On January 14 2011 00:28 Chaosquo wrote: Many thanks to ]343[ for doing the Hydra interview!
Hydra: "I reached my first goal--obtaining a seed."
- Thoughts on your first individual league advancement? ▲ I'm really happy I obtained a seed, so I won't have to play in the preliminaries next time. - Since you won the first game, you must have not felt much pressure. ▲ I mainly prepared for the second match on Benzene. This was the right decision. But I regret that the match was still much harder than I had imagined. - You took a lot of damage from the 2 dropship harass. ▲ I often lose to dropships in practice, and I revealed this weak point again today. I'll try to perfect my drop defense in the future. - Your mutalisk micro was very incisive. ▲ While stalling in the middle, since I had +1 armor upgrade on my mutalisks, I was sure I could inflict damage. During the first harass timing, I gave away a bunch of mutalisks, but after that, I focused harder on microing my mutalisks. - Goals for the remaining matches? ▲ I'd like to make the Ro4, then the finals, then win the championship. - It's likely you'll meet another Zerg in the Ro8. ▲ Recently, my ZvZ has improved a lot, so I'll be even more confident if my opponent is Zerg. - In the recent SPL match, your team lost, but you didn't play. Do you regret this? ▲ Personally, I'm quite regretful, but this was the coach's decision, so I can't really say anything. But our ranking is still among the top, so it's not really time to worry. - Last words? ▲ Thanks to all my teammates who practiced with me, and the fans who supported me. I'll practice even harder and show even more exciting matches to everyone.
- Your thoughts about making the Ro8? ▲I'm very happy to be in the Ro8 again. I feel very confident about my matches, so I think the lady of luck must have been watching over me.
- How did you practice for this match? ▲My experiences with last MSL helped alot. I was already up 1-0, so I felt confident. Without these experiences todays game probably wouldnt have gone so well. I wish I could play Calm again with todays form.
- You had a time where didnt have good results in ZvZ, but it seems to have got much better now. ▲I feel especially bad when I lose a ZvZ, because we are using the same units. So my recent practice has mostly been ZvZ.
- You said you wanted ZvZs to reach Hive tech. ▲ZvZs ended in lair stage recently, I think it's because most players are aggressive. I think a defensive game could reach Hive tech, there is no reason not to see ultras in ZvZ.
- Your thoughts on the Ro8? ▲I think if I reached the semis last time my place would be very different. So I will work harder to reach the semis and also to show interesting matches.
- Final Words? ▲I want to thank my teammates who helped me practice well after midnight, and also the fans that always have been supporting me.
- You thoughts on reaching the MSL Ro8 5 times in a row? ▲Nothing special. I think this is only the beginning. I lost only in the finals recently, so I can't slack off.
- Did you guess he would use a proxy 8 rax? ▲I didnt think that much about his opening, I didnt know what he will use. Lomo guessed the opening for last week's matches, so it went well. This time he also said that Midas might use a proxy 8 rax, so I should scout carefully. He guessed correctly, I think it's quite miracolous.
- You already defeated Midas twice in the MSL. ▲I'm not strong against a specific player, it's because of his playstyle. Midas likes to use many different strategies, but my aggressive playstyle counters it, so I won.
- Flash is already out, so you are the strongest contender for champion. ▲It's bad to have these kind of thoughts, you have to play each match to the best and don't think about becoming champion. All pros are strong, who prepares best wins.
- You lost to Stork in Winners League. ▲It is disappointing, but nothing can be done. The more you think about lost matches the worse you'll feel. But losing to Stork make me feel worse in comparison to losing to other people, I feel I lost a match between two aces. I'm curious why my losses against Stork always look so bad.
- Who do you want to face in the Ro8? ▲Because it's a Bo5, I don't care which race I'll face. I'm very confident I can win.
- The preservation of energy became important for the team's aces. ▲I'm taking additional nutrients right now. My fans gave me a lot for my birthday, so I've been eating a lot of them recently.
- Final words? ▲I want to thank all my teammates, especially Lomo, I will treat you to a meal. I also want to thank the fans that came in this cold weather
- With the defeat of Bisu you returned to the Ro8 after 5 seasons. ▲I feel more happy about getting a seed for the next MSL. Preparing for the MST made me feel the horror of PC Bangs, so I’m happy I won’t have these feelings next time. I often meet Bisu so I had some expectations for this match as well. Beating such a strong opponent to make it further gives further meaning to it. Last time Brave suggested an opening, this time it was Grape, that gave me more confidence.
- You are only weak against Bisu in the MSL. ▲Losing to him in the finals has more meaning. I would rather have faced him in the final.
- You played a beautiful match. ▲After our openings I thought it was my reavers against his HT, but I saw with my obs that he only built 2 HT, so he must have used his gas for something else. I originally thought that my reaver goon combo would not necessarily work, but after seeing this situation I attacked decisively and it worked perfectly.
- Who do you want to face in the Ro8? ▲Anybody but great. Because we are teammates, practice for this match would be very awkward. I now have some hope for the finals, so I would rather meet him later. And if I must name somebody else I would not want to play Jaedong. Everybody left is a good player, so I have to practice hard for the match.
- After the vuvuzela ban, your fans are shouting even louder. ▲It was already impressive before the match. I was focused on the match so I didn’t hear it, but when I took of my headphones I heard the shouting again, I way really happy. I can’t express myself very well, but I’m really happy for their support. If I get into both finals the OSL will be played first, I hope to hear my fan’s cheering on the big stage as well.
- Final words? ▲I want to thank Grape for his opening. I won against Bisu, so I will work hard to make it to the finals. I also want to thank my fans for cheering on me.
On January 12 2011 08:58 legaton wrote: Poor Midas, he's going to be raped .... again. And Stork is going to wipe out Bisu. Bisu's pvP is erratic at best.
people get so carried away with hype.
you do recall stork's last few games against toss right?
It's Bisu's to take (or at least duke it out with Jaedong in the finals) if he can push past Stork (though whoever comes out on top, I'd like to see win.) if you consider at least 3 Zergs will compose Ro8 (assuming Midas doesn't kick Jaedong out) but the potential of 7/8 players being Zerg in the Ro8. It'll be like Christmas for Bisu if it's Zergs all the way to the finals.
Though my Ro8 picks after Bisu were: Ssak, Kal, SK, Snow, great, Jaedong, and Classic. SO WHAT DO I KNOW. LOL
The only thing for sure is that epicness will ensue.
Using Stork's PvP record is quite misleading. In the starleagues, Stork's record is basically win against Bisu, Jaehoon in PDPop MSL. Then his last PvP comes from Korean Air OSL months ago, when he beat Kal and lost to free(meaningless game). And before then he lost to Movie a couple of times almost a year ago.
And I find that it's not so much that Stork's sucking at PvP, but rather he seems to blunder a lot in PvP. It seems to come from lack of focus... or cellphone games.
I need to see a Bisu vs. Jaedong finals, so Bisu for the comeback win. I'm trying to keep my hopes down though cause odds are against this. Most likely Bisu will do something stupid like attack with half his army out of position or lose a shuttle reaver early.
Hoping for Bisu victory to ensure that Jaedong at least has a challenge in the finals.
Yes Stork performs well when facing Jaedong, but there's a difference between playing well and winning. Stork hasn't proven that he's capable of the latter against Jaedong, historically speaking.
On January 12 2011 12:39 HitoriTomoyo wrote: Hoping for Bisu victory to ensure that Jaedong at least has a challenge in the finals.
Yes Stork performs well when facing Jaedong, but there's a difference between playing well and winning. Stork hasn't proven that he's capable of the latter against Jaedong, historically speaking.
Actually, neither has Bisu in starleagues. The only difference is that Stork has played Jaedong in BoX much more recently, including the last OSL and that other OSL that featured the Tears of the Protoss.
So in that sense, I'm more excited to see a Bisu v Jaedong in the finals. But as a Stork fan, I still want to see Stork win. What would've REALLY been awesome is seeing Jaedong play Stork/Bisu in one semi-finals, and perhaps the other in the finals.
But alas, Bisu and Stork met in the Ro16. Why couldn't they have done the whole Kespa ranking stuff here rather than Ro8?
I think both Bisu and Stork are going to give Jaedong a run for his money. Actually, given Bisu's recent PvZ standards, I'm leaning to Bisu over Jaedong actually. But I will support Jaedong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On January 12 2011 15:27 jaiBing wrote: how did u get everything to center im trying to do another thread this time for the osl semifinal with fantasy and calm
I thought Finale was making one himself. I'm currently writing something for Calm as part of the hype.
On January 12 2011 15:27 jaiBing wrote: how did u get everything to center im trying to do another thread this time for the osl semifinal with fantasy and calm
On January 12 2011 15:27 jaiBing wrote: how did u get everything to center im trying to do another thread this time for the osl semifinal with fantasy and calm
I thought Finale was making one himself. I'm currently writing something for Calm as part of the hype.
omg really?!?!?! IM SO SORRY. -___- i just posted mine
On January 12 2011 15:27 jaiBing wrote: how did u get everything to center im trying to do another thread this time for the osl semifinal with fantasy and calm
Actually, neither has Bisu in starleagues. The only difference is that Stork has played Jaedong in BoX much more recently, including the last OSL and that other OSL that featured the Tears of the Protoss.
So in that sense, I'm more excited to see a Bisu v Jaedong in the finals. But as a Stork fan, I still want to see Stork win. What would've REALLY been awesome is seeing Jaedong play Stork/Bisu in one semi-finals, and perhaps the other in the finals.
But alas, Bisu and Stork met in the Ro16. Why couldn't they have done the whole Kespa ranking stuff here rather than Ro8?
Isn't that mostly because Bisu's vZ is primarily untested in a Bo5 series? I could be wrong though, I can only recall Bo5s with Bisu mostly involving vT and vP.
While I personally don't think Stork has the highest chance of winning against Jaedong in the finals that doesn't necessarily mean that he won't put up one heck of a fight/win outright; it's just that when one objectively compares his vZ to Bisu's it's apparent that Bisu would have a higher chance at taking out Jaedong in the finals.
Though admittingly, it would be cool to finally see another player besides FlaSh accomplish a dual final feat.
Actually, neither has Bisu in starleagues. The only difference is that Stork has played Jaedong in BoX much more recently, including the last OSL and that other OSL that featured the Tears of the Protoss.
So in that sense, I'm more excited to see a Bisu v Jaedong in the finals. But as a Stork fan, I still want to see Stork win. What would've REALLY been awesome is seeing Jaedong play Stork/Bisu in one semi-finals, and perhaps the other in the finals.
But alas, Bisu and Stork met in the Ro16. Why couldn't they have done the whole Kespa ranking stuff here rather than Ro8?
Isn't that mostly because Bisu's vZ is primarily untested in a Bo5 series? I could be wrong though, I can only recall Bo5s with Bisu mostly involving vT and vP.
While I personally don't think Stork has the highest chance of winning against Jaedong in the finals that doesn't necessarily mean that he won't put up one heck of a fight/win outright; it's just that when one objectively compares his vZ to Bisu's it's apparent that Bisu would have a higher chance at taking out Jaedong in the finals.
Though admittingly, it would be cool to finally see another player besides FlaSh accomplish a dual final feat.
?? Bisu 3-0'd kwanro He 3-1'd GoRush And how could you forget 3-0'ing Savior?
Actually, neither has Bisu in starleagues. The only difference is that Stork has played Jaedong in BoX much more recently, including the last OSL and that other OSL that featured the Tears of the Protoss.
So in that sense, I'm more excited to see a Bisu v Jaedong in the finals. But as a Stork fan, I still want to see Stork win. What would've REALLY been awesome is seeing Jaedong play Stork/Bisu in one semi-finals, and perhaps the other in the finals.
But alas, Bisu and Stork met in the Ro16. Why couldn't they have done the whole Kespa ranking stuff here rather than Ro8?
Isn't that mostly because Bisu's vZ is primarily untested in a Bo5 series? I could be wrong though, I can only recall Bo5s with Bisu mostly involving vT and vP.
While I personally don't think Stork has the highest chance of winning against Jaedong in the finals that doesn't necessarily mean that he won't put up one heck of a fight/win outright; it's just that when one objectively compares his vZ to Bisu's it's apparent that Bisu would have a higher chance at taking out Jaedong in the finals.
Though admittingly, it would be cool to finally see another player besides FlaSh accomplish a dual final feat.
?? Bisu 3-0'd kwanro He 3-1'd GoRush And how could you forget 3-0'ing Savior?
well kwanro and gorush aren't exactly great tests of skill for bo5 pvz
Actually, neither has Bisu in starleagues. The only difference is that Stork has played Jaedong in BoX much more recently, including the last OSL and that other OSL that featured the Tears of the Protoss.
So in that sense, I'm more excited to see a Bisu v Jaedong in the finals. But as a Stork fan, I still want to see Stork win. What would've REALLY been awesome is seeing Jaedong play Stork/Bisu in one semi-finals, and perhaps the other in the finals.
But alas, Bisu and Stork met in the Ro16. Why couldn't they have done the whole Kespa ranking stuff here rather than Ro8?
Isn't that mostly because Bisu's vZ is primarily untested in a Bo5 series? I could be wrong though, I can only recall Bo5s with Bisu mostly involving vT and vP.
While I personally don't think Stork has the highest chance of winning against Jaedong in the finals that doesn't necessarily mean that he won't put up one heck of a fight/win outright; it's just that when one objectively compares his vZ to Bisu's it's apparent that Bisu would have a higher chance at taking out Jaedong in the finals.
Though admittingly, it would be cool to finally see another player besides FlaSh accomplish a dual final feat.
?? Bisu 3-0'd kwanro He 3-1'd GoRush And how could you forget 3-0'ing Savior?
well kwanro and gorush aren't exactly great tests of skill for bo5 pvz
Ok, I didn't mention it because it wasn't really a standard league, but the BvJ special match was an incredible series, with the exception of the probe block.
On January 13 2011 13:56 Crawler wrote: Wow.... Are there really so many trolls or did they really believe that Bisu can win it? I am 90% sure that Stork will advance.
Whats there to troll? Bisu definitely has a shot to beat Stork tonight.
On January 13 2011 13:56 Crawler wrote: Wow.... Are there really so many trolls or did they really believe that Bisu can win it? I am 90% sure that Stork will advance.
Protoss fans better be rooting for Bisu to win tonight. If Stork takes this he will get knocked out by some random Zerg before the finals. We've seen it time and again, no matter how strong a player looks, once it gets to the final rounds the pressure is too much and they crumble (Flash being a huge exception, but that's just a testament to the absolute stranglehold he's had on pro BW in the last year). Stork will focus on the OSL and carrying his team in PL and one of the better Zergs will knock him out for sure.
Actually, neither has Bisu in starleagues. The only difference is that Stork has played Jaedong in BoX much more recently, including the last OSL and that other OSL that featured the Tears of the Protoss.
So in that sense, I'm more excited to see a Bisu v Jaedong in the finals. But as a Stork fan, I still want to see Stork win. What would've REALLY been awesome is seeing Jaedong play Stork/Bisu in one semi-finals, and perhaps the other in the finals.
But alas, Bisu and Stork met in the Ro16. Why couldn't they have done the whole Kespa ranking stuff here rather than Ro8?
Isn't that mostly because Bisu's vZ is primarily untested in a Bo5 series? I could be wrong though, I can only recall Bo5s with Bisu mostly involving vT and vP.
While I personally don't think Stork has the highest chance of winning against Jaedong in the finals that doesn't necessarily mean that he won't put up one heck of a fight/win outright; it's just that when one objectively compares his vZ to Bisu's it's apparent that Bisu would have a higher chance at taking out Jaedong in the finals.
Though admittingly, it would be cool to finally see another player besides FlaSh accomplish a dual final feat.
?? Bisu 3-0'd kwanro He 3-1'd GoRush And how could you forget 3-0'ing Savior?
well kwanro and gorush aren't exactly great tests of skill for bo5 pvz
It's hard to believe, but GoRush and Kwanro were actually good at the time of those Bo5s.
Poll says 50-50. Bisu is already behind 1-0 and stork was much more solid in this mu. Even if bisu were better player in PvP than Stork then Stork still has an edge here. Sadly all the bisu fanboys ruin the poll.
On January 13 2011 14:16 Crawler wrote: Poll says 50-50. Bisu is already behind 1-0 and stork was much more solid in this mu. Even if bisu were better player in PvP than Stork then Stork still has an edge here. Sadly all the bisu fanboys ruin the poll.
That is unfortunately true for almost ANY poll with the option "Bisu" in it. In defence of the poll, however, at least it isn't 80% in the favor of Bisu like a lot of other, even less fortunate polls, and Bisu has some mean PvP when he wants to.
Like most it seems, gunning for a Jaedong-Bisu finals of epic proportions. Stork-Jaedong could be a little one-sided going from their WL match yesterday
On January 13 2011 14:28 Jragon wrote: Like most it seems, gunning for a Jaedong-Bisu finals of epic proportions. Stork-Jaedong could be a little one-sided going from their WL match yesterday
If Jaedong Bisu is epic, but stork jaedong is one sided, wouldn't we want Stork [name of player other than Jaedong] so we could have a higher level final? Also, Jaedong performs far better in series than he does in single matches (check jaedong's vs light)
On January 13 2011 14:28 Jragon wrote: Like most it seems, gunning for a Jaedong-Bisu finals of epic proportions. Stork-Jaedong could be a little one-sided going from their WL match yesterday
On January 13 2011 14:28 Jragon wrote: Like most it seems, gunning for a Jaedong-Bisu finals of epic proportions. Stork-Jaedong could be a little one-sided going from their WL match yesterday
So you are making a case for a JD-Bisu final being onesided too? I quite agree, actually, not only because Jaedong seems to have lost a lot of his power (and I don't like it one bit), but also because Zerg as a whole seem to have a lot of problems with both Bisu and Stork. Wouldn't it be ironic to have the Bisu/Stork JD finals everyone seems to wish for so bad, only for them to end up ridiculously lopsided like most Flash-JD finals so far?
Even though it's "swarm season", I'm not too hopeful for the near future of top Zerg.
On January 13 2011 14:28 Jragon wrote: Like most it seems, gunning for a Jaedong-Bisu finals of epic proportions. Stork-Jaedong could be a little one-sided going from their WL match yesterday
So you are making a case for a JD-Bisu final being onesided too? I quite agree, actually, not only because Jaedong seems to have lost a lot of his power (and I don't like it one bit), but also because Zerg as a whole seem to have a lot of problems with both Bisu and Stork. Wouldn't it be ironic to have the Bisu/Stork JD finals everyone seems to wish for so bad, only for them to end up ridiculously lopsided like most Flash-JD finals so far?
Even though it's "swarm season", I'm not too hopeful for the near future of top Zerg.
gotta agree, although there's more zergs, zergs have been getting owned by bisu/stork these day and even jaedong looks helpless against those two.
remember the last osl jd vs stork? although jd won, it easily could have gone either way and stork lost because he was too stubborn to build an extra cannon. -_-;
Honestly, I want Bisu to win. I seriously do. But realistically, I think Stork has this. He's just a more brilliant player and Bisu is just general good at mechanics. That means Bisu plays mostly standard and Stork can use that to his advantage.
In game 1, Stork went aggressive and took a faster expansion and it worked because he knew Bisu would go standard.
With Stork's newfound PvZ gosuness, 11-2 since his loss to Jaedong in the OSL, I think he and Bisu have similar chances at going through a zerg-infested MSL. That said, I think a potential Stork v Jaedong will likely be less entertaining than Bisu v Jaedong.
I say this because Stork is a strategic player. When his shit works, he makes the other guy looks like a total noob. When it doesn't, he can look outclassed. Bisu and Jaedong are both players with amazing control and multi-tasking, which I feel results in close and more entertaining games.
It's for the same Stork v Flash > Bisu v Flash. Because Flash v Stork would be probably the two most brilliant minds of modern SC, and the strategic macro play on both sides can be epic.
On January 13 2011 14:28 Jragon wrote: Like most it seems, gunning for a Jaedong-Bisu finals of epic proportions. Stork-Jaedong could be a little one-sided going from their WL match yesterday
Jaedong has never won against Stork in PL (0-5), but has won both of their Bo5's and 2/3 of their Bo3's so I wouldn't count him out in case they do meet in the finals.
On January 13 2011 14:28 Jragon wrote: Like most it seems, gunning for a Jaedong-Bisu finals of epic proportions. Stork-Jaedong could be a little one-sided going from their WL match yesterday
So you are making a case for a JD-Bisu final being onesided too? I quite agree, actually, not only because Jaedong seems to have lost a lot of his power (and I don't like it one bit), but also because Zerg as a whole seem to have a lot of problems with both Bisu and Stork. Wouldn't it be ironic to have the Bisu/Stork JD finals everyone seems to wish for so bad, only for them to end up ridiculously lopsided like most Flash-JD finals so far?
Even though it's "swarm season", I'm not too hopeful for the near future of top Zerg.
gotta agree, although there's more zergs, zergs have been getting owned by bisu/stork these day and even jaedong looks helpless against those two.
remember the last osl jd vs stork? although jd won, it easily could have gone either way and stork lost because he was too stubborn to build an extra cannon. -_-;
I wasn't too serious when I said Jaedong couldn't take Stork, that was the Bisu fanboy talking. I'v e got a huge amount of respect for JD and despite the WL loss to Stork I believe he's playing well; the three-kill against WeMade was impressive. Given we definitely need a protoss in the final, JD is still the smartest and most skilled opposition available to give the best games.
On January 13 2011 18:10 ReketSomething wrote: I dont think anyone is THAT disappointed that they are missing the beginning of hydra vs classic....
I am I like to see Hydra play and TvZ is a cool matchup to watch.
I am D: We were born on the same day, dammit!!
Just kidding; Hydra is one of the few Zergs I genuinely like to see playing, but since we're missing only the first few minutes of mining time, it's cool with me.
On January 13 2011 18:10 ReketSomething wrote: I dont think anyone is THAT disappointed that they are missing the beginning of hydra vs classic....
I am I like to see Hydra play and TvZ is a cool matchup to watch.
I am D: We were born on the same day, dammit!!
Just kidding; Hydra is one of the few Zergs I genuinely like to see playing, but since we're missing only the first few minutes of mining time, it's cool with me.
I'm streaming.. afreeca from fucking denmark... no way of telling how stable it will be.. And I have to drive someone to the train in about 15 mins. hope shit works... hf~~
Even though Classic has a force of MnM + vessels, Hydra is not daunted and simply slaughters the army with his lurker and muta force!! Marine and medic blood everywhere, ahhhh it's a slaughterfest!!!
On January 13 2011 18:18 LichtgestaltSC wrote: And Hydra takes his fourth (Mineral only) during a not so successfull Muta-Attack...
completely stalling the opponent on 2 base while u take 4 is the definition of successful muta harass
Yes, in a standard build order, but Hydra expanded way earlier to his third than usual. But you are right, the muta´s proved to be effective later on, but you´ve got to admit, his first try in Classic´s base wasn´t "the definition of a successfull muta harass"
This is pretty much over. Classic played a really solid game though. I'm glad the kid put up a good showing. He was pretty soundly on the back foot right from the start because of that early 3rd gas for Hydra. Cool game though.
Classic and Hydra's armies meet near the center again, but Hydra's defilers are back in action to make things hard for Classic and plagues some of his forces again.
hydra's hydralurkerling strategy is paying off as he gets more vessels. keeping the vessel count low is so crucial in ZvT lategame, and in lieu of defilers, hydras are helping him do that--a great decision in the face of a really annoying, and potentially crippling, loss of his defiler den. (twice.)
and classic gg's... decent drops, but no tanks vs hydras... heh.
Awesome, awesome game. I wish we could've gotten a third.
Hydra looked so fucking scary, and if it hadn't been for that drop that took out the Hive he would've won so much easier (wouldn't have been as fun to watch though ).
On January 13 2011 18:38 ]343[ wrote: hydra's hydralurkerling strategy is paying off as he gets more vessels. keeping the vessel count low is so crucial in ZvT lategame, and in lieu of defilers, hydras are helping him do that--a great decision in the face of a really annoying, and potentially crippling, loss of his defiler den. (twice.)
and classic gg's... decent drops, but no tanks vs hydras... heh.
Thing is, hydras works very very well against SKterran, because they snipe really easily shuttles and vessels, and are damn efficients against mm if they are supported by lurkers and in sufficient number.
The only reason people don't play hydra in every zvt is dark swarm.
I like both of those players a lot and they didn't disappoint me tonight. Wish it had been 2-1 though.
Also Craton stop covering portions of the show with music videos. Do it during commercials if you really want to but some people like to see the whole broadcast.
That game is definitely recommended; I'm glad that unlike so many other players out there, Hydra showed a perfect example of not falling for the same trick to drops over and over again. He was well prepared and kept calm under pressure, even when his defiler mound was sniped annoyingly TWICE! I am very sure that he will go deep in this MSL now. ^^
And now... I am probably part of the minority cheering for Midas. LET'S GO BABY BEARRRR BUNKER RUSH THAT DONNNNNG
On January 13 2011 18:42 McDonalds wrote: I like both of those players a lot and they didn't disappoint me tonight. Wish it had been 2-1 though.
Also Craton stop covering portions of the show with music videos. Do it during commercials if you really want to but some people like to see the whole broadcast.
streamer has the right to stream whatever he wants. watching a stream is a privilege, not a right.
On January 13 2011 18:40 Lann555 wrote: Great game. Hydra is becoming quite a beast. Still think Classic could have done more after resetting the defiler tech
Like what? He had no map control and very little materiel. Terran can only be aggressive with drops without center control and Hydra got savvy to the dropping pretty quick. There were some minor control mistakes, but Classic's decision making was very sound. There aren't many Terrans who could have done a better job from such a build order deficit.
The only mistake, maybe, was not trying to punish the fast third when he saw a late lair off of two hatch. Even then though, he would have to make a risky attack. He chose to play safe for a long game hoping to even it out later, which he couldn't really pull off.
On January 13 2011 18:38 ]343[ wrote: hydra's hydralurkerling strategy is paying off as he gets more vessels. keeping the vessel count low is so crucial in ZvT lategame, and in lieu of defilers, hydras are helping him do that--a great decision in the face of a really annoying, and potentially crippling, loss of his defiler den. (twice.)
and classic gg's... decent drops, but no tanks vs hydras... heh.
Thing is, hydras works very very well against SKterran, because they snipe really easily shuttles and vessels, and are damn efficients against mm if they are supported by lurkers and in sufficient number.
The only reason people don't play hydra in every zvt is dark swarm.
hydra/lurker doesn't really become unstoppable against SKTerran until plague. It's what makes hydras better than cracklings in terms of killing off mnm armies. But it's a very, very expensive build, as usually you want to save your gas by using super-cheap cracklings. But if you're on gazillion bases as hydra did, then it's a much more viable build.
It's also why hydra couldn't kill off classic so quickly, because the defiler mound/hive snipe left him without plague for so long.
On January 13 2011 18:41 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 13 2011 18:38 ]343[ wrote: hydra's hydralurkerling strategy is paying off as he gets more vessels. keeping the vessel count low is so crucial in ZvT lategame, and in lieu of defilers, hydras are helping him do that--a great decision in the face of a really annoying, and potentially crippling, loss of his defiler den. (twice.)
and classic gg's... decent drops, but no tanks vs hydras... heh.
Thing is, hydras works very very well against SKterran, because they snipe really easily shuttles and vessels, and are damn efficients against mm if they are supported by lurkers and in sufficient number.
The only reason people don't play hydra in every zvt is dark swarm.
hydra/lurker doesn't really become unstoppable against SKTerran until plague. It's what makes hydras better than cracklings in terms of killing off mnm armies. But it's a very, very expensive build, as usually you want to save your gas by using super-cheap cracklings. But if you're on gazillion bases as hydra did, then it's a much more viable build.
It's also why hydra couldn't kill off classic so quickly, because the defiler mound/hive snipe left him without plague for so long.
A couple of tanks on siege mode could have solve the hydras. But classic wasn't good on mnm control vs lurkers, 5 lurkers enough to stop his whole force every time. He is bound to lose to lurker swarm.
On January 13 2011 18:44 purpose wrote: Korea really likes boy and girl band. Do they have like 1million of them or what?
The rest of the world got tired of that musik yeras ago :-)
yeah most idol group kpop is bs these days. IU is pretty good tho. i feel kpop these days has too much electronic music for my taste but oh wells.....every other krn seems like it :/
Compared to Japanese and Chinese pop music, I think K-pop has a certain extra flair to it that makes it a bit more enjoyable. I'm not sure what it is. At the very least k-pop has less androgynous male stars than j-pop.
On January 13 2011 18:53 hellbound wrote: Wasn't it "overseas"?
Considering nothing goes in or out of N. Korea, I think everything has to go out from S. Korea "over seas".
That said, I never though KPop was all that amazing outside Korea. At least not nearly as much as Korean drama's spreading. Then again, I could be behind the times though...
Edit in order to make a post that fits the thread: Go Midas!
Cratoon thanks a million for streaming, but seriously, i love kpop but dont play it when the game is about to start, i like to see the whole broadcast just do it in commercials please?
On January 13 2011 18:54 ArvickHero wrote: at least we sort of caught that epic Drone/ling bust Jaedong did :D
I didn't catch that game and I didn't realize so it was a replay so here I'm screaming OHHH MYYY GODDD JAEDONG IS DRONE RUSHHINGG WITH LINGGS AHHHHHH..
then I realized it was a replay, hahaha. still epic tho. :D
Nice tech-switch again from Midas, after JD forced some valks/gols out of him there was a good chance he'd have to deal with hydra soon. Question is: will it be enough?
This might be some mind games from Jaedong after beating Midas with pure muta on Fortress. Make Midas overcommit to anti air while getting 4 base eco and hydra.
Props to Midas for getting back into the game as far as he did, but his stunted assaults on 11 out him out of it again, and JD just compounded his advantage he'd gotten by miraculously scouting that proxy rax. LJD = LJD, GG ^^
Midas's control was great early on, skirting around lurkers and keeping losses down. He sort of fell apart a bit as the game went on though. JD just managed to hold the first couple of pushes without spending too many larvae on units. Good game overall. Lots of action the whole time.
Midas just cannot keep up with Jaedongs multitasking, no surprise here. He was actually very lucky that the SCV was able to finish the proxy barracks. Two more hits and the game would have been over right there.
Bo5 stage and probably only toss and zerg left. This looks pretty good for the Dong.
On January 13 2011 19:19 thopol wrote: Midas's control was great early on, skirting around lurkers and keeping losses down. He sort of fell apart a bit as the game went on though. JD just managed to hold the first couple of pushes without spending too many larvae on units. Good game overall. Lots of action the whole time.
I didnt really like the game so much...at no point did you really doubt jaedong was going to win or was ahead...and when you did he just came in and completely raped midas's army over and over while getting more and more territory. Classic and hydras you kinda didnt know who was gonna win for a while as classic had really good drops at a certain point.
On January 13 2011 19:17 kuroshiroi wrote: Why must you confuse me so much, Jaedong. Losing to Bisu and Stork while raping Midas...
I hope you still got vP's number in a BoX series.
gg
haha yeah i'm kinda worried about JD's vP right now...he just got crushed by bisu and stork in spl so I'm not sure what to make of his vP currently.....
On January 13 2011 19:17 hacklebeast wrote: GG before the doom drop hits, it would be so sexy if we found out later that the drop was a fake, and they were all empty...
We saw him load the overlords up so theres no way it could have been fake...unless the army disappeared...
edit: and since when has anyone getting raped by bisu and stork make their matchup vP seem weak...i guess JD
On January 13 2011 19:17 kuroshiroi wrote: Why must you confuse me so much, Jaedong. Losing to Bisu and Stork while raping Midas...
I hope you still got vP's number in a BoX series.
gg
haha yeah i'm kinda worried about JD's vP right now...he just got crushed by bisu and stork in spl so I'm not sure what to make of his vP currently.....
On January 13 2011 19:19 thopol wrote: Midas's control was great early on, skirting around lurkers and keeping losses down. He sort of fell apart a bit as the game went on though. JD just managed to hold the first couple of pushes without spending too many larvae on units. Good game overall. Lots of action the whole time.
I didnt really like the game so much...at no point did you really doubt jaedong was going to win or was ahead...and when you did he just came in and completely raped midas's army over and over while getting more and more territory. Classic and hydras you kinda didnt know who was gonna win for a while as classic had really good drops at a certain point.
Totally agree... it was kinda surprising JD didn't win sooner.
On January 13 2011 19:23 xarthaz wrote: stream crashed whassup with dat
Probably another technical difficulty; don't worry, it'll get fixed soon, and if it doesn't come back for a while, it's okay, since it's a ZvZ next. ;P
On January 13 2011 19:19 thopol wrote: Midas's control was great early on, skirting around lurkers and keeping losses down. He sort of fell apart a bit as the game went on though. JD just managed to hold the first couple of pushes without spending too many larvae on units. Good game overall. Lots of action the whole time.
I didnt really like the game so much...at no point did you really doubt jaedong was going to win or was ahead...and when you did he just came in and completely raped midas's army over and over while getting more and more territory. Classic and hydras you kinda didnt know who was gonna win for a while as classic had really good drops at a certain point.
While I agree that there wasn't really any tension, I didn't feel like Classic had a shot at any point either. In both cases, the Terran couldn't be aggressive. Midas managed to make some conventional pushes which were crushed, and Classic managed to drop, but never had any ability to move onto the map. This was certainly more one-sided, but I felt like Midas's marine control at least was superior.
On January 13 2011 19:17 kuroshiroi wrote: Why must you confuse me so much, Jaedong. Losing to Bisu and Stork while raping Midas...
I hope you still got vP's number in a BoX series.
gg
haha yeah i'm kinda worried about JD's vP right now...he just got crushed by bisu and stork in spl so I'm not sure what to make of his vP currently.....
He is too greedy and predictable. He uses tzhe same build against Stork and Bisu. I dont know why he likes that build so much. It seems very fragile.
Jaedong better not lose to a protoss in a series ! I'm kinda dissapointed with his showing this days . He is a little bit rusty nowadays compared to 2007/08/09 . He is still the best zerg overall though .
On January 13 2011 19:17 hacklebeast wrote: GG before the doom drop hits, it would be so sexy if we found out later that the drop was a fake, and they were all empty...
We saw him load the overlords up so theres no way it could have been fake...unless the army disappeared...
edit: and since when has anyone getting raped by bisu and stork make their matchup vP seem weak...i guess JD
consuming everything as a statement would've been pretty awesome ;D
LOL, JD is asked what Midas means to him, and JD doesn't really have an answer... Commentator = "You've never really thought about it?" JD = "A... player to defeat?"
Fans wondering about JD's wrist? JD says nope, no problem
On January 13 2011 19:20 Malinor wrote: Midas just cannot keep up with Jaedongs multitasking, no surprise here. He was actually very lucky that the SCV was able to finish the proxy barracks. Two more hits and the game would have been over right there.
It wasn't being "lucky", the cheese was somewhat to be expected, given what had happened in the first game ( XD )
On January 13 2011 19:24 yoonyoon wrote: Oops, forgot about JD interview.
LOL, JD is asked what Midas means to him, and JD doesn't really have an answer... Commentator = "You've never really thought about it?" JD = "A... player to defeat?"
Fans wondering about JD's wrist? JD says nope, no problem
LMFAO, what a slap to Midas's reputation. Poor baby bear.
On January 13 2011 19:17 kuroshiroi wrote: Why must you confuse me so much, Jaedong. Losing to Bisu and Stork while raping Midas...
I hope you still got vP's number in a BoX series.
gg
haha yeah i'm kinda worried about JD's vP right now...he just got crushed by bisu and stork in spl so I'm not sure what to make of his vP currently.....
I just think he is too set on fast hive. When JD beats Stork and Bisu, its usually do to his more 08-09 aggression. Dunno why he doesn't get back to that. '
On January 13 2011 19:17 hacklebeast wrote: GG before the doom drop hits, it would be so sexy if we found out later that the drop was a fake, and they were all empty...
We saw him load the overlords up so theres no way it could have been fake...unless the army disappeared...
edit: and since when has anyone getting raped by bisu and stork make their matchup vP seem weak...i guess JD
consuming everything as a statement would've been pretty awesome ;D
That is the sweetest in-game ceremony idea! So much cooler than manner nexus or something. I want to see that someday.
On January 13 2011 19:17 kuroshiroi wrote: Why must you confuse me so much, Jaedong. Losing to Bisu and Stork while raping Midas...
I hope you still got vP's number in a BoX series.
gg
haha yeah i'm kinda worried about JD's vP right now...he just got crushed by bisu and stork in spl so I'm not sure what to make of his vP currently.....
JD is so greedy vs P now adays it's ridiculous
Not really that greedy , his timings aren't as sharp as they were before . Hydra and even Hogil executes the early 4 base pretty well , even thought Hogil kinda fails afterwards .
On January 13 2011 19:23 Fenrax wrote: I dont know about that Barracks scout... I honestly dont know...
Anyone who knows Midas would be looking out for some sort of cheese. Not that surprising he was found out really. Personally I was 90% sure he would try it on in this game.
On January 13 2011 19:17 kuroshiroi wrote: Why must you confuse me so much, Jaedong. Losing to Bisu and Stork while raping Midas...
I hope you still got vP's number in a BoX series.
gg
haha yeah i'm kinda worried about JD's vP right now...he just got crushed by bisu and stork in spl so I'm not sure what to make of his vP currently.....
JD is so greedy vs P now adays it's ridiculous
Not really that greedy , his timings aren't as sharp as they were before . Hydra and even Hogil executes the early 4 base pretty well , even thought Hogil kinda fails afterwards .
I'm its because both Bisu and Stork both did weird timing attacks that really exploited Jaedong's traditional style of play. If Bisu/Stork played against Hydra/Hogil in the same fashion, they would've failed even harder.
On January 13 2011 19:23 Fenrax wrote: I dont know about that Barracks scout... I honestly dont know...
Anyone who knows Midas would be looking out for some sort of cheese. Not that surprising he was found out really. Personally I was 90% sure he would try it on in this game.
Given that he announced to the world that 12hatching was greedy, a bunker rush is extremely likely, especially after he got fucking drone rushed last game.
On January 13 2011 19:23 xarthaz wrote: stream crashed whassup with dat
Probably another technical difficulty; don't worry, it'll get fixed soon, and if it doesn't come back for a while, it's okay, since it's a ZvZ next. ;P
ZvZ with great actually! it could be another ling-muta-spore-greater spire-double mound-hydra-ultra play! ZvZ at its roughest best!
On January 13 2011 19:17 kuroshiroi wrote: Why must you confuse me so much, Jaedong. Losing to Bisu and Stork while raping Midas...
I hope you still got vP's number in a BoX series.
gg
haha yeah i'm kinda worried about JD's vP right now...he just got crushed by bisu and stork in spl so I'm not sure what to make of his vP currently.....
JD is so greedy vs P now adays it's ridiculous
Not really that greedy , his timings aren't as sharp as they were before . Hydra and even Hogil executes the early 4 base pretty well , even thought Hogil kinda fails afterwards .
I'm its because both Bisu and Stork both did weird timing attacks that really exploited Jaedong's traditional style of play. If Bisu/Stork played against Hydra/Hogil in the same fashion, they would've failed even harder.
So what you're saying is JD is playing too standard in PL, maybe, perhaps, possibly?
On January 13 2011 19:20 Malinor wrote: Midas just cannot keep up with Jaedongs multitasking, no surprise here. He was actually very lucky that the SCV was able to finish the proxy barracks. Two more hits and the game would have been over right there.
It wasn't being "lucky", the cheese was somewhat to be expected, given what had happened in the first game ( XD )
With "He" I meant Midas was lucky, not Jaedong, I think the sentence makes it clear that I am talking about terran.
On January 13 2011 19:23 xarthaz wrote: stream crashed whassup with dat
Probably another technical difficulty; don't worry, it'll get fixed soon, and if it doesn't come back for a while, it's okay, since it's a ZvZ next. ;P
ZvZ with great actually! it could be another ling-muta-spore-greater spire-double mound-hydra-ultra play! ZvZ at its roughest best!
Well... The only ZvZs I like are 5 minute long ones, so I hope that great will 4pool or something then! :D
On January 13 2011 19:20 Malinor wrote: Midas just cannot keep up with Jaedongs multitasking, no surprise here. He was actually very lucky that the SCV was able to finish the proxy barracks. Two more hits and the game would have been over right there.
It wasn't being "lucky", the cheese was somewhat to be expected, given what had happened in the first game ( XD )
With "He" I meant Midas was lucky, not Jaedong, I think the sentence makes it clear that I am talking about terran.
On January 13 2011 19:17 kuroshiroi wrote: Why must you confuse me so much, Jaedong. Losing to Bisu and Stork while raping Midas...
I hope you still got vP's number in a BoX series.
gg
haha yeah i'm kinda worried about JD's vP right now...he just got crushed by bisu and stork in spl so I'm not sure what to make of his vP currently.....
JD is so greedy vs P now adays it's ridiculous
Not really that greedy , his timings aren't as sharp as they were before . Hydra and even Hogil executes the early 4 base pretty well , even thought Hogil kinda fails afterwards .
I'm its because both Bisu and Stork both did weird timing attacks that really exploited Jaedong's traditional style of play. If Bisu/Stork played against Hydra/Hogil in the same fashion, they would've failed even harder.
So what you're saying is JD is playing too standard in PL, maybe, perhaps, possibly?
More like Jaedong never encountered these builds in practice so he was caught off-guard by them. It's pretty much a one-off thing, I'm more than certain if anyone tried using those builds against Jaedong again they'd be totally crushed.
On January 13 2011 19:24 ArvickHero wrote: consuming everything as a statement would've been pretty awesome ;D
That is the sweetest in-game ceremony idea! So much cooler than manner nexus or something. I want to see that someday.
I just saw it recently, it was a TvZ with a rather good Z, the zerg was all over the terrans main, but the terran wouldnt gg, so he consumed ultras and stuff. I cant remember who the players were, but it was on either Benzene on Circuit Breaker (I remember it happened in the 7 o'clock main on a space tileset, so only these 2 maps apply). It was not in SWL. Can someone help me remember the game?
I dunno what's up with JD's vP style, but I thought zerg might have learned NOT to go 4 base and mass mutas but to go hydras against corsairs since Savior vs Bisu... no? X_x
On January 13 2011 19:24 ArvickHero wrote: consuming everything as a statement would've been pretty awesome ;D
That is the sweetest in-game ceremony idea! So much cooler than manner nexus or something. I want to see that someday.
I just saw it recently, it was a TvZ with a rather good Z, the zerg was all over the terrans main, but the terran wouldnt gg, so he consumed ultras and stuff. I cant remember who the players were, but it was on either Benzene on Circuit Breaker (I remember it happened in the 7 o'clock main on a space tileset, so only these 2 maps apply). It was not in SWL. Can someone help me remember the game?
Hyun and Classic on Icarus. Hyun did it cos Jaehoon was bunker rushed by Bogus.
On January 13 2011 19:24 ArvickHero wrote: consuming everything as a statement would've been pretty awesome ;D
That is the sweetest in-game ceremony idea! So much cooler than manner nexus or something. I want to see that someday.
I just saw it recently, it was a TvZ with a rather good Z, the zerg was all over the terrans main, but the terran wouldnt gg, so he consumed ultras and stuff. I cant remember who the players were, but it was on either Benzene on Circuit Breaker (I remember it happened in the 7 o'clock main on a space tileset, so only these 2 maps apply). It was not in SWL. Can someone help me remember the game?
Hyun and Classic on Icarus. Hyun did it cos Jaehoon was bunker rushed by Bogus.
On January 13 2011 19:24 ArvickHero wrote: consuming everything as a statement would've been pretty awesome ;D
That is the sweetest in-game ceremony idea! So much cooler than manner nexus or something. I want to see that someday.
I just saw it recently, it was a TvZ with a rather good Z, the zerg was all over the terrans main, but the terran wouldnt gg, so he consumed ultras and stuff. I cant remember who the players were, but it was on either Benzene on Circuit Breaker (I remember it happened in the 7 o'clock main on a space tileset, so only these 2 maps apply). It was not in SWL. Can someone help me remember the game?
On January 13 2011 19:17 hacklebeast wrote: GG before the doom drop hits, it would be so sexy if we found out later that the drop was a fake, and they were all empty...
We saw him load the overlords up so theres no way it could have been fake...unless the army disappeared...
edit: and since when has anyone getting raped by bisu and stork make their matchup vP seem weak...i guess JD
consuming everything as a statement would've been pretty awesome ;D
That is the sweetest in-game ceremony idea! So much cooler than manner nexus or something. I want to see that someday.
i remember Soulkey vs Fantasy consuming his ultralisks as a BM :D
On January 13 2011 19:24 ArvickHero wrote: consuming everything as a statement would've been pretty awesome ;D
That is the sweetest in-game ceremony idea! So much cooler than manner nexus or something. I want to see that someday.
I just saw it recently, it was a TvZ with a rather good Z, the zerg was all over the terrans main, but the terran wouldnt gg, so he consumed ultras and stuff. I cant remember who the players were, but it was on either Benzene on Circuit Breaker (I remember it happened in the 7 o'clock main on a space tileset, so only these 2 maps apply). It was not in SWL. Can someone help me remember the game?
Hyun and Classic on Icarus. Hyun did it cos Jaehoon was bunker rushed by Bogus.
On January 13 2011 19:17 hacklebeast wrote: GG before the doom drop hits, it would be so sexy if we found out later that the drop was a fake, and they were all empty...
We saw him load the overlords up so theres no way it could have been fake...unless the army disappeared...
edit: and since when has anyone getting raped by bisu and stork make their matchup vP seem weak...i guess JD
consuming everything as a statement would've been pretty awesome ;D
That is the sweetest in-game ceremony idea! So much cooler than manner nexus or something. I want to see that someday.
i remember Soulkey vs Fantasy consuming his ultralisks as a BM :D
I remember that, Fantasy totally deserved that for playing like total ass lol
On January 13 2011 19:23 xarthaz wrote: stream crashed whassup with dat
Probably another technical difficulty; don't worry, it'll get fixed soon, and if it doesn't come back for a while, it's okay, since it's a ZvZ next. ;P
ZvZ with great actually! it could be another ling-muta-spore-greater spire-double mound-hydra-ultra play! ZvZ at its roughest best!
On January 13 2011 19:43 ReketSomething wrote: action 12 hatch, great 9 pool speedlings. Great somehow knew where action was and just won with some decent micro
YEEEAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH BISU VS. STORK. SHIT JUST GOT REAL.
Bisu looking tense in his booth, Stork looking tense as well. Stork's fans are definitely crazy though, as they are letting out animal shrieks for their favorite player!!
Let's go, both of you guys!! Whoever loses will be extremely painful to watch, as I love the both of you. DDD:
What is that bar graph they show before the games? Each bar represents a game, with the positives indicating a win, and negatives indicating a loss. But what about the height of the bars?
On January 13 2011 20:02 Hier wrote: What is that bar graph they show before the games? Each bar represents a game, with the positives indicating a win, and negatives indicating a loss. But what about the height of the bars?
On January 13 2011 20:02 Hier wrote: What is that bar graph they show before the games? Each bar represents a game, with the positives indicating a win, and negatives indicating a loss. But what about the height of the bars?
I too am curious
I believe it's how whoever ranked it perceives how "bad" the loss was. Basically the quality of the loss indicator. More bars=worse the rapestomp. At least, that's what I think it is.
On January 13 2011 20:02 Hier wrote: What is that bar graph they show before the games? Each bar represents a game, with the positives indicating a win, and negatives indicating a loss. But what about the height of the bars?
I too am curious
Skill of opponent, cant remember if more or less bars is better though edit based on kespa ranking iirc
Zzzzz... The hard-knock-life as a Bisu fan continues.... On a related note how the heck are the 2 chokers higher on the Power Rank than JD....Soooo WRONG ON SOO MANY LEVELS!
On January 13 2011 20:09 ArvickHero wrote: Bisu with a nice advantage here, if he can hold off this incoming attack/harass
Isn't Stork at an advantage right now?
If Bisu had kept his shit back at his nat and used those HT to storm off the enemy army, he would've had the advantage of having faster Templar tech, better upgrades and I think he also had a faster expo.
As I said earlier, I'm sure that when his probe died, Stork knew that Bisu would go dt since Stork couldn't scout anymore. So Stork just hard countered dt into expand with cannons. Stork should play poker !
Why you go for a storm drop when u have 4 goons and 2 cannons at home with 2 gates of production without even scouting your opponents base to check for say, a reaver/goon allin timing, is beyond me. holding them at home and coordinating his defence with storms to snipe the reavers and probes could ahve won him the game
i think stork cut his probe production and went for a timing all-in kill. god that game looked way too easy stork is on fire
A timing "allin" kill? That was far from an allin, he was just exploiting the fact Bisu had NO ARMY because he rushed DTs and was stopped by safe obs-first play.
On January 13 2011 20:13 hacklebeast wrote: missed the hydra game, other 3 were disapointing. Not worth geting up at 4am. Oh well, that's just how bw goes.
On January 13 2011 20:09 ArvickHero wrote: Bisu with a nice advantage here, if he can hold off this incoming attack/harass
Isn't Stork at an advantage right now?
If Bisu had kept his shit back at his nat and used those HT to storm off the enemy army, he would've had the advantage of having faster Templar tech, better upgrades and I think he also had a faster expo.
Bisu is Bisu, he can't not harass...
It kind of feels like Stork is channeling Flash in his god mode, timing attacks, impeccable control and nice strategies.
Has he ever looked so good before? (ignorant question, hoping for an honest answer)
On January 13 2011 20:09 ArvickHero wrote: Bisu with a nice advantage here, if he can hold off this incoming attack/harass
Isn't Stork at an advantage right now?
If Bisu had kept his shit back at his nat and used those HT to storm off the enemy army, he would've had the advantage of having faster Templar tech, better upgrades and I think he also had a faster expo.
The problem of his BO are forge plus canons though. And he would not have stopped that push with two HTs, he needed more gates. I'm not even sure he had range, but hey...
On January 13 2011 20:09 ArvickHero wrote: Bisu with a nice advantage here, if he can hold off this incoming attack/harass
Isn't Stork at an advantage right now?
If Bisu had kept his shit back at his nat and used those HT to storm off the enemy army, he would've had the advantage of having faster Templar tech, better upgrades and I think he also had a faster expo.
There is no way that for Bisu to stop that attack even with 2 templars he'll still lose. His goon count is way too low.
i think stork cut his probe production and went for a timing all-in kill. god that game looked way too easy stork is on fire
A timing "allin" kill? That was far from an allin, he was just exploiting the fact Bisu had NO ARMY because he rushed DTs and was stopped by safe obs-first play.
Was definitely an all-in push.
Bisu expoed earlier, better economy, had better tech, had better upgrades. The only advantage Stork did have was in army, which he cut everything else, and added 2 extra gateways, increasing that advatange.
Had Bisu somehow held that attack, Bisu would've taken the game. But alas, Stork had a beautiful attack.
i think stork cut his probe production and went for a timing all-in kill. god that game looked way too easy stork is on fire
A timing "allin" kill? That was far from an allin, he was just exploiting the fact Bisu had NO ARMY because he rushed DTs and was stopped by safe obs-first play.
stork cut probes for ages to get all the gates up. If that attack failed he would've been hugely behind economically. hence allin
On January 13 2011 20:13 hacklebeast wrote: missed the hydra game, other 3 were disapointing. Not worth geting up at 4am. Oh well, that's just how bw goes.
The only quality game tonight imo was Hydra's game; he played like a total beast.
Ahhh, so unfortunate for Bisu to lose by BO, but I guess Bisu is too predictable at times... At least we still have a Protoss in this MSL! If Stork loses to a random Zerg after knocking Bisu out who had technically the greater chance of going deeper, I will be so pissed.
On January 13 2011 20:14 Garrl wrote: Stork played safe and won.
i think stork cut his probe production and went for a timing all-in kill. god that game looked way too easy stork is on fire
A timing "allin" kill? That was far from an allin, he was just exploiting the fact Bisu had NO ARMY because he rushed DTs and was stopped by safe obs-first play.
Was definitely an all-in push.
Bisu expoed earlier, better economy, had better tech, had better upgrades. The only advantage Stork did have was in army, which he cut everything else, and added 2 extra gateways, increasing that advatange.
Had Bisu somehow held that attack, Bisu would've taken the game. But alas, Stork had a beautiful attack.
WHAT allin attack? Have you played sc at all... that was just a timing push
On January 13 2011 20:09 ArvickHero wrote: Bisu with a nice advantage here, if he can hold off this incoming attack/harass
Isn't Stork at an advantage right now?
If Bisu had kept his shit back at his nat and used those HT to storm off the enemy army, he would've had the advantage of having faster Templar tech, better upgrades and I think he also had a faster expo.
Not necesarily true.
Stork was pounding goons off 3-4 gates, where bisu was going off of 1-2. Bisu was probing like a madman while filling out his whole tech tree. I think even with those 2 HT at the nat stork's push still steamrolls him, he played way too greedy
Bisu's decision-making in this series was seriously lacking. To the point where I don't even know what's happening to this PvP.
In game 1, he pressured Stork despite having an econ disadvantage, resulting in rape in the first encounter and huge disadvantage for the rest of the game.
In game 2, he had a decent advantage, expanding earlier than Stork. But with the huge scouting disadvantage(Stork had an ob floating in his base), Bisu actually played risky going for the drop, and not putting up gateways quickly to catch up on units.
Absolutely horrendous play by Bisu. Basically rolled over. Stork didn't even play amazingly. He just played mistake-free games.
On January 13 2011 20:09 ArvickHero wrote: Bisu with a nice advantage here, if he can hold off this incoming attack/harass
Isn't Stork at an advantage right now?
If Bisu had kept his shit back at his nat and used those HT to storm off the enemy army, he would've had the advantage of having faster Templar tech, better upgrades and I think he also had a faster expo.
The problem of his BO are forge plus canons though. And he would not have stopped that push with two HTs, he needed more gates. I'm not even sure he had range, but hey...
DT Forge Expand is a pretty staple and solid build, problem was Bisu didn't see that attack coming (for some reason god knows why not). The fact that it was cross positions too, Bisu should've had ample time to prepare, since they had same gate production, Bisu would've needed to add a couple more cannons, and use the storms to snipe the Reavers. unlike his game vs Kal, where he added a lot of cannons, Bisu simply got way too greedy here
On January 13 2011 20:09 ArvickHero wrote: Bisu with a nice advantage here, if he can hold off this incoming attack/harass
Isn't Stork at an advantage right now?
If Bisu had kept his shit back at his nat and used those HT to storm off the enemy army, he would've had the advantage of having faster Templar tech, better upgrades and I think he also had a faster expo.
The problem of his BO are forge plus canons though. And he would not have stopped that push with two HTs, he needed more gates. I'm not even sure he had range, but hey...
Yeah definitely, the only way Bisu could've held that off with the two HTs at home would be to pray for some miracle storm that Stork doesn't move out of. Stork was pumping out of 5 gates and had 2 Reaver/Shuttle as support, Bisu really didn't stand a chance.
On January 13 2011 20:14 Garrl wrote: Stork played safe and won.
i think stork cut his probe production and went for a timing all-in kill. god that game looked way too easy stork is on fire
A timing "allin" kill? That was far from an allin, he was just exploiting the fact Bisu had NO ARMY because he rushed DTs and was stopped by safe obs-first play.
Was definitely an all-in push.
Bisu expoed earlier, better economy, had better tech, had better upgrades. The only advantage Stork did have was in army, which he cut everything else, and added 2 extra gateways, increasing that advatange.
Had Bisu somehow held that attack, Bisu would've taken the game. But alas, Stork had a beautiful attack.
I'm doubting that you actually play the Protoss vs Protoss matchup on a level higher than D-/D.
Stork had a very comfortable economy. Bisu just played stupidly greedy in trying to fill out his entire tech tree while harassing.... and didn't make any units. A 2reaver push off of 2 bases isn't allin at all
i think stork cut his probe production and went for a timing all-in kill. god that game looked way too easy stork is on fire
A timing "allin" kill? That was far from an allin, he was just exploiting the fact Bisu had NO ARMY because he rushed DTs and was stopped by safe obs-first play.
i have to see the vod, but as far as i remember his economy was really really bad. he invested all his money to make a huge army. i didn't want to critize his strat, it was the perfect counter to bisu's dt and perfectly executed. all i wanted to say is that if it didnt work for whatever reason bisu would have had an advantage.
Cant call that allin...stork scouted everything and decided it was the best move. Its like if you scout 3 nexus before gate, and you throw down a shit ton of production buildings...
edit: or if you scout them expanding and teching multiple paths at the same time...
On January 13 2011 20:14 Garrl wrote: Stork played safe and won.
i think stork cut his probe production and went for a timing all-in kill. god that game looked way too easy stork is on fire
A timing "allin" kill? That was far from an allin, he was just exploiting the fact Bisu had NO ARMY because he rushed DTs and was stopped by safe obs-first play.
Was definitely an all-in push.
Bisu expoed earlier, better economy, had better tech, had better upgrades. The only advantage Stork did have was in army, which he cut everything else, and added 2 extra gateways, increasing that advatange.
Had Bisu somehow held that attack, Bisu would've taken the game. But alas, Stork had a beautiful attack.
WHAT allin attack? Have you played sc at all... that was just a timing push
from the sound of it, it was all-in.
not to say all-in is bad at all--why do people have this concept that all-in is bad???
stork saw that bisu was economically ahead but lacking in army, so he decided he had to attack soon before the economic advantage kicked in. to do that, he probably had to sacrifice at least a little of his own economy. if his bigger army somehow failed to do damage, he would've been dead.
edit: ok apparently people have different concept of all-in. here by "dead" i mean he would have a serious disadvantage that could only be overcome by a huge blunder on bisu's part. this is certainly not the same as a double proxy gate or something... stork obviously still had some economy.
On January 13 2011 20:14 Garrl wrote: Stork played safe and won.
i think stork cut his probe production and went for a timing all-in kill. god that game looked way too easy stork is on fire
A timing "allin" kill? That was far from an allin, he was just exploiting the fact Bisu had NO ARMY because he rushed DTs and was stopped by safe obs-first play.
i have to see the vod, but as far as i remember his economy was really really bad. he invested all his money to make a huge army. i didn't want to critize his strat, it was the perfect counter to bisu's dt and perfectly executed. all i wanted to say is that if it didnt work for whatever reason bisu would have had an advantage.
His economy was perfect for a normal pvp build. Its just that Bisu had better economy going tech + economy + harras at the same time. WIll never work against Stork or any decent toss.
On January 13 2011 20:14 Garrl wrote: Stork played safe and won.
i think stork cut his probe production and went for a timing all-in kill. god that game looked way too easy stork is on fire
A timing "allin" kill? That was far from an allin, he was just exploiting the fact Bisu had NO ARMY because he rushed DTs and was stopped by safe obs-first play.
stork cut probes for ages to get all the gates up. If that attack failed he would've been hugely behind economically. hence allin
He couldn't have failed. He was in Bisu's base the whole time and knew full well Bisu didn't have his gateways up. This was purely on Bisu for not playing safe while playing blind, when his opponent wasn't.
On January 13 2011 20:09 ArvickHero wrote: Bisu with a nice advantage here, if he can hold off this incoming attack/harass
Isn't Stork at an advantage right now?
If Bisu had kept his shit back at his nat and used those HT to storm off the enemy army, he would've had the advantage of having faster Templar tech, better upgrades and I think he also had a faster expo.
The problem of his BO are forge plus canons though. And he would not have stopped that push with two HTs, he needed more gates. I'm not even sure he had range, but hey...
Not true.
This is a standard DT expand... if you don't build cannons you DIE straight up to enemy dark templar and any 2-3gate obs mass dragoon attacks.
The issue was he went for a robo + obs + goon range + storm drop and didn't make any units. If he had exploded up to 4-5 gates he might have won the game
We've seen plenty of DT FE games, complete with cannons to hold off the counterpush and they are not so simply decided as a "BO loss" just because the observer came out. In fact I've often stared at the BO and thought "so imba" because of the fast templar tech which the cannons protect.
Stork's response was perfect, I couldn't tell you if he cut probes and "all-in" is a bit strong but he was behind on tech and $$ so he needed to make something like that happen. He hit just before goon range, too.
Bisu's response was to take his first templars and fly them around the map lol
yea sure that's maybe an all in but that's like an all in knowing that you have the nuts, a Royal Straight Flush and there is no way you can lose that.
I don't see how some make it sound like a bad thing.
i think stork cut his probe production and went for a timing all-in kill. god that game looked way too easy stork is on fire
A timing "allin" kill? That was far from an allin, he was just exploiting the fact Bisu had NO ARMY because he rushed DTs and was stopped by safe obs-first play.
yup, needed a crack in bisu's already low unit count, and the first two templars leaving position was the perfect time to do it.
On January 13 2011 20:25 weiliem wrote: People tend to get confused between all in and timing push.... stork's attack is a timing push, u wont call a 5 fac timing push an all in wont u?? =.=
Just because it was a good move doesn't mean it wasn't allin. If you cut probes for several minutes to make a big attack force. If something goes wrong in the attack (say your shuttle + reavers get sniped and your army gets stormed and you get held off, or bisu goes obs first and scouts it and cannons up), then you're basically screwed. your opponents economy eclipses yours by so much you cant get back in the game. So yes, stork was allin. it wasn't "cheesy" or anything. it was a good move, but it WAS allin
On January 13 2011 20:14 Garrl wrote: Stork played safe and won.
i think stork cut his probe production and went for a timing all-in kill. god that game looked way too easy stork is on fire
A timing "allin" kill? That was far from an allin, he was just exploiting the fact Bisu had NO ARMY because he rushed DTs and was stopped by safe obs-first play.
stork cut probes for ages to get all the gates up. If that attack failed he would've been hugely behind economically. hence allin
He couldn't have failed. He was in Bisu's base the whole time and knew full well Bisu didn't have his gateways up. This was purely on Bisu for not playing safe while playing blind, when his opponent wasn't.
This post is oozing with truth. There was no way Stork could have failed in that attack, and he attacked with the pure intention of finishing the game right there. Only Bisu is to blame for choosing a non-standard build against a cerebral opponent such as Stork.
Look guys, 4gate goon 2reaver at this timing is NOT an all-in. The player with templar tech is behind on units, but a bit ahead on economy(~40 seconds gametime earlier nexus, not very significant) - and tech. These thing even out. Goon/reaver army would've been more effective; with only 2HTs the reavers'd stay alive and deal damage. For that fight, even if Bisu had no robo/obs, he'd barely defend.
Leaving aside the fact that Bisu made a shuttle and started +1 and range and stork had obs seeing it all... There are some possible scenarios. 1)Bisu gets no robo but up to 4gate as well. His army is strong and he'd defend, but he can't really attack without obs. If Stork is catching up on tech(which he pretty much has to), he'd get DTs to defend the counter and it'd be even game.
2)Bisu gets robo, and later 3rd/4th game. It's hard to defend for Bisu, Stork has a window for dealing damage with more cost-effective force (simply due to having more ranged stuff). Then, after the fight, Bisu'd have more tech; but same/less army(if you count travel time to Stork's base). With later and less gateways, during the time that Bisu is adding gates, getting an army, and traveling to Stork's nat, Stork can get HT/storm for himself as well.
All-in would be a 6 or 7 gate goon/reaver push with severe probe cut. Stork didn't cut any probes at all. Okaaay, maybe a few. Not much. He went 2gate -> shuttle -> 3gate -> reaver -> 4gate -> reaver, or something along these lines. It's easy to support it from 2base without cutting probes.
On January 13 2011 20:27 Kiante wrote: Just because it was a good move doesn't mean it wasn't allin. If you cut probes for several minutes to make a big attack force. If something goes wrong in the attack (say your shuttle + reavers get sniped and your army gets stormed and you get held off, or bisu goes obs first and scouts it and cannons up), then you're basically screwed. your opponents economy eclipses yours by so much you cant get back in the game. So yes, stork was allin. it wasn't "cheesy" or anything. it was a good move, but it WAS allin
Gee i didn't know maybe 30 seconds = several minutes
Really, Bisu's decision to take those crucial first two high templar to harass was the stupidest thing I ever saw.
And I'm not really agreeing with getting the robo instead of additional gates here, I mean obs give really good intel I guess, but whats the most Stork could've done? Bisu had two DTs out on the map so its not like he wouldn't have been able to scout a megafast third like Stats did in the PL Finals, and if not that its pretty much definitely going to be a heavy Reaver/Dragoon push. The fact that Bisu didn't even see that push coming was a huge oversight on his part, should've kept a DT by the bridge to see when he moved out so he could prepare accordingly
On January 13 2011 20:14 Garrl wrote: Stork played safe and won.
i think stork cut his probe production and went for a timing all-in kill. god that game looked way too easy stork is on fire
A timing "allin" kill? That was far from an allin, he was just exploiting the fact Bisu had NO ARMY because he rushed DTs and was stopped by safe obs-first play.
Was definitely an all-in push.
Bisu expoed earlier, better economy, had better tech, had better upgrades. The only advantage Stork did have was in army, which he cut everything else, and added 2 extra gateways, increasing that advatange.
Had Bisu somehow held that attack, Bisu would've taken the game. But alas, Stork had a beautiful attack.
WHAT allin attack? Have you played sc at all... that was just a timing push
from the sound of it, it was all-in.
not to say all-in is bad at all--why do people have this concept that all-in is bad???
stork saw that bisu was economically ahead but lacking in army, so he decided he had to attack soon before the economic advantage kicked in. to do that, he probably had to sacrifice at least a little of his own economy. if his bigger army somehow failed to do damage, he would've been dead.
edit: ok apparently people have different concept of all-in. here by "dead" i mean he would have a serious disadvantage that could only be overcome by a huge blunder on bisu's part. this is certainly not the same as a double proxy gate or something... stork obviously still had some economy.
i like how the SKT fans claiming that its an all in... and when bisu does that, its a perfect timing push... lol... everybody will cut probes or scvs for timing pushes. if opponent expands and u dont expand but mass and army for a timing push, thats called all in?? i really cant understand those skt fans, too much fan boyism
On January 13 2011 20:09 ArvickHero wrote: Bisu with a nice advantage here, if he can hold off this incoming attack/harass
Isn't Stork at an advantage right now?
If Bisu had kept his shit back at his nat and used those HT to storm off the enemy army, he would've had the advantage of having faster Templar tech, better upgrades and I think he also had a faster expo.
The problem of his BO are forge plus canons though. And he would not have stopped that push with two HTs, he needed more gates. I'm not even sure he had range, but hey...
Not true.
This is a standard DT expand... if you don't build cannons you DIE straight up to enemy dark templar and any 2-3gate obs mass dragoon attacks.
The issue was he went for a robo + obs + goon range + storm drop and didn't make any units. If he had exploded up to 4-5 gates he might have won the game
Ohh I agree with that, you need the forge. And I think that's partly why it's a lot harder vs obs first.
On January 13 2011 20:27 Kiante wrote: Just because it was a good move doesn't mean it wasn't allin. If you cut probes for several minutes to make a big attack force. If something goes wrong in the attack (say your shuttle + reavers get sniped and your army gets stormed and you get held off, or bisu goes obs first and scouts it and cannons up), then you're basically screwed. your opponents economy eclipses yours by so much you cant get back in the game. So yes, stork was allin. it wasn't "cheesy" or anything. it was a good move, but it WAS allin
He didnt cut probes for that long I believe.
Also he has obs in bisu's base and know the gateway count/unit count. He is far ahead in Goon Count, 4 gate vs 2. And with the 2 reavers + shuttle there is very very little chance that he will screw up that attack.
He just found a weakness in Bisu's build and exploited it.
On January 13 2011 20:33 ArvickHero wrote: also if you guys were watching the rep, Bisu's gate count was 4
He got last 2 late. I think he got them after he started +1/range/robo - as in, they'd make 0 units in time of fight. Perhaps one wave. While Stork's made 2-3.
Well, you've seen how not-close the fight was. Pretty sure having 2 HT at home would not save him either.
On January 13 2011 20:33 ArvickHero wrote: also if you guys were watching the rep, Bisu's gate count was 4
Added later if I'm not wrong ?
it was later, but not by much. Bisu just needed his fuckin HT at his base, and a couple more cannons to compensate (since he had the econ lead anyways)
It's still mindboggling to me how he could've even thought that sending 2 HT out to try to harass was a good idea. I'm wondering how exactly his practice games went when he thought this was a good idea.
On January 13 2011 20:29 ArvickHero wrote: Really, Bisu's decision to take those crucial first two high templar to harass was the stupidest thing I ever saw.
And I'm not really agreeing with getting the robo instead of additional gates here, I mean obs give really good intel I guess, but whats the most Stork could've done? Bisu had two DTs out on the map so its not like he wouldn't have been able to scout a megafast third like Stats did in the PL Finals, and if not that its pretty much definitely going to be a heavy Reaver/Dragoon push. The fact that Bisu didn't even see that push coming was a huge oversight on his part, should've kept a DT by the bridge to see when he moved out so he could prepare accordingly
maybe bisu thought he could have slip his dts into stork's base when he pushed.
On January 13 2011 20:33 ArvickHero wrote: also if you guys were watching the rep, Bisu's gate count was 4
He got last 2 late. I think he got them after he started +1/range/robo - as in, they'd make 0 units in time of fight. Perhaps one wave. While Stork's made 2-3.
Well, you've seen how not-close the fight was. Pretty sure having 2 HT at home would not save him either.
Yeah, Stork looked like he had twice the number of goons Bisu had AND he had to travel cross-position to get there in the first place. Whatever Bisu's gateway count was, he certainly didn't make units like a 4-gateway toss. So the last 2 were likely very, very late.
Calling Stork's build an all-in is just disingenuous. If Stork had no scouting and did the exact same build, then it would be an all-in. But with the scouting, it's just smart play.
You can also compare their tech tree that wasn't shared
On January 13 2011 20:31 weiliem wrote: i like how the SKT fans claiming that its an all in... and when bisu does that, its a perfect timing push... lol... everybody will cut probes or scvs for timing pushes. if opponent expands and u dont expand but mass and army for a timing push, thats called all in?? i really cant understand those skt fans, too much fan boyism
That's totally uncalled for. Looks like you're the one with too much fanboyism for your own team, pointing out SKT fans from the rest. Guess team tags and a chance to criticize others is all you look for in comments.
This is an allin 2 base play... what Stork did was just a timing attack and with a 99% chance of wining. You can support 4 gate from one base and Stork had 2 full saturated bases... in a way you can say Bisu did an allin ( super greedy play )
On January 13 2011 20:29 ArvickHero wrote: Really, Bisu's decision to take those crucial first two high templar to harass was the stupidest thing I ever saw.
And I'm not really agreeing with getting the robo instead of additional gates here, I mean obs give really good intel I guess, but whats the most Stork could've done? Bisu had two DTs out on the map so its not like he wouldn't have been able to scout a megafast third like Stats did in the PL Finals, and if not that its pretty much definitely going to be a heavy Reaver/Dragoon push. The fact that Bisu didn't even see that push coming was a huge oversight on his part, should've kept a DT by the bridge to see when he moved out so he could prepare accordingly
maybe bisu thought he could have slip his dts into stork's base when he pushed.
slpping DTs in would be better
but he actually loaded HTs into the shuttle and wanted to do a storm drop lawl
Maybe Bisu trusted to much in the cross position, not thinking stork would dare to push out with DTs on the map and knowing a HT or DT drop could come.
I'm sure why bisu opened this build. The cross positions, bridges and small entrance to nat. He used the most direct build to late game pvp, didnt expect stork as macro player to play aggressive.
On January 13 2011 20:29 ArvickHero wrote: Really, Bisu's decision to take those crucial first two high templar to harass was the stupidest thing I ever saw.
And I'm not really agreeing with getting the robo instead of additional gates here, I mean obs give really good intel I guess, but whats the most Stork could've done? Bisu had two DTs out on the map so its not like he wouldn't have been able to scout a megafast third like Stats did in the PL Finals, and if not that its pretty much definitely going to be a heavy Reaver/Dragoon push. The fact that Bisu didn't even see that push coming was a huge oversight on his part, should've kept a DT by the bridge to see when he moved out so he could prepare accordingly
maybe bisu thought he could have slip his dts into stork's base when he pushed.
slpping DTs in would be better
but he actually loaded HTs into the shuttle and wanted to do a storm drop lawl
can't slip in any DT's if you don't know when the bloody army is moving out. I'm so angry at Bisu for making such huge strategical blunders..
Btw, the OP's recommended game section should be changed. Bisu had the BO advantage. Quicker expansion on cross-positions is not a disadvantage. And going straight to templar tech, skipping reavers, is actually a good thing provided you play correctly.
On January 13 2011 20:29 ArvickHero wrote: Really, Bisu's decision to take those crucial first two high templar to harass was the stupidest thing I ever saw.
And I'm not really agreeing with getting the robo instead of additional gates here, I mean obs give really good intel I guess, but whats the most Stork could've done? Bisu had two DTs out on the map so its not like he wouldn't have been able to scout a megafast third like Stats did in the PL Finals, and if not that its pretty much definitely going to be a heavy Reaver/Dragoon push. The fact that Bisu didn't even see that push coming was a huge oversight on his part, should've kept a DT by the bridge to see when he moved out so he could prepare accordingly
maybe bisu thought he could have slip his dts into stork's base when he pushed.
slpping DTs in would be better
but he actually loaded HTs into the shuttle and wanted to do a storm drop lawl
can't slip in any DT's if you don't know when the bloody army is moving out. I'm so angry at Bisu for making such huge strategical blunders..
Stork scouted for DTs on his path with a few goons before moving out with the rest of his army. Stork's attention to detail in this game was absolutely AMAZING. Bisu, like Jaedong yesterday, was basically caught with his pants down.
On January 13 2011 20:45 baubo wrote: Btw, the OP's recommended game section should be changed. Bisu had the BO advantage. Quicker expansion on cross-positions is not a disadvantage. And going straight to templar tech, skipping reavers, is actually a good thing provided you play correctly.
On January 13 2011 20:29 ArvickHero wrote: Really, Bisu's decision to take those crucial first two high templar to harass was the stupidest thing I ever saw.
And I'm not really agreeing with getting the robo instead of additional gates here, I mean obs give really good intel I guess, but whats the most Stork could've done? Bisu had two DTs out on the map so its not like he wouldn't have been able to scout a megafast third like Stats did in the PL Finals, and if not that its pretty much definitely going to be a heavy Reaver/Dragoon push. The fact that Bisu didn't even see that push coming was a huge oversight on his part, should've kept a DT by the bridge to see when he moved out so he could prepare accordingly
maybe bisu thought he could have slip his dts into stork's base when he pushed.
slpping DTs in would be better
but he actually loaded HTs into the shuttle and wanted to do a storm drop lawl
can't slip in any DT's if you don't know when the bloody army is moving out. I'm so angry at Bisu for making such huge strategical blunders..
Stork scouted for DTs on his path with a few goons before moving out with the rest of his army. Stork's attention to detail in this game was absolutely AMAZING. Bisu, like Jaedong yesterday, was basically caught with his pants down.
Yeah. Bisu actually had the scouting advantage by killing Storks probe first and then immdiately cancelling goon range opting for quick dt's. Op please change =]
i think stork's style of play is very attractive. if jaedong's more of a mechanical type, stork's more of a strategic type. not that jaedong isn't strategic but when stork's strategy works, he's so good at hitting you right when you're weak (or like right before you become extremely strong) so he just steamrolls you, making the opponent look like crap.
kind of like jaedong: suzaku and stork: lelouch....okay not exactly.
On January 13 2011 20:33 ArvickHero wrote: also if you guys were watching the rep, Bisu's gate count was 4
Added later if I'm not wrong ?
it was later, but not by much. Bisu just needed his fuckin HT at his base, and a couple more cannons to compensate (since he had the econ lead anyways)
It's still mindboggling to me how he could've even thought that sending 2 HT out to try to harass was a good idea. I'm wondering how exactly his practice games went when he thought this was a good idea.
On January 13 2011 20:59 kwkwookw wrote: i think stork's style of play is very attractive. if jaedong's more of a mechanical type, stork's more of a strategic type. not that jaedong isn't strategic but when stork's strategy works, he's so good at hitting you right when you're weak (or like right before you become extremely strong) so he just steamrolls you, making the opponent look like crap.
thanks for those of you who contribute to these threads, as i missed the game and could NOT wait for the VODs to go up to find the results, regardless of how lightning fast moktira uploads them lol
He said he thinks the style of play is very attractive; have you ever heard anyone call Flash's style attractive? I haven't, because it's totally fucking boring.
On January 13 2011 21:30 Holgerius wrote: He said he thinks the style of play is very attractive; have you ever heard anyone call Flash's style attractive? I haven't, because it's totally fucking boring.
+1 flash is good. no question about that. but id rather watch D- players than watch flash. at least you get some entertainment out of how bad they are
On January 13 2011 21:30 Holgerius wrote: He said he thinks the style of play is very attractive; have you ever heard anyone call Flash's style attractive? I haven't, because it's totally fucking boring.
+1 flash is good. no question about that. but id rather watch D- players than watch flash. at least you get some entertainment out of how bad they are
Bah you have no taste. Watching seasoned professionals who have dedicated years to BW get brutally dismantled with methodical precision is very much worth watching. Love the "wtf how do you beat that" moments.
On January 13 2011 21:30 Holgerius wrote: He said he thinks the style of play is very attractive; have you ever heard anyone call Flash's style attractive? I haven't, because it's totally fucking boring.
+1 flash is good. no question about that. but id rather watch D- players than watch flash. at least you get some entertainment out of how bad they are
wtf? I love watching Flash play O_o I always cheer against him in KT SKT games though
On January 13 2011 21:15 arbiter_md wrote: When is KT vs Khan winners league game? We might have a new bonjwa here. Well, a starting point I mean.
God, it's ridiculous how much people are overhyping Stork lately. Stork is nowhere close to being a bonjwa. He could get dual golds this season and he still wouldn't be close to being bonjwa. When he can consistently do well in proleague and starleagues over several seasons, including consistently beating the other top players in Bo5s, then maybe he'll be bonjwa material. Beating Bisu in a Bo3 and beating JD in proleague, and making it to the Ro4/Ro8 of the OSL/MSL doesn't make you a rising bonjwa.
On January 13 2011 20:31 weiliem wrote: i like how the SKT fans claiming that its an all in... and when bisu does that, its a perfect timing push... lol... everybody will cut probes or scvs for timing pushes. if opponent expands and u dont expand but mass and army for a timing push, thats called all in?? i really cant understand those skt fans, too much fan boyism
That's totally uncalled for. Looks like you're the one with too much fanboyism for your own team, pointing out SKT fans from the rest. Guess team tags and a chance to criticize others is all you look for in comments.
So i am suppose to state bisu fans instead of SKT fans? sry then... cause most of the comments that points out about all-in are with the SKT logo
On January 13 2011 21:15 arbiter_md wrote: When is KT vs Khan winners league game? We might have a new bonjwa here. Well, a starting point I mean.
God, it's ridiculous how much people are overhyping Stork lately. Stork is nowhere close to being a bonjwa. He could get dual golds this season and he still wouldn't be close to being bonjwa. When he can consistently do well in proleague and starleagues over several seasons, including consistently beating the other top players in Bo5s, then maybe he'll be bonjwa material. Beating Bisu in a Bo3 and beating JD in proleague, and making it to the Ro4/Ro8 of the OSL/MSL doesn't make you a rising bonjwa.
who said bonjwa?
stork is extremely solid, and its fun to hype the protoss who is currently doing well - why be negative toward that motion?
you go to korea and get to the ro4 and i'll tell everyone not to cheer for you lol
Stork deserves a ton of hype, yes, but I agree that he's nowhere near bonjwa. Flash had to reach dual finals 3 times in a row, winning vs JD (the obviously second best player in the world during that time) in three consecutive finals before people finally accepted him as such.
On January 13 2011 20:59 kwkwookw wrote: i think stork's style of play is very attractive. if jaedong's more of a mechanical type, stork's more of a strategic type. not that jaedong isn't strategic but when stork's strategy works, he's so good at hitting you right when you're weak (or like right before you become extremely strong) so he just steamrolls you, making the opponent look like crap.
I think you're confusing Stork with Flash.
You mean like how Flash attacked Zero with perfect timing of 100+ turrets? I guess in a way it's true. He attacked Zero's weakness for being zerg on a map where zerg can't expand everywhere.
There are fundamental differences between Protoss and Terran. There's a reason why there are no protosses who have mastered the art of turtling.
On January 13 2011 21:30 Holgerius wrote: He said he thinks the style of play is very attractive; have you ever heard anyone call Flash's style attractive? I haven't, because it's totally fucking boring.
+1 flash is good. no question about that. but id rather watch D- players than watch flash. at least you get some entertainment out of how bad they are
wtf? I love watching Flash play O_o I always cheer against him in KT SKT games though
I don't find his play/games boring at all, they are usually outststanding.
On January 13 2011 20:59 kwkwookw wrote: i think stork's style of play is very attractive. if jaedong's more of a mechanical type, stork's more of a strategic type. not that jaedong isn't strategic but when stork's strategy works, he's so good at hitting you right when you're weak (or like right before you become extremely strong) so he just steamrolls you, making the opponent look like crap.
I think you're confusing Stork with Flash.
You mean like how Flash attacked Zero with perfect timing of 100+ turrets? I guess in a way it's true. He attacked Zero's weakness for being zerg on a map where zerg can't expand everywhere.
There are fundamental differences between Protoss and Terran. There's a reason why there are no protosses who have mastered the art of turtling.
Yeah, because a player's playstyle is defined by a single game. Hey, remember that game where Flash beat Best by harassing him to death with dropships? That must mean Flash is all about econ harass based play just like Bisu!
On January 13 2011 21:15 arbiter_md wrote: When is KT vs Khan winners league game? We might have a new bonjwa here. Well, a starting point I mean.
God, it's ridiculous how much people are overhyping Stork lately. Stork is nowhere close to being a bonjwa. He could get dual golds this season and he still wouldn't be close to being bonjwa. When he can consistently do well in proleague and starleagues over several seasons, including consistently beating the other top players in Bo5s, then maybe he'll be bonjwa material. Beating Bisu in a Bo3 and beating JD in proleague, and making it to the Ro4/Ro8 of the OSL/MSL doesn't make you a rising bonjwa.
How to become bonjwa with protoss? Proven only Terran can, Zerg are just part timers like savior and jaedong. This is the reason everyone cheer stork.
On January 13 2011 20:42 Baddieko wrote: I'm sure why bisu opened this build. The cross positions, bridges and small entrance to nat. He used the most direct build to late game pvp, didnt expect stork as macro player to play aggressive.
its the size of the map, if you watch the game youll see bisu dodging the obs path with his dt. That would normally allow or the dt timing to catch stork off guard, because with an observer on the other corner of the map (longest possible distance) bisu could do a ton of damage, the key to this game is that stork both noticed a dt with his dragoon and that he counted the goons guarding bisu's base, and thus built a second obs and made a wall with his units instead of immediately getting a shuttle and reaver. At that point bisu needed to buy time because storks build (since it wasnt fast tech) had him at 4 gates to 2 (and actually 3 to 1) at one point, so he moved the shuttle out hoping to get some time. What then happened was stork saw the shuttle move out and contrary to popular belief was trying to catch the shuttle (watch where his goons go) and secure his win, when the shuttle wasnt there (bisu moves it because he sees that stork saw his shuttle because of goon movement) he realizes his shuttle either a, went the long way around to slip past goons or b, is ridiculously out of position dodging his goons, both of which tell him that the time to attack is now. Stork was not really aggressive he just played out his build order advantage correctly, before bisu had the gates to match stork.
On January 13 2011 20:42 Baddieko wrote: I'm sure why bisu opened this build. The cross positions, bridges and small entrance to nat. He used the most direct build to late game pvp, didnt expect stork as macro player to play aggressive.
its the size of the map, if you watch the game youll see bisu dodging the obs path with his dt. That would normally allow or the dt timing to catch stork off guard, because with an observer on the other corner of the map (longest possible distance) bisu could do a ton of damage, the key to this game is that stork both noticed a dt with his dragoon and that he counted the goons guarding bisu's base, and thus built a second obs and made a wall with his units instead of immediately getting a shuttle and reaver. At that point bisu needed to buy time because storks build (since it wasnt fast tech) had him at 4 gates to 2 (and actually 3 to 1) at one point, so he moved the shuttle out hoping to get some time. What then happened was stork saw the shuttle move out and contrary to popular belief was trying to catch the shuttle (watch where his goons go) not go all in or timing attack and secure his win, when the shuttle wasnt there (bisu moves it because he sees that stork saw his shuttle because of goon movement) he realizes his shuttle either a, went the long way around to slip past goons or b, is ridiculously out of position dodging his goons, both of which tell him that the time to attack is now. Stork was not really aggressive he just played out his build order advantage correctly, before bisu had the gates to match stork.
On January 13 2011 20:42 Baddieko wrote: I'm sure why bisu opened this build. The cross positions, bridges and small entrance to nat. He used the most direct build to late game pvp, didnt expect stork as macro player to play aggressive.
its the size of the map, if you watch the game youll see bisu dodging the obs path with his dt. That would normally allow or the dt timing to catch stork off guard, because with an observer on the other corner of the map (longest possible distance) bisu could do a ton of damage, the key to this game is that stork both noticed a dt with his dragoon and that he counted the goons guarding bisu's base, and thus built a second obs and made a wall with his units instead of immediately getting a shuttle and reaver. At that point bisu needed to buy time because storks build (since it wasnt fast tech) had him at 4 gates to 2 (and actually 3 to 1) at one point, so he moved the shuttle out hoping to get some time. What then happened was stork saw the shuttle move out and contrary to popular belief was trying to catch the shuttle (watch where his goons go) not go all in or timing attack and secure his win, when the shuttle wasnt there (bisu moves it because he sees that stork saw his shuttle because of goon movement) he realizes his shuttle either a, went the long way around to slip past goons or b, is ridiculously out of position dodging his goons, both of which tell him that the time to attack is now. Stork was not really aggressive he just played out his build order advantage correctly, before bisu had the gates to match stork.
On January 13 2011 20:42 Baddieko wrote: I'm sure why bisu opened this build. The cross positions, bridges and small entrance to nat. He used the most direct build to late game pvp, didnt expect stork as macro player to play aggressive.
its the size of the map, if you watch the game youll see bisu dodging the obs path with his dt. That would normally allow or the dt timing to catch stork off guard, because with an observer on the other corner of the map (longest possible distance) bisu could do a ton of damage, the key to this game is that stork both noticed a dt with his dragoon and that he counted the goons guarding bisu's base, and thus built a second obs and made a wall with his units instead of immediately getting a shuttle and reaver. At that point bisu needed to buy time because storks build (since it wasnt fast tech) had him at 4 gates to 2 (and actually 3 to 1) at one point, so he moved the shuttle out hoping to get some time. What then happened was stork saw the shuttle move out and contrary to popular belief was trying to catch the shuttle (watch where his goons go) and secure his win, when the shuttle wasnt there (bisu moves it because he sees that stork saw his shuttle because of goon movement) he realizes his shuttle either a, went the long way around to slip past goons or b, is ridiculously out of position dodging his goons, both of which tell him that the time to attack is now. Stork was not really aggressive he just played out his build order advantage correctly, before bisu had the gates to match stork.
yeah the 2nd obs made the win easy. Stork is really detailed in starcraft by knowing bisu's resource count, i didnt see him get the 2nd obs after 1st obs in pvp before.
On January 13 2011 20:31 weiliem wrote: i like how the SKT fans claiming that its an all in... and when bisu does that, its a perfect timing push... lol... everybody will cut probes or scvs for timing pushes. if opponent expands and u dont expand but mass and army for a timing push, thats called all in?? i really cant understand those skt fans, too much fan boyism
That's totally uncalled for. Looks like you're the one with too much fanboyism for your own team, pointing out SKT fans from the rest. Guess team tags and a chance to criticize others is all you look for in comments.
So i am suppose to state bisu fans instead of SKT fans? sry then... cause most of the comments that points out about all-in are with the SKT logo
You don't have to point out any fans of [insert whatever here]. Looking down on other people is wrong; they most likely made a genuine mistake. It's just a coincidence that most people who thought Bisu did an all-in have the SKT logo, whether they were upset over Bisu's loss or not.
Even though SKT and KT fans normally "dislike" each other, that's a bit too harsh to call SKT fans wrong because they were blinded by fanboyism, when we could say the same about KT fans in any other situation where they make a mistake, or heck, any other team's fans.
So let's avoid the team/fan bashing, okay? Save that stuff when SKT faces off against KT next time.
It makes me so ill inside thinking of the number of times there have been Zerg heavy playoff pools and Bisu has ALWAYS been drawn against T/P. I mean if he has to meet Stork in the Ro4 and loses then fine, at least we get a Bo5 and he can shown he is capable of making a semi-final again. To go out in the Ro16 though vs. one of the two players in the field who could beat him just hurts though
On January 13 2011 21:30 Holgerius wrote: He said he thinks the style of play is very attractive; have you ever heard anyone call Flash's style attractive? I haven't, because it's totally fucking boring.
You can't really think this, can you? I can understand it from a 7-post noobie but an ~8700 post forum veteran with a KT icon? What the fuck? ----
Flash is easily the most dynamic and interesting terran player to watch. He varies his builds almost every game, and has an absolutely ridiculous win-rate doing it. He wins using every strategy you can possibly think of to win with, and a lot you can't. He'll bunker rush a 12 nexus after scouting it late, he'll use dropships and utterly embarrass Best in his strongest matchup on his favorite map; TvZ he has unorthodox infantry timings vs zerg to deny their third that require impeccable micro vs lings and mutas to not get raped (and thus few other terran players really even attempt -- and honestly he occasionally shouldn't, since it occasionally loses him an OSL finals), and don't even get me started on how his marines often seem to be invincible to lurkers; his TvT at his worst involves throwing away countless units and still making a game of it with impeccable macro, and at his best is a fucking vice closing on your throat one expansion at a time. His defense is incredible, his attacks are at insane timings, his control is often so astonishingly good that it's ridiculous. Any player who is capable of beating him is a testament to countless hours of hard work, and these days it's hard to call most of flash's rare losses anything but flukes.
And I'm not even a flash fanboy: you have to give credit where it's due. He's hands down the most skilled terran to ever play the game and he's goddamn impressive to watch. If anyone thinks otherwise, they're not a fan of starcraft, end of discussion.
On January 13 2011 20:42 Baddieko wrote: I'm sure why bisu opened this build. The cross positions, bridges and small entrance to nat. He used the most direct build to late game pvp, didnt expect stork as macro player to play aggressive.
its the size of the map, if you watch the game youll see bisu dodging the obs path with his dt. That would normally allow or the dt timing to catch stork off guard, because with an observer on the other corner of the map (longest possible distance) bisu could do a ton of damage, the key to this game is that stork both noticed a dt with his dragoon and that he counted the goons guarding bisu's base, and thus built a second obs and made a wall with his units instead of immediately getting a shuttle and reaver. At that point bisu needed to buy time because storks build (since it wasnt fast tech) had him at 4 gates to 2 (and actually 3 to 1) at one point, so he moved the shuttle out hoping to get some time. What then happened was stork saw the shuttle move out and contrary to popular belief was trying to catch the shuttle (watch where his goons go) not go all in or timing attack and secure his win, when the shuttle wasnt there (bisu moves it because he sees that stork saw his shuttle because of goon movement) he realizes his shuttle either a, went the long way around to slip past goons or b, is ridiculously out of position dodging his goons, both of which tell him that the time to attack is now. Stork was not really aggressive he just played out his build order advantage correctly, before bisu had the gates to match stork.
On January 13 2011 21:30 Holgerius wrote: He said he thinks the style of play is very attractive; have you ever heard anyone call Flash's style attractive? I haven't, because it's totally fucking boring.
You can't really think this, can you? I can understand it from a 7-post noobie but an ~8700 post forum veteran with a KT icon? What the fuck? ----
Flash is easily the most dynamic and interesting terran player to watch. He varies his builds almost every game, and has an absolutely ridiculous win-rate doing it. He wins using every strategy you can possibly think of to win with, and a lot you can't. He'll bunker rush a 12 nexus after scouting it late, he'll use dropships and utterly embarrass Best in his strongest matchup on his favorite map; TvZ he has unorthodox infantry timings vs zerg to deny their third that require impeccable micro vs lings and mutas to not get raped (and thus few other terran players really even attempt -- and honestly he occasionally shouldn't, since it occasionally loses him an OSL finals), and don't even get me started on how his marines often seem to be invincible to lurkers; his TvT at his worst involves throwing away countless units and still making a game of it with impeccable macro, and at his best is a fucking vice closing on your throat one expansion at a time. His defense is incredible, his attacks are at insane timings, his control is often so astonishingly good that it's ridiculous. Any player who is capable of beating him is a testament to countless hours of hard work, and these days it's hard to call most of flash's rare losses anything but flukes.
And I'm not even a flash fanboy: you have to give credit where it's due. He's hands down the most skilled terran to ever play the game and he's goddamn impressive to watch. If anyone thinks otherwise, they're not a fan of starcraft, end of discussion.
I read a first few lines of your post and I must say... Not enough skill in detecting sarcasm.
On January 13 2011 20:42 Baddieko wrote: I'm sure why bisu opened this build. The cross positions, bridges and small entrance to nat. He used the most direct build to late game pvp, didnt expect stork as macro player to play aggressive.
its the size of the map, if you watch the game youll see bisu dodging the obs path with his dt. That would normally allow or the dt timing to catch stork off guard, because with an observer on the other corner of the map (longest possible distance) bisu could do a ton of damage, the key to this game is that stork both noticed a dt with his dragoon and that he counted the goons guarding bisu's base, and thus built a second obs and made a wall with his units instead of immediately getting a shuttle and reaver. At that point bisu needed to buy time because storks build (since it wasnt fast tech) had him at 4 gates to 2 (and actually 3 to 1) at one point, so he moved the shuttle out hoping to get some time. What then happened was stork saw the shuttle move out and contrary to popular belief was trying to catch the shuttle (watch where his goons go) and secure his win, when the shuttle wasnt there (bisu moves it because he sees that stork saw his shuttle because of goon movement) he realizes his shuttle either a, went the long way around to slip past goons or b, is ridiculously out of position dodging his goons, both of which tell him that the time to attack is now. Stork was not really aggressive he just played out his build order advantage correctly, before bisu had the gates to match stork.
Yeah, it's totally this. If you watch the minimap, all game long Stork was playing reactionary to what Bisu was doing. Stork's decision making and game sense is crazy good right now. I haven't seen Stork's early game PvZ in a while so I'm looking forward to Stork vs Modesty. As far as the mid-game and beyond, Stork is looking pretty unbeatable at the moment.
as someone has said before Stork might be hitting a second career peek. I guess there must be some very special reason that he is now pushing himself to escape the sea of mediocrity that he was in during the first half of 2010. also, KT vs Khan is going to be an epic acid test for Stork. That is, provided that he (or Flash) could be sent. I remember Flash defeated all TaekBangLee during his rampage of the last SWL. Imagine if Stork defeats TaekLeeSsang within just one week this time? lol mind = blown.
On January 13 2011 21:30 Holgerius wrote: He said he thinks the style of play is very attractive; have you ever heard anyone call Flash's style attractive? I haven't, because it's totally fucking boring.
You can't really think this, can you? I can understand it from a 7-post noobie but an ~8700 post forum veteran with a KT icon? What the fuck? ----
Flash is easily the most dynamic and interesting terran player to watch. He varies his builds almost every game, and has an absolutely ridiculous win-rate doing it. He wins using every strategy you can possibly think of to win with, and a lot you can't. He'll bunker rush a 12 nexus after scouting it late, he'll use dropships and utterly embarrass Best in his strongest matchup on his favorite map; TvZ he has unorthodox infantry timings vs zerg to deny their third that require impeccable micro vs lings and mutas to not get raped (and thus few other terran players really even attempt -- and honestly he occasionally shouldn't, since it occasionally loses him an OSL finals), and don't even get me started on how his marines often seem to be invincible to lurkers; his TvT at his worst involves throwing away countless units and still making a game of it with impeccable macro, and at his best is a fucking vice closing on your throat one expansion at a time. His defense is incredible, his attacks are at insane timings, his control is often so astonishingly good that it's ridiculous. Any player who is capable of beating him is a testament to countless hours of hard work, and these days it's hard to call most of flash's rare losses anything but flukes.
And I'm not even a flash fanboy: you have to give credit where it's due. He's hands down the most skilled terran to ever play the game and he's goddamn impressive to watch. If anyone thinks otherwise, they're not a fan of starcraft, end of discussion.
LOLOLOL, you are actually preaching to the choir here. XD I totally didn't expect anyone to fall for my retarded post. :D
On January 13 2011 23:34 mnesthes wrote: I read a first few lines of your post and I must say... Not enough skill in detecting sarcasm.
Everyone who says flash's play style is boring, are they all sarcastic too?
I took the opportunity presented to respond to the annoyingly persistent idea that the most dynamic terran player of all time is boring to watch. The sarcasm only works because there are people who truly think something so utterly ridiculous. No one who is a fan of starcraft would say something like that.
That said, I do understand that it is repetitious to see one or two players consistently dominating everyone else, but since when is losing in an utterly dominated fashion the fault of the winner? It would be good for all of broodwar if the other players stepped up their games and made it more competitive. This brings us full circle to why people are excited about stork doing well and why we started talking about flash in the first place.
edit: Thanks for clarifying, holgerius, Poe's Law and all that.
On January 13 2011 23:34 mnesthes wrote: I read a first few lines of your post and I must say... Not enough skill in detecting sarcasm.
Everyone who says flash's play style is boring, are they all sarcastic too?
I took the opportunity presented to respond to the annoyingly persistent idea that the most dynamic terran player of all time is boring to watch. The sarcasm only works because there are people who truly think something so utterly ridiculous. No one who is a fan of starcraft would say something like that.
That said, I do understand that it is repetitious to see one or two players consistently dominating everyone else. Since when is losing in an utterly dominated fashion the fault of the winner? It would be good for all of broodwar if the other players stepped up their games and made it more competitive. This brings us full circle to why people are excited about stork doing well and why we started talking about flash in the first place.
No, certainly they are not, but surely you must haven't noticed that Holg is probably the most openly ... supportive to Flash. tbh I can't even think of anyone with a KT tag that doesn't have something for Flash.
On January 13 2011 22:38 gk_ender wrote: its the size of the map, if you watch the game youll see bisu dodging the obs path with his dt. That would normally allow or the dt timing to catch stork off guard, because with an observer on the other corner of the map (longest possible distance) bisu could do a ton of damage, the key to this game is that stork both noticed a dt with his dragoon and that he counted the goons guarding bisu's base, and thus built a second obs and made a wall with his units instead of immediately getting a shuttle and reaver. At that point bisu needed to buy time because storks build (since it wasnt fast tech) had him at 4 gates to 2 (and actually 3 to 1) at one point, so he moved the shuttle out hoping to get some time. What then happened was stork saw the shuttle move out and contrary to popular belief was trying to catch the shuttle (watch where his goons go) not go all in or timing attack and secure his win, when the shuttle wasnt there (bisu moves it because he sees that stork saw his shuttle because of goon movement) he realizes his shuttle either a, went the long way around to slip past goons or b, is ridiculously out of position dodging his goons, both of which tell him that the time to attack is now. Stork was not really aggressive he just played out his build order advantage correctly, before bisu had the gates to match stork.
Sorry, but must disagree.
1. There was no DT timing. Because he had no scouting info for the early game given the BO disadvantage(pylon before Core vs Bisu's Core before pylon). Stork went with perhaps the safest PvP BO that perhaps ever existed. 2-gate obs basically prevent any cheese. But also inherently disadvantageous against quick expansion. Stork did not need to see the DT nor count Bisu's goons. It was his BO that stopped the DTs.
2. Bisu's DT-Expansion is a normal PvP build. It's also an economic build. Not cheese. DTs give you map control and cannons prevent quick counter/opposing DTs. Observers does not counter dt-expansion. Especially not in cross position. Bisu had earlier expansion, better tech tree, and all he needed to do was play standard to maintain a healthy advantage.
3. Bisu never needed to "buy time". He just needed to stop freaking make every tech imaginable before adding gateways. For christ sakes Bisu was upgrading +1, storm, two templars, shuttle, observers, etc. that his goon range didn't even finish when Stork arrived. Whatever each player opened, you don't have less than half the opponent's dragoon count when he reaches your base in cross positions WITH EARLIER EXPANSION. Think about how greedy you have to be for that to happen.
Stork never had the BO advantage. He had the "Bisu played like it was 15-minutes no attack" advantage.
- You played a beautiful match. ▲After our openings I thought it was my reavers against his HT, but I saw with my obs that he only built 2 HT, so he must have used his gas for something else. Normally reaver goon combo would not necessarily work against his build, but after seeing this situation I attacked decisively and it worked perfectly.
Edit2: The Flash fan rage in this thread is hilarious.
On January 14 2011 00:11 purpose wrote: I havent been able to stay awake for 1 entire flash game....ever!
He started 09-10 Proleague with a 1 base 2-rax timing attack that ended up killing 90% of zergs instantly. How do you fall asleep for a 10 minute game?
Only thing that can make up for this is if Stork smashes JD in MSL finals, and Fantasy smashes Stork in OSL finals. So sad watching my 2nd fav Protoss eliminate my favorite
Iirc, the bracket for the Ro8 is based on Kespa rank. The highest ranked player plays the lowest ranked, and so forth. So we'll have to wait to find out how the bracket will look like.
Bah.. IT HURTS SO MUCH. Fucking Stork in Ro16.. give me a break. Alas, that is Bisu's destiny, always falling behind to his nemesis. This time he broke out of his Slump and kicked ass in his "neo-nemesis" group H just to be stopped by good old Storky.. Man, sigh. The End.
Meh, what a disappointing day. Hydra vs Classic was the only good game. If Stork doesn't make the finals I will be pretty disappointed. But if he does, it's all good. Hopefully Bisu will do well in WL and win OSL next season.
Really impressed with Stork's shape as of late. Finally taking a game from JD in WLs to secure his team's victory. Taking down Bisu 2-0, and being in the OSL Ro4.
On January 13 2011 21:15 arbiter_md wrote: When is KT vs Khan winners league game? We might have a new bonjwa here. Well, a starting point I mean.
God, it's ridiculous how much people are overhyping Stork lately. Stork is nowhere close to being a bonjwa. He could get dual golds this season and he still wouldn't be close to being bonjwa. When he can consistently do well in proleague and starleagues over several seasons, including consistently beating the other top players in Bo5s, then maybe he'll be bonjwa material. Beating Bisu in a Bo3 and beating JD in proleague, and making it to the Ro4/Ro8 of the OSL/MSL doesn't make you a rising bonjwa.
How to become bonjwa with protoss? Proven only Terran can, Zerg are just part timers like savior and jaedong. This is the reason everyone cheer stork.
Savior was the one who was called that first, an etalon if you will, calling him a part-timer is a bit odd.
On January 14 2011 07:29 Lightwip wrote: Hopefully Bisu will do well in WL and win OSL next season.
TBH I'd rather he won another MSL. If he wins an OSL sure it'll add some more credibility to his overall resume but it's way too long since his run of titles for it to put him towards being a bonjwa or anything. Meanwhile if he wins another MSL he'll be the only player to ever win four, which will have its own cache.
It was rather painful to catch Stork vs Bisu for me. I was actually praying for Bisu when Stork moves out with his Goon/Zealots with 2 reavers army into Bisu's natural. It was like "Bisu, please don't lose, come on!" But then Bisu lost. I wanted Bisu to put Stork down a little because I feel that Stork's dominance as for now will be shortlived as his older performances have shown. But after yesterday's and today's game, I think that Stork have went over his past "confidence" hurtle. Hopefully we'll finally see a new merge of a Protoss bonjwa.
On January 14 2011 11:49 Xiphos wrote: It was rather painful to catch Stork vs Bisu for me. I was actually praying for Bisu when Stork moves out with his Goon/Zealots with 2 reavers army into Bisu's natural. It was like "Bisu, please don't lose, come on!" But then Bisu lost. I wanted Bisu to put Stork down a little because I feel that Stork's dominance as for now will be shortlived as his older performances have shown. But after yesterday's and today's game, I think that Stork have went over his past "confidence" hurtle. Hopefully we'll finally see a new merge of a Protoss bonjwa.
Confidence hurdle? It's more like Stork was too arrogant and didn't take his finals opponents seriously in the seasons he won silver. He's never had a problem with confidence.
On January 14 2011 11:49 Xiphos wrote: It was rather painful to catch Stork vs Bisu for me. I was actually praying for Bisu when Stork moves out with his Goon/Zealots with 2 reavers army into Bisu's natural. It was like "Bisu, please don't lose, come on!" But then Bisu lost. I wanted Bisu to put Stork down a little because I feel that Stork's dominance as for now will be shortlived as his older performances have shown. But after yesterday's and today's game, I think that Stork have went over his past "confidence" hurtle. Hopefully we'll finally see a new merge of a Protoss bonjwa.
Confidence hurdle? It's more like Stork was too arrogant and didn't take his finals opponents seriously in the seasons he won silver. He's never had a problem with confidence.
What could be more serious than facing Bisu, Jaedong, or Flash ( who are responsible for 95% of his silvers, be it Starleague or WCG) in a final? According to BW statistics, well, nothing. Nothing is more serious.
Stork's problem was psychological. The nervousness and tension of playing in a final, coupled with the subsequent branding of the Silver Surfer nickname (i.e., "The choke artist, the guy who will always lose when it matters"), is what crippled him. Some people simply have a very hard time dealing with pressure, and Storku is one of them.
I really do hope he manages to shrug it off and seize the opportunity, 'cause I doubt it'll present itself so easily next time (what with Flash being out of both leagues and Jaedong out of the OSL).
Hydra hardly won his game. In fact once he lost his Hive and Defiler tech he was behind. Good Terran (Sea, Midas, Flash) would win that game. Hydra play is quite impressive but I don't give him much chance to finish in top 3.
On January 14 2011 11:49 Xiphos wrote: It was rather painful to catch Stork vs Bisu for me. I was actually praying for Bisu when Stork moves out with his Goon/Zealots with 2 reavers army into Bisu's natural. It was like "Bisu, please don't lose, come on!" But then Bisu lost. I wanted Bisu to put Stork down a little because I feel that Stork's dominance as for now will be shortlived as his older performances have shown. But after yesterday's and today's game, I think that Stork have went over his past "confidence" hurtle. Hopefully we'll finally see a new merge of a Protoss bonjwa.
Confidence hurdle? It's more like Stork was too arrogant and didn't take his finals opponents seriously in the seasons he won silver. He's never had a problem with confidence.
What could be more serious than facing Bisu, Jaedong, or Flash ( who are responsible for 95% of his silvers, be it Starleague or WCG) in a final? According to BW statistics, well, nothing. Nothing is more serious.
Stork's problem was psychological. The nervousness and tension of playing in a final, coupled with the subsequent branding of the Silver Surfer nickname (i.e., "The choke artist, the guy who will always lose when it matters"), is what crippled him. Some people simply have a very hard time dealing with pressure, and Storku is one of them.
I really do hope he manages to shrug it off and seize the opportunity, 'cause I doubt it'll present itself so easily next time (what with Flash being out of both leagues and Jaedong out of the OSL).
Since the Incruit OSL, Stork's problem was more about not devoting enough to the game. He's basically the only progamer who talks about manga, anime, video games not named SC, etc. in his interviews. He also has a girlfriend. Basically he cares about life outside the game. Stork for a long time sort of just half-assed it. Basically he saw that other players have caught up, and he had no drive to push himself above the fray.
But apparently, for some inexplicable reason, Stork has found new motivation. It seemed to have been his fans, who have been pretty ridiculous lately. Regardless, Stork is actually practicing more, which has allowed him to play almost flawlessly. Kind of Flash-like in a way, by always making the right decisions. From his recent games, he truly is flawless commander.
On January 14 2011 11:49 Xiphos wrote: It was rather painful to catch Stork vs Bisu for me. I was actually praying for Bisu when Stork moves out with his Goon/Zealots with 2 reavers army into Bisu's natural. It was like "Bisu, please don't lose, come on!" But then Bisu lost. I wanted Bisu to put Stork down a little because I feel that Stork's dominance as for now will be shortlived as his older performances have shown. But after yesterday's and today's game, I think that Stork have went over his past "confidence" hurtle. Hopefully we'll finally see a new merge of a Protoss bonjwa.
Confidence hurdle? It's more like Stork was too arrogant and didn't take his finals opponents seriously in the seasons he won silver. He's never had a problem with confidence.
What could be more serious than facing Bisu, Jaedong, or Flash ( who are responsible for 95% of his silvers, be it Starleague or WCG) in a final? According to BW statistics, well, nothing. Nothing is more serious.
Stork's problem was psychological. The nervousness and tension of playing in a final, coupled with the subsequent branding of the Silver Surfer nickname (i.e., "The choke artist, the guy who will always lose when it matters"), is what crippled him. Some people simply have a very hard time dealing with pressure, and Storku is one of them.
I really do hope he manages to shrug it off and seize the opportunity, 'cause I doubt it'll present itself so easily next time (what with Flash being out of both leagues and Jaedong out of the OSL).
Since the Incruit OSL, Stork's problem was more about not devoting enough to the game. He's basically the only progamer who talks about manga, anime, video games not named SC, etc. in his interviews. He also has a girlfriend. Basically he cares about life outside the game. Stork for a long time sort of just half-assed it. Basically he saw that other players have caught up, and he had no drive to push himself above the fray.
But apparently, for some inexplicable reason, Stork has found new motivation. It seemed to have been his fans, who have been pretty ridiculous lately. Regardless, Stork is actually practicing more, which has allowed him to play almost flawlessly. Kind of Flash-like in a way, by always making the right decisions. From his recent games, he truly is flawless commander.
Yes, in the past Stork just had too many distractions. His attention was never fully on practicing. Maybe JD/Flash's exit from the OSL made him realise that this is his great chance to grab the golds he should have won earlier in his career.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jmcbv.png)
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Hydra « Benzene » 
Classic
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