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[MSL] Grand Final - Page 149

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Prev 1 147 148 149 150 151 157 Next
Emon_
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
3925 Posts
May 29 2010 20:31 GMT
#2961
This reminds me of the stomping JD got from Flash in the Ro8 2009 EVER OSL.
"I know that human beings and fish can coexist peacefully" -GWB ||
AppleTart
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1261 Posts
May 29 2010 20:37 GMT
#2962
On May 30 2010 05:28 tree.hugger wrote:
I was rooting for Flash this finals, but every time he wins, I find myself regretting it because his fanboys are so damn annoying. This bonjwa nonsense has gotten really stupid, really fast.

You'll know it when you see it, and Flash isn't it... yet.


This guy must have special eyes
always tired -_-
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
May 29 2010 20:39 GMT
#2963
On May 30 2010 05:37 AppleTart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 05:28 tree.hugger wrote:
I was rooting for Flash this finals, but every time he wins, I find myself regretting it because his fanboys are so damn annoying. This bonjwa nonsense has gotten really stupid, really fast.

You'll know it when you see it, and Flash isn't it... yet.


This guy must have special eyes

Actually, everyone has eyes. His are just open, unlike many blind fanboys'.
God Bless
AppleTart
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1261 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 20:42:31
May 29 2010 20:40 GMT
#2964
On May 30 2010 05:39 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 05:37 AppleTart wrote:
On May 30 2010 05:28 tree.hugger wrote:
I was rooting for Flash this finals, but every time he wins, I find myself regretting it because his fanboys are so damn annoying. This bonjwa nonsense has gotten really stupid, really fast.

You'll know it when you see it, and Flash isn't it... yet.


This guy must have special eyes

Actually, everyone has eyes. His are just open, unlike many blind fanboys'.


I guess all of the ex-progamer commentators who pretty much played sc and watch/commentate sc for a living are blind too
always tired -_-
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
May 29 2010 20:40 GMT
#2965
Yeah, what's this Bonjwa crap, Flash is way better than those fools.
Remember Violet.
Slow Motion
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6960 Posts
May 29 2010 20:44 GMT
#2966
If Flash and Bisu want to find out what it feels like to be NaDa they should combine their medals.
dl2agon
Profile Joined June 2009
United States473 Posts
May 29 2010 20:44 GMT
#2967
Clearly what happened was Flash was holding back last week against Effort so he could use his super secret strats vs JD. Coulda had both titles, but nope.
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 20:48:12
May 29 2010 20:48 GMT
#2968
On May 30 2010 05:40 AppleTart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 05:39 Roffles wrote:
On May 30 2010 05:37 AppleTart wrote:
On May 30 2010 05:28 tree.hugger wrote:
I was rooting for Flash this finals, but every time he wins, I find myself regretting it because his fanboys are so damn annoying. This bonjwa nonsense has gotten really stupid, really fast.

You'll know it when you see it, and Flash isn't it... yet.


This guy must have special eyes

Actually, everyone has eyes. His are just open, unlike many blind fanboys'.


I guess all of the ex-progamer commentators who pretty much played sc and watch/commentate sc for a living are blind too

Big whoopdeedoo, he plays like complete shit in the OSL Finals, comes back and wins MSL Finals and everyone's ready to crown his ass as the greatest of all time? Fuck no, he's got a long way to go. He's good. Don't get me wrong. He's great at the game, but until he grabs a few more titles under his belt, he can't seriously be considered the greatest of all time.
God Bless
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
May 29 2010 20:49 GMT
#2969
if lots of people are arguing about whether someone is a bonjwa, he's not a bonjwa. its more of a psychological thing than a statistical thing. i don't think anyone disputed oov or savior's "bonjwaness." the fact that so many kids wouldn't call Flash bonjwa means he isn't one. you need consensus.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
PanzerDragoon
Profile Joined March 2010
United States822 Posts
May 29 2010 20:52 GMT
#2970
On May 30 2010 05:15 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 04:51 PanzerDragoon wrote:
On May 30 2010 04:48 Roffles wrote:
On May 30 2010 04:41 SolaX wrote:
On May 30 2010 04:40 iloahz wrote:
I refuse to call flash bonjwa. It's an insult to flash if his godlike play is downplayed to something as lowly as "bonjwa". Flash is dominating more than anyone ever before.



Wrong, there were clearly more dominating players in the past.

Nah, I wouldn't say they were more dominant. Players like Oov and Mr. Ma back in the days faced great competition. I just don't think that players back then were as good as they are now. There really weren't other really really good players back in the days that could challenge them on a consistent basis. Oov and Savior were pretty much the clear cut favorite in EVERY game. What makes Flash's case different is that you can't legitimately say he's the clear cut favorite in EVERY game. Half the people thought Jaedong would win, just attesting to how good Jaedong is as well.

The level of competition today is simply too great. Other players are absolutely amazing too. It's just that Flash is arguably the best of the best today. But that doesn't mean he's clear cut favorite over everyone.

So your argument is...


players today are better
Flash has an absolutely insane win percentage against these better players


therefore


Flash isn't as dominant?


Does not compute

My argument is: Flash isn't the clear cut favorite in every single game. I've stated this explicitly NUMEROUS times. I don't get why you can't grasp this concept.

Anyone with a brain knows by the numbers hes a clearcut favorite in every game.
PanzerDragoon
Profile Joined March 2010
United States822 Posts
May 29 2010 20:53 GMT
#2971
On May 30 2010 05:49 Hot_Bid wrote:
if lots of people are arguing about whether someone is a bonjwa, he's not a bonjwa. its more of a psychological thing than a statistical thing. i don't think anyone disputed oov or savior's "bonjwaness." the fact that so many kids wouldn't call Flash bonjwa means he isn't one. you need consensus.

the only reason there isn't a consensus is because they want to keep elevating the requirements so that no one ever is "as good" as their sacred Nada or Savior.

SkytoM
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Austria1137 Posts
May 29 2010 20:53 GMT
#2972
A bonjwa is an intellegent guy. Flash isn't. How could you lose that OSL Final?
Bisu... ;-(
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 20:57:28
May 29 2010 20:55 GMT
#2973
On May 30 2010 05:52 PanzerDragoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 05:15 Roffles wrote:
On May 30 2010 04:51 PanzerDragoon wrote:
On May 30 2010 04:48 Roffles wrote:
On May 30 2010 04:41 SolaX wrote:
On May 30 2010 04:40 iloahz wrote:
I refuse to call flash bonjwa. It's an insult to flash if his godlike play is downplayed to something as lowly as "bonjwa". Flash is dominating more than anyone ever before.



Wrong, there were clearly more dominating players in the past.

Nah, I wouldn't say they were more dominant. Players like Oov and Mr. Ma back in the days faced great competition. I just don't think that players back then were as good as they are now. There really weren't other really really good players back in the days that could challenge them on a consistent basis. Oov and Savior were pretty much the clear cut favorite in EVERY game. What makes Flash's case different is that you can't legitimately say he's the clear cut favorite in EVERY game. Half the people thought Jaedong would win, just attesting to how good Jaedong is as well.

The level of competition today is simply too great. Other players are absolutely amazing too. It's just that Flash is arguably the best of the best today. But that doesn't mean he's clear cut favorite over everyone.

So your argument is...


players today are better
Flash has an absolutely insane win percentage against these better players


therefore


Flash isn't as dominant?


Does not compute

My argument is: Flash isn't the clear cut favorite in every single game. I've stated this explicitly NUMEROUS times. I don't get why you can't grasp this concept.

Anyone with a brain knows by the numbers hes a clearcut favorite in every game.

So you're gonna discount the 14 progamers who believed that Jaedong would win the MSL Finals right? 10 voted for Flash, 14 for Jaedong. Okay, you do that. There are no requirements for being a bonjwa, the only one is that of being the favored player in every matchup. The fact that 14 out of 24 voted for Jaedong tells you that he's not at that level yet.
God Bless
NurseArial
Profile Joined March 2010
Belarus109 Posts
May 29 2010 20:58 GMT
#2974
On May 30 2010 05:53 SkytoM wrote:
A bonjwa is an intellegent guy. Flash isn't. How could you lose that OSL Final?

If you think Flash isn't an intelligent player you should probably stop commenting on progaming in general. Flash has gotten to where he is because of his brilliance as a strategist and his unparalleled ability to adapt. He doesn't do the smartest thing 100% of the time, but I've yet to see a game sense and understanding on his level.
Amnesia
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3818 Posts
May 29 2010 20:58 GMT
#2975
On May 30 2010 05:49 Hot_Bid wrote:
if lots of people are arguing about whether someone is a bonjwa, he's not a bonjwa. its more of a psychological thing than a statistical thing. i don't think anyone disputed oov or savior's "bonjwaness." the fact that so many kids wouldn't call Flash bonjwa means he isn't one. you need consensus.

well said HB
Emon_
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
3925 Posts
May 29 2010 20:59 GMT
#2976
On May 30 2010 05:49 Hot_Bid wrote:
if lots of people are arguing about whether someone is a bonjwa, he's not a bonjwa. its more of a psychological thing than a statistical thing. i don't think anyone disputed oov or savior's "bonjwaness." the fact that so many kids wouldn't call Flash bonjwa means he isn't one. you need consensus.
If Flash had gotten two gold medals in dominating fashion, he would have been the next bonjwa
"I know that human beings and fish can coexist peacefully" -GWB ||
okum
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France5779 Posts
May 29 2010 21:00 GMT
#2977
On May 30 2010 05:48 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 05:40 AppleTart wrote:
On May 30 2010 05:39 Roffles wrote:
On May 30 2010 05:37 AppleTart wrote:
On May 30 2010 05:28 tree.hugger wrote:
I was rooting for Flash this finals, but every time he wins, I find myself regretting it because his fanboys are so damn annoying. This bonjwa nonsense has gotten really stupid, really fast.

You'll know it when you see it, and Flash isn't it... yet.


This guy must have special eyes

Actually, everyone has eyes. His are just open, unlike many blind fanboys'.


I guess all of the ex-progamer commentators who pretty much played sc and watch/commentate sc for a living are blind too

Big whoopdeedoo, he plays like complete shit in the OSL Finals, comes back and wins MSL Finals and everyone's ready to crown his ass as the greatest of all time? Fuck no, he's got a long way to go. He's good. Don't get me wrong. He's great at the game, but until he grabs a few more titles under his belt, he can't seriously be considered the greatest of all time.

Oh, cut the "plays like complete shit" crap please. The OSL finals went 2-3 with two awesome games and three screwups on Flash's part. And that was the first time Flash screwed up like that since god damn September. It takes some serious antifan tunnel-o-vision to focus so much on a single day's events, if you look at how much Flash has accomplished recently.

That said, Flash isn't the "greatest player of all time" in the sense of winning most medals (yet). That's objectively true. But there's not much dispute that he's the best player of all time as in "plays the game the best of anyone ever".
Flash fan before it was cool | Coiner of "jangbang"
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 21:01:37
May 29 2010 21:00 GMT
#2978
On May 30 2010 05:59 Emon_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 05:49 Hot_Bid wrote:
if lots of people are arguing about whether someone is a bonjwa, he's not a bonjwa. its more of a psychological thing than a statistical thing. i don't think anyone disputed oov or savior's "bonjwaness." the fact that so many kids wouldn't call Flash bonjwa means he isn't one. you need consensus.
If Flash had gotten two gold medals in dominating fashion, he would have been the next bonjwa

But he didn't, so why are people even arguing that he is?
God Bless
sung_moon
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10110 Posts
May 29 2010 21:01 GMT
#2979
On May 30 2010 05:53 PanzerDragoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 05:49 Hot_Bid wrote:
if lots of people are arguing about whether someone is a bonjwa, he's not a bonjwa. its more of a psychological thing than a statistical thing. i don't think anyone disputed oov or savior's "bonjwaness." the fact that so many kids wouldn't call Flash bonjwa means he isn't one. you need consensus.

the only reason there isn't a consensus is because they want to keep elevating the requirements so that no one ever is "as good" as their sacred Nada or Savior.



are u fucking serious? bonjwa gets thrown around too loosely. being bonjwa means without a shadow of a doubt u are teh favorite. and when i mean favorite like 99.99999 chance of winning favorite. oov and savior in their times were just that

and whos "they"?
Forever Young
AppleTart
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1261 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 21:03:59
May 29 2010 21:01 GMT
#2980
On May 30 2010 05:49 Hot_Bid wrote:
if lots of people are arguing about whether someone is a bonjwa, he's not a bonjwa. its more of a psychological thing than a statistical thing. i don't think anyone disputed oov or savior's "bonjwaness." the fact that so many kids wouldn't call Flash bonjwa means he isn't one. you need consensus.


I do agree with you, but I think the opinion of the masses can sometimes be moot if people more knowledgeable about the game say otherwise. Its sort of like how the general population may usually think one thing or another, but the reality lies within the minds of a few. I mean people will always dispute one way or another, but people in higher places of the sc world have already crowned Flash to be greater than any Bonjwa.
I think the Bonjwa debate always stemmed from the fact that JD was always there. I mean for the past year, aside from JD there was no one in anyone's minds that would take out Flash. I mean yes Flash lost a game here and there but JD was the only player when pitted against Flash, we would be like oh hmmm actually maybe Flash might not win. If it were anyone else we would just be like LOLOLLOL flash rape incoming or something. Although Effort did take out Flash last week, the fact that Flash convincingly 3-0 the Dong, which was the only player even in contention with Flash for Bonjwaness and the master and undeniably the beast at BO5. Flash and Jaedong both said before that whoever wins will be the best player. Although later in the interview Flash did say that it was just an interview, I think it was more manners than truth.
always tired -_-
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