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On February 15 2010 09:29 Majk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 08:27 zerglingsfolife wrote:
Everyone(foreigners) who plays Idra knows that they are slightly worse, so they take a lot of gambles/abusive risks to try to get ahead. Idra usually is able to deflect them and win but when every foreigner you play does an abusive or "strategic" build of course you are going to lose a few games here and there. Then people say LOL Idra keeps losing to Foreigners even though he practices in Korea... No shit, but he also wins a lot more than he loses.
Because Idra lost game 2 on a misclick, he basically had to win 3 out of 4 games against an extremely strong Toss player, who did very abusive PvT builds in every game. He lost, props to Nony. Nony played intelligently and played to win like he should have.
I don't really understand the people saying Idra is bad? Hmm... I think you have missed the fact that Nony reacted to what Idra did in game 3,4 & 5. And yeah, it's real unfortunate that Idra canceled the CC in game 2 cause now Idra fanboys tries to take away Nony win with "If it wasn't for that miss-click..." even though Nony won in game 5 countering that exact greedy Barracks>CC opening. If Idra was so sure of being of out-macro Nony, then why did he try to cut corners? I'm really sick of posts in this thread trying to take away the wins from Players, that is in my mind BM... Even if you guys think "he would have won that if wasn't for X or Y" "He's a better overall player" etc... You don't know that! Keep thoughts like that for yourself until they are proven right.
Um, I think you quoted the wrong person? I don't really see how what I said even applies to your response? My post was geared towards the idiots who say IdrA is a terrible person and should have a 100% win rate/Deflect every abusive build because he is in Korea. I'm not an IdrA fanboy. Nony is an amazing player that prepared some abusive builds for IdrA and performed well. How did I try take away anything from what NonY did? I said props to him winning and for playing smart!
I think Idra tried to cut corners with the 1 rax FE because he wanted to have a build that would perform relatively well against 12 nexus, which is common for Protoss on FS.
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Nothing better than 'strategic' players taking it to the best macro-bots the foreigner community has to offer. What a great day.
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On February 15 2010 09:22 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 09:19 bEsT[Alive] wrote:
Today NonY was the better player. I've read statements to this effect a lot today, but let's be honest about the situation. Today Nony won. Today, idra canceled a CC.
Would you like to make some excuses for Idra on why his Siege Expand got broken, or why he got absolutely steamrolled by a brilliant reactive proxy gate strategy in game 5?
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Man this is actually making things much more exciting !
I doubt mondi or sen would have had a good chance vs idra...
but either mondi vs jf or sen vs nony or reverse it all.. makes up for an amazing final..
no matter how the semis go..
its amazing =)
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On February 15 2010 08:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 08:17 OneOther wrote:On February 15 2010 08:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 15 2010 08:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote:On February 15 2010 08:08 SuperArc wrote:
People laughing at Idra for losing even though he's practicing with Koreans need to look at the bigger picture.
Idra lost BECAUSE he's training with Koreans. No Korean would expect proxy gates against a rax expand, because its unimaginable. (all-ins are so rare apart from WL). I suggest you hide that CJ tag in the corner before you post such hilarious things. Idra's just soooo good that he's too good and thus falls for "foreigner" tricks. That's the power of denial. Honestly the idea that good players lose to bad players sometimes because they are bad is totally valid. when you are used to practicing with players who always do the most efficient/rational thing you might not scout something like a critical hidden expansion because "no one would be stupid enough to expand here because it is impossible to defend, etc." Nope, a better player should have a superior understanding of the game and a quicker sense. Please don't take offense to this but I just don't think you have enough grasp of Starcraft the game itself to be making arguments like that. If IdrA truly believes he outclasses NonY in every mechanical aspect then he should never do a build like CC before gas. Nor should he get raped on Outsider the way he did. Which is exactly why I'm saying NonY prepared better and deserved to win? IdrA should not have done such greedy builds, I agree completely. I think people are assuming I'm an angry IdrA fanboy but I am not angry. I just think it's ridiculous to think NonY is a better straight-up player than IdrA when IdrA showed that wasn't the case not too long ago and someone always does that.
Hi DoctorH.
I just went through the last 20ish pages of this thread (swiftly) and the reason that people started getting angry is that you are the one that started the fire. You said "The funny thing is idiots will think this makes nony better". Now.. better doesn't mean just mechanics. So what you said is rather insulting, and sounded bad.
I know you didn't mean it to sound like that but that's why arguments fired up. Reading it all you will clearly see how your position looks very biased at first.
Now, for my two cents:
First game: probably best counter to an expo into dt as can be. Well played and executed, Nony kinda risked it by going dt drop blindly (he didn't even see the two facts).
Second game: I did actually lol (irl) when I saw the cancel, and really laughed when I saw the gg/quit. I wasn't expecting that, but it seems that Idra was way too confident in his abilities. Fatal mistake. His chances of winning that were slim, my guess is somewhere under 25%, but still it was a smug thing to do. I'm glad it came back to bite him in the ass.
And saying that he would have won that game if he hadn't canceled is stupid. Nony saw the cc as soon as it was placed, he would have taken measures against it. Reaver drop (as commentators suggested) would have been pretty interesting. I'm not saying he would have won for sure because of early scout, but in NO WAY would Idra be 'guaranteed to win' that game. In fact, I think Nony had better chances there. (Like 60%-40%?)
Third game: Awesome display of micro. Nony did great harass and great reaver shots. Idra just took it like a C- terran, getting 3 tanks in red with one reaver shot. This from the guy with supposedly the best micro outside Korea? Poor game on Idra's part if you ask me.
Fourth game: I think Nony screwed up by attacking too early. His two proxy gates only built what? One unit each? Maybe just a bit later would have been better, but I guess we'll never know.
Fifth game: Idra goes cc before gas and gets scouted, and you NOOBS are saying Nony CHEESED? REALLY? If you do something like that you are ASKING for the toss to punish you. Nony could have gone a great deal of "cheesy" builds to punish the late tanks. Sure, Idra got unlucky with the diagonal scout but the three gates in the middle were just counter-play. All you whiners going "CHEESE" should stfu and learn to play the goddamn game. It was a perfectly reasonable counter to the terran's build. Was it all-in-ish? Maybe, but with high chances of success. So why the fuck not? The juice was worth the squeeze baby! Love you Nony.
So yeah, as a conclusion, saying that Idra is the overall better player is a bit wrong. He's lacking in mental toughness, he lets his emotions get the best of him, he's overconfident and that cost him a lot (and not just in theory, he practically lost $9500 right here). His micro is not out-of-this-world (at least not in TvP), and while his mechanics are above-par, REALLY good players like Flash would not lose a bo5 like this. Your strong points only matter if you can use them. If you're a mechanics God like Flash, then you make sure you are also able to get to the point where you can show that off. I would personally love seeing games like these 5 ALL THE TIME. Sure, macro is fun, but straight-up macro is boring. Let games be exciting from the start, and if it gets to macro, at least it will be worth the watch.
I love you TL for making it possible for me to watch this series. And Nony, if I were you I'd be rooting for Sen to take down Mondi in the next round. 
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On February 15 2010 09:44 BlackYoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 09:22 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On February 15 2010 09:19 bEsT[Alive] wrote:
Today NonY was the better player. I've read statements to this effect a lot today, but let's be honest about the situation. Today Nony won. Today, idra canceled a CC. Would you like to make some excuses for Idra on why his Siege Expand got broken, or why he got absolutely steamrolled by a brilliant reactive proxy gate strategy in game 5?
I made my statements. What you choose to extrapolate from them rather than simply take them as they are is your own problem.
Nony won. Idra canceled a CC. These are simply facts about today's 3-2 victory. I have little rooting interest in either and with yesterday's matches done, these 2 are my favorite foreigners. I have no issue with Nony advancing or winning. I take issue with the amount people are willing to look at simply the results rather than the games.
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About the CC-ESC-GG: I think it's quite possible that Idra was psychologically distressed after that game, and then to get RAMP BROKEN on the very next game in a standard siege-expand - what he was most comfortable with - was probably crippling psychologically. Add to that the fact that the one game he did win after the first ended up with Nony disconnecting and his mind was probably all a mess. However, if you ask me there was no real way he could've won the final game with that build-order. He simply got out-BO'd and the only way I could see his results from earlier affecting this was if they taught him to play in a safer manner. There's little doubt in my mind that Idra COULD'VE taken this series if he played the right build orders and didn't cancel that CC. But he did and whether that's bad luck/bad play, we'll just never know, just like we'll never know whether Flash would've won against Jaedong if the power didn't go out.
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Sanya12364 Posts
Definitely wasn't the macro orient late game that everyone expected. No HTs no science vessels. Not a single goliath. Did anyone build any late game tech buildings? A lot of early game strategy and not a lot of epic battles.
The two bad ones were game 2 and game 4. I think it's fine to win by good strategy. Especially in game 5 where Idra went greedy and got punished for it.
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I come online just missing the ro8 and i see the results and go wow nony won. Sweet! then i get in this thread expecting LOL IDRA GOT BEAT, OMG LOL WHY DID NONY WIN, OH WELL IDRA SUX! NONY BONJWA! Instead i see what happens in every favorite to win player vs another favorite to win player and its just a ragefestive trolling thread and this makes me wonder.
When did Idra get fanboys ? O.o
Other than that, wooo Nony!
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On February 15 2010 08:34 Empyrean wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 08:31 Glaucus wrote:
No. I said finals is going to be disappointed because all the really skilled players are gone. Ret and Idra are really skilled, excluding Rets ZvZ. Mondragon and Nony are just skilled. To be fair, Ret decided to play ZvZ on his own accord. He had the option to choose TvZ a week or so in advance so Sen would know about it, but he decided to choose his ZvZ instead. ...I think. Oh well. I think going into the tournament, I would have put Ret, Idra, Nony and White-Ra as the favorites. I'm personally very excited about the semi-final draw.
the guy above (bolded) is an idiot. His whole statement is dumb. I mean, obviously, if Ret was good enough he would have beaten Sen. I'm not taking anything away from Ret, he's a great player, its just that the series didn't work out in his favor. I don't see how any one can say that there aren't any good players left, just because ppl beat prolly their more favored players.
Look at it logically.. If someone beats Ret, who is known to be good, doesnt that make the player that beat him equally as good? I mean, they were all BO5's, its not like it was a 1 game mistake and they lost to some cheese.. All the TSL matches were BO5, plenty of chances to do a cheese build if u want and to play straight up and there were a few series' like that too.
"Excluding Rets ZvZ".. My friend mentioned that too, oh, too bad Ret keeps playing Z's, I bet he must be sick of ZvZ.... well, on the contrary! The guys been practicing ZvZ for like the last 2 months while he's been in Korea, plus he's prolly been practicing it because he knew that he was going to face some Z's in TSL... I consider that extra preparation for the MU. It woulda been worse if he'd been practicing ZvZ all this time and then to be pitted against Idra really soon, negating all that practice he had.
Like Empryean mentioned, it was totally Rets decision to take ZvZ, because he could have taken TvZ. This isn't Korea and you're not bound to 1 race. He could have chose T then Z, then P, then T and T in his series if he wanted.. No one was stopping him. Thus, making ur argument "Rets gosu 'cept for his ZvZ" retarded.. Let Ret do Ret.. worry about urself and enjoy TSL for what it is.
On topic of the event, i'm pretty excited.
kinda sucks that there are nothing but mirror matchups, until the finals.. PvP and ZvZ then a PvZ but some super talented players and it'll be nice to see any of 'em make it to the finals!
JF v Nony eh?
and mondi v sen?
Would be some super matchups if they were reversed..
but hey, gL players!
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Oh, for fuck sakes.
IdrA canceled the CC on his own. You could argue the pressure got to him and his finger slipped. It's not the first time something like this happened.
It's the same fucking thing when a speed skater catches an edge and trips on the ice. They were the favorite going in. They could have set an Olympic record, but unfortunately they wiped out.
NonY won. IdrA cracked. Those are the facts. Those were the games. Get it? Good. Screw the anti-fans. People are going to hate. Don't let them get to you. The more vocal you get, the more vocal they'll get.
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On February 15 2010 09:38 zerglingsfolife wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 09:29 Majk wrote:On February 15 2010 08:27 zerglingsfolife wrote:
Everyone(foreigners) who plays Idra knows that they are slightly worse, so they take a lot of gambles/abusive risks to try to get ahead. Idra usually is able to deflect them and win but when every foreigner you play does an abusive or "strategic" build of course you are going to lose a few games here and there. Then people say LOL Idra keeps losing to Foreigners even though he practices in Korea... No shit, but he also wins a lot more than he loses.
Because Idra lost game 2 on a misclick, he basically had to win 3 out of 4 games against an extremely strong Toss player, who did very abusive PvT builds in every game. He lost, props to Nony. Nony played intelligently and played to win like he should have.
I don't really understand the people saying Idra is bad? Hmm... I think you have missed the fact that Nony reacted to what Idra did in game 3,4 & 5. And yeah, it's real unfortunate that Idra canceled the CC in game 2 cause now Idra fanboys tries to take away Nony win with "If it wasn't for that miss-click..." even though Nony won in game 5 countering that exact greedy Barracks>CC opening. If Idra was so sure of being of out-macro Nony, then why did he try to cut corners? I'm really sick of posts in this thread trying to take away the wins from Players, that is in my mind BM... Even if you guys think "he would have won that if wasn't for X or Y" "He's a better overall player" etc... You don't know that! Keep thoughts like that for yourself until they are proven right. Um, I think you quoted the wrong person? I don't really see how what I said even applies to your response? My post was geared towards the idiots who say IdrA is a terrible person and should have a 100% win rate/Deflect every abusive build because he is in Korea. I'm not an IdrA fanboy. Nony is an amazing player that prepared some abusive builds for IdrA and performed well. How did I try take away anything from what NonY did? I said props to him winning and for playing smart! I think Idra tried to cut corners with the 1 rax FE because he wanted to have a build that would perform relatively well against 12 nexus, which is common for Protoss on FS.
No, I did not quote wrong, Nony prepared for macro-games, he also prepared for responses if Idra was trying to cut corners like he did.
Everyone(foreigners) who plays Idra knows that they are slightly worse, so they take a lot of gambles/abusive risks to try to get ahead. - You are stating that every other player is worse than Idra.
Because Idra lost game 2 on a misclick, he basically had to win 3 out of 4 games against an extremely strong Toss player, who did very abusive PvT builds in every game. - Again, Nony reacted to Idra trying to cut corners.
Game 1 and Game 4 Nony was trying to get ahead by 12 Nex and Proxygating and ended up loosing.. The other games he reacted to what Idra did and won. Both players were trying abusive builds getting ahead in the early game and Nony won cause he reacted better to what Idra did, not cause he was the only "abusive" player. Game 2, was unfortunate, but I can't believe that some other posters (not you) can say Idra would have won that game seeing what Nony did to that build in game 5....
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I want to hear Idra's thoughts on this series, if that CC cancel was nerves and if it affected the rest of his play.
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white-ra is such a mannered guy
"gg gl in next round"
seriously, mad props to white-ra
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FUCK!!!!!
Predicted every single Ro8 match wrong. FUCK FUCK FUCK!!!!
There goes my 65th place in Liquibet going into the Ro8. I'll be lucky to stay in top 1000.
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Yeah, I was somewhat surprised by that considering he must've been somewhat frustrated that he threw away the fourth game with a cheese that really shouldn't have worked. But White-Ra is always well-mannered and nice, and that's why people like him 
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White-ra is awesome and a great guy!
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On February 15 2010 10:12 Mortality wrote:
FUCK!!!!!
Predicted every single Ro8 match wrong. FUCK FUCK FUCK!!!!
There goes my 65th place in Liquibet going into the Ro8. I'll be lucky to stay in top 1000.
LOLOL
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On February 15 2010 08:53 loupouk wrote:
I just want to complain about idra's lack of professionalism. Quitting game 3 without even trying some kind of all in after that CC mistake was very childish, you can do that in practice game but not in a tournament like that. I don't see any progamer quitting like that, they are always trying their best, even in desperate situation. If idra can't control his nerve he'll never be a champion.
And yes I'm angry because I lost 50$ on this series.
Kingdom trapped a zeal in a 2gate zeal proxi he insta tapped out
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What if Idra took a dive?
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EPT
