jaedong just isn't playing as good as he used too. That game seemed very sloppy compared to how he was playing zvp not long ago :/.
Hoping Jaedong can get his zvp in way better shape for if he plays stork bo5!
Snow 2 based that very hard (so hard he didn't take a 3rd until his main mined out) in order to get a powerful attack on Jaedong who was taking a quick 4th. Not quite enough though after losing the first reaver.
On January 20 2011 18:34 blade55555 wrote: I feel like Jaedong just isn't playing as good as he used too. That game seemed very sloppy compared to how he was playing zvp not long ago :/.
Hoping Jaedong can get his zvp in way better shape for if he plays stork bo5!
On January 20 2011 18:34 blade55555 wrote: I feel like Jaedong just isn't playing as good as he used too. That game seemed very sloppy compared to how he was playing zvp not long ago :/.
Hoping Jaedong can get his zvp in way better shape for if he plays stork bo5!
that first reaver snipe was so clutch. but then again, with snow's micro, i don't think that reaver wouldn't done much even if it arrived in JD's base safely
On January 20 2011 18:37 popzags wrote: Imagine you watched this game without knowing who's playing...
...would you guess Zerg player was Jaedong?
Because I wouldn't.
so true, JD used to smash tosses, now its only a shadow of his former self. However the game was nice, low saturated bases with no high tech units, just rolled over poor Snow. Overall a good game, but I wish JD's play be more confident
What a fun game. It seemed like every 5 mins that one player would win for sure but 10 seconds later it was reversed. These kinds of game reversals simply don't happen in sc2 (
Looked like Snow virtually went all-in from 2 bases against Jaedong's 4. Made it look closer than it was at times I think, Jaedong just had to hold on long enough and deny Snow's 3rd, which he did (barely).
On January 20 2011 18:39 yesplz wrote: What a fun game. It seemed like every 5 mins that one player would win for sure but 10 seconds later it was reversed. These kinds of game reversals simply don't happen in sc2 (
Yes it does but this is not the place to start that conversation. Let's just enjoy both games as they are!
On January 20 2011 18:40 Ryo wrote: Barely any ground army for JD when Snow's first wave of units attacked. I really don't like the way JD is playing ZvP these days.
Scourges to counter mass sair, mutas to snipe HT/reaver?
On January 20 2011 18:37 popzags wrote: Imagine you watched this game without knowing who's playing...
...would you guess Zerg player was Jaedong?
Because I wouldn't.
so true, JD used to smash tosses, now its only a shadow of his former self
I felt he was in control the whole time. He was on 4 base snow on 2. He knew he wasn't meant to win the battles but rather to limit economic damage.
Exactly. All he needed to do was defend. And defend he did. Snow was basically all-in for the majority of the game. The expo was his last ditch effort to get back into a lost game. That and that successful DT :|
On January 20 2011 18:37 popzags wrote: Imagine you watched this game without knowing who's playing...
...would you guess Zerg player was Jaedong?
Because I wouldn't.
so true, JD used to smash tosses, now its only a shadow of his former self
I felt he was in control the whole time. He was on 4 base snow on 2. He knew he wasn't meant to win the battles but rather to limit economic damage.
I think most of the tension came because of 2 base toss attack, with 3 up it wouldn't be so powerfull, but JD always walks the line, I do seriously hope that his "in control" will not lead him to silly losses, the way it did in PL
On January 20 2011 18:40 doothegee wrote: Commentators calling Hydra and Calm Zergs #2 and #3.
Initial thoughts: (1) Noone likes Woongjin (2) I miss Effort
Man I miss EffOrt too. Kid was so good and I felt he still had a way to go until peaking. I think he could have taken 1-2 more titles if he had continued on. So sad that he retired.
On January 20 2011 18:37 popzags wrote: Imagine you watched this game without knowing who's playing...
...would you guess Zerg player was Jaedong?
Because I wouldn't.
so true, JD used to smash tosses, now its only a shadow of his former self
I felt he was in control the whole time. He was on 4 base snow on 2. He knew he wasn't meant to win the battles but rather to limit economic damage.
I think most of the tension came because of 2 base toss attack, with 3 up it wouldn't be so powerfull, but JD always walks the line, I do seriously hope that his "in control" will not lead him to silly losses, the way it did in PL
Absolutely Snow opted to slam down additional gateways rather than an expo for a very strong 2 base push.
On January 20 2011 18:37 popzags wrote: Imagine you watched this game without knowing who's playing...
...would you guess Zerg player was Jaedong?
Because I wouldn't.
so true, JD used to smash tosses, now its only a shadow of his former self
I felt he was in control the whole time. He was on 4 base snow on 2. He knew he wasn't meant to win the battles but rather to limit economic damage.
Exactly. All he needed to do was defend. And defend he did. Snow was basically all-in for the majority of the game. The expo was his last ditch effort to get back into a lost game. That and that successful DT :|
Well, you have a point indeed. I was just referring to JD's typical style of agressive, harass-oriented play. This time, a Protoss player was bold enough to force him into defence by doing kind of (semi?) all-in. Gonna give props to Snow, even though he probably asks himself now what would happen if he could save that Nexus.
On January 20 2011 19:15 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Roffles, dude, wtf... I wanna see those NBA highlights. Don't torture me with their audio if you aren't gonna show us those Griffin dunks, man!
On January 20 2011 19:15 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Roffles, dude, wtf... I wanna see those NBA highlights. Don't torture me with their audio if you aren't gonna show us those Griffin dunks, man!
It's his stream, so don't complain
I actually wanted to see them too T____T sounded soo good
Would not be too surprised to see Zero win tonight. Stork should be more focused on his Bo5 in the OSL tomorrow. Depends a lot on how well Zero plays, he's always been inconsistent, sometimes playing near S-Class level and sometimes playing terrible.
On January 20 2011 19:09 Goragoth wrote: Hydra is looking seriously beastly in ZvZ right now. Might even give Jaedong a run for his money should they meet in the semis.
On January 20 2011 19:13 Sabu113 wrote: Wait. waaiit
Kara broke up? WTF?! How is this not its own thread.
Back to point. Map seems to be zerg favored, anything worth noting besides that?
WHAT AFSD KLJFSA
Lol, the Korean Music Discussion thread exists for a reason. Initially the four excluding Gyuri were going to leave, and now Hara's changed her position and is staying as well after talking with DSP.
Umm... Go STORK!
The top two Stork fan spots are taken by Vuvuzela guy and Daniel =]
On January 20 2011 19:13 Sabu113 wrote: Wait. waaiit
Kara broke up? WTF?! How is this not its own thread.
Back to point. Map seems to be zerg favored, anything worth noting besides that?
WHAT AFSD KLJFSA
Lol, the Korean Music Discussion thread exists for a reason. Initially the four excluding Gyuri were going to leave, and now Hara's staying as well after talking with DSP.
Umm... Go STORK!
I haven't seen anything proving this, but the #1 search term on Naver today was "구하라 번복", which translates into "Goo hara taking her words back" (Can't think of the specific at 2:19) So I guess she's leaving DSP too.
On January 20 2011 19:13 Sabu113 wrote: Wait. waaiit
Kara broke up? WTF?! How is this not its own thread.
Back to point. Map seems to be zerg favored, anything worth noting besides that?
WHAT AFSD KLJFSA
Lol, the Korean Music Discussion thread exists for a reason. Initially the four excluding Gyuri were going to leave, and now Hara's staying as well after talking with DSP.
Umm... Go STORK!
I haven't seen anything proving this, but the #1 search term on Naver today was "구하라 번복", which translates into "Goo hara taking her words back" (Can't think of the specific at 2:19) So I guess she's leaving DSP too.
GO ZERO
Taking her words back refers to her choice to leave. It's not chosen to stay-> takes it back and choses to leave, but was going to leave -> takes it back and choses to stay.
LOL they turned up the soundproof-thingy because Stork fans are too loud.
Zero = the vibration Stork = T_T Zero = It's pretty serious(ack don't know how to translate, basically he's talking about all the cheering outside the booth) Stork = the chair Stork = shaking Stork = soundproof speaker
Another shuttle dies and Zero is just flanking Stork everywhere. Stork doing a great job though and cleaning up a lot of lurkers but the reaver finally dies and Stork is down to straight goons now.
Well played by zero, but how should toss handle that? Its impossible to scout that the hydra bust was a fake and that he would expand to a 4th. If stork would not have put up cannons he could have just massed hydra to bust, now he did and zero could get away with an advantag that was just to huge to handle. Though losing that first reaver did not help.
still so hard. Hope stork does better tomorrow, would be such a epic fail if he gets knocked out of both MSL and OSL.
On January 20 2011 19:40 purpose wrote: Well played by zero, but how should toss handle that? Its impossible to scout that the hydra bust was a fake and that he would expand to a 4th. If stork would not have put up cannons he could have just massed hydra to bust, now he did and zero could get away with an advantag that was just to huge to handle. Though losing that first reaver did not help.
still so hard. Hope stork does better tomorrow, would be such a epic fail if he gets knocked out of both MSL and OSL.
one thing he could've done was not lose the Shuttle/Reavers so that he could have a retardedly strong push (even that was a little iffy tho)
New poll since it was correctly pointed out that the previous poll, despite a little humor, would spoil the game. Please cast a vote here so that the game still receives a decent recommendation. Thanks to doothegee for noting my oversight.
Poll: ZerO vs Stork: Would you recommend game 1?
Yes (59)
89%
No (7)
11%
66 total votes
Your vote: ZerO vs Stork: Would you recommend game 1?
On January 20 2011 19:43 Drazzzt wrote: What about the corsair? I mean was it that late to not scout the fake (can't remember). And usually u can also see it looking at the drone saturation.
Yes, I thought something was up as soon as I saw Zero producing only drones from his 3rd and many drones in main. Zero played really well. But it's just the first game of a bo5, Stork fighting !
Nicely played by zero. I feel Stork's scouting wasn't very well done. If he had scouted Zero's lair timing and 4th base timing, he might've canceled some cannons in time. Also, the Chinese commentator noted that Stork should've snuck out a zealot at first occasion to Zero's 3rd, both to harass and to scout. Which I strongly agree.
Basically, Stork lost due to his horrible scouting.
Looked to me like he let Stork scout the hydras on purpose. He moved his lings out of the way and left the hydra on his ramp even though he had a ling chasing the scouting probe all the way. Puts Protoss in a tough spot, if he doesn't commit to cannons he runs a serious risk of being busted.
On January 20 2011 19:43 Drazzzt wrote: What about the corsair? I mean was it that late to not scout the fake (can't remember). And usually u can also see it looking at the drone saturation.
I dont think stork knew about 4th so even drone saturation was dull....anyways amazing game by zero
On January 20 2011 19:46 Goragoth wrote: Looked to me like he let Stork scout the hydras on purpose. He moved his lings out of the way and left the hydra on his ramp even though he had a ling chasing the scouting probe all the way. Puts Protoss in a tough spot, if he doesn't commit to cannons he runs a serious risk of being busted.
Yeah, I think so too. Zero presented a trap and Stork just walked into it.
I agree that it's hard, but not impossible, to tell that the Z opponent is not committed to Hydra Bust by looking at drone saturation/production.
But it IS difficult.
Personally, I would commit less to static cannon defense and more towards a proactive goon counter - even if the bust doesn't come, you have a sizable force with which to go on the offense with.
However, Stork went for a fairly greedy build with the Forge --> Nexus, so he does deserve a bit of blame.
On January 20 2011 19:49 Sumsi wrote: well I guess that happens if you can't harass the zerg you can't handle the crap he throws at you in the long run
in SC2 that would be a game imbalance that needs to be fixed, haha
Well in the same sense if you can't beat a Protoss and let him get to Reaver-archon-templar ball in the end...
I think this is were stork will suffer for being in bot MSL and OSL. 2 bo5 series with alot of different maps vs two different players is going to be to hard.
I fear that stork might slump out of both due to this :-(
It's hard being in both leagues ... just because Flash made it look doable doesn't mean it is. There's a reason why only two players have ever won both titles simultaneously and only one player (Flash) has done it when the two leagues were actually running at basically the same time.
Stork fans need to lower their expectations - I'd be thrilled with even just one title if I were one of them. He could very well walk away with an OSL silver and an MSL ro8 exit.
On January 20 2011 19:49 hauton wrote: I agree that it's hard, but not impossible, to tell that the Z opponent is not committed to Hydra Bust by looking at drone saturation/production.
But it IS difficult.
Personally, I would commit less to static cannon defense and more towards a proactive goon counter - even if the bust doesn't come, you have a sizable force with which to go on the offense with.
However, Stork went for a fairly greedy build with the Forge --> Nexus, so he does deserve a bit of blame.
Stork was going for Sair/reaver of 1 gateway . No way can he counter even a small amount of hydras with 1 gate if he doesn't make cannons .
On January 20 2011 19:49 hauton wrote: I agree that it's hard, but not impossible, to tell that the Z opponent is not committed to Hydra Bust by looking at drone saturation/production.
But it IS difficult.
Personally, I would commit less to static cannon defense and more towards a proactive goon counter - even if the bust doesn't come, you have a sizable force with which to go on the offense with.
However, Stork went for a fairly greedy build with the Forge --> Nexus, so he does deserve a bit of blame.
Stork was going for Sair/reaver of 1 gateway . No way can he counter even a small amount of hydras with 1 gate if he doesn't make cannons .
Oh most def - he needs cannons. Even with all the goons in the world, the cannons are good for simcity.
What he didn't need to do is commit to 6+ cannons upon seeing 3 hydras.
On January 20 2011 19:52 darktreb wrote: Beautiful game by Zero.
It's hard being in both leagues ... just because Flash made it look doable doesn't mean it is. There's a reason why only two players have ever won both titles simultaneously and only one player (Flash) has done it when the two leagues were actually running at basically the same time.
Stork fans need to lower their expectations - I'd be thrilled with even just one title if I were one of them. He could very well walk away with an OSL silver and an MSL ro8 exit.
Nada won both leagues simultaneously. Curiously enough, both of Flash and Nada's dual wins were vs the same zerg in both finals( Chojja/Jaedong)
On January 20 2011 19:41 flamewheel wrote: Wow Stork didn't cancel those zealots...
The resources are refunded when the building dies.
Canceling only applies to unfinished buildings.
wtf are you serious
I'm gonna have to test it out
Yeah same o_O Never knew that.
Canceling units will refund. If you don't cancel and building is lost u lose that cash.
i just tested it out
i had a gateway w/ 3 zealots queued up, attacked w/ 12 zealots, stopped all mining
got a bunch of money back o_o
what, I played Protoss for 6 years and didn't know that ? Holy shit. I assume I don't need to cancel the forge upgrade when hydras focus fire on the forge :o Damn !
On January 20 2011 19:41 flamewheel wrote: Wow Stork didn't cancel those zealots...
The resources are refunded when the building dies.
Canceling only applies to unfinished buildings.
wtf are you serious
I'm gonna have to test it out
Yeah same o_O Never knew that.
Canceling units will refund. If you don't cancel and building is lost u lose that cash.
Actually I might have spoken too soon. I know canceling units are refunded but you get back money from qeued units if the building dies, sry i havent slept all night
edit: either way you gain that money back faster, to use for other stuff, if you cancel as soon as you can see the outcome. So I wouldn't recommend that.
On January 20 2011 19:41 flamewheel wrote: Wow Stork didn't cancel those zealots...
The resources are refunded when the building dies.
Canceling only applies to unfinished buildings.
wtf are you serious
I'm gonna have to test it out
Yeah same o_O Never knew that.
Canceling units will refund. If you don't cancel and building is lost u lose that cash.
i just tested it out
i had a gateway w/ 3 zealots queued up, attacked w/ 12 zealots, stopped all mining
got a bunch of money back o_o
what, I played Protoss for 6 years and didn't know that ? Holy shit. I assume I don't need to cancel the forge upgrade when hydras focus fire on the forge :o Damn !
I'm definitely going to do a thorough testing tomorrow since I have nothing better to do lol
On January 20 2011 19:52 darktreb wrote: Beautiful game by Zero.
It's hard being in both leagues ... just because Flash made it look doable doesn't mean it is. There's a reason why only two players have ever won both titles simultaneously and only one player (Flash) has done it when the two leagues were actually running at basically the same time.
Stork fans need to lower their expectations - I'd be thrilled with even just one title if I were one of them. He could very well walk away with an OSL silver and an MSL ro8 exit.
Nada won both leagues simultaneously. Curiously enough, both of Flash and Nada's dual wins were vs the same zerg in both finals( Chojja/Jaedong)
I thought someone said back then the two finals were a month apart?
As a stork fan I have always just hoped for one gold, but atm I am worried that he wont even get to a final.
When Flash won both MSL and OSL he also had pretty decent backup in terms of terran favoured maps. Stork has to play against maps that are favouring zerg alot.
On January 20 2011 20:02 purpose wrote: As a stork fan I have always just hoped for one gold, but atm I am worried that he wont even get to a final.
When Flash won both MSL and OSL he also had pretty decent backup in terms of terran favoured maps. Stork has to play against maps that are favouring zerg alot.
he already got one gold probably going to get another if he can beat modesty..
On January 20 2011 20:12 Fenrax wrote: Well, it is the Zergmap MSL. 3 ZvP, 1ZvZ and not a single map with a P winrate of over 45% (in all best of 5s, not only today).
You want your ZvZ, ZvZ semis, you get them.
come on, all the Z's (except mayyyyyybe jd (!!!) ) played quite well...
Some good games tonight. I still think Stork and Kal will make it, though Zero is probably more of a threat than Great. Maybe I'm way off the mark and it'll be another swarm MSL...
Great knew he won after destroying the third and securing his 5th. Ever since then hes just been fucking around with queens and dark swarm with hydras...
Let me use Starwars references to predict how Progaming will go
A New Protoss Hope (Bisu/Stork domination, Protoss allkills, Protoss not doing shitty overall) The Swarm Strikes Back (starting now lolol) Return of the Terran (???)
great played outstanding - I would love to hear what his apm was, because mechanically he was out of this world.
Supermacroing off 4gas hive while microing defilers, queens and several fronts of attack while harassing the 3rd with lings and moving drones to his 5th - sublime.
On January 20 2011 20:12 5unrise wrote: great tidings. THE AGE OF THE ZERG HAS FINALLY ARRIVED AGAIN
fixed
Go drown in ur 2004 VODS u terran $%#@
I'm referring to the days of Battle Royale and mid-2009. Avalon MSL and Bacchus OSL were both ZvZ finals, and each semifinals had 3 zerg 1 terran...
On January 20 2011 20:15 ArvickHero wrote: Let me use Starwars references to predict how Progaming will go
A New Protoss Hope (Bisu/Stork domination, Protoss allkills, Protoss not doing shitty overall) The Swarm Strikes Back (starting now lolol) Return of the Terran (???)Flash
The mapmakers were like ''Let's even the playing field between Flash and Jaedong a little so the finals are a bit more interesting this year''. That idea backfired. ZvZ+ZvZ incoming.
On January 20 2011 20:15 hauton wrote: great played outstanding - I would love to hear what his apm was, because mechanically he was out of this world.
Supermacroing off 4gas hive while microing defilers, queens and several fronts of attack while harassing the 3rd with lings and moving drones to his 5th - sublime.
great's battle micro seemed pretty bad to me tbh, if the game were a bit more conventional I'd say Kal might've won that
Wow thats a lot of votes for Stork vs Zero. i thought stork played terribly... he lost what 2 shuttles 2 reavers for nothing? Zero played flawlessly but felt it was more 1 players failiure.
On January 20 2011 20:15 ArvickHero wrote: Let me use Starwars references to predict how Progaming will go
A New Protoss Hope (Bisu/Stork domination, Protoss allkills, Protoss not doing shitty overall) The Swarm Strikes Back (starting now lolol) Return of the Terran (???)
If this is true then "hope" was pretty much crushed in just a matter of few weeks.
On January 20 2011 20:17 ShadeR wrote: Wow thats a lot of votes for Stork vs Zero. i thought stork played terribly... he lost what 2 shuttles 2 reavers for nothing? Zero played flawlessly but felt it was more 1 players failiure.
I don't think it was for nothing LOL
the first reaver snipe was absolutely beautiful. stork knew zero saw the shuttle with his zergling, but still persisted in going in. he didn't see anything. then BAM HYDRAS
in the battle near the 3rd, stork's reavers paid for themselves.
On January 20 2011 20:15 ArvickHero wrote: Let me use Starwars references to predict how Progaming will go
A New Protoss Hope (Bisu/Stork domination, Protoss allkills, Protoss not doing shitty overall) The Swarm Strikes Back (starting now lolol) Return of the Terran (???)Flash
fixed for you too!
hey who knows it could be someone like Baby or even jyj who rises to lead O_o
On January 20 2011 20:16 Elroi wrote: tbh both kal and stork fucked up quite bad. other than that the games didn't look impossible.
How did Kal fuck up?
His only real mistake IMO was committing WAAAAY too many cannons (so many he had to destroy them afterwards) and losing a bunch of sairs to scourge.
His overproduction of DTs is questionable - even at the time when he was slaughtering Hydras left-right-centre, he didn't need to make 6 or 8 of them and send 4 on an unproductive suicide run to 5'oclock.
On January 20 2011 20:16 Holgerius wrote: The mapmakers were like ''Let's even the playing field between Flash and Jaedong a little so the finals are a bit more interesting this year''. That idea backfired. ZvZ+ZvZ incoming.
Well, Flash lost to two terrans lol. That ain't mapmaking's fault.
On January 20 2011 20:17 ShadeR wrote: Wow thats a lot of votes for Stork vs Zero. i thought stork played terribly... he lost what 2 shuttles 2 reavers for nothing? Zero played flawlessly but felt it was more 1 players failiure.
The only reason for that 1 player's failure was because of Zero's play. The burrowed hydras sniping that first reaver, and the timing on the spore colony to counter the DTs + hydras intercepting the shuttle.
On January 20 2011 20:17 ShadeR wrote: Wow thats a lot of votes for Stork vs Zero. i thought stork played terribly... he lost what 2 shuttles 2 reavers for nothing? Zero played flawlessly but felt it was more 1 players failiure.
Absolutely.This game had some good features(Zero taking shuttle to burrowd hydras and faking hydra all-in) but one player was just better than the other.It was not an even game.
On January 20 2011 20:17 ShadeR wrote: Wow thats a lot of votes for Stork vs Zero. i thought stork played terribly... he lost what 2 shuttles 2 reavers for nothing? Zero played flawlessly but felt it was more 1 players failiure.
Nah he was forced to lose the first reaver. Zero pretty much played that game perfectly to his tune and not much Stork could have done about it.
On January 20 2011 20:16 Holgerius wrote: The mapmakers were like ''Let's even the playing field between Flash and Jaedong a little so the finals are a bit more interesting this year''. That idea backfired. ZvZ+ZvZ incoming.
We had 3 terrans in ro4 last season. Would have been 4 if it wasn't for JD.
On January 20 2011 20:15 hauton wrote: great played outstanding - I would love to hear what his apm was, because mechanically he was out of this world.
Supermacroing off 4gas hive while microing defilers, queens and several fronts of attack while harassing the 3rd with lings and moving drones to his 5th - sublime.
great's battle micro seemed pretty bad to me tbh, if the game were a bit more conventional I'd say Kal might've won that
I'm pretty sure great was just messing around there. After Kal made 242352879 cannons and couldn't kill great's 3rd, that was already gg.
Yeah, no Beesuit and this happens. And seriously why didn't they just make a season of Protoss favored maps ? They just rotate from Zerg maps to Terran maps then back to Zerg maps for each new season, doesn't make sense at all.
On January 20 2011 20:16 Holgerius wrote: The mapmakers were like ''Let's even the playing field between Flash and Jaedong a little so the finals are a bit more interesting this year''. That idea backfired. ZvZ+ZvZ incoming.
We had 3 terrans in ro4 last season. Would have been 4 if it wasn't for JD.
And we also had sick semifinals because of it. ZvZ semifinals will be zzzzzzzz.
I dont think stork fucked up that bad today. It was hard to scout that fake and with his 1 gate into reaver sair build it was to hard to push out in time to secure a 3ed or harass. pvz is just damn hard on these maps.
Being a protoss fan is overall mostly sad. I am still hoping for some light but it looks kinda bad atm. all zerg semi would be horrible and and terran at least have a player in the OSL final....again. if he play a zerg then it will be all dark for protoss.
On January 20 2011 20:15 hauton wrote: great played outstanding - I would love to hear what his apm was, because mechanically he was out of this world.
Supermacroing off 4gas hive while microing defilers, queens and several fronts of attack while harassing the 3rd with lings and moving drones to his 5th - sublime.
great's battle micro seemed pretty bad to me tbh, if the game were a bit more conventional I'd say Kal might've won that
How so?
Aside from Swarming Hydras vs Archon/Zealot (when the game was already over), I really enjoyed Great's play. Kal on the other hand had HTs being sniped all game long, and lost a ton of corsairs over the duration of the match, the most troubling of which was when he basically passive-moved his entire corsair force the entire length of the map without looking and ate about 8 scourges.
On January 20 2011 20:16 Holgerius wrote: The mapmakers were like ''Let's even the playing field between Flash and Jaedong a little so the finals are a bit more interesting this year''. That idea backfired. ZvZ+ZvZ incoming.
Well, Flash lost to two terrans lol. That ain't mapmaking's fault.
Yeah, but now he isn't around to take out mediocre zergs along the way.
On January 20 2011 20:17 ShadeR wrote: Wow thats a lot of votes for Stork vs Zero. i thought stork played terribly... he lost what 2 shuttles 2 reavers for nothing? Zero played flawlessly but felt it was more 1 players failiure.
I don't think it was for nothing LOL
the first reaver snipe was absolutely beautiful. stork knew zero saw the shuttle with his zergling, but still persisted in going in. he didn't see anything. then BAM HYDRAS
in the battle near the 3rd, stork's reavers paid for themselves.
i watched vod again. Stork lost his first reaver, saved the shuttle then a few minutes later dt dropped and then lost the shuttle again and i suspect the shuttle was filled with a new reaver.
On January 20 2011 20:17 ShadeR wrote: Wow thats a lot of votes for Stork vs Zero. i thought stork played terribly... he lost what 2 shuttles 2 reavers for nothing? Zero played flawlessly but felt it was more 1 players failiure.
I don't think it was for nothing LOL
the first reaver snipe was absolutely beautiful. stork knew zero saw the shuttle with his zergling, but still persisted in going in. he didn't see anything. then BAM HYDRAS
in the battle near the 3rd, stork's reavers paid for themselves.
i watched vod again. Stork lost his first reaver, saved the shuttle then a few minutes later dt dropped and then lost the shuttle again and i suspect the shuttle was filled with a new reaver.
Inside the shuttle was a HT that he was going to storm drop with
On January 20 2011 20:17 ShadeR wrote: Wow thats a lot of votes for Stork vs Zero. i thought stork played terribly... he lost what 2 shuttles 2 reavers for nothing? Zero played flawlessly but felt it was more 1 players failiure.
I don't think it was for nothing LOL
the first reaver snipe was absolutely beautiful. stork knew zero saw the shuttle with his zergling, but still persisted in going in. he didn't see anything. then BAM HYDRAS
in the battle near the 3rd, stork's reavers paid for themselves.
i watched vod again. Stork lost his first reaver, saved the shuttle then a few minutes later dt dropped and then lost the shuttle again and i suspect the shuttle was filled with a new reaver.
when they were showing the rep I'm pretty sure I saw a HT wireframe in the shuttle before it died
On January 20 2011 20:15 hauton wrote: great played outstanding - I would love to hear what his apm was, because mechanically he was out of this world.
Supermacroing off 4gas hive while microing defilers, queens and several fronts of attack while harassing the 3rd with lings and moving drones to his 5th - sublime.
great's battle micro seemed pretty bad to me tbh, if the game were a bit more conventional I'd say Kal might've won that
How so?
Aside from Swarming Hydras vs Archon/Zealot (when the game was already over), I really enjoyed Great's play. Kal on the other hand had HTs being sniped all game long, and lost a ton of corsairs over the duration of the match, the most troubling of which was when he basically passive-moved his entire corsair force the entire length of the map without looking and ate about 8 scourges.
I dont think that really relates to my point about Great's not so great battle micro. His Zergling raids/harass were really good but that was pretty much it for me imo. His battle micro on a whole was never really topnotch, and if Kal did the Splash Toss push or the more standard HT/Goon timing push, I'd bet that Great would roll over and die
Hum, I'm wqorried for Dinotoss in this league : there's not enough delay for him to prepare between game. Was sure it would be a hard match today, because he would obviously prepare for tomorow's game, which means different maps and keeping some builds. Will he be prepared next week if he has his finals two days after ? I'm not sure, maybe he will have some leftover builds from his Bo5 against Modesty, and enough confidence in his PvT so that he prepares less. But with Zero playing well, and coming with nice builds, it's going to be tough. Plus the maps are not exactly good.
Well at least the maps are alittle better in the OSL then MSL right? I think it was more even win % last time I checked.
Stork just has to take tomorrows semi. If protoss do not have a final contender in one of the two leuages, it will be disapointing. Watching tvz all the time is not all that fun for a protoss fan.
On January 20 2011 20:16 Holgerius wrote: The mapmakers were like ''Let's even the playing field between Flash and Jaedong a little so the finals are a bit more interesting this year''. That idea backfired. ZvZ+ZvZ incoming.
Well, not entirely the mapmakers fault. Who knew Forgg would retire like that and Light got knocked out by Stork who was placed in his group by Flash.
Zero vs Stork game is recommended because of strategy Zero used. I saw zergs trying to fake 3hatch hydras into mass drones many times, but this is the first time when I see it actually working.
This might be the game of reference for a new strategy used by zergs in the future.
Also the way Zero accommodated (or predicted) to Stork build was nice. Stork looked like he never had a chance.
On January 20 2011 20:29 StylishVODs wrote: Unless maps are seriously imbalanced, a great player should overcome that.
Stork is human, I won't pretend otherwise :p In fact, I just don't think he is the kind of guy to take dual gold. I like him for many other reasons. But hey, I always hope he will prove me wrong.
On January 20 2011 20:30 DarkMatter_ wrote: It's a Bo5...why are people acting like Stork is already eliminated? I still think he'll beat Zero.
I believe it's because he was pretty much raped. However I agree with you, this game was pretty much decided after he threw up all those cannons and lost that first reaver/shuttle. But Zero did play really well though.
On January 20 2011 20:31 Yodo wrote: Well, Light is terribad in TvP so, it is hard for him to advance in starleague (should avoid strong tosses on the way)
This map imba talk is ridiculous. The #1 and the #2 TvZs got themselves eliminated by Terrans and Stork. The other potential TvZ candidates are fOrGG, Midas, Sea and Fantasy. fOrGG retired, Midas got Jaedong'd, Sea got himself killed by Action and ZerO, and Fantasy is Soulkey's bitch.
Of course it was not the map that lost stork the game vs zero. And good players should be able to handle bad maps. Still nobody can deny that maps can make it alot harder or easier for that matter depending on what side your on.
I hope stork put focus on tomorrow. The maps are more or less balanced it seem and hopefully he can perform better then today.
MSL just seem destined to be a zvz fest so OSL is the protoss hope.
Cmon, statistic can be applied only to large amount of data. How you can name Dante's Peak Z favored if only 3(!) PvZ has been played here. ZvP: 2-1 (66.7%) - no way you can say smth about map balance from this.
Cmon, statistic can be applied only to large amount of data. How you can name Dante's Peak Z favored if only 3(!) PvZ has been played here. ZvP: 2-1 (66.7%) - no way you can say smth about map balance from this.
So, what's up with your statement that this season is full of P maps?
Lol at the guy who claim that this season is full of P map, this is the swarm season right from the start and many pro-gamer (Zerg player included) said that maps favor Zerg many times, do you think you have more knowledge than progamers or something ?
Of course there's no way to make excuses for a loss based on map imbalance (unless it's beesuit's loss), but they should make a season with maps really favor Protoss over both Zerg and Terran (like last season for Terran and this season for Zerg), just to be fair since they just rotate from Zerg maps to Terran maps and back to Zerg maps. The circle should be like Zerg->Terran->Protoss->Zerg->....
On January 20 2011 20:57 kamikami wrote: Lol at the guy who claim that this season is full of P map, this is the swarm season right from the start and many pro-gamer (Zerg player included) said that maps favor Zerg many times, do you think you have more knowledge than progamers or something ?
Of course there's no way to make excuses for a loss based on map imbalance (unless it's beesuit's loss), but they should make a season with maps really favor Protoss over both Zerg and Terran (like last season for Terran and this season for Zerg), just to be fair since they just rotate from Zerg maps to Terran maps and back to Zerg maps. The circle should be like Zerg->Terran->Protoss->Zerg->....
Or they can just play every single game on Fighting Spirit.
On January 20 2011 20:57 kamikami wrote: Lol at the guy who claim that this season is full of P map, this is the swarm season right from the start and many pro-gamer (Zerg player included) said that maps favor Zerg many times, do you think you have more knowledge than progamers or something ?
Of course there's no way to make excuses for a loss based on map imbalance (unless it's beesuit's loss), but they should make a season with maps really favor Protoss over both Zerg and Terran (like last season for Terran and this season for Zerg), just to be fair since they just rotate from Zerg maps to Terran maps and back to Zerg maps. The circle should be like Zerg->Terran->Protoss->Zerg->....
Or they can just play every single game on Fighting Spirit.
Why did they have to remove it, so balanced and fun.
On January 20 2011 19:39 okum wrote: Zero had much better macro than Stork this game. He's clearly ahead in the metagame.
Can people on this site stop assuming that progamers randomly lose their ability to macro half-decently every time they see that one side has more units than the other?
Stork's macro had little to do with the results of that game.
On January 20 2011 19:39 okum wrote: Zero had much better macro than Stork this game. He's clearly ahead in the metagame.
Can people on this site stop assuming that progamers randomly lose their ability to macro half-decently every time they see that one side has more units than the other?
Stork's macro had little to do with the results of that game.
I do believe that was sarcasm, as macro and metagame are completely unrelated concepts. I assume okum meant zerg macro imba or ZvP imba or something along the lines of zerg imba.
On January 20 2011 20:57 kamikami wrote: Lol at the guy who claim that this season is full of P map, this is the swarm season right from the start and many pro-gamer (Zerg player included) said that maps favor Zerg many times, do you think you have more knowledge than progamers or something ?
Of course there's no way to make excuses for a loss based on map imbalance (unless it's beesuit's loss), but they should make a season with maps really favor Protoss over both Zerg and Terran (like last season for Terran and this season for Zerg), just to be fair since they just rotate from Zerg maps to Terran maps and back to Zerg maps. The circle should be like Zerg->Terran->Protoss->Zerg->....
Or they can just play every single game on Fighting Spirit.
It's true that if we gather 5 most balanced maps of BW history to play in every Starleague the games will be very fair but strategies won't evolve without new maps.
Basically the whole PvZ meta game would not have evolved without Destination, the same applies to Terran mech vs Zerg.
On January 20 2011 19:39 okum wrote: Zero had much better macro than Stork this game. He's clearly ahead in the metagame.
Can people on this site stop assuming that progamers randomly lose their ability to macro half-decently every time they see that one side has more units than the other?
Stork's macro had little to do with the results of that game.
On January 20 2011 21:11 kuroshiroi wrote: I do believe that was sarcasm, as macro and metagame are completely unrelated concepts. I assume okum meant zerg macro imba or ZvP imba or something along the lines of zerg imba.
I did wonder about the "metagame" thing, but it's not just that comment, I see it all the damn time in LR threads. See: Any time best wins a game.
On January 20 2011 21:15 Yodo wrote: 2 kamikami Lol at you. how you want to balance map for PvT and PvZ so toss will be favored in both?
Maps with 2 back expos and one natural (like central plain). There's 1001 way to make maps favor one race over 2 others, so what's your point ? Did you read my post or not ? I said that they should include Protoss maps into the current circle of Zerg maps -> Terran maps -> Zerg maps -> ..., I didn't say anything about balance or something, cause there is rarely a season that is balanced, so it's just easier to rotate the map favor among 3 races.
This season was intended to bring favor to P (you cant create central plains without warm feelings to the tosses). You can see a lot of map with open center as well. Though, it mostly favor PvT not PvZ.
On January 20 2011 21:47 Yodo wrote: This season was intended to bring favor to P (you cant create central plains without warm feelings to the tosses). You can see a lot of map with open center as well. Though, it mostly favor PvT not PvZ.
Central Plain wasn't used in any Starleague and it has already been removed from the map pool altogether.
On January 20 2011 20:16 Holgerius wrote: The mapmakers were like ''Let's even the playing field between Flash and Jaedong a little so the finals are a bit more interesting this year''. That idea backfired. ZvZ+ZvZ incoming.
We had 3 terrans in ro4 last season. Would have been 4 if it wasn't for JD.
...and it was one of the best damn semifinals in ages. Both Flash vs Fantasy and JD vs Light were sick series filled with awesome moments.
Too bad this time the semifinals will most likely suck...
All this talk about making protoss favoured maps really is wierd. Why would you want anyone to win because of favoured maps. Why not try to make balanced maps instead of specific racefavoured just because they were at times in the past?
The only reason protoss hasn't won anything for a while is because of Flash and Jaedong's utter superiority the past few years.
On January 20 2011 22:01 StylishVODs wrote: The only reason protoss hasn't won anything for a while is because of Flash and Jaedong's utter superiority the past few years.
This is very unfair imo. Zerg has been stomping protoss left and right for quite some time now. And pvt - the supposed strong mu for protoss - has been balanced.
On January 20 2011 22:01 StylishVODs wrote: The only reason protoss hasn't won anything for a while is because of Flash and Jaedong's utter superiority the past few years.
This is very unfair imo. Zerg has been stomping protoss left and right for quite some time now. And pvt - the supposed strong mu for protoss - has been balanced.
Ok maybe abit unfair, but still Jaedong and Flash has overcome unfavoured maps when needed.
On January 20 2011 22:01 StylishVODs wrote: All this talk about making protoss favoured maps really is wierd. Why would you want anyone to win because of favoured maps. Why not try to make balanced maps instead of specific racefavoured just because they were at times in the past?
The only reason protoss hasn't won anything for a while is because of Flash and Jaedong's utter superiority the past few years.
Because making a balanced map is extremely difficult and require a very long period of testing. Making 5-8 balanced maps for a season is just not possible.
They mush have thought about it, but they realized that it is not possible, so they just made race-favored maps for each season. And it's not for Protoss to win titles or something, it's about making it fair so that every races have a season that they are being favored. I think that they didn't make Protoss favored maps because those maps often turned out to be tooooo imbalanced (like Central Plain, or island maps). It's hard to keep the balance under acceptable limit and at the same time make the maps not bad for Protoss.
I doubt that they have this t-z-t-z map plan. It is just weird to do so, sounds like global conspiracy =) I think they want to create maps which will provide interesting play (all this eggs and arbs). They want to raise the entertainment value while keep at balance. And most of the maps are good for greedy or eco play which is good for zergs.
On January 20 2011 19:52 darktreb wrote: Beautiful game by Zero.
It's hard being in both leagues ... just because Flash made it look doable doesn't mean it is. There's a reason why only two players have ever won both titles simultaneously and only one player (Flash) has done it when the two leagues were actually running at basically the same time.
Stork fans need to lower their expectations - I'd be thrilled with even just one title if I were one of them. He could very well walk away with an OSL silver and an MSL ro8 exit.
The reason is Terran. Certainly no Protoss in history is good enough to make gold, silver or even ro4 of both leagues simultaneouly. I will be very glad if he get two ro4, two silvers or 1 gold. Two gold too much to ask for, unless he revolutionise pvz by next week. Last protoss season bisu and stork couldn't do it with a map like medusa.
On January 20 2011 22:01 StylishVODs wrote: All this talk about making protoss favoured maps really is wierd. Why would you want anyone to win because of favoured maps. Why not try to make balanced maps instead of specific racefavoured just because they were at times in the past?
The only reason protoss hasn't won anything for a while is because of Flash and Jaedong's utter superiority the past few years.
Because making a balanced map is extremely difficult and require a very long period of testing. Making 5-8 balanced maps for a season is just not possible.
They mush have thought about it, but they realized that it is not possible, so they just made race-favored maps for each season. And it's not for Protoss to win titles or something, it's about making it fair so that every races have a season that they are being favored. I think that they didn't make Protoss favored maps because those maps often turned out to be tooooo imbalanced (like Central Plain, or island maps). It's hard to keep the balance under acceptable limit and at the same time make the maps not bad for Protoss.
I'd argue that what they can do is try to make sure maps aren't imbalanced in the same way every season (though look how long TotM stuck around), but to suggest league officials deliberately choose maps that are imbalanced a certain way each season is a kind of big claim. Especially when balance (in some cases) can be hard to predict, and "balance" stats can be skewed by a series of lucky/unlucky matchups.
Well BW is not good for me, I am starting to feel the rage comming.
Tomorrows semi for Stork will be his last stand I think. If he lose, Stork will never again get the same chance at a gold. He might try but he wont get it. And when its over for Stork its over for me. I started BW with Stork, I keept with BW for Stork and when he is no longer Iam no longer.
I soooo want to leave with Stork winning the gold, but if not, it still was fun last season :-)
After seeing the Snow Vs Jaedong game again, it reminds me why Jaedong is my favorite zerg, he knows he won, but he also knows he did not play flawlessly and he shows that.
1)Easy to take natural, preferably in the back and with main on highground. 2)Hard/ridiculously hard to take 3rd - no option for any zerg wall-in or terran taking it fast. 3)4player map - no option for map split turtle.
Now, there isn't much maps like that atm. It's rare to have 2 out of these 3 things at a time; it's not uncommon to have a quick 3rd on a 2player map(hooray for terran).
Lol @ all the people predicting all Z semis.....I'm a zerg player myself so obviously I would love to see a Z's in the semis but winning one set in each matchup does not equal all zergs going through to the next round.
Wanted to point out, for all the Stork v Zero watchers either grumbling about "failed hydra bust" and "ZerO's attack threw away units":
1. As pointed out, ZerO never made a second round of Hydras. He had no intention whatsoever of Hydra busting, though he always had the option of comitting if he got to the nat and there were no cannons. This was a transition build that could have gone either way, but the default was clearly mass drone => Sauron Zerg and it played out flawlessly.
2. ZerO's attack could have done nothing but thin Stork's army by 50% and he would have handily won the game. 4 gas zerg vs. undersaturated 2base toss wins once the Zerg goes neo-sauron, and Stork's only hope would be to wipe out the entire army with literally no losses to his own. ZerO had only 2 goals during that fight: a. continue going sauron and macro up more troops/stream them in as quickly as possible b: make sure stork did not simuldrop his bases/snipe shuttles and reavers occasionally
He did both these things extremely well, and watching the rep it's clear that he has no need to micro the battle beyond these points, so he doesn't. He pays attention to the most important tasks and makes sure Stork doesn't get a 3rd; "throwing away units" was the most efficient use of his time and guaranteed an eventual win against Stork because he could pay attention to the only things that could actually impact the game.
On January 21 2011 00:18 Soulforged wrote: It's damn easy to make a P favored map.
1)Easy to take natural, preferably in the back and with main on highground. 2)Hard/ridiculously hard to take 3rd - no option for any zerg wall-in or terran taking it fast. 3)4player map - no option for map split turtle.
Now, there isn't much maps like that atm. It's rare to have 2 out of these 3 things at a time; it's not uncommon to have a quick 3rd on a 2player map(hooray for terran).
I disagree. I'll rather have an easy to take 3rd with gas and hard to defend 4th with a wide center as the default P favored map. Easy to take 3rd for terran on a big map disadvantage is neglible compared to maps where z can turtle into 4 hatches (like python, luna or any other 4 player map of that kind).
On January 21 2011 00:18 Soulforged wrote: It's damn easy to make a P favored map.
1)Easy to take natural, preferably in the back and with main on highground. 2)Hard/ridiculously hard to take 3rd - no option for any zerg wall-in or terran taking it fast. 3)4player map - no option for map split turtle.
Now, there isn't much maps like that atm. It's rare to have 2 out of these 3 things at a time; it's not uncommon to have a quick 3rd on a 2player map(hooray for terran).
Just read your post, and doesn't Katrina fulfill all 3 of these conditions? xD
On January 21 2011 03:08 vectorix108 wrote: wow zerg winning all the games....
Well, it's not that surprising, really...Stork had another (more important) bo5 to practice for (and Zero can be a monster), JD is JD, 1 zvz, and Kal's pvz isn't really that S-class.
Tomorrows semi for Stork will be his last stand I think. If he lose, Stork will never again get the same chance at a gold.
As Stork fan you should be more confident in him and doesn't bring yourself on the verge of depression after one mere loss.
It's damn easy to make a P favored map.
Hard 3rd = Zerg death. ZvT and ZvP will be one hell. So, no z will play on map, and as map will favor P as well, T will rarely play here too. Endless PvP.
On January 20 2011 22:01 StylishVODs wrote: The only reason protoss hasn't won anything for a while is because of Flash and Jaedong's utter superiority the past few years.
This is very unfair imo. Zerg has been stomping protoss left and right for quite some time now. And pvt - the supposed strong mu for protoss - has been balanced.
I thought my understanding was that during hte legend of the fall the maps were protoss friendly and since then they have deliberately not been so. Flash and JD's beastliness has to be acknowledged, but I thought there is a small part for the maps in this story?
Edit: Wierd talking about Balance in sc1.
Also it's kal. Cmon. It's kal. Does it really matter if he wins or loses?
Every single set was good today, wow. I was kind of disappointed by the result of Zero vs Stork, but Zero played amazingly and had a great build while Stork played less well. Hopefully next week can be different.
On January 20 2011 20:28 arbiter_md wrote: Zero vs Stork game is recommended because of strategy Zero used. I saw zergs trying to fake 3hatch hydras into mass drones many times, but this is the first time when I see it actually working.
This might be the game of reference for a new strategy used by zergs in the future.
Also the way Zero accommodated (or predicted) to Stork build was nice. Stork looked like he never had a chance.
There are other games too but it's pretty amusing how often that it is done to Kal.
Important thing to note is that lair is made at third which causes P to usually catch on too late. (sairs are off hunting overlords etc.) Although Stork should have really seen it coming this game as he had a sair by Zero's nat. Drones were being made and no additional hydras were being rallied. Zero also had a perfect read on Stork in how Stork would try to get back in the game. Would have been an even cleaner victory for Zero if he just targeted the reaver by the min-only.
On January 20 2011 20:28 arbiter_md wrote: Zero vs Stork game is recommended because of strategy Zero used. I saw zergs trying to fake 3hatch hydras into mass drones many times, but this is the first time when I see it actually working.
This might be the game of reference for a new strategy used by zergs in the future.
Also the way Zero accommodated (or predicted) to Stork build was nice. Stork looked like he never had a chance.
There are other games too but it's pretty amusing how often that it is done to Kal.
Important thing to note is that lair is made at third which causes P to usually catch on too late. (sairs are off hunting overlords etc.) Although Stork should have really seen it coming this game as he had a sair by Zero's nat. Drones were being made and no additional hydras were being rallied. Zero also had a perfect read on Stork in how Stork would try to get back in the game. Would have been an even cleaner victory for Zero if he just targeted the reaver by the min-only.
Action also tried it vs Bisu on PR, although he got more hydras than Zero did. Bisu also won that game pretty handily, so..
On January 20 2011 20:28 arbiter_md wrote: Zero vs Stork game is recommended because of strategy Zero used. I saw zergs trying to fake 3hatch hydras into mass drones many times, but this is the first time when I see it actually working.
This might be the game of reference for a new strategy used by zergs in the future.
Also the way Zero accommodated (or predicted) to Stork build was nice. Stork looked like he never had a chance.
There are other games too but it's pretty amusing how often that it is done to Kal.
Important thing to note is that lair is made at third which causes P to usually catch on too late. (sairs are off hunting overlords etc.) Although Stork should have really seen it coming this game as he had a sair by Zero's nat. Drones were being made and no additional hydras were being rallied. Zero also had a perfect read on Stork in how Stork would try to get back in the game. Would have been an even cleaner victory for Zero if he just targeted the reaver by the min-only.
"Your plays seem to be the best out of recent TaekBangLeeSsang matches. ▲ It's a little burdening on me to be compared to the "TaekLeeSsang" considering they too, are doing well, but it's also a pressure on me with me playing well in the Starleague out of the TaekBangLeeSsang. I am worried that if I even lose a one match, my fans might criticize me and I might lose my momentum."
From Stork's interview of Khan vs MBC.
Stork's fan, please don't criticize him too much. He'll lose momentum!
I just realized that the Ro4 might end up being 4 zergs lol. Quite bizarre but I guess when Protoss is doing well that Zergs will ultimately benefit from having to play less terrans.
On January 21 2011 07:09 nosliw wrote: I completely don't understand the "1 game now, 4 games later" BO5 concept.... Why did MSL do this?
I think, it's because, for example if Jaedong has won two games today, then Snow would be under extrem pressure in the first (and maybe last) game next week. And when JD wins it, we have only one game to watch...
So next week we have the change to see a series of games.
And 4 times (possible) 5 games would be too much for one day.
On January 21 2011 07:09 nosliw wrote: I completely don't understand the "1 game now, 4 games later" BO5 concept.... Why did MSL do this?
I think, it's because, for example if Jaedong has won two games today, then Snow would be under extrem pressure in the first (and maybe last) game next week. And when JD wins it, we have only one game to watch...
So next week we have the change to see a series of games.
And 4 times (possible) 5 games would be too much for one day.
they used to just do 2 entire Bo5s 1 day a week over 2 weeks. honestly it worked a lot better. i hate splitting up series at all, and it's even worse with Bo5s.
On January 20 2011 19:06 Spica wrote: YEAHHHHHHHH HYDRA I KNEW YOU COULD DO IT 8DDD
Too bad for Calm that Clam decided to show up tonight. :S
Too tired, gonna sleep now, but I'm satisfied with Hydra's win tonight. |D
You can't wait 20 minutes more to watch Stork ? Shame on you !
Yes, I couldn't wait 20 minutes to watch Stork, because I didn't wanna risk my health and felt like I was going to collapse from lack of sleep. Missing Stork from actually going to sleep instead of fainting would have been better. Plus, I'm glad I didn't see him get rolled by ZerO. I would've been raging so hard.
Ah, fanboyism. The depths it takes us.
Why is everyone acting like there will be ZvZs galore though? It's just day 1 guys, ZvZ finals are not locked in yet. Everyone has so little faith.
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